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Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: Plynkes on 31 March 2010, 08:17:49 PM

Title: Italians in Libya
Post by: Plynkes on 31 March 2010, 08:17:49 PM
This movie was made about inter-war Italian colonial Libya. Unbelievably I've never seen it:

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/5/163_31_03_10_9_14_04.jpg)

I believe it was funded by Colonel Gaddafi and banned in Italy. Just spotted it on Amazon for about four quid so snapped it up. Supposed to have some good action scenes in it. I'll report back on how good it is. Even if it's rubbish I've hardly wasted much money, and Ollie Reed is almost always worth watching.
Title: Italians in Libya
Post by: commissarmoody on 31 March 2010, 08:19:56 PM
I think I saw that movie when I was like 5, cant really tell you much about it.
Title: Italians in Libya
Post by: traveller on 01 April 2010, 01:33:29 PM
I like that movie, it caused an increase of some 3 kg to the leadpile  :)
Title: Italians in Libya
Post by: carlos marighela on 01 April 2010, 08:52:53 PM
It's a fun flick. The mocked up Fiat 3000 tanks are cleverly done. Alas the Italian army changed to the stepped collar and Wolselyesque sun helmet circa 1935, so the uniforms are different. That said, very few metropiltain units saw much service beyond garrison and prison guard duties so what you really need are the Empress askari figures. Now if Tobi wanted to do something unique might I suggest he tackles a Fiat Tripoli armoured car, wonderful looking piece of kit:

http://www.targheitaliane.it/gallery/sm1.jpg
Title: Italians in Libya
Post by: James Morris on 02 April 2010, 09:24:22 AM
Wow!  Now that's a real armoured car.  When did these see service?
Title: Italians in Libya
Post by: Plynkes on 02 April 2010, 09:35:05 AM
Turret looks like it has come off a Roller, don't it.
Title: Italians in Libya
Post by: Hammers on 02 April 2010, 10:14:41 AM
Today we have released the 28mm Abyssinian Invasion version of our Italian LMG teams. The pack contains two light machinegun teams armed with the Breda30.

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y232/Eaglstone/EMPRESS/AB_LMG_01.jpg)

Please come and say high if you are at Salute. We are on stand TA26. All pre orders for Salute will guarantee we have what you want..



Those Bredas really look ridiculously small and dinky. Nothing wrong with he sculpting, mind! They are quite authentic!
Title: Italians in Libya
Post by: carlos marighela on 02 April 2010, 05:38:42 PM
Wow!  Now that's a real armoured car.  When did these see service?

Came into service in the mid-late 1920's IIRC.  I've seen it alleged that one or two may still have been in service in 1940-41. Not many made and specifically produced for colonial service. Of course low production numbers no longer seems to be a barrier to them being produced in miniature.
Title: Italians in Libya
Post by: Plynkes on 07 April 2010, 07:37:45 PM
It's a fun flick. The mocked up Fiat 3000 tanks are cleverly done.

I've just watched it and I agree. An enjoyable watch, especially for four quid. Much more action and much less dull expository dialogue than you usually get in this kind of film, and I think the picture is all the better for that.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Omar1.jpg)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Omar2.jpg)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Omar6.jpg)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Omar5.jpg)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Omar4.jpg)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Omar3.jpg)

Definitely worth a look, doubly so if you can get it as cheaply as I did.

Title: Italians in Libya
Post by: Gluteus Maximus on 07 April 2010, 07:42:49 PM
Stick a smokestack on the rear-end of those tankettes and they would be perfect for VSF.

I don't suppose there are any models in a scale compatible with 28mm?
Title: Italians in Libya
Post by: Plynkes on 07 April 2010, 07:52:58 PM
rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb ...VSF.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/GroanHenryIII.jpg)

 :)
Title: Italians in Libya
Post by: commissarmoody on 08 April 2010, 02:21:52 AM
Just got done watching the movie last night. :o
It was amazing!
Title: Italians in Libya
Post by: Gluteus Maximus on 08 April 2010, 08:35:24 AM
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/GroanHenryIII.jpg)

 :)

 lol Sorry, I forgot how much you love VSF ....... or not  ;)
Title: Italians in Libya
Post by: Plynkes on 08 April 2010, 12:38:32 PM
I don't suppose there are any models in a scale compatible with 28mm?

Not that I know of. You can get 1/72 and 1/35 ones easily enough:

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/TO105.jpg)

But I don't know about wargamey scales. There may well be a resin wargame kit out there somewhere, but I don't know. It's a bit outside my area. On the other hand it is basically just an Italian copy of a Renault FT17, and wargame kits of those are ten a penny.*




*Actual cost may vary.
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: answer_is_42 on 08 April 2010, 12:42:55 PM
Stick a smokestack on the rear-end of those tankettes and they would be perfect for VSF.
(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc183/answeris42/Random%20stuff/Tanks.jpg)
Oh yeah...

 :D
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: Plynkes on 08 April 2010, 12:44:57 PM
I made this into a new topic, as we had got quite far away from the original business of Empress miniatures MG teams.


Also, some more names are going into my little book.  >:D
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: Hammers on 08 April 2010, 12:49:00 PM
(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc183/answeris42/Random%20stuff/Tanks.jpg)
Oh yeah...

 :D

*guns *_42 in the street like the good for nothing, rotten scoundrel he is*

That over and done with; when I saw that film some years ago I just registered them as Renault F17s. I now see the error of my ways but I don't feel horribly bad about it. They are *awfly* alike, are they not?
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: answer_is_42 on 08 April 2010, 12:51:09 PM
Does this mean we can be friends?
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: Plynkes on 08 April 2010, 03:52:57 PM
I wonder if the nice people at Empress would consider bringing one out? They didn't take any to Spain as far as I know, but I'm (fairly) sure they were used in Ethiopia.
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: Hammers on 08 April 2010, 03:56:50 PM
It's a fun flick. The mocked up Fiat 3000 tanks are cleverly done.

How do you see they are mockups?
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: answer_is_42 on 08 April 2010, 04:09:55 PM
How do you see they are mockups?
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/italy/tanks-light/fiat-3000.asp
Note the length of the chassis, and I think the turret and tracks are different too. At least, this is my impression.

I've always thought the FT-17, and all it's offshoots, were the coolest tanks ever...
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: Plynkes on 08 April 2010, 04:10:31 PM
They didn't get the shape of the hull quite right. The body is way too tall.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Omar1.jpg)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/fiat-3000-l5.jpg)

Still pretty good job, though. At least they tried, unlike many of the WWII movies around.
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: answer_is_42 on 08 April 2010, 04:19:54 PM
Still pretty good job, though. At least they tried, unlike many of the WWII movies around.

Yes indeed. I was watching A Bridge too Far the other day, which is virtually perfect in regards of equipment etc except for the German Panzers, which are not quite right...
(http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/4526/leopard1aswwiipanzerabr.jpg)
Image nicked off someone on the web.

This is probably waay off topic. Sorry.
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: carlos marighela on 08 April 2010, 04:29:27 PM
I read somewhere that the ones in the film are basically plywood bodies built onto a Caterpillar bulldozer, no they aren't perfect but they certainly look the part, at least as well as any T-34 masquerading as a Tiger, so beloved of WW2 films.

Nobody does a Fiat 3000 in 28mm, 1/56, 1/60, 1/48 whatever. Mr Plynkes has pointed out that plastic versions exist in1/35 and I seem to recall that there is a 1/72 version in resin. If you want to convert one from a Renault FT-17  for 28mm, 15mm or some other odd scale then look for one with a resin body. The principal visual difference aside from armament is a slightly flatter shape to the rear deck and some minor differences in exhaust placement and running gear. All versions had the riveted flat sided hull. There was an update done in the early thirties with a new gun and some of those soldiered on in Sicily during WW2. There's a good photo essay on the beast on the Tanks! website
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: Hammers on 08 April 2010, 09:03:08 PM
Yes indeed. I was watching A Bridge too Far the other day, which is virtually perfect in regards of equipment etc except for the German Panzers, which are not quite right...
(http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/4526/leopard1aswwiipanzerabr.jpg)
Image nicked off someone on the web.

This is probably waay off topic. Sorry.

I always detested those Patton M60 panzer substitutes in films like that. Still do. And whem M3s were used in place of Sdkfz 251s
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: carlos marighela on 08 April 2010, 09:58:29 PM
At least that one is a German tank, it's a Leopard.
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: Plynkes on 08 April 2010, 10:59:54 PM
This is probably waay off topic. Sorry.
Ah, who cares, we're among friends here. Let's talk about whatever the hell we like. Just don't grass me up to Alex, all right?  And anyway, I hear that this year off-topic is the new on-topic.

It doesn't bother me much, unless it is an already crappy film that has succeeded in putting me in a bad mood and a picky frame of mind in the first place. If the film is good, I tend not to notice, or just to smile inwardly in smug satisfaction that I have spotted something wrong (and then tell someone how clever I've been later on).

Despite White/International half tracks and Land Rovers, Ice Cold in Alex is still a great picture*.





*And at least it's a real Katy.
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: Poiter50 on 15 April 2023, 02:34:34 AM
Threadomancy perhaps but with the rise of 3D printing, have we seen the Italian tank version of the Fiat/French FT or perhaps even the Italian armoured car?
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: carlos marighela on 15 April 2023, 04:34:04 PM
There is now a 1/56 version* and super cheap available off the peg. Not perfect but looks good enough for the table.

https://www.anyscalemodels.com/shop/wargames/fiat3000tank.html

https://www.anyscalemodels.com/shop/wargames/fiat3000tank-with-twin-mg.html


*Actually two versions, the twin 6.5mm MG and the 37mm gun armed versions
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: Leapsnbounds on 16 April 2023, 01:18:09 AM
It's been years since I've seen the movie, but I alwys enjoyed it when it came on T.V.
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: italwars on 16 April 2023, 02:07:12 PM
The moovie produced by Ghedaffi  and censured in Italy was not too bad but , from an historical point of view, as Carlos pointed out, the  representation of Italian metropolitan troops employed in battle is wrong ..we are talking about the so called “reconquest of Libya”, between the wars campaign, which was carried out, almost totally  , by camel mounted native troops (sahariani), very similar to the French meharistes, closely supported by planes and armored cars with sparse employment also of truck carried lybian  infantry askaris and native artillery ..the armored cars weren’t able to directly catch the very mobile mounted rebel units and the few small tanks saw, practically, no action at all.
Some historians pointed out that the gathered experience of brand new  tactics and organizations of those mixed columns with  cooperating truck carried Lybian  infantry , mounted troops, armored cars and planes, even if innovative, didn’t gave any advantage or stood as an established good practice in desert warfare for those same generals that were soundly defeated ,years later , at the beginning of western desert WW2 campaign.
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: marco55 on 16 April 2023, 04:30:43 PM
This was a pretty good movie. I enjoyed seeing the armored cars and tanks of the time. The interwar colonial wars were quite interesting to me as it was a bridge between the old way of colonial warfare and the new.
Mark
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: Golgotha on 18 April 2023, 06:59:47 PM
Its a fantastic movie - reminds me of Lawrence of Arabia but not as amazing. Would love to wargame this...
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: Helen on 08 May 2023, 12:05:43 AM
This is my Shapeways model of the Fiat 3000 in 28mm for my Sicily project.

(https://i.imgur.com/vaeFBS4.jpg)
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: carlos marighela on 08 May 2023, 05:59:00 AM
Lovely work Helen!

I can't help thinking though that it needs a speech bubble coming from it saying 'Exterminate, exterminate!'  :) Such is the inevitable fate of all small, riveted, interwar tanks.
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: Helen on 08 May 2023, 06:40:57 AM
Lovely work Helen!

I can't help thinking though that it needs a speech bubble coming from it saying 'Exterminate, exterminate!'  :) Such is the inevitable fate of all small, riveted, interwar tanks.
Thanks. Yes, it does have some sort of resemblance. Brave tank crews in Sicily facing off the allies.
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: Marine0846 on 08 May 2023, 04:54:40 PM
Love the tank, Helen.
Well done.
Great use of color.
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: Helen on 08 May 2023, 08:49:22 PM
Love the tank, Helen.
Well done.
Great use of color.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: Plynkes on 08 May 2023, 10:27:14 PM
Thumbs up, Helen!


Nice to see this thirteen-year-old topic still has legs.  :)



Title: Re: Italians in Libya
Post by: Helen on 09 May 2023, 12:36:30 AM
Thanks Dylan. Just like us Dylan we still have our legs.  :)