Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Interwar => Topic started by: leadfool on July 02, 2010, 07:41:05 AM
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So I am attracted to these "Very" civil war games as are a lot of others. We are about to launch our "Very American Civil War, 1933" campaign.
I have been trying to think of exactly why this appeal. I have a few ideas and would like to hear others thoughts.
My ideas:
1.It is a war with lots of factions, you could have a three way fight and play it solo.
2. It is easier to imagine being in a "war" with flush toilets and electricity.
3. You don't have to learn a new language.
4. The geography is familiar.
5. It is much easier to put inside jokes in the unit or building names.
6.You can stretch lots of figures into the game.
7.No specific set of rules.
8. No one to tell you your uniform isn't correct.
Thoughts?
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For me it's largely very controllable as the player dictates the scale and course of the conflict. There's also the 'creating history' element rather than being subject to it. That isn't of course to say that there isn't a research element, but that is at the whim of the player. Incidentally there is a great deal of information about the interwar British army, that was pretty obscure before VBCW, that has come out since it, so even for the more 'serious' folk, every cloud does have a silver lining.
There is of course the fantasy element and creative factors too, the background can be as deep or as shallow as you wish and it does sort of take on a life of its own after a while.
Last and by no means least, you get the chance to add in the bits missing from the real wars. I'm very much into the SCW, but like any other historical period, you are limited to the reality of what weapons they used and what vehicles and aircraft they operated. A fictional setting or a war that never was, gives you the chance to field items that never made it into combat. In VBCW terms that could be the Vickers Medium tank, or if you want to push the boundaries, the Vickers Independent may have actually been produced in numbers.
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To me the appeal with VBCW is the Britishness of it all. I find the idea of an all out VBCW quite preposterous but it gives me a reason to throw in all I find fascinating about Britain and her Empire during its final glory days. The feel is close to VSF but less out there.
I find the idea of a ACWII interesting to but I have yet to see someone to come up with scenarios I like. I am much prefer Philip Roth's more subtle alternative history than Harry Turtledove's (which is like comparing LotR with ADD).
And I agree with Jim, what if scenarios have a general appeal to me.
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Only been involved in this period for a few days, but my thoughts -
I too have always been fascinated by 'What If' ideas, and this is perhaps one of the best i've seen.
One of the things I like about this particular one is that I can make it personal and local to me - the idea of my tranquil little town being a battleground, with the BUF goose-stepping up the High Street, Anglicans and Socialists fighting over Mail trucks and local residents fighting back to defend their homes makes it very appealing.
There's a size element for me as well - i've never been good at collecting large armies with 100+ figures. With VBCW I can have 100+ figures, but they can be from three or four different forces with between 30-50 in each.
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To me the appeal with VBCW is the Britishness of it all.
Indeed Hammers, VBCW tastes of gifted amateurism in Wodehouse plum souce, leading to some blunder or other.
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Indeed Hammers, VBCW tastes of gifted amateurism in Wodehouse plum souce, leading to some blunder or other.
(http://www.adventuregaming.tsome.com/TiWCCVG/images/StormGrenadiers.jpg)
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One of the things that appeals to me is the 'Jeeves and Wooster'-y nature of VBCW. I like games that refer to literature, it helps to provide the fictional background.
I started trying to get into gaming the SCW because I'm interested in it as history; but I found I'm not really happy gaming historical conflicts, because if I think about them too much I just end up horrified and not wanting to play.
But I'm happier about VBCW even though I'm currently putting together a force that features real people (my grandparents), but in an unreal situation, one at least that's plausible (somewhat plausible anyway) but that they never had to deal with. I'm also probably using more made up stuff than some, I don't have the BUF in 'my' VBCW, I have a more Yorkshire-Lancashire version called the BLF (this is essentially a Rugby joke).
I dunno, I think it's the interplay between what's 'real' - a certain amount of the background - and what's not - the actual events. I think that's interesting to explore, how the 'givens' affect our understanding (also why as I say earlier I like games based on literature - it's interesting to see the interplay of what's 'fixed' and what isn't).
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I don't like the background at all - I'm sorry, but I like my alternative history to be plausible. Besides, there's easily enough wackiness and adventure (most of which involves the British in some way) in real wars and periods without needing to go for this.
The alternative history scenarios I like are those which very nearly happened, but didn't - a Franco-British war over the 1898 'Fashoda Incident', for example, which, unlike in the world of VBCW, the public would have had a stomach for.
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No need to be sorry, it would be a very dull thread if everyone just commented how great these scenarios are. I do take your point as well, as most British adventures have an element of farce and gifted amateurism in any case. It usually takes some great disaster or other to get the army to take things seriously and get up to speed with the opposition. The prospect of a 1930s British Civil War in reality would be very much a comedy of errors in some respects and a tragic waste of life in others.
:)
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The American army in the 1930s would have much the same problem of the British Army, what with mixed loyalties, no budget, etc. It was only 100,000 men.
Our Very American Civil war is taking a "Gunfight" campaign system to hopefully generate some interesting games. Our campaign is taking place in the greater Sacramento Valley.
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My opinion of it is a mixed one. It seems to me that the BCW is sort of the Spanish Civil War transplanted a few hundred miles to the north. I must own that I find the real Spanish version much more interesting than its made-up British counterpart. If I ever get bored of painting 28mm African colonial and WWI figures I could see myself getting sucked into SCW. I can't see that ever happening with BCW. It just doesn't appeal. It doesn't elicit an emotional response from me in quite the same way as scenarios based on real situations do. There is too much that is cool that actually really happened to distract me before I will be interested in out-and-out hypotheticals (as opposed to fictional scenarios of real wars, which for some reason I do enjoy). :)
On the other hand what does appeal (but purely from the perspective of a spectator) are all the quirky little units and fun folks can have with it. I'm thinking of such things as Hammers' Cricket-based unit, and the BUF Youth Movement that was done with Perry Mafeking scouts (sorry, I've forgotten who did that, was it AKULA, perhaps?). All that stuff is delightful fun.
One thing that is a sure-fire draw to any new genre is good figures, and this BCW thing certainly does have those in the Musketeer range. They are some of the nicest around in any genre. I am certain that figures like that can draw people into a theme or genre who would never have given it a second thought otherwise. You see great figures and think "Ooh lovely! Gotta get me some of them! Wonder what war they are from..." :)
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Well, we started doing a 1930s American civil war simply because the size and armaments of some of our gangster forces were putting a strain on credibility. In fact the majority of what I use was collected for other games in the 30's, only a few figures were modified specifically for ACW2.
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On the other hand what does appeal (but purely from the perspective of a spectator) are all the quirky little units and fun folks can have with it. I'm thinking of such things as Hammers' Cricket-based unit, and the BUF Youth Movement that was done with Perry Mafeking scouts (sorry, I've forgotten who did that, was it AKULA, perhaps?). All that stuff is delightful fun.
Glad you say so. I have yet to show my Girls of St Trinians, the Sisters of Little Mercy, the Damnation Army and "The Bloomers" (The Womens Corsetry, Brassiere and Miscellaneous Under Garments Industry Workers Militia)
Akula's BUF Jugend are the dogs bollocks, I agree. I will be hard pressed not to copy the idea.
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I have been trying to think of exactly why this appeal.
Thoughts?
no one can tell you your uniform buttons are the wrong color. :)
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Folks on here seem quite paranoid about that lately, judging by some of the threads doing the rounds. Seems a damn queer reason to get into a genre: fear of what others might think. Surely because you are interested in it, would be a much better starting point. Are we all such wimps that we must run to games where we think nobody can tell us we're doing it wrong? Because it is a false security, hiding ourselves away in fiction. Rest assured, whatever you are gaming, from Lord of the Rings to VSF, there will be never be any shortage of people to tell you that that you have got it all entirely wrong and they know better. Those Orcs are the wrong colour, that doesn't look Victorian enough, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. lol lol lol
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I didn't go into the Very American civil war because of the uniforms. I actually got excited about the politics and history, The fact that no one can critize your uniform, is just a bonus.
The more I read about 1933/34 at least in California politics, it seems incredible that some kind of war did not break out.
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I didn't go into the Very American civil war because of the uniforms. I actually got excited about the politics and history, The fact that no one can critize your uniform, is just a bonus.
The more I read about 1933/34 at least in California politics, it seems incredible that some kind of war did not break out.
You could say the same thing about now lol
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The thing is, it is rather easy indeed to criticise the uniforms/equipment in such a conflict! You're setting your game in a historical period, so there will be some historical uniforms involved. This includes irregular units - we can look into what would have been available to the combatants at the time, whether they would have had access to certain vehicles or arms for example.
Whilst Hammer's Cricket team is very cool and fun, it obviously lends nothing to history whatsoever, and to set it in any form of historical context with any seriousness is blatantly absurd; they're wearing inaccurate uniforms!
::)
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they're wearing inaccurate uniforms!
::)
No, they aren't.
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No, they aren't.
Yes, they are.
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We have a disagreement! Its Thunder Dome time! Two men inter! One man leaves! :D
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Yes, they are.
No they aren't.
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My opinion of it is a mixed one. It seems to me that the BCW is sort of the Spanish Civil War transplanted a few hundred miles to the north.
I'll admit I have described it in the past as 'SCW with worse weather'. lol It is quite true, it did start out as that, but it's taken a direction of its own as well and the 'history' of it now shows little comparison to what it was based on. It probably has more in common now with the original English Civil War (in terms of the factions within factions) than it does with the SCW. Comparisons will be drawn, but this will be mainly due to them both existing in the same historical time-frame and environment, with the same 'superpowers' dabbling at the fringes. The big difference is that there is no foreign presence like the Condor Legion or the C.T.V.
I must own that I find the real Spanish version much more interesting than its made-up British counterpart... I can't see that ever happening with BCW. It just doesn't appeal. It doesn't elicit an emotional response from me in quite the same way as scenarios based on real situations do. There is too much that is cool that actually really happened to distract me before I will be interested in out-and-out hypotheticals (as opposed to fictional scenarios of real wars, which for some reason I do enjoy). :)
I agree, I got sucked into the SCW a long while back and have grabbed hold of any book that has appeared related to this (Want to know how the war effected cross-dressers and homosexuals? I'll look it up for you!), including a number of Spanish ones that I really struggle to read as I speak Spanish better than I read it (and I wouldn't class myself as being bilingual by a long shot). I would happily game SCW in its real context and should I get round to actually buying the figures etc to do this, they'll be presented as 'real' SCW figures etc. I do tend to get a bit miffed when folk describe it as a 'war by proxy' or a 'testing ground for WW2' as it was none of these when you do more than just scratch the surface.
However you begin to wonder the what-if's of the SCW; say if France hadn't closed the border and shut off supply when they did, or even the the more improbable; what if other powers (besides the USSR) had actively supported the Republic in the same way as Germany and Italy did? From a gaming perspective this also feeds off the lack of variety of vehicles available to the respective protagonists etc. The result of this being that you develop a desire to expand the equipment and forces historically available.
With VBCW on the other hand, you've got some very interesting stuff that never actually saw battle and the 30's British army was unlike even the BEF of 1940 in many respects. There were more units who were motorcycle equipped, there were the Vickers Medium Tank units, along with some tank types which never saw production (i.e. the Independent). If you add into the mix irregular units with improvised equipment, then it's not hard to see the appeal even if it doesn't grab you yourself.
Certainly it is true that a lot of really cool stuff actually happened, but in relation to WW2 this has been done to death, with the exception perhaps of the early part of the war (which seems unpopular for some reason). You could argue though that these don't reflect any sort of reality, in that the Germans on the tabletop are not subject to the same restrictions and limitations as their real-life counterparts were (numbers, ammo, equipment etc). I'd envisage most gamers with German forces would be packing their toys up before the game got going, mumbling about unfairness and cheating etc, if they had the same stresses and frictions that their real life counterparts faced.
The important thing is, as you say, 'It just doesn't appeal', which is true for all of us, otherwise our lead mountains would be colossal. Despite contributing to the fiction of the period, I can't say it's my cup of tea either. I'd prefer a proper war, say an earlier WW2 (based on the re-militarisation of the Rhineland or something). I'm also looking for something with more depth, I've obviously got a deep desire to escape from something and a need for control in my life, as I'm in the process of creating my own fictional setting for an SCW type conflict (with even better weather), that will allow me to field (within reason) whatever I wish within this setting. I was inspired by Tony Bath's Hyborian campaign many years ago and wanted something similar myself (forget your armies, I play with nations mwahahah) but real wars were too big (even the SCW is immense in its scope), or too limited (e.g. Chaco War), so making my own was the way to go.
However even a fictional setting has resulted in hours of real historical research (that shows little sign of ending any time soon) to see what was going on in similar countries and what stuff was exported by the big players etc. This has also been the case with some of the VBCW guys, some of whom have painstakingly (even obsessively) researched their local area to provide a back drop to their games. It also seems to be the case with the VACW crowd. There are many who don't do this and have been inspired by the figures, or who just want a bit of surreality in comparison to their normal gaming fare. There's room for all. :)
Apologies for running off at the keyboard there folks... ::)
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No they aren't.
Yes, they are.
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No they aren't.
Yes, they are.
You two... report to my room after class... :-I
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there will be never be any shortage of people to tell you that that you have got it all entirely wrong and they know better.
[/quote]
indeed
like - the termite mound is the wrong colour :D :D ;) ;) ;)
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Must admit the the Fantasy Civil war scene has largely left me unmoved. I admire the creativity of some of its contributors, that cricket team is one of the coolest things I've ever seen and incredibly witty but the typical scenarios and their departure from anything remotely likely rather kills it for me.
If I want cool home made armoured vehicles, there's the very real 1930 and 1932 revolutions in Brazil or the very real civil war in Spain if it comes to that. If I want a setting for Vickers Medium tanks, there's the crisis over the Italian invasion of Ethiopia, to provide me with a vaguely likely prospect and then you get to field cool looking Italian Askari.
Then there's the issue of civil wars. On the whole they tend to be a damn sight more unpleasant, if pleasant can be considered appropriate in context, than wars fought against external foes. can't bear the thought of putting Mosleyites on a table.
Like BoB, it has been a boon for the historical gamer though. Look at all the nice new toys it has produced. Still I'm not entirely adverse to fantasy, I've long wanted to do a Plan Red war between Britain and the US, if only to justify fielding the the Experimental Mechanised Force and blitzing the Yanks with Vickers Mediums and Carden Lloyds.
By the by, motorcycles saw quite a lot of service in the UK in 1940. There was a least one entire battalion so equipped with the BEF.
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Yes, they are.
No, they are not!
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You two... report to my room after class... :-I
Yes, Mrs Hale. Sorry Mr. Hale.
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Carlos- Mosleyites on the table are great, I take great joy in shooting them in every game :)
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I'd be the last person, I hope, to have anything to do with VBCW, if it was pro-Mosley. It ain't, don't worry.
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I'd be the last person, I hope, to have anything to do with VBCW, if it was pro-Mosley. It ain't, don't worry.
Likewise. They also seem to be an unpopular faction to game with, folks tend to go for the 'Royalists'. That being said, every scenario needs its bad guys and let's face it, we wouldn't tar every WW2 gamer that fields an SS force as a Nazi.
I can't say I subscribe to the BUF being a major player either personally. While I can see a pseudo-fascist conservative government in power, the BUF were never, even at their peak, popular enough to gain the support sufficient for their role in VBCW. I'd also prefer to do what others have done and use the Musketeer figures for a 'Sealion' scenario too, with the 'Militia' figures as un-uniformed LDV and the BUF figures as collaborating auxiliaries (there would be some sell-outs after all if we're honest). I also have to admit that I'd prefer a Britain versus France scenario for the late '30s in any case.
If I want a setting for Vickers Medium tanks, there's the crisis over the Italian invasion of Ethiopia, to provide me with a vaguely likely prospect and then you get to field cool looking Italian Askari.
Yes, while writing the piece on Egypt I discovered that the Italians had managed to move ten divisions up to the Libyan/Egyptian Border just in case Britain reacted unfavourably to their invasion of Abyssinia. The British were oblivious to this.
By the by, motorcycles saw quite a lot of service in the UK in 1940. There was a least one entire battalion so equipped with the BEF.
There were in theory two, but one ended up without their motorcycles due to a mix-up. The BEF had withdrawn from the continent before they were re-united with them.
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I'd be the last person, I hope, to have anything to do with VBCW, if it was pro-Mosley. It ain't, don't worry.
Its funny that a faction, like the SS, is in someway considered cool due to the pure evilness (no, I won't start a debate about the SS and bla bla), and of course, the black uniforms and tight boots.
However, noone wishes to play them as they might be taken for being a nazi. Can't really say that people get blamed for being communists when the choose to paint and collect a red force for the RCW.
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If I ever include any 'bad guys', it'll be Roderick Spode and his fantastic Black Shorts, not Mosley and his Black Shirts. lol
I do like the miniatures for the BUF, though. Although that's like people admiring the Germans from WW2 and the Empire from Star Wars for their style. They're evil, but damn, they look snazzy.
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For the record, I haven't and I'm not suggesting that fielding the BUF suggests their owner harbours fascist sympathies,.I think former ownership of a certain range of 28mm Elizabethan miniatures is the only reliable guide to that these days or so I'm told. ;)
Yes, we are all fond of fielding baddies in our games and we all turn a blind eye to some of the horrors of our lead heroes historical prototypes. I must say I've yet to see any RCW enthusiast getting partiularly tumescent over the ragbag uniforms and mix and match kit of the average Bolshevik, quite unlike some gamers I have seen who get all misty eyed at the mention of runes, peadot smocks and Tiger tanks.
Matter of taste and for me Oswald, Unity Mitford & Co don't appeal. I remember passing a very pleasant afternoon some years ago talking to an elderly lady who described beating up blackshirts in Cable Street and then to my great amusement she confessed to having danced with William Joyce on another occasion.
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If I ever include any 'bad guys', it'll be Roderick Spode and his fantastic Black Shorts,
Definitely!
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We just did a game with American "Nationalists" (Fascists), against American Communists, with me fielding the communists.
As far as I am concerned, if this were a real war, every casualty would be a win for America.
The problem for gamers it is hard to get modivated to paint a force for moderation. The radicals are easier to see what they are fighting for, even if you don't agree politically.
In the ACW2 games the factions belong to one of 3 movements, the Communists, the Nationalists or the "Constitutionalists." The later are moderates or otherwise simply oppose the estremist views of the other movements. It is hard to come up with slogans for them, ,,,,
EXTREME MODERATION!!!
DEATH TO ZEALOTRY!!!
See what I mean.
Oh and happy Independance day to my fellow Americans.
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the only thing that is keeping me from getting really big into American Civil war 2 is waiting for the book. Once it is out I can get the other guys in my group interested.
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In the ACW2 games the factions belong to one of 3 movements, the Communists, the Nationalists or the "Constitutionalists." The later are moderates or otherwise simply oppose the estremist views of the other movements. It is hard to come up with slogans for them, ,,,,
EXTREME MODERATION!!!
DEATH TO ZEALOTRY!!!
See what I mean.
How about; 'To Each His Own' 'Life, Liberty & Freedom' 'Democracy, Liberty & Progress' 'Fascism is not Patriotism' '1st Amendment'
:)
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You are missing ' I Hunt and I Vote' and 'I'm With Stupid'. The other side is a bit trickier. Try painting 'This Machine Kills Fascists' on a 28mm guitar. ;)
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How about; 'To Each His Own' 'Life, Liberty & Freedom' 'Democracy, Liberty & Progress' 'Fascism is not Patriotism' '1st Amendment'
:)
Thanks, I was trying to think of slogans to put up, these will come in handy.
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Just to come back to original subject for a moment- every game needs baddies as most of you observed, actually in our VBCW group few of us are militant anti-fascists and others are definitely of anti-fascists sympathies, however they still play BUF, simply because we see them fitting in that game perfectly. Just like playing SS or other German troops in WWII... Would BUF be playing minor role in that kind of alternative history? I am afraid they would be playing very big role, with lots of people joining them because they would be in power (never underestimate cowardice of people) and also lets be honest, fascism has tremendous growing potential and rises its ugly head very quickly.
I just love that game, even though I am not British.
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Just to come back to original subject for a moment- every game needs baddies as most of you observed, actually in our VBCW group few of us are militant anti-fascists and others are definitely of anti-fascists sympathies, however they still play BUF, simply because we see them fitting in that game perfectly. Just like playing SS or other German troops in WWII... Would BUF be playing minor role in that kind of alternative history? I am afraid they would be playing very big role, with lots of people joining them because they would be in power (never underestimate cowardice of people) and also lets be honest, fascism has tremendous growing potential and rises its ugly head very quickly.
I just love that game, even though I am not British.
Right for a while it looked like all of Europe was going over to Fascism. It defiantly has its appeal. Lots of groups I have noticed were built on national or ethnic pride and that can be a powerful thing.
Also lets not forget They usually have the best uniforms :P
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How about; 'To Each His Own' 'Life, Liberty & Freedom' 'Democracy, Liberty & Progress' 'Fascism is not Patriotism' '1st Amendment'
:)
"We shall sacrifice our lives at the Altar of Moderation!"
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LOL lol
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How about; 'To Each His Own' 'Life, Liberty & Freedom' 'Democracy, Liberty & Progress' 'Fascism is not Patriotism' '1st Amendment'
:)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2019/2071702334_eb7647218c.jpg)
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Careful now.
:)
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lol
More religious I suppose, but I always liked "The Meek Will Inherit! (if it's ok with you?)"
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"We shall sacrifice our lives at the Altar of Moderation!"
Maximum Success or a Reasonable Alternative.
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Maybe it should be what was said when Lady Godiva took her famous ride,
HURRAH FOR OUR SIDE!!!!
lol :D
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"Can't we all just get along"
... there's the other Father Ted one too "Careful Now"
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To quote Billy Bragg,
Sweet moderation,
Heart of this nation.
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Take a leaf from Jaroslav Hacek, author of The Good Soldier Svejk and have as one of your factions 'The Party for Moderate Reform Within the Confines of the Law'. That was the name of the political party he founded after discovering that meetings of political parties weren't subject to the early closing stipulated in wartime Austro-Hungarian licensing laws. Brilliant man Hacek and very fond of a drink.
Now for a 'real' very civil war and if you've ever read Peter Flemings' Brazilian Adventure, you'll see the gaming potential, adventurers, lost explorers, the mysterious city of 'Z' and a civil war to boot. Bombing São Paulo has always been on my 'to do' list. ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkVYG-hdCeo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h86Og7NafU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHdaHZ-Y-gI&feature=related
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And what's a civil war without clunky but cool homemade armoured cars and armoured trains?
http://www.defesanet.com.br/rodas/
http://peregrinacultural.wordpress.com/2008/08/06/
http://www.defesanet.com.br/rv/blindados/index.htm
http://www.ecsbdefesa.com.br/arq/Art%209.htm
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very interesting
thx for the links
did I seriously just see an armoured train?
amazing...
when one sees how people were ready to fight for their freedom in the Interwar period, the question has to come to mind why people let themselves get kicked around like this these days....
could this also be an appeal to game X-CW games?
could anyone tell what this is??
(http://www.defesanet.com.br/imagens/defesanet/rv/rodas/foto7.jpg)
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You did. Funnily enough there was probably more rail line in the 1930s than there is now. Passenger services are few and far between outside of metro areas and in some cases..... It's popularly believed that São Paulo's metro may be the longest in the world, if nothing else the money trail goes as far as Switzerland. ;)
Salvador has been waiting 10 years and will wait at least another 10 for it's metro, popularly dubbed the 'montanha russa' or roller coaster. It will go nowhere, the stations lack toilets and will take another several billion to complete the first half. The trains are currently rusting at the port costing millions in storage fees Fortunately the exhorbitant projected fare prices mean that nobody will use it, so no real harm I suppose. ;D
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Take a leaf from Jaroslav Hacek, author of The Good Soldier Svejk and have as one of your factions 'The Party for Moderate Reform Within the Confines of the Law'. That was the name of the political party he founded after discovering that meetings of political parties weren't subject to the early closing stipulated in wartime Austro-Hungarian licensing laws. Brilliant man Hacek and very fond of a drink.
Now for a 'real' very civil war and if you've ever read Peter Flemings' Brazilian Adventure, you'll see the gaming potential, adventurers, lost explorers, the mysterious city of 'Z' and a civil war to boot. Bombing São Paulo has always been on my 'to do' list. ;)
Just orderd the lost city of Z and P Flemings brazilian adventure. Any good english sites on the Rev war?
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could anyone tell what this is??
It's a Wilton-Fijenoord armoured car. IIRc the Dutch sold a few around the world.
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thx
I just found some Info
apparently three were built in 1933 and 2 were sent to Java, but were returned because they were too heavy, and then sold to Brazil
the third was used in NL, captured by the Germans and still in use '45 in Berlin
and also serving as a model for a german built Krupp riot control car of similar appearance
if it is true..
apparently, it could discharge electrical shocks over the hull...
and, I could bet my ass if the design of the light german scout car 222 did not have anything to do with it....
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Just orderd the lost city of Z and P Flemings brazilian adventure. Any good english sites on the Rev war?
Never seen any but there is a good book in English on the Brazilian military that gives some coverage. Soldiers of the Pátria: A History of the Brazilian Army, 1889-1937 by Frank D. McCann. Not sure if the English version is currently in print but I've seen recent pressings of the Portuguese version Soldados da Pátria in bookstores. Naturally enough there re quite a few Brazilian sources. If you google Revolução Constitucionalista or Guerra Paulista you'll get a few hits.
Interesting as the '32 revolution is, there are equally fascinating periods of Brazilian history. I've never been sure why Mao's peregrination through China is regarded as the 'long march'. Compared to the Coluna Prestes march across Brazil it's a mere stroll in the park. If colonial era civils wars are your thing try googling Canudos War or better still get yourself a copy of Levine's Vale of Tears. Fascinating and quite a bizarre war. There's a good doco and a so-so ish film on that one.
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I guess Mao is a better spin doctor. i will look to see what I can find, with the info you gave me. Thanks Carlos.