Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: gloriousbattle on 06 August 2010, 03:16:12 AM
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This cute lil fella
(http://www.reapermini.com/misc/20018.jpg)
is a "Great Worm" (wink, nudge) from Reaper Minis. Height is rather meaningless with something this twisty, but it stands maybe 2 1/2" off the tabletop, which translates into 24' or so in 15mm scale (though the figure is meant to be a 25mm scale D&D purple worm).
Anyway, I think it looks great as a sandworm.
So...
What would you do for 15mm:
Fremen
Sardaukar
Harkonnens
Atreides
ornithopters
and anything else with a good "Dune feel".
I have a few ideas:
Paul Atreides? http://www.15mm.co.uk/105.htm
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen, maybe with the addition of a sword? http://www.15mm.co.uk/110.htm
Don't know how I'd do the Baron, other than maybe a sphere with red hair.
As to the basic troopers, I was thinking about going quite cheap, these may look like an odd addition, but the orcs from Risk LOTR (Hasbro) make nice futuristic blade and shield men, if the helmet is repainted into something "spacey". I am going to give this a try over the weekend, and hopefully upload some photos.
Anyway, I'd love to hear other ideas.
The spice must flow.
(http://webzoom.freewebs.com/tolkienboardgamecollecting/LOTR%20Risk%20Pieces.jpg)
(second figures from left, front and back rows)
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The interesting thing about Dune is how divided the fan base can get over things like how it's supposed to look. Seems like there's a perpetual argument over which, if any, movie "got it right", and what bits of which installments are legitimate.
Actually, now that I think about it, this is true of pretty much every franchise. Batman fans and Star Trek fans have the same arguments.
Personally, I'm of the view that the more versions there are to choose from, the better the odds of there being something for everyone, and no version is erased by the existence of another, so I'm always very interested to see new interpretations, whether my own tastes have already been satisfied or not (which they haven't entirely been yet, as far as Dune's concerned).
I'm not very familiar with the 15mm stuff out there, but I certainly could find/remember some 28mm stuff that would fit the bill for me.
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The interesting thing about Dune is how divided the fan base can get over things like how it's supposed to look. Seems like there's a perpetual argument over which, if any, movie "got it right", and what bits of which installments are legitimate.
Usually, when I hear fanboys arguing about stuff like that, I am laughing in my sleeve, but, I have to confess, that where this milieu is concerned, I am one of the screaming fanboys.
How many versions of Dune have their been, and all of them using guns. GUNS WERE NOT A PART OF ORIGINAL DUNE! The Holtzman shield made both projectile and energy weapons useless, and EVERYBODY FOUGHT WITH BLADES. Granted, in the very late books of the series, this changed, but in the original 3 novels, all infantry was sword and shield armed.
Sorry, just my pet peeve. >:(
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Looking forward to seeing you get this going. Dune in 15mm is cool.
I have some GZG and some Rebel Minis that would work in 15mm for some characters, will try to determine what range and get you links(Cacique sent them to me as a gift)
Also, maybe some colonist types from QRF?
What about terrain in 15mm?
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You HAVE to do a spice harvester....
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How many versions of Dune have their been, and all of them using guns. GUNS WERE NOT A PART OF ORIGINAL DUNE! The Holtzman shield made both projectile and energy weapons useless, and EVERYBODY FOUGHT WITH BLADES. Granted, in the very late books of the series, this changed, but in the original 3 novels, all infantry was sword and shield armed.
The PC games and the great movie adaption did feature fire arms and it looked great, so my Dune project will also ignore this ;)
Mainly because it never made much sense for me, all great houses have the money to give every single soldier a personal shield ? A shot from a tank is not enough to penetrate the shield or kill the wearer ? The Atreides were on Arrakis long enough, but never thought about their shields being dangerous there (worm killing frenzy) ?
I think Herbert just wanted to have a heroic, blade against blade, duel-like atmosphere for his battles. He never made much effort to explain why this is as such in his universe, except that it has personal shields.
So I say go ahead and use firearms, because on Arrakis you won't find that many shield and because pure close combat is lame for a tabletop.
Nice worm
http://pardulon-models.com/product_info.php/info/p17_Mutierte-Sandwuermer.html
Irregular Miniatures has a complete 6mm worm, that is big enough for a baby worm and is cheap.
My old thread, there you will find a lot of ideas for the miniatures
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=19585.0
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How many versions of Dune have their been, and all of them using guns. GUNS WERE NOT A PART OF ORIGINAL DUNE! The Holtzman shield made both projectile and energy weapons useless, and EVERYBODY FOUGHT WITH BLADES. Granted, in the very late books of the series, this changed, but in the original 3 novels, all infantry was sword and shield armed.
I'm just re-reading all the books right now. The first book mentions pellet pistols and rifles on the person of just about every Atreides guard/soldier who is described by Herbert in the text. It was Lasers specifically that produced the Holzmann effect. But, projectile weapons are common throughout the books and the Fremen made extensive use of maula pistols in the original books. No doubt Herbert wanted to emphasize the romanticism of fighting with swords/blades, but guns do appear frequently.
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The PC games and the great movie adaption did feature fire arms and it looked great, so my Dune project will also ignore this ;)
Heretic! :-[
Mainly because it never made much sense for me, all great houses have the money to give every single soldier a personal shield ? A shot from a tank is not enough to penetrate the shield or kill the wearer ? The Atreides were on Arrakis long enough, but never thought about their shields being dangerous there (worm killing frenzy) ?
I think Herbert just wanted to have a heroic, blade against blade, duel-like atmosphere for his battles. He never made much effort to explain why this is as such in his universe, except that it has personal shields.
Sure he did, but that was one of the central points of the series. It's your game, and you can do what you want, but why does everybody feel comfortable with this stuff in Dune? If somebody gave Gandalf a .45, everybody would howl.
My old thread, there you will find a lot of ideas for the miniatures
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=19585.0
Thanks, I'll check it out!
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I'm just re-reading all the books right now. The first book mentions pellet pistols and rifles on the person of just about every Atreides guard/soldier who is described by Herbert in the text. It was Lasers specifically that produced the Holzmann effect. But, projectile weapons are common throughout the books and the Fremen made extensive use of maula pistols in the original books. No doubt Herbert wanted to emphasize the romanticism of fighting with swords/blades, but guns do appear frequently.
No. If you read it more closely, you'll see that projectile weapons did exist, but they were assassin's weapons, to the extent that they were used at all. They were simply ineffective against the Holtzman Shield, though they did not result in the catastrophic explosion that took place when a laser hit a shield.
When the Harkonnens retake Arrakis, they use artillery, but this is considered a very odd tactic, and is effective only because the Atreides troops retreated into caves, and the Harkonnen artillery collapsed the caves over their heads.
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Sure he did, but that was one of the central points of the series. It's your game, and you can do what you want, but why does everybody feel comfortable with this stuff in Dune? If somebody gave Gandalf a .45, everybody would howl.
Your example at the end made my laugh ;)
I agree that maybe guns shouldn't be used if you want it to be 100% correct. Still some want it that way, some don't. I for example am glad that e.g. the Lord of the Rings movies didn't follow the books completely.
Why should sword fighting be a central point of Dune ? Herbert just liked the idea of sword fighting, nothing more.
As for a tabletop, no guns and no tanks (attack vehicles in general) would make quite a boring game.
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No. If you read it more closely, you'll see that projectile weapons did exist, but they were assassin's weapons, to the extent that they were used at all. They were simply ineffective against the Holtzman Shield, though they did not result in the catastrophic explosion that took place when a laser hit a shield.
When the Harkonnens retake Arrakis, they use artillery, but this is considered a very odd tactic, and is effective only because the Atreides troops retreated into caves, and the Harkonnen artillery collapsed the caves over their heads.
Mmm, this is a half truth, I think. Guns were uncommon weapons in most parts of the settled universe due to the reasons listed, but Arrakis was a special case because of the worms. Shields weren't used on Arrakis outside of the capitol city, because they produced some kind of vibration or EM effect that irritated the worms, casing them to seek out and attack the shield bearer. This meant that outside the protection of Arrakeen's natural rock walls, all bets were off, and always had been.
Maula pistols were only considered assasins' weapons by the nobles. Fremen carried Maula pistols regularly, and they didn't hesitate in using them. Their honor code made killing with a knife more impressive and therefore more desirable, but it didn't appear to actually stigmatize killing with a gun at all. The standoff when Paul and Jessica first meet the Fremen after escaping the Harkonnens showcases this pretty well IMO. Fremen honor conventions favored brutal practicality in most respects.
The Saurdukar used lasguns with abandon during their invasion, and later during their pogrom against the Fremen, believing no one would be shielded... 'till someone dropped an empty shield belt from an aircraft into he middle of a major firefight. Kind of a memorable moment.
By all appearances Arrakis was the exception to the rule. An exception The Fremen had been living with for millennia, and which both the Saurdukar and the Baron had been planning in advance to exploit. The Baron's use of artillery was only surprising to nobles used to taking the standards of other worlds for granted.
If you want your version to be gun free, then absolutely go for it. I do think you're projecting a bit when it comes to the source material, though.
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Your example at the end made my laugh ;)
Always a good result. :D
Why should sword fighting be a central point of Dune ? Herbert just liked the idea of sword fighting, nothing more.
It's more important than it might seem. Since, despite all the technology that exists, warfare is very low-tech, the prowess of individual soldiers becomes far more important.
Thus, the Sardaukar are king of the walk, and terrorize the galaxy, until Muad'dib's Fremen legions (who are even tougher) come to the fore. With more technology on the battlefield, this difference in troop quality becomes less important. No matter how tough a Sardaukar or Fremen may be, he can probably still be shot dead quite nicely with one bullet or laser beam, just like any ordinary man.
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Sure he did, but that was one of the central points of the series. It's your game, and you can do what you want, but why does everybody feel comfortable with this stuff in Dune? If somebody gave Gandalf a .45, everybody would howl.
I think I saw that movie - Wizards, from about '77, wasn't it?
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I think I saw that movie - Wizards, from about '77, wasn't it?
LOL! Didn't think about that when I was writing this, but, yeah! You're right! Huh. The subconscious is a funny thing. o_o
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Why should sword fighting be a central point of Dune ?
Because without sword fighting as the main component you have another mythos.
You can't have Sardaukar with guns. That would make them something different. Something cool perhaps, but not Sardaukar.
As for a tabletop, no guns and no tanks (attack vehicles in general) would make quite a boring game.
You're going to put tanks on a battlefield and call it Dune??? :o :'(
Why go to all the bother of trying to find matching stuff at all? Just get some robed figures and put them on a desert planet with worms, rather than butchering a perfectly good book.
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Because without sword fighting as the main component you have another mythos.
You can't have Sardaukar with guns. That would make them something different. Something cool perhaps, but not Sardaukar.
Elite troops remain elite troops even with guns, otherwise most countries with a strong military wouldn't train such units.
You're going to put tanks on a battlefield and call it Dune??? Shocked Cry
Why go to all the bother of trying to find matching stuff at all? Just get some robed figures and put them on a desert planet with worms, rather than butchering a perfectly good book.
A little bit respect for personal taste, please. There is a Dune book, a movie and some PC games. I base my Dune tabletop more on the movie and the PC games (played Dune II in my childhood and later Dune 2000). Those had a great atmosphere and for me still feel "dune-y", although they follow the book only loosely. Furthermore I can't imagine a good tabletop closely following the book.
Discussions like this lead nowhere except to show different views and belong more in Warhammer 40k boards, where people digitally scream at each other "discussing" the canon. ;)
Just name the thread "The spice must flow, in 15m based on the book" and all problems are solved :D
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@ Wolfslord. It's your game - me, I'm looking forward to seeing pictures of what you create.
Back on topic.
Critical Mass (http://www.criticalmassgames.com) or Peter Pig (http://www.peterpig.co.uk/) may have suitable figures?
Perhaps, something like these (http://www.peterpig.co.uk/ashigaruarquebusadvancing.jpg) or these (http://www.peterpig.co.uk/levyashigaru.jpg) may work as either Atreides or Harkonnens?
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Just name the thread "The spice must flow, in 15m based on the book" and all problems are solved :D
Again, you can do what you like, and I don't think this is turning into a shouting match, but isn't the assumption supposed to be that you are playing a game based on canon? Otherwise, the Hell with the .45, why not have Gandalf pop up in a King Tiger?
As to it not being playable, that's just a question of decent rules, or were you concerned about something else?
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@ Wolfslord. It's your game - me, I'm looking forward to seeing pictures of what you create.
Back on topic.
Critical Mass (http://www.criticalmassgames.com) or Peter Pig (http://www.peterpig.co.uk/) may have suitable figures?
Perhaps, something like these (http://www.peterpig.co.uk/ashigaruarquebusadvancing.jpg) or these (http://www.peterpig.co.uk/levyashigaru.jpg) may work as either Atreides or Harkonnens?
Interesting ideas, though not the direction I'd go. I have painted up my figures, now I just have to find the time to upload them.