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Miniatures Adventure => SuperHero Adventures => Topic started by: Weird WWII on 09 April 2010, 01:10:12 AM

Title: The Flash Kickin' Ass (Golden Age Background)
Post by: Weird WWII on 09 April 2010, 01:10:12 AM

Although I play WWWII I needed the opinion of you comic geeks on a problem I've been having with some new rules.  Been play testing the Flash for some Weird WWII gaming and I have come to the conclusion that the guy is just to powerful to defend against.  Played a game were a King Tiger was pushing through some light woods with a escort of 2 PG squads and the only Allied threat was the Flash with a bag full of Frag grenades.  I made the terrain light woods because in my rules I was saying that if the Flash is in any kind of difficult terrain he would have to pass a Skill Check (The ability of the individual to perform certain tasks based on their moral) before each Action of movement because of all the possible trips he could fall into when running since he can run at the speed of light.  I even limited him inches per Action because of all the wartime variables that he might just accidentally run into.  Didn't give him a gun as he could outrun the bullets before they even left the barrel and wouldn't be able to hit a damn thing because he was moving so slow unless shoot behind himself at point blank range but then he would surly smack into something.  Since he isn't really a soldier or trained in any military art I only mad him of Veteran Troop Quality (Level of skill in any given combat situation) so he the possibility of him tripping up is there.  In 2 turns, the Flash trans-versed a 8x4 table and killed every last Jerry on the board.  He only had 5 grenades but since he moves so fast he just pulled the pins on several of the PGs own grenades and let them do the work for him.  Hell, he even phased through the Tiger and stuck a couple grenades in the ammo storage and was off the battlefield before it even blew up.  Any suggestions of how to retard the Flash's speed other then by enemy supers or weird gear or weapons?

Garrick is one mean SOB on the battlefield that's for sure,
Brian

Title: Re: The Flash Kickin' Ass (Golden Age Background)
Post by: leonmallett on 09 April 2010, 08:28:19 AM

I am not certain, but I think the molecular vibration was a silver age concept, so could be possibly be ditched.

Maybe try and abstract his rules concept - what about making his movement x2, x3 or x4 only that of normal troops.

In the comic books regular villains still get lucky strikes in against him, so try and factor that in even if it fails against the hypothesis of a man able to run and react hundreds of times faster than a normal man.

Title: Re: The Flash Kickin' Ass (Golden Age Background)
Post by: cheetor on 09 April 2010, 09:26:28 AM

Like a lot of supers, Jay Garricks powers are so massively awesome that gaming with them has to be a compromise I think.  Tabletop gaming with them becomes redundant unless some liberties are taken IMO.

Quote from: leonmallett on 09 April 2010, 08:28:19 AM

I am not certain, but I think the molecular vibration was a silver age concept, so could be possibly be ditched.

I am not 100% certain re this either, but I dont *think* that Jay can run at super speed and phase through an object simultaneously.  It may not be canon, but he is regularly depicted as stopping to engage in some sort of phasing process as he meets an object. 

Limiting the Flash in some way such as that would be easy to employ in terms of game rules and still fit with the character IMO.

Quote from: leonmallett on 09 April 2010, 08:28:19 AM

Maybe try and abstract his rules concept - what about making his movement x2, x3 or x4 only that of normal troops.

That is sound advice I think.  Just because he can run at light speed doesnt mean that he always does.  He might save such exertion for special occasions, maybe once per game or campaign or something.

Quote from: leonmallett on 09 April 2010, 08:28:19 AM

In the comic books regular villains still get lucky strikes in against him, so try and factor that in even if it fails against the hypothesis of a man able to run and react hundreds of times faster than a normal man.

Exactly.  Comic writers tend to be inconsistent with the abilities of super characters in order to progress the plot.  Mildly irritating to me when I channel comic-store-guy, but necessary overall.

In the case of a character who could in theory simply unscrew every bolt and connector on every mechanical object on the battlefield in under a second (and has done so in comics and cartoons) some limitations have to be imposed in order to game with him.

Let us know what you come up with :)

Title: Re: The Flash Kickin' Ass (Golden Age Background)
Post by: Plynkes on 09 April 2010, 09:28:59 AM

Well you could start by taking his bag of grenades off him. Now I don't know nothing about any Golden Age, but lobbing grenades about isn't the behavior of any kind of superhero I ever read in a comic as a kid.

Title: Re: The Flash Kickin' Ass (Golden Age Background)
Post by: JollyBob on 09 April 2010, 02:51:42 PM

Perhaps have some mechanism that forces him to accelerate and decelerate?

Instead of him going from a standing start to lightspeed, he moves up in increments, ie Turn 1 he moves at normal human running speed, then Turn 2 he can move at twice that, Turn 3 four times etc etc.

Same for deceleration, if he stopped dead from moving at 15,000 mph, his brain would shoot out of his nose.

Mix that with Cheetor's idea about him having to stop to phase or otherwise affect an object/person with his superspeed, and I think that would even things out a bit. It would mean he can still cover a lot of ground very quickly, but it would also give him moments of vulneralbility that the opposition could take advantage of.

Title: Re: The Flash Kickin' Ass (Golden Age Background)
Post by: wellender on 09 April 2010, 04:32:35 PM

Quote from: Plynkes on 09 April 2010, 09:28:59 AM

Well you could start by taking his bag of grenades off him. Now I don't know nothing about any Golden Age, but lobbing grenades about isn't the behavior of any kind of superhero I ever read in a comic as a kid.

I gotta agree here.  Weapons are not really his thing.  He would be more likely to disarm and tie-up his enemies.

Also, Jay Garrick is not nearly as fast as Barry Allen or Wally West.  Especially during WWII.  You could slow his movement down a bit.  I have never seen him vibrate through anything, and certainly not during WWII.  Like somebody mentioned earlier, that's more a Silver Age thing.

Title: Re: The Flash Kickin' Ass (Golden Age Background)
Post by: Hat Guy on 10 April 2010, 03:50:41 AM

What set of rules are you using for WWWII? I'm looking at branching into the genre and I want something that works well with Supers.

Title: Re: The Flash Kickin' Ass (Golden Age Background)
Post by: Weird WWII on 10 April 2010, 06:29:33 AM

To leonmallett
I also to thought that the phasing through things was a Silver Age thing but I have read that Garrick had done it a couple time in the old days as well.  Your right about the speed as he is just to fast but I also want to try and keep in the spirit of their powers.  I think I will defiantly reduce his speed if not for anything else but him being more cautious in a war zone. 

To cheetor
I did as make him have to stop then phase and that is the only reason it took him 2 turns instead of one to kill everyone ;D  The limiting of his presence is a great idea as he is covering a wide front and not just what is depicted on the table.  Maybe 2 turns max and then he's off to Berlin.

To Plynkes
I wanted to try and make supers a bit more realistic in their motivation so they have entered service into the military just like the common Joe.  No Comic Code or ethical mandates from the Editor in our games ;)

To JollyBob
That was how I was going to do his speed first off but in the cannon he is protected by the Speed Force thing so his brains are going to be cool going from 15Kmph to 0mph in a second.

To wellender
I'll have to track down some Gold Age reprints and see if I can find these phase instances.

To Hat Guy
I use mods off the Battleground WWII system to game our WWWII.  Swing over to my site and check out all the Battle Reports and free rules of supers and other historic and weird stuff.
http://whattheminiatures.com/forum/index.php

I think what I will do is limit is use by D4 Turns and slow him up by giving him D10 Actions instead of D20 Actions per turn.  I will also probably cut his max speed in 1/2 of what I had it at to slow him up even more and will give him a larger penalty to sight things if he is running super fast.  I'll also create some special kit that isn't to weird war for his enemies to repel against him, maybe something as simple as a grenade that covers an area with a sticky substance that can ensnare or trip him up.  Great suggestions guys and I'll try to get a game in and see what happens.

Thanks again,
Brian

(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/kampfgruppecottrell/jay-garrick.jpg)