Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: traveller on 13 May 2010, 04:58:53 PM
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It has been said before and it deserves to be said again, it´s a great movie. I just re-watched it for the xxth time and I just love it. For those who haven´t seen it, just go and get it :o
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Saw it last month, the battle scence are great. I wonder where they got thos old Fiat tanks?
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Saw it last month, the battle scence are great. I wonder where they got thos old Fiat tanks?
I think you are referring to another great movie "Lion of the Desert" ;)
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My favorite movie of all time!!! Zulu is a close 2nd and Sandpebbles third
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My favorite movie of all time!!! Zulu is a close 2nd and Sandpebbles third
Great movie, the Marines with a Navy Colt MG attacking the palace is classic colonialism at it's best. Lots of other fun battle scenes too. A favorite scene is when the stiff upper lip English guest is poping one rift raider after another with his pistol -boom-dead raider-"Down Edith"-boom-dead raider-ominous click "Oh Damn" slice-. Just like so many a roleplaying adventure, reloading is such a bother.
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It's one of my gaming groups all time favorite movies. I've been thinking about setting up a game based on the last big fight. I've got a bunch of sailors, but no Colt MG, and SAW US marines would work just great.
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I am just painting Mrs Pedicaris, her children and the Raisuli. I have the Berbers, Marines and the sailers lined up, still missing suitable German though. Are there any available with pickelhaube with cover?
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Renegade Miniatures does a full line of Early WWI Germans with covered pickelhaubes. They are a great price too.
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"Burn!" is one of the best Colonial Movies ever.
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"Burn!" is one of the best Colonial Movies ever.
Tell us more! I found 14 movies with that titel in imdb. Which year is it from?
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It has been said before and it deserves to be said again, it´s a great movie. I just re-watched it for the xxth time and I just love it. For those who haven´t seen it, just go and get it :o
Done it. £5.21 from Amazon
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Fascinating.
Pontecorvo's Burn and The Wind and the Lion in the same thread.
Back in the day, I was president of the Uni Film Society. I had that up as a double bill one night. Both really interesting views on the nature of colonialism.
Brando even held himself in control for most of Burn.
Connery was fun in W/L but I hated the star-power rationale for blacking him up.
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Another one to remember, from the same director John Milius, is "Rough Riders" great battle scenes form San Juan Hill.
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Bezzo,
that was quick
Yes warflags battle report, very inspiring (as all of his site)
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Love "Rough Rider" :-*
Love "Wind and the Lion" :-*
Great, enjoyable films, vusually excellent.
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Saw it last month, the battle scence are great. I wonder where they got thos old Fiat tanks?
I read somewhere that they were all made specially for the Lion of the Desert. The producer talked Gaddafi into giving him shedloads of funding for the movie which it stood no chance of making back as it never got a proper release.
Just found this:
http://therunagatesclub.blogspot.com/2008/01/lion-of-desert-dvd-backgrounder.html
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we did a game at THS last Year
(http://www.ths-wargames.de/material/tanger/bild02)
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we did a game at THS last Year
(http://www.ths-wargames.de/material/tanger/bild02)
where are the rest of the pics
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... and where are the figures from? ;)
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Those figures are Mega Miniatures if I'm not mistaken - I second MORE photos please.
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I rented 'Burn' and was pretty disappointed. Slow paced, not much action, lots of talking heads. What is it which made it enjoyable to those of you who like it?
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"Burn!" is one of the best Colonial Movies ever.
whos in it?
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whos in it?
Brando
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn!)
thank god netflix has all these films or I would be going poor already.
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I think you ment to post this link lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn!
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Watched 'The Lion in the Desert' last night. Top notch movie, cracking battle scenes and Ollie Reed and Anthony Quinn in top form. Recommended. 'Wind and the Lion' due today from Amazon. Next 'The Lion with Wind in the Desert'!
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I apologize
we do not have a direct link, so
here
http://www.ths-wargames.de/index2.htm
check out gallery/20tz century/Tangier 1905
there You can find the rest of the pictures
For the miniatures You'll have to ask @Dragoman - his miniatures, his game. We had a lot of fun
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We will have to talk Dr Twilight into making those fiat tanks. lol
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Very nice game former user!
It should have fun! I wish I were there!
.- I think you need some upgrade. If you can get Askari miniatures, they have a lovely set of Sultan's guard (among other interesting packs)!
http://www.askari-minis.com/webstore/index.php?cPath=52
.- what on earth those "crimean greeks" are doing among the arnauts!
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.- what on earth those "crimean greeks" are doing among the arnauts!
:D we do not always have the proper miniatures ;)
However, since @Dragoman is very interested in the Ottoman empire period I will give him the hint to ask You for further information.
How do You recognize Crimean greeks is a total mystery to me.
Maybe You can post the appropriate picture and develop a bit on that?
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I rented 'Burn' and was pretty disappointed. Slow paced, not much action, lots of talking heads. What is it which made it enjoyable to those of you who like it?
Its action sequences are not the point. It was one of the first serious attempts to show the corrosive and contradictory consequences of colonialism. It doesn't always work but Walker (Brando) was a good representation of the hundred of agents sent out by European colonial powers to foment rebellion, unrest and advantage for their masters.
Interestingly, it was a film of which he was very proud. Unlike Island of Doctor Moreau (blecch)
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If you check your photo titled Arnauten, you see in the far right one greek evzone somewhere in the middle you see another (the one with a red coat) behind him is the third one. It is the one in blue coat with the sword pointing.
all these come from foundry's CMG1 & CMG2 packs, whichare named in artistic licence "greek volunteers" firing and advancing with officer.
Alas, their uniform is not correct in general and can only be fielded only as tokens in wargames.
There is always a relation between greece and russia. The south of russia from Odessa to the caucasus are there were lots of greek habitants (even today ?) speaking greek. Remember that names like Sevastopol, Simferopol etc are greek name, ancient greek colonies (since 7c BC or so). They used to field separate regiments in some of russia's war. Famous Balaclave regiment in the Napoleonic wars.
During Crimean war, the small kingdom of greece, trying to survive in the tiny territory that had after the war of independence, thought that fielding with the orthodox brothers of russia, will bring the much needed territorial expansion. The memories from the indepedence war against the ottoman empire were still fresh, considering also that more than half of todays greek territory was still under ottoman rule. Also, remember that Ottomans were allied to france and britain against russia. The "allies" blockaded piraeus and forced official government into a neutrality, hard paid by the plague brought in the territory by the evacuating french and british troops.
Some greeks volunteers left greece and joined with local greeks and formed again the balaclava regiment. but they wore russian style uniforms, while they carried a sky blue flag with a gold cross. what they did or what they achieved is another story, that I do not know, yet, and is far beyond the scope of this thread.
My initial question was placed, because they do not look like arnauts, and by 1900 when thw actual incident of mrs pendecaris took place, I think that there was no use of the term "arnaut" and is difficult to find greek troops in any sultan's army. But, I take your word as "we do not always have the proper miniatures"
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It's one of my gaming groups all time favorite movies. I've been thinking about setting up a game based on the last big fight. I've got a bunch of sailors, but no Colt MG, and SAW US marines would work just great.
Tom,
Redoubt makes a nice 28mm Colt MG, on on a wheeled carriage as seen in the film.
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@Argsilverson
(http://www.ths-wargames.de/material/tanger/bild04)
it would be this picture
as a matter of fact, these were meant to be some sort of mercenaries, and I think the choice of word was not meant historically, but more as a kind of "tag" in a muslim context.
As such the band was OK to look "Ragtag".
What I can say is that the original meaning of "arnaut" is turkish and means "Albanian", and I know of the use of this word for the end of the 19th C in the (Albanian) mercenary context. Whether it was still used in 1905 and in Morocco I can't say.
I agree that greek mercenaries in Muslim employment are hardly compatible, although I can not say if the ethnic costume associated with "Evzone" was originally purely greek or general balcanic. What I know is that this costume was inspired by the κλέφτης rebels when Queen Amalia designed the original uniform in the 1830ies, and thus must be associated by Greeks with the fight against Ottoman rule. Since the Albanians were originally Greeks who converted to Islam and thus were able to rise in the Ottoman Military, my "educated guess" would be that the origin of κλέφτης costume would be southern balcanic/northeastern greek and thus some variation possible in the Albanic ethnic costume.
This site
http://www.albanian.com/v4/showthread.php?t=19017
tags this picture as "Albanian costume 1915"
(http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/5760/costumeyg4.jpg)
so I cannot say much apart from the fact that the miniatures You mention seem to have some pants beneath the kilt
But this topic is interesting and I would certainly like to learn more about it.
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former user:
don;t take as granted whatever you find in the net.
anyhow the kilts appear in many south balkan regions, but also they present differences in style, cut and fashion throughout the whole balkan peninsula. Fustanella (the kilt with 400 plaids) is the traditional costume of Peloponese and Sterea Hellas (central greece south of thessaly). This model was used for the bavarians to cut some of the military uniforms. Amalia designed the female costume, which is still named as "amalia" and "amalias" are the girls wearing this costume (in carnival or national feasts) something similar to the meaning of "dirndl" .
Rest I think is not related to original thread.
I do not know whether they used the term arnaut by the end of 19th century, I think they might have used the term bashi-bouzouks for the irregular and light infantry. In north africa it is unlikely they used terms like arnauts, basically usually, if I am not mistaken, arnauts were used in the balkans. But all these are irrelevant to the game itself.
My only question was how managed to use the "crimean greek volunteers" as arnauts, but as I told you everybody uses the available figures in the games. (I once used ottoman gunners as swedish artillery in a game against moghul indians -instead of appropriate figures for a 30yearsWar game !!!! imagine gustavus adolfus against elephants !!!)
BTW during Ottoman empire there was not any sole greek unit, Greeks drafted mainly in the navy or the "martolos" provisional units among other otoman subjects.
Since you like criticism there are two other units that need to be discussed. militia and sultan's guard. militia unit has smarter uniforms that the guard's
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Thx for the loads of Information.
What You mentioned would be these units I guess
(http://www.ths-wargames.de/material/tanger/bild09)
(http://www.ths-wargames.de/material/tanger/bild18)
Well, I guess the Guard are french Turcos and the militia Belgian Akaris
Which one is smarter I can't tell
all not my miniatures
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(http://www.ths-wargames.de/material/tanger/bild02)
Who makes the parrots on the perch? The rest of the set seems to be Mega Miniatures, but I can't see the birds in the Mega Minis eBay shop. Thanks.
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Since the Albanians were originally Greeks who converted to Islam
I didn't know that.
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Greeks in a broader sense - but indeed, Albanians were one of the few groups on the Balkans who readily converted to Islam. Ironically, Irecently read that many Albanians nowadays would reassume their greek names and reconvert in order to get a greek "greencard"....
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Greeks in a broader sense - but indeed, Albanians were one of the few groups on the Balkans who readily converted to Islam. Ironically, Irecently read that many Albanians nowadays would reassume their greek names and reconvert in order to get a greek "greencard"....
This is not so!
Basically there are 2 Albanian groups. One (the majority) was easily converted to Islam while the other remained (orthodox) christian, alongwith the greek population. There is also a small catholic minority.Albanians do say that they are Illyrians and related in a sense with the greeks.
Today's South Albania (in greek geography: North Epirus) was inhabited by greeks (some 400.000 regarded as minority). They spoke greek, had greek names, some greek schools and churches (but not during the Hozha period) These greeks were easily to come as immigrants, after the collapse of Albania's communist regime, since they had the status of greek origin. It is sure that
among them surely there were and some muslims disguished as greeks just to get easily the greencards etc. Some managed to do so, other did not.
As for the parrots: I think it is from an amazon miniatures set with a naked princecc declined on couch complete with hookah and a parrot. Today I could not find this set in amazon's website (as all miniatures from Legends of Araby system).
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I apologize
I certainly can't make detailed statements, since I am not greek.
With greek in the broader sense I mean ethnic groups who at the transition from the eastern roman empire to the Byzantine empire spoke greek and would cover from Asia Minor to somewhere in Illyria. I am aware that the term today is seen in a narrower sense.
In my broader perspective, I would equal Greek=Byzantine, with local differences.
As I read, the greek minority in Albania is very strong.
I am not that firm in greek history to really know how much of Todays' borders are owed to Ottoman regional subdivisions and the Hellenic independence, WWI etc.
(oh, and please let's not start the "Macedonia" discussion too) ;)
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I apologize
No need to, at least for me.
With greek in the broader sense
Agree with you
(oh, and please let's not start the "Macedonia" discussion too) ;)
Ditto
I am quite unhappy, though, since my small remark about Foundry's miniatures has triggered such an exchange of messages, mostly between me and former user. Sorry, guys for this.
In order to come back in the sense of the titled of the thread, I will add:
Rifraf miniatures is planning a pack of Rifian command that includes a Raisuli !!!
BTW former user, do you know the manufacturer of the pentecaris children?
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I am sorry, these are not my miniatures, but @Dragoman's - try a PM.
our small discussion may have been a bit OT, but it shows the problem of using miniatures generally seen as "oriental" (fez, wide pants). For me it was a good lesson into recruitment policies of the late ottoman empire, but I apologize to those who see it as too much OT.
It would appear that both gamers and sculptors tend to mix ethnic peculiarities (or is it the general "oriental" fashion of the late 19th C??)
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former user
if your group wants to invest in enrichment of this game, I would reccomend to add some minis:
.- askari miniatures: Sultan guards (i already provided some link in an earlier post). they are portrayed exactly as per the sultan's guard in the film, i.e. with spahi-like uniform. Alas there is no guards with MG (but according to the film they did not manage to use them.
.- perry miniatures: bashi-bouzouks
.- I cannot, though, recommend any miniatures for the sailors marching band!
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It would appear that both gamers and sculptors tend to mix ethnic peculiarities (or is it the general "oriental" fashion of the late 19th C??)
it sounds that you have seen my earlier message while I was modifying it.
anyhow I believe that this is done due to lack of proper research sometimes.
Anyhow it was a lovely game (photo report) and I feel I would like to participate sometime. I always wanted to make some similar game.
Which rules did you use?
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.... I forgot :(
possibly "the sword and the flame"...
I am not that much into oriental miniatures, but in case I would be certainly interested in the Perry Bashi Bouzouk and the conquest (Brigade?) arabs
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:) I am prejudiced but I love it. I was just arriving at Rota, Spain for duty and just barely missed being an extra. Almost all of the Marines were actual Marines from the Marine company at Rota and the private who got yanked back through the door by the sargent with the shotgun is named Chesty Puller and apparently broke his arm in the stunt. Also in Sean Connery's Cuba all the cuban officers and wives slaughtered at the beginning are the Officers and wives from the navy Hospital in Rota.
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Just finished watching The Wind and the Lion. My whole family wandered off after about 15 mins, but I must say I loved it, despite, indeed, because of, the awful acting and truly appalling script/plot. Enough action to keep me interested, certainly. Can't quite work out if it's a very good action-comedy or a very bad action-romance, the opening sequence is very Monty Python. My only real issues were the lack of British troops (would've been fun, y'know) and the apparent indestructibility of the American soldiers compared to the flimsy Germans.
Gave me lots of ideas, must get some Germans...
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awful acting and truly appalling script/plot.
You jest Sir. It was an oscar winning performance, great acting, fantastic score (by the late Jerry Goldsmith), interesting plot.
One of my top 10 all time films. :D
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This is only a guess but if this is in your top 10 films I think you may have only seen 12 or 14 in your life?
I don't get out much ;)
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I don't get out much ;)
poor guy
not even TV or DvD
but seriously, "Wind and the Lion" is one of my must sees too, even if or maybe because it is a bit.... flat