Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: Arthur on September 13, 2010, 09:36:03 PM
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Just like it says on the tin. I've been a naughty boy and finally gave in to the temptation of buying Empress Italians and askaris. Does anyone know where to find orbats as well as platoon to battalion organisation charts for both the Italian regulars and the Regio Corpo Truppe Coloniali?
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According to Wikipedia the Italian OOB was this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Order_of_Battle_Second_Italo-Abyssinian_War).
Can't really help with unit organisations, other than to say that the Italians hadn't adopted the 'Binary Division' at this stage and that the CCNN Legions had a different organisation to the Army.
I do know that initially in Spain the platoon organisation was a bit odd (to our eyes at least) in that there was a single LMG section, with two weapons served by 15 men (inc the section leader) and three rifle sections of 14 men each. Platoon HQ was an Officer and a Staff Sergeant. This was changed sometime in 1936 to three 12 man squads, each including a LMG.
There were three platoons to a company and three companies plus a MMG company to a battalion. Somebody who knows what they're talking about can tell you where the light and medium mortars, and anti-tank units slot in. A battery of 3 (later 4) 65/17 guns was held at regimental level (3 battalions).
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I came across this rather interesting book in the community library a few days ago:
(http://image.bokus.com/images2/9789185873319_large)
There is a chapter about Ethiopia and the Swedish involvement there. On the request and invitation of His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah, and Elect of God, Sweden, with parliamentary consent provided volunteer officers to help create and run a military academy. Since the contract stipulated that in case of war with a foreign power, the officers would be recalled, most of them resigned from the Swedish army and entered the service of the Abyssinian. They put together a brigade of two regiments and some other detachments which was soundly beaten and routed so the officers fled on the last boat out (together with he Emperor, god bless him!)
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According to Wikipedia the Italian OOB was this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Order_of_Battle_Second_Italo-Abyssinian_War).
Can't really help with unit organisations, other than to say that the Italians hadn't adopted the 'Binary Division' at this stage and that the CCNN Legions had a different organisation to the Army.
I do know that initially in Spain the platoon organisation was a bit odd (to our eyes at least) in that there was a single LMG section, with two weapons served by 15 men (inc the section leader) and three rifle sections of 14 men each. Platoon HQ was an Officer
and a Staff Sergeant. This was changed sometime in 1936 to three 12 man squads, each including a LMG.
There were three platoons to a company and three companies plus a MMG company to a battalion. Somebody who knows what they're talking about can tell you where the light
and medium mortars, and anti-tank units slot in. A battery of 3 (later 4) 65/17 guns was held at regimental level (3 battalions).
Is nice to see that somebody else as interest in our Army, and has knowledgement too
:)
Piero
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Grazie millo Piero, but I'm obviously not knowledgeable enough to answer the question fully! lol
I came to the Italians through my interest in the Spanish Civil War and in writing for the Very British Civil War Books... I was fascinated to know that Italy was ready to go to war with Britain over Abyssinia and had massed 10 Divisions on the Egyptian Border 'just in case', without Britain being any wiser. The British Garrison was nothing like that of 1940, so it would have been an interesting 'what if?' campaign, to say the least. Italo Balbo is likely to have been a bit more energetic in the attack than Graziani, despite having the same lack of transport for the army... but then that's just my opinion. :)
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Thanks a lot for the info and the Wiki link, Jim : very useful stuff. Now I shall go and investigate some more 8)
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If you can get hold of the old Command Post Quarterly magazines they had the TO&Es for the Italians in Spain, either #7 or #8 IIRC. Actually, go one better and search the Test of battle Forum. There is a precise TO&E for the Askari given by one of the Italian members.
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Got it :
http://www.testofbattle.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=365&sid=e25ed515c911973907ef6a6226f0061f (http://www.testofbattle.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=365&sid=e25ed515c911973907ef6a6226f0061f)
Thanks for the tip, Carlos ;)
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...On the request and invitation of His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah, and Elect of God, Sweden, with parliamentary consent provided volunteer officers to help create and run a military academy. Since the contract stipulated that in case of war with a foreign power, the officers would be recalled, most of them resigned from the Swedish army and entered the service of the Abyssinian. They put together a brigade of two regiments and some other detachments which was soundly beaten and routed so the officers fled on the last boat out (together with he Emperor, god bless him!)
Hey Hammers, is it possible that we share a certain amount of reverence toward His Imperial Majesty? Jah be praised, Jah be praised...
Religious matters aside, I'd like to see an OOB for the Abyssinian natives as well. The fact that Swedes were part of the Imperial Forces just adds to the appeal! It could provide a very interesting setting for skirmish-style games, even though it would probably be very uneven on the battlefield...
Yours truly,
Sir Dryden
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Got it :
http://www.testofbattle.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=365&sid=e25ed515c911973907ef6a6226f0061f (http://www.testofbattle.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=365&sid=e25ed515c911973907ef6a6226f0061f)
Thanks for the tip, Carlos ;)
That's an outstanding link, thank you! Lots of useful and just plain interesting information.