Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: Red Orc on April 14, 2010, 10:57:07 AM
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Hi chaps, sorry to butt in with such a ridiculously simple question, but I can only plead that as a VSF, fantasy and sci-fi gamer I've never really had to be in the least constrained by anything approaching historical accuracy, and throw myself on your collective mercies.
I have some excellently-painted Ironclad late Victorian British Line Infantry (I think) in Home Service kit (I think...). They look very like
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm219/redorc01/DSC02366.jpg)
this.
My plan is to use them for one of a number of fictional regiments in an alternative 1890s. However, as at least a nod to historical authenticity, I would rather try to get the paramenters right when I'm making up regiments. For instance, they're not equiped as a Highland regiment. Nor do they look like Guards. But when it comes to Rifle Regiments, Yeomanry, Light Infantry or Fusiliers (or other types of regiment I've not mentioned), I don't know which would or could be plausible.
In short, what type of infantry do these chaps most resemble do you think?
Thank you very much in advance for your words of wisdom, oh most knowledgeable sages of things actual and historic!
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They are Line Infantry in the post 1881 uniform with 'jampot' cuffs used up to about 1902. You can use them for light Infantry ie the Ox's and Bucks simply by painting the helmet dark green rather than dark blue so you can basicaly use them for any County Regiment.
Fusiliers wore fur caps, bit smaller than the Guards but you could paint them as Rifles in dark green with black webbing as the wore this pattern helmet for a while before the introduction of their 'busbys'.
Yeomanry are cavalry and wore all sorts of different uniforms so would need another source for them.
Hope this helps a bit.
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If they have those white facings they are an English or Welsh infantry regiment, one without the word "Royal" in its title.
(Incidentally, I thought the Rifles 'Busby' was a passing fad of the 1870s, having gone the way of the Dodo by the 1890s. ???)
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The funky Fusilier home service hats Timg mentioned, in case anyone fancies doing some converting...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Fusiliers.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Royal20Welsh20Fusiliers.jpg)
:)
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However, as at least a nod to historical authenticity...
If you want my opinion, then if there had been a European war in the 1890s, it would have taken all of five minutes for the Home Service Uniforms to be chucked back in the wardrobe and you'd see the Tommies marching out in khaki. :)
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That's a good point you've got there Plynkes. What would they have worn on their heads if there had been a European war in the 1890's? I cant see them wearing a pith helmet just to cross the Channel and I cant really see the home service helmets going with the khaki, unless they cover them I suppose.
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As people have said, line infantry, various regiments will do.
You can also paint them as the Royal Irish Rifles, they usually wore a busby but in 1881 and 1891 they wore the Home Service Helmet.
They were in Dark Green with a Dark Green helmet and Dark Bronze fittings, with black belts.
Mike
www.blackhat.co.uk
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What would they have worn on their heads if there had been a European war in the 1890's?
Mid 1890s the Field Service Cap replaced the Glengarry*, so they might have worn those until tin hats are invented in the third year of the war. ;)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Coloured20FS20Caps.jpg)
(Also available in khaki.)
*Unless you happen to be in a Scottish regiment.
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Every day is a school day on this forum! Thanks Plynkes. :)
And yes, my mind is racing with new ideas! ;)
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Here's a cool look for all you Home Service Uniform freaks:
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/ScotsGuards.jpg)
Scots Guards in Home Service Undress* (not sure of the exact date - early 20th Century though). Apart from the hats this look would work for an 1890s "what if" game.
*I think, not sure. Home Service Undress was white for Highland and Guards Regiments. One book I have calls those tight white jackets "Drill Order" - all those myriad different kinds of dress confuse the hell out of me, I must confess, never mind the fact that they always change everything every five minutes.
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Every day is a school day on this forum! Thanks Plynkes. :)
And yes, my mind is racing with new ideas! ;)
Racing with new ideas..... those caps look colourful enough to be be racing colours.
How about a home service steeplechase team ?
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I think those ones are actually WWII-era. That style of field service cap seems to have gone in and out of fashion throughout the 20th Century.
The Royal Flying Corps had them during the Great War, but I'm not sure who else did.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/rfc04.jpg)
By the late 30s almost everybody was wearing them again, only to dump them for berets towards the end of the war. They should just make their bloody minds up, pick a hat and stick to it. Would make things much easier on us wargamers.
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;D Make you wonder who the hell is responsible for military fashion… lol
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Whilst it's a good rough and ready generalisation that county regiments were wearing national based facings, white, yellow green, it's worth noting that a bit more individuality crept in the further away one got from 1882. That was the official plan but it was nibbled away at. The British Army, being the British Army, various regiments succeeded in getting their traditional facings reinstated as the period progressed, the Buffs (East kent) got their eponymous facings back by 1890. Alas I don't believe the West Kents (the 'dirty half hundred' or 50th Foot) got their black facings back as they had become a 'Royal' regiment as part of the Cardwell reforms. The Royal regiments all wore blue facings of course.
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Yep the Buffs unofficialy used to use a buff pipeclay on their white cuffs untill the authorities gave in and restored their traditional facings.
The Field service cap for infantry was dark blue (green for light infantry) It was replaced by the Broderick, the infamous German style cap about 1902/3 ish and then the peaked cap in 1905 i think.
Plynkes is correct, the white drill jackets were worn by Scots and Guards, the Guards still wore them up to the 1930's.
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It's funny this business of the headgear fashions changing with the wind. I have a friend who was in the RAF and he told me there was much resistance in his outfit to the introduction of the shapeless, ugly beret at the expense of what they considered the smart service cap. He said that he and a lot of his mob kept their old service caps and they continued to wear them as often as they could get away with it.
I wonder if that type of thing went on much in other periods when there were changes of military fashion?
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Should imagine so, keeping an old piece of kit would mark the old sweat. When Battle Dress into the Army was introduced many old soldiers kept hold of the peaked Service Dress cap as it was smarter and marked them out as pre war intake, of course it tended to be used as an off duty or walking out item rather than in formation when the Sgt Majors were prowling.
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Thanks very much for all the replies chaps. I should perhaps have made clear that under no circumstances was I planning to repaint anything, as Majorsmith's painting skill far exceeds my own; they will remain the best-dressed force at my disposal, as befits their status as soldiers of the Queen. Thus, they will remain a Line Infantry regiment, from England as that seems easier, and almost certainly to start with, from Trumptonshire (which is more or less where Wiltshire is I think). So they will for the time being, be the Trumptonshire Regiment, following the merger under the Childers reforms of the North Trumptonshire Volunteer Regiment and the Duke of Melchester's Own Regiment of Foot.
Plynkes, the pic of the early-20th Home Service Undress chaps in their natty caps and white jackets is amazing. Very 'what if' indeed. My suspicion is that there are Ruritanians just out of view...
Thanks again guys, this certainly has been an education.
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I thought that light infantry wore a little Austrian style kepi after 1880. Did I get this wrong?
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yes