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Miniatures Adventure => Pikes, Muskets and Flouncy Shirts => Topic started by: traveller on July 14, 2010, 11:43:50 AM

Title: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: traveller on July 14, 2010, 11:43:50 AM
I made an excavation of the lead pile and found some Foundry Conquistador figures. I cannot bring myself to paint up any Astecs or similar figures in bright coloured silly costumes, i therefore thought I would find other work for these brigands. Does anyone game the early Spanish/Portugese colonization of Africa? I would assume the earliest potential conflict being Moroccko or neighbouring states, any advice regarding their dress in the 15-16th century? Any help much appreciated.
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: Kingscarbine on July 14, 2010, 12:13:55 PM
Lots of scenario material. I'll give you some links to help you on your way:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Kongo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Mutapa
http://www.rhodesia.nl/theal_3_202.htm
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: Totleben on July 14, 2010, 12:26:00 PM
There many were portugese avtivities and settlements in this period in east Africa, around the Persian Gulf and in India after the journey of Vasco da Gama.
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: traveller on July 14, 2010, 12:26:00 PM
Kingscarbine,

most helpful. I tried to search for conquistadors in Africa but only black conquistadors in South America came up. Your links suggests a good marriage between Foundry Conquistadors and Darkest Africa. I wonder if some Artizan Moors could be pressed into service for North Africa?
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: Totleben on July 14, 2010, 12:46:18 PM
and this battle in 1578 [wiki]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ksar_El_Kebir[/wiki]

and [wiki]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_of_Ormuz_(1507)[/wiki]

Thank you for the inspiration
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: traveller on July 14, 2010, 02:49:33 PM
Totleben,

cool stuff! now it all comes together, although it is the Portugese rather than the Spanish.

Many thanks!
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: bc99 on July 14, 2010, 04:40:34 PM
I'd second the Portuguese connection! How about stranded Portuguese sailors vs. West African cannibals? I've thought about this many times as well, and it's a good way to "recycle" your Darkest Africa minis for another genre.
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: Kingscarbine on July 14, 2010, 04:49:08 PM
Foundry's Caribbean Renegades make excellent Auxiliaries.
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: Conquistador on July 14, 2010, 05:05:08 PM
Depending on how stretchable  :o the history is for you, you could have Spanish "poaching" off Portuguese claims.   ;)

Certainly honor would have prevented such acts, I am sure.   ::)

Gracias,

Glenn
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: Kingscarbine on July 14, 2010, 05:27:45 PM
Depending on how stretchable  :o the history is for you, you could have Spanish "poaching" off Portuguese claims.   ;)

Certainly honor would have prevented such acts, I am sure.   ::)

Gracias,

Glenn


They actually did in the Philipines and Indonesia :D

Almost forgot. For Africa here are links to a couple of articles I wrote some years ago:
http://soldadopratico.blogspot.com/2005/12/kongo-of-darkness.html
http://soldadopratico.blogspot.com/2005/12/armies-of-16th-century-central-west.html

Cheers,

Nuno
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: Arthadan on July 16, 2010, 06:11:15 PM
Quote
According to a legend in 1471 by order of Henry IV King of Castille, called the Impotent, set out one expedition to Africa, beyond the land of the Moors.
The secret aim of this expedition was to hunt a unicorn, since it was assumed that the horn of this mythological creature could increase the virility of the king.
In 1946 the results of the exhumation of the corpse of Henry IV alongside the king's mummified remains found a gray spindle object, which was proved to be a fragment of African rhino horn.

So begins and ends the novel "In Search of the Unicorn" by Juan Eslava Galan awarderd Planeta Prize in 1987. No idea if it's published in Shakespeare's language.
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: carlos marighela on July 16, 2010, 06:51:50 PM
Kingscarbine,

most helpful. I tried to search for conquistadors in Africa but only black conquistadors in South America came up. Your links suggests a good marriage between Foundry Conquistadors and Darkest Africa. I wonder if some Artizan Moors could be pressed into service for North Africa?

Artizan moors are what I will be using, along with Cannon Fodder and Eureka versions, for Tangier in the late 17thC. Not a lot of costume change over the period, so using them for Ceuta against the Portuguese is entirely appropriate. Eureka also produce 'Turkish Pirates' which are useful as North African corsairs and for Oman and the Gulf states.

Now if you can find a figure with an appropriately large head, you can have it as your commander and name him Dom Cristiano. You can even have a mini-me in the form of Dom Cristiano Jnr these days.
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: traveller on July 16, 2010, 06:53:51 PM
So begins and ends the novel "In Search of the Unicorn" by Juan Eslava Galan awarderd Planeta Prize in 1987. No idea if it's published in Shakespeare's language.

This gets better and better, now we are entering the Fantasy genre  :)

Thanks for this interesting post!
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: GamesPoet on February 02, 2017, 03:33:54 PM
Eureka makes some nice Spanish and Portugese figures!
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: Inkpaduta on February 02, 2017, 05:58:23 PM
I know you asked for Africa but, if I may, don't forget about Asia.
Spanish fighting in the Philippines against natives, moros ect. would
be quite interesting.
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: Captain Blood on February 02, 2017, 06:26:49 PM
I'm not sure he's still looking for answers on this seven years after asking the question...  ::)

(He might be, of course... But it seems unlikely... )

Do, please, think carefully about whether you really need to reply to / resurrect a post from seven years ago... We don't have forum rules concerning threadomancy, and occasionally, it is warranted. But usually it's not!
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: Poiter50 on February 03, 2017, 12:12:16 AM
Or even Indonesia. I recall an article some years back on the discovery of a Spanish fort in some remote part of Indonesia.

I know you asked for Africa but, if I may, don't forget about Asia.
Spanish fighting in the Philippines against natives, moros ect. would
be quite interesting.
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: zippyfusenet on February 03, 2017, 01:25:53 AM
Captain, I missed this thread in 2010 and I'm enjoying its revival. I hope you'll indulge us.

I've long been interested in the Age of Exploration and Conquest, with emphasis on the Spanish entradas to the Mississippian southeast and the Puebloan and Caddoan southwest, but with interests world-wide. One day I might build miniatures for Africa North, West and East, for South Asia and East Indies. A long time ago I mined out the O Soldado Practico site that Kingscarbine/Nuno created and linked to above. There was a load of excellent material on the Portuguese Empire, especially in the time of its expansion and greatest extent. Unfortunately, it looks like that blog is gone...Bring it back, Nuno?

Back in the '90s a talented young gamer named Trevor Brabyn created a website with some excellent scenarios for Conquistadors in Africa and the East, and some creative rule sets for Age of Discovery. Trevor has moved on, but is so generous as to keep his old website online, and it's still worth a look:

http://home.earthlink.net/~cyberkiwi/soldiers/

Robert Silverberg, the science fiction writer, wrote an historical novel Lord of Darkness, whose protagonist is an English buccaneer adrift in the 17th century Portuguese Empire, mostly in West Africa. It's a good read, full of atmosphere and background, and could spark some game scenarios:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1705137.Lord_of_Darkness

That's what I have to share.
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: Leigh Metford on February 03, 2017, 05:17:45 AM
The Spice Islands of the East Indies form an excellent setting for getting extra value out of conquistadors and figures intended for other conflicts. Along with Spanish and Portuguese you can include local native headhunters, Malays, and Muslim traders.

If you have the Old Glory Pirate range cannibals or South American Indians you have the headhunters (OG even makes war canoes), Moros can be used as Malays, and a variety of Indian and Arab types, from Crusades (e.g. archers), Indian Mutiny, and Darkest Africa ranges can be used to represent the traders and their mercenary troops.
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: GamesPoet on February 03, 2017, 05:18:15 AM
This era has always fascinated me since I was a youngster, and it is the first thread I've seen anywhere regarding it.  Not that they don't exist elsewhere, of course.

Anyway, fascinating stuff here!

By the way, I mentioned the Eureka figures, and I've begun picking up packs of them for use with these kinds of historical fights in mind.  Excellent figures, and I look forward to painting and playing with thme.
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: traveller on February 03, 2017, 04:46:53 PM
I'm not sure he's still looking for answers on this seven years after asking the question...  ::)

(He might be, of course... But it seems unlikely... )

Do, please, think carefully about whether you really need to reply to / resurrect a post from seven years ago... We don't have forum rules concerning threadomancy, and occasionally, it is warranted. But usually it's not!

Spot on Captain  :D

but by all means please continue the discussion ;)
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: TheBlackCrane on February 03, 2017, 04:55:39 PM
Also not having seen this thread before I shall throw in my tuppence worth by way of a book recommendation.

'The Last Crusaders' by Barnaby Rogerson, is brilliant for this period. It's also one of the best histories I've ever read in general. Go buy it.

Seriously, go, buy it now, you won't regret it  :D
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: Metternich on February 10, 2017, 01:49:33 AM
Glad to see this thread.  Excellent theater for use of the Eureka Portuguese Conquistadors, who go very well with Foundry's.  And Eureka's range includes Mamalucos (African slave soldiers) wearing cast-off bits of Portuguese clothing.
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: GamesPoet on February 10, 2017, 07:03:48 PM
Eureka has both Spanish and Portuguese Conquistadores.  Perhaps some what interchangeable?
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: zippyfusenet on February 11, 2017, 01:05:43 AM
The Eureka Portuguese are more raggedy than most Spanish. Not too much armor, slouch hats instead of helmets, some with bare legs and in sandals. They look like they've been sloshing through swamps for too long, feverish and dysenteric, searching for El Dorado, or at least a cornfield to loot. I like 'em.
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: Lowtardog on February 11, 2017, 11:08:30 AM
The foundry swashbucklers fit in well with the Eureka Portuguese too as the Portuguese are mid to late 16th century where as the conquistadors are early 1520s
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: warrenpeace on February 11, 2017, 06:02:30 PM
So, traveller, since this thread has been resurrected after 7 years, what have you done with your conquistador figures? Did you engage them in Africa?

I'm thinking about painting up mine and using them in Japan, China, India, and the Persian Gulf, as well as Africa.
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: carlos marighela on February 11, 2017, 07:43:16 PM
If you have sufficient figures you can fight the French over France Antarctique. Colourful allies and the world's most beautiful setting.
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: traveller on February 11, 2017, 10:29:22 PM
So, traveller, since this thread has been resurrected after 7 years, what have you done with your conquistador figures? Did you engage them in Africa?

I'm thinking about painting up mine and using them in Japan, China, India, and the Persian Gulf, as well as Africa.

Well....to be honest....the lead pile have grown but they have not yet been deployed. I have all the Foundry and Eureka stuff lined up together with some literature but my plan was to make a setup for Spanish fighting the Barbay corsairs in Algeria. However, projects like the sack of Rome 1527 and Siege of Malta 1565 came in the way together with other projects. We wargamers are so easily led astray... ;)
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: GamesPoet on February 13, 2017, 01:38:13 AM
The foundry swashbucklers fit in well with the Eureka Portuguese too as the Portuguese are mid to late 16th century where as the conquistadors are early 1520s
The Eureka Portuguese are more raggedy than most Spanish. Not too much armor, slouch hats instead of helmets, some with bare legs and in sandals. They look like they've been sloshing through swamps for too long, feverish and dysenteric, searching for El Dorado, or at least a cornfield to loot. I like 'em.
Good to know!  I'll take a closer look, although believe I only have some of the Spanish.
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: faethor1204 on February 14, 2017, 06:38:27 PM
fantastic thread so glad to see other like minded people thinking of these periods and uses of figures .i myself am considering  operations in Africa especially the later battle of the three kings in 1578.
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: Byblos on February 15, 2017, 10:22:59 AM
This Osprey could be very interesting !

(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/osprey10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1791)
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: Byblos on February 15, 2017, 10:33:02 AM
Some drawings of cities visited by Portugueses

(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/aden10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1796)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/calicu10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1793)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/canano10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1792)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/ceylan10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1794)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/jeddah10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1795)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/mallac10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1798)
(Malacca)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/ormuz10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1797)

These are cities of Red sea coasts and West indies ...
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: Byblos on February 15, 2017, 10:39:36 AM
City of Diu :

(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/diu610.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1804)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/diu10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1803)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/diu210.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1800)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/diu310.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1805)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/diu410.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1802)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/diu510.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1801)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/diu_1510.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1799)

Some photos :

(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/diu_ca11.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1808)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/diu_ca10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1807)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/diu_po10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1806)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/diu_po11.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1809)

And a gate of Malacca :

(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/malacc10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1810)

If you could read French language , there is some very interesting books on the Portuguese empire , if you're interesting i could show you these books (i have a lot of these books) (There is some very good specialists in France about the Portuguese empire)
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: carlos marighela on February 15, 2017, 10:50:26 AM
This Osprey could be very interesting !

(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/osprey10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1791)

Sadly, it's not. In fact it's decidedly second rate. If you want something more substantial in English try C.R. Boxer's The Portuguese Seaborne Empire.
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: Byblos on February 15, 2017, 11:10:47 AM
The portuguese , to fight pirates , used theirs "caravelles" , and for the spices and cie the used large carracks ...

There is only one model kit for 28mm scale : the Caracca Atlantica from Mamoli (Its a carrack from the middle of XVI th century)

(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/caraqu10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1814)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/mv21a10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1811)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/mv21b10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1813)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/mv21p10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1812)

(I'm lucky enought to fond one for 80 euros - instead of 250 euros + / The photos are not mine but Mamoli's , the mine is in her box)

This is for large carracks , for smallest caracks you can use Santa maria models :

Amati
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/amat1410.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1815)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/amati_10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1816)

Artesiana latina :
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/santa_10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1817)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/arti2210.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1818)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/arti2211.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1819)

Mamoli :
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/mv4210.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1821)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/mv42p10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1820)

For the "caravelles" , you can use easily models of Nina and Pinta ( 1/50e or 1/65 scale)

(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/amat1411.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1822)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/pinta_10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1824)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/nina_a10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1823)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/mantua10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1828)
(Artesiana latina , Mamoli , Mantua)

The Red sea and West indies ports are full of Chinese junks and Arabs Dhows/Sambuks , there is some models at the right scales :

Artesiana latina :
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/red-dr10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1825)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/sultan10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1826)

Corel:
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/corel-10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1827)

With RAFM you could find usefu l guns :

(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/rafm0010.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1829)

What is very interesting with the Portuguese in Red sea or West indies , it's the melting of some very inspiring possibilities : a lot of differents ships (Arabs Dhows , Chinese junks , Portuguese caracks and caravelles) , a lot of civilizations (Arabs , Portuguese , Turks , Indus , Chinese and a lot of asiatics) , some very inspiring "paysages" and cities , fortifications , etc ...

Hope this could help/inspire ...





Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: Byblos on February 15, 2017, 11:16:20 AM
For my project , i'm going to built a XVI th century fortress (A canon tower like those of Diu ...)

(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/dsc_0011.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1831)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/dsc_0010.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1830)
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/13/09/54/58/dsc_0012.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13095458/1832)

But my priority is RCW and medieval project , so i slowly but surely buy ships and minies for this Portuguese empire project that will be completed in some years ...
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: zippyfusenet on February 15, 2017, 11:35:42 AM
"Sadly, it's not. In fact it's decidedly second rate."

To tell the truth, I don't read Osprey MAA for the potted history, but for the pretty pictures. I hope this title has some, with useful notes for the plates. I agree that Barker wrote a very good history.

Byblos, that's an impressive collection of drawings, photos and models, thanks for sharing. I notice that both in the photos and as modeled, the stone parapets on the masonry cannon towers are surprisingly thin. They look like they'd be not only useless but actually harmful, shattering into stone shrapnel under cannon fire. Any thoughts on this?
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: Byblos on February 15, 2017, 11:42:37 AM
Byblos, that's an impressive collection of drawings, photos and models, thanks for sharing. I notice that both in the photos and as modeled, the stone parapets on the masonry cannon towers are surprisingly thin. They look like they'd be not only useless but actually harmful, shattering into stone shrapnel under cannon fire. Any thoughts on this?

Exact, i'm not a specialist but from what i read , Portuguese don't fear really powerful opponents in their Empire and the Indus or Arabs don't have very powerful ships or powerful artillery ... So they don't need very powerful fortification ! And to attack their fortifications , one's will need to win against their navy before  :D
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: SteveBurt on February 15, 2017, 11:44:08 AM
This sort of ship would be suitable:
(http://i.imgur.com/2nOca0X.jpg)
Title: Re: Conquistadors in Africa?
Post by: GamesPoet on February 15, 2017, 01:43:58 PM
Thanks for all the photos, and the reading recommendations!