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Miniatures Adventure => Weird Wars => Topic started by: Capt. E.W. Brimmage on November 06, 2010, 01:48:20 AM

Title: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Capt. E.W. Brimmage on November 06, 2010, 01:48:20 AM
In Secrets of the Third Reich Spain has sided with the Axis forces. How would you do the forces of Spain? What creatures, if any, should they have, and what level of equipment?

Actual late war German models might be good to represent the Spanish, but what weaponry should they have? Maybe just the SoTR German guns, but then they would look just like unarmoured Germans. Is there really a choice though? Also what vehicles do you think they would use? Would there be much domestic production of Mechs or would the Spanish stick with conventional tracked and wheeled vehicles?

With a possible strong Catholic resurgence Spain might be at odds with Germany's occult experiments.

In terms of SoTR rules I thought that the British Platoon with it's more expensive body armour and Battle Chaplains in the Incursion expansion would be good for representing Spanish forces.
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Jakar Nilson on November 06, 2010, 04:06:07 AM
This might not be all that helpful, but I do like the Anglian Miniatures Nationalists for that kind of scenario, be they Carlists or Falangists (I know that someone else owns the line now, but I designed the Anglian Miniatures logo, so they'll always be Anglian Miniatures to me! )

And there's Pan's Labyrinth for some Weird War inspiration, even if the Nationalists didn't actually have anything weirder than a deranged officer in it.
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: commissarmoody on November 06, 2010, 04:34:31 AM
empress miniatures owns the Anglian line now, And I would actually do both. I would base the Spanish fighting the allies roughly of the Azer Division that fought in russia for the germans. I don't reimber ever thing about them, but i know they were supplied with german kit, and i think used a spanish flag shield device as an insignia on there side of there helmets and often would were red berets  for the carlist and supposedly they cut a more (dashing)  appranics then the average german unit. I am most likely wrong on all of that lol.
They also supposedly wore khaki trousers adopted form the spanish foreign legion and blue shirts for the Falangists when off duty in spain. But on the front they would wear the heer uniforms. I say do a mix and match most in german kit (fildgray) tops and toss in a blue undershirt shirt or and or khaki trousers  and your good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Division

I would use the german mins to represent them with german helmet and maybe mix in a few of the british commando/para gas masked beret heads panted blue.
So I agree with the using British stats for them should work with a little bit of work. (I have to pull my book out and check the rules out agin lol)

I also say use the anglian miniatures for 2nd line and anti partisan war that was actually still going on in real life in spain at that time.
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Capt. E.W. Brimmage on November 06, 2010, 05:50:45 AM
I was thinking with the purchase of German tanks in the mid forties that the Spanish government may have requested military and civil engineering advisors as well (if it didn't already). With foreign expertise to get the ball rolling a Spanish light Mech could be produced for use in the mountains or other difficult terrain to help root out partisans. This could lead to a light mech for airborne use, and then a 2nd generation multi role light mech could be reaching the front by the time 1949 rolls around. Maybe a medium mech too by that stage?

I also thought that the Spanish would have their own domestically produced armour, possibly a somewhat re-engineered Panther as well as acquiring German tanks being phased out such as the Tigers if the E-series makes it into production. I'd probably stay away from Tiger IIs though without more advanced armour on the German side.

It's a pity there isn't more advanced conventional armour at this stage in SoTR, nearly all possibilities are accounted for in the rules except for that one.

I was thinking that the Bolt Action plastic Germans would be good for representing the Spanish uniform in use at that stage, the Empress/Anglian miniatures are very nice, but a bit too 1930s with leg wrappings and MC Hammer pants. I'd have to figure out what to do about guns though.
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: commissarmoody on November 06, 2010, 05:54:49 AM
I had forgot about the bolt action plastic germans
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Hat Guy on November 06, 2010, 10:18:39 AM
The Battle Chaplains are Monster Hunters and make squad fire better against the undead and supernatural.

For Pan's Labyrinth Fae, Eureka does some look-alikes (http://www.victorialamb.com/store.html).

Sadly, the above-mentioned film is the sole source of my knowledge about Spain in this period, but the SOTR background Spain is almost as big a power as Germany, and with pretty much everyone building Mechs by 1949, putting one in your army wouldn't go astray.
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Capt. E.W. Brimmage on November 07, 2010, 09:09:19 AM
I've loaned my rulebook out, what does 'Ye Olde and Blood Soaked Lande' do?
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: area23 on November 07, 2010, 11:29:51 PM
Anglian/Empress do SCW headsets. Falangists or Carlist heads etc on late war german uniform might work out well.

Also remember that one of the reasons of the German intervention during the civil war was to recover ancient artifacts from the vaults of the Spanish Inquisition.
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Hat Guy on November 08, 2010, 12:31:39 AM
Olde and Blood Soaked Lande enables British units to re-roll failed morale checks against Supernatural Horror. the Brit's strength is that they are almost impossible to break.
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: commissarmoody on November 08, 2010, 01:35:44 AM
Olde and Blood Soaked Lande enables British units to re-roll failed morale checks against Supernatural Horror. the Brit's strength is that they are almost impossible to break.

Yeah that might be a hard sale for the Spanish, not saying there not tough, there there relatively new belligerents in this conflict and might have a little more fighting zeal then say the fatalism of the brits and other forces.
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Capt. E.W. Brimmage on November 08, 2010, 01:50:26 AM
Cheers on the headset heads-up.

Might have to do a bit more of a re-write than I was expecting to do. With few supernatural things on the Allied side the Chaplain special rule will need a re-write as well as the Brish special rule, I can see them as being as hard-bitten as the Poms.
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Hat Guy on November 08, 2010, 08:23:38 AM
Maybe consider Americans?

The Yanks have numbers, 12 in the basic squad, and have some of the worst basic equipment in the game, but can make up for it with a smattering of SMGs and BARs. With the Buck Holt character, their Cool goes through the roof, but lacks the re-rolls that the Brits get.
Make Buck or a special unit Fae, and you're set.
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Capt. E.W. Brimmage on November 10, 2010, 02:06:46 AM
Americans do sound like a good idea. Looks like this is going to be a full rewrite! I might start later today.

Are there any resources on Spanish weaponry? I haven't found anything myself.

I wasn't too keen on having Pan's Labyrinth creatures, but I suppose if there is demand I'd better put them in the list. I'm thinking either a Warhammer style swarm of small creatures grouped on a larger base or a creature unit, and also a single more powerful creature.

As an aside, I don't know what was going on with all my hyphens up there. Anyone play Games Workshop's Inquisitor? Remember the online article about Cherubim? That bloke needed an editor.
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Capt. E.W. Brimmage on November 10, 2010, 05:54:21 AM
I've also thought that maybe the Pan's Labyrinth would be better off alongside Spanish partisans.
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: commissarmoody on November 10, 2010, 06:36:42 AM
I've also thought that maybe the Pan's Labyrinth would be better off alongside Spanish partisans.
I agree considering the government is vary pro catholic
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: white knight on November 10, 2010, 08:52:29 AM
Maybe the government could have an updated Spanish Inquisition kinda like a catholic gestapo.
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Red Orc on November 10, 2010, 09:35:11 AM
That's what I was thinking, with Menoth models from Warmachine especially this one (http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/the-protectorate-of-menoth/warcasters/high-exemplar-kreoss-variant) as leaders. That does make it very Pulpy-sci0fi, though, and you may want a more realistic feel.
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: white knight on November 10, 2010, 09:38:05 AM
Well, I was thinking a bit more down to earth and more regular uniforms for the time, but with catholic imagery added (e.g. top of head shaved, priest caps, crucifixes, those scarf thingies priests wear during mass, priestcollars, holy water flasks, etc...)
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Capt. E.W. Brimmage on November 13, 2010, 12:57:34 AM
Writing up the orders of battle is quite hard without the rulebooks now I'm changing special rules, but I should have them back in a fortnight or so. I think I've finally got some good ideas for the Spanish platoon so they aren't just an existing force minus stuff, with vital help from you chaps of course.

So the basic platoon will follow the Americans, but without combat engineers or whatever they have, and I think scout squads instead, like Aufklarer without the IR gear. Good for anti-partisan work basically.

The Battle Chaplain's special rule wouldn't be out of place if Partisans have creatures, but would be near useless against most Allied forces. I think some sort of area of effect leadership buff would be more appropriate. Improved cool or cool check re-rolls, or similar. A Monster Hunter might be best off as a special character.

Support choices are still a bit difficult, writing a light mech in is a bit like cheating with the Mech design rules in the back of the main book. Might do it anyway if I write fluff to go alongside the OOB though. I have thought that an Inquisition paramilitary squad based around one of the British Commando teams might be a good idea, but that's it so far.
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Capt. E.W. Brimmage on November 13, 2010, 08:02:37 AM
I asked my mate to just list out some gear for me. There's a couple of things missing for a full OoB though. What squads have smoke and frag grenades- the only one I'm sure of is the ex-Temple Commando squad. At this stage I've borrowed the frag placement from another fan American list.

Platoon Upgrades:
The platoon is Green, but can be upgraded to Veteran or Elite (not sure on points)
Body armour can be purchased for the entire platoon for 3 points.

Some squad names are placeholders until I can get translations

Platoon Organistation Chart:
1 Command Squad
1-4 Infantry Squads
Platoon Assets
0-1 Mortar Team (same as US equivalent)
0-2 MG Teams (same as US equivalent)
0-3 Tank-hunter Teams (same as German Panzershrek teams)
(0-2?) Sniper Teams (same as German equivalent)
(0-2?) Scout Squads
Support
Inquisition Knights (sure sounds naff in English) Caballeros(?)
I need some more!

Command Squad 6 RP
7 man team, Lieutenant, Corporal, and 5 privates
Unit Equipment: Hand grenades and semi-automatic rifles
Lieutenant: Pistol
Up to 5 models may trade their semi-automatic rifles for SMGs or assault rifles
1 private can be upgraded to a radio operator
One private may exchange his weapons for a pistol and medic pack to become a medic
One private may trade his weapon for an anti-mech rifle
The Corporal may be replaced by a Spanish Battle Priest for __ RPs
Any one model may take a rifle grenade for his semi-auto rifle or assault rifle

Spanish Battle Priest
Monster hunters as per British priest would be largely useless against allies. Might be handy against the partisans I am planning on writing, but would be better with an area of effect leadership buff

Infantry Squad 6 RP
12 man team, Sergeant, Corporal and 10 Privates
Unit Equipment: Hand grenades and semi-automatic rifles
The Sergeant and Corporal may trade their semi-auto rifles for SMGs or assault rifles
Any one model may take a rifle grenade for his semi-auto rifle or assault rifle
One private may trade his weapon for an anti-mech rifle
One private may take a packed LMG for 1 RP

Scout Squad 5RP
Veteran 6 man team, Sergeant, Corporal and 4 Privates
Unit Equipment: Hand grenades and semi-automatic rifles
Any model can trade their semi-automatic rifle with an assault rifle or SMG
One model can trade his weapon for a sniper rifle or Anti Mech rifle
The squad may be given camouflage for 1RP
The squad may be upgraded to elite for 1RP

Inquisition Knights 6RP
Elite 6 man team, Sergeant, Corporal and 4 Privates
Unit Equipment: Body armour, smoke grenades, explosives (or incendiary grenades?), hand grenades and SMGs
Any model can trade their SMG for an assault rifle
Up to two Privates may exchange their weapon for a flamethrower or packed LMG for 1RP each
Special Rules: Nerves of Steel, Monster Hunters

Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Hat Guy on November 13, 2010, 11:40:19 AM
Looks pretty good so far, only a couple of things that leap out at me as problematic.

5 Assault Rifles in the Command Squad is a bit much, the only Command Squad in the books (correct me if I'm wrong) with that kind of armament is the British Para Commandos from Doomsday.

The Scouts need Ranger or Deep Insertion to really function as anything more than infantry with camouflage.

The Knights seem to work a lot like a Russian Engineer squad, not sure if this was deliberate or how you wanted them to "feel".
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Capt. E.W. Brimmage on November 13, 2010, 12:54:22 PM
Oops, probably cock ups caused by me getting the OoB from a mate on the phone. The scouts were, as you can probably tell, meant to be Aufklarer without the option to take IR gear.

Command Squad
Up to 3 models may trade their semi-automatic rifles for SMGs or assault rifles.

Scout Squad
Special Rules: Ranger

The Knights were done by feel. I took the Temple Commando squad and fiddled about with it, dropping some of the more high tech gear. I had SMGs as the basic weapon with assault rifles as the swap because SMGs felt more primitive. I put the flamers in  because it can't be the Inquisition without torching heretics/ gribblies.
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Donpimpom on November 13, 2010, 01:24:02 PM
some sources for your inspiration in very spanish catholic concepts.
Maybe a source for icons and ideas for regiment insignias (it's a page about Hermandades de semana Santa) http://www.galeon.com/sanbenito/hermandades.htm

list of religious orders in spain, good source of inspiration for unit or character names
http://www.catolicos.com/mujeres.htm
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orden_religiosa_cat%C3%B3lica
About political symbols no mention about falange iconography, and after the civil war the falange iconography was almost everywhere (in Spain of course).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falange

The troops send to Russia by Franco are the most easy and colorful de turn into weird, but many republicans where fighting in WWII on the allied side.
For instance, the french Leclerc Armoured Division had 2.000 spanish republicans forming the IX company also known as "la nueve", in fact they where the first tanks to free Paris on 1944, they where endowed with US equipment, M3 stuart, sherman tanks, etc. Thats a french documentary about them
http://www.fipa.tm.fr/en/programs/2010/la-nueve-ou-les-oublies-de-la-victoire-21544.htm

in the other hand many republican pilots went to URSS during WWII, for instance this guy
http://www.organizedrage.com/2010/01/jose-maria-bravo-republican-pilot.html

So in my opinion in a WWW you can scatter spanish units on almost any army just taking care to put the accent according their side on the SCW, so no Falange on URSS armies etc
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Capt. E.W. Brimmage on September 26, 2011, 09:23:57 AM
Hello!

I'm back to resurrecting this concept, wanting a mainland European force to use that will be unique amongst my group of friends.

For the platoon special rule perhaps a toned down rule in the vein of Ye Olde and Bloode Soaked Lande would be appropriate? The guerillero guides in the Sharpe books had a respect for the old superstitions which could make for an interesting theme.

A negative platoon special rule I was considering was, for in games with allies, a negative to leadership, whether through just a neg 1 modifier or one of the special rules in the book, for units within 6" or 12" of an allied unit if there are supernatural units present in that platoon. This would represent a deeply catholic mistrust of allies who 'deal with the devil' likely, in the minds of the troops, literally.
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Capt. E.W. Brimmage on September 26, 2011, 12:34:38 PM
I wonder whether the larger German HMG team woukd be better?
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Chief Lackey Rich on September 30, 2011, 03:34:19 AM
For supernatural stuff, you might try drawing from Spanish mythology tainted by the infuence of German Weird War nastiness.  Some enterprising necromancer (Spanish or German) is bound to think about raising El Cid and his legendary steed (Babieca is supposed to buried with him, after all) as zombies just to show they can.

Given that vampires and werewolves are proven fact in the SotR setting, some other legends might be too.  The grave of Hercules should be in Spain - what could that hold, and can you even control a zombie demigod in a pinch?  Their might be a culebre left napping somewhere or some giants (tall as a windmill, no doubt) waiting to be recruited as an answer to enemy mecha. 
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Cadet13 on October 01, 2011, 05:46:10 AM
I would imagine the El Cid and Bavieca would come back more as a ghost or spirit, Drake's Drum-style, as he is the Hero of Spain. Zombie Cid doesn't seem to fit, IMHO.  :?

Cool project, BTW!  :)
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: dadlamassu on October 01, 2011, 06:31:02 AM
Not strictly Weird WW2 but certainly WSCW!

(http://www.morvalearth.co.uk/Monastery_death/100_5243.JPG)

(http://www.morvalearth.co.uk/Monastery_death/100_5247.JPG)

See more http://www.morvalearth.co.uk/Monastery_death/Mon_death_intro.htm (http://www.morvalearth.co.uk/Monastery_death/Mon_death_intro.htm)
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Junkers on October 23, 2011, 04:10:23 PM
Very interesting post.

I'm from Spain and some of my ancestors fought in the civil war in the national side (Carlists) and Blue Division in the WW2.
I think I can help you with advice about weapondry, uniforms, insignia and political questions about the franquism years.
I have also a huge collection of military photos.

Some facts and concepts for yor project:

- I the civil war and early franquism, all the spanish society were very religious, but it was not extremely (nothing compared with inquisition or something like that), the Catholicism was a "one more reason" for the national side insurrection but there was so many others (political and social mainly). In my opinion, all the franquism ideology are centred in the idea of spanish nationalism or patriotism. The General Franco's campaign against communist/anarquist republicans was oficially considered by the Catholicism as a "Crusade".
When General Franco won the war, in the next day, he offered his "unbeaten sword" to God in a Church in Madrid, and it was blessed.
Also, built a huge landmark called "Valle de los caídos" (The Fallen's Valley) near Madrid, excavated in the hard rock of a mountain with an enormous cross (visible in kilometers!) in the top.
(http://noticias.terra.es/2011/gente-y-cultura/1010/fotos-media/memoria-historica-una-comision-de-expertos-se-plantea-exhumar-a-franco-del-valle-de-los-caidos$304x228.jpg)

- The nationalist side, there was some "factions".
The Carlists, most of them from the north of Spain -mainly Vascongades and Navarra- wich motto was (and is nowadays) "Dios, Patria y Rey" (God, Homeland and King), they are very religious, patriotic and monarchical (but defend another monarchical dinasty). Known as "requetés" an organized in "Tercios" in Civil War, fought very brave and were victorious in battles. The carlist uniform is khaki/brown with a big red basque beret (called "Chapela or Txapela") and his flag is the "Cruz de Borgoña".
Carlists still existing as political party (but is not very big)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Fo5f1tGdK-o/SakLH8-sQdI/AAAAAAAABIU/FhXiMVZrWqQ/s400/requet%C3%A9.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_X4x-KouQ_dA/Sf4D8d4SEAI/AAAAAAAACqQ/ZiniTlFeyOg/s400/VOLUNTARIOS+DEL+REQUET%C3%89.jpg)

- The Falangists, were members of the "Falange" political party. Their political ideas are called "National-sindicalism" and they dressed with a blue shirt. They are religious but catholicism was not the main thing for them and they were not monarchical.
After the war, Falange was the only political party allowed in Spain and their symbols used everywhere. There existed confrontation between Falangists and Carlist (non-armed confrontation, they fought in the same side and together, but they were not very friends).
From Germany, existed some sympahty for Falange because they had some similarities with national-socialism (not in racial policies -that never existed in Spain- , only in organization scheme). After the franquism, the original Falange was divided in some small political parties.

This image is from a modern film, but you can see the uniforms very well here:
(http://www.rockstyle.es/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/loquillofalange1.jpg)

Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera (creator of the Falange and author of their ideary). He was captured and killed by the communists.
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQK69xYk5Ou__IO_VYqYScauOKX7OVhe9XBVmrcTghZUwfnulitwiAEpFd0)

- Also existed the CEDA (center-right wing catholic political party), the military (professional military that started the insurrection and supported it) and monarchicals (who defended the return of the Borbon's dinasty).

About weapondry, in the Civil War, the weapondry used by the National side was mainly produced here: spanish versions of Mauser german rifle (like Coruña or Oviedo versions), Mauser C96 pistols (produced here by Star and Astra weapon factories) and a lot of german and italian weapons (Mauser Kar98, and others).

Sorry for my bad english. If you need more information, ask me and I will try to help you.
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Capt. E.W. Brimmage on November 13, 2011, 11:39:44 AM
That is some fantastically useful information! I would like to start this project in Summer, after uni is over and hopefully with some money from a summer job.
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Rigel on November 25, 2011, 01:48:39 AM
Hi all. Take this opportunity to salute in my first post.

I wanted to make an idea that occurred to me to see the option of the squad of explorers. The Civil Guard could play that role perfectly, it is a body of very rural military police during the first half of the twentieth century (and a little beyond) has been almost the only policeman who had in the villages. In the Spanish Civil War were responsible for cross-country search for escaped partisans (maquis).

A pair of images:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AO3V9onrqBI/TZBSxzeg3AI/AAAAAAAAFpI/74AEcp2j4oI/s400/Detenci%25C3%25B3n%2Bde%2Bun%2Bcampesino%2Brepublicano%2Bextreme%25C3%25B1o%2Bpor%2Bfuerzas%2Bde%2Bla%2BGuardia%2BCivil.%2BTodos%2Blos%2Brostros.jpg)

(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5436/jmgl8768vz8.jpg)

I hope it can be useful.
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Weird WWII on November 26, 2011, 01:06:06 PM
Those are some sweet hats! 

Brian
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Hat Guy on November 26, 2011, 11:44:41 PM
Civil War Spain; Mad Stylin' yo!
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Capt. E.W. Brimmage on December 01, 2011, 10:45:33 AM
I may have tracked down a manufacturer of Gewehr 43s (as the most basic rifle for everybody in SoTR is semi-auto). Bolt Action used to make them, so if I can't get them cast from Warlord I may be able to find somewhere with them still in stock.

For the figures themselves Warlord plastic Germans with Westwind German gas mask heads should be appropriate enough, but painted in the olivey colour of the Spanish uniform. Here's a thread I posted when I first joined, which has some helpful info regarding uniforms: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=20001

I think they should have some Mech support from the new 28mm Gear Krieg range. I am worried that the German mech would make the force look too much like early war WWWII Germans with all of the German equipment they'll be using. I think the Italian mech would suit best, but that is long into the future. Perhaps the allied one would work, it looks quite different to the allied equipment in SoTR, and they are well equipped with mechs, though problems may arise if Allied players in the gaming group use the Allied mechs from Dust.

If I could just get these damn guns, then this project could go ahead, then all I have to do is decide on a weird unit or two to add some flavour.
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Junkers on December 21, 2011, 01:15:00 AM
About weapons, maybe could be interesting for you to know that in 1949, the spanish military industries produced the CETME assault rifle (inspired in Stg44) that becomes the infantry assault rifle for spanish military units from 1957 to 1999 (with different variations and upgrades).

This spanish model of assault rifle was very well made and later was the basis of the design of HK G3 assault rifle, based in CETME rifle (that is very similar)

This is the CETME A1, first version of CETME assault rifle, wich prototype was produced in 1949.
(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6296/cetme.jpg)

This is the CETME L, the last version of CETME produced (in 1999 was replaced in spanish army by HK G36)
(http://www.soldiers.es/images/Cetme%20L.gif)

You can use G3 rifle to represent CETME in your miniatures.

By the way, about the "cool hats" of the Guardia Civil, are commonly called "tricornio" (in english is like "three-horned") but Guardia Civil agents prefer to name it "sombrero" (hat). It still in use nowadays only in cremonial uniforms (used in parades or similar) and it can be seen used by the agents on guard duty in the doors of government buildings.
Nowadays the Guardia Civil looks very much modern in comparison with Civil-war photos.

Some pics of present day Guardia Civil

- International mission in East-Europe
(http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/2268/gendforcezk5.jpg)

-Anti-terrorists operation
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/5260/herriko9rt2.jpg)

- Parade
(http://estaticos01.cache.el-mundo.net/elmundo/imagenes/2009/10/04/1254666279_0.jpg)
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Capt. E.W. Brimmage on January 04, 2012, 02:02:43 PM
I was sure I already replied to this. Good to know I can use G3s for assault rifles, however few there will be in my army thanks to using the US platoon as a base.

My plans have been stalled again until probably when uni goes back in March, all my money saved by living at home for some of the holidays will have to be put in to my ****ing mahooosive phone bill I got. I fell asleep on the couch with the bloody thing tethered.  :'(
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: SiamTiger on February 18, 2012, 06:56:57 AM
I love the idea of spaniards for Weird War 2. Everybody has some Nazi Zombies and Wehrmacht Werewolf, but going for spaniards is really unique.

I may be adding a small warband of spaniards to my collection, using the Empress Miniatures (i had them in mind for a while but had no idea what to use them for, now i have an excuse to buy them, yeah!).

The only question, how to get the weird into the spanish? A special unit of spanish inquisition with some henchmen, using bounded demons and holy weapons against their enemies. Or a modern version of don quixote on a motorbike with MP and lance (where as i think of a side car with sancho panza using a light MG).
Or maybe some ghosts of the dark ages, el cid and a few of his soldiers, a little bit like in the lotr return of the king.

So many ideas. :)
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: Patrick Lefèvre on February 18, 2012, 10:19:33 AM
I've got no knowledge about the SCW other than it had a dictator called Franco and that it took place in the 1940's.
A renewal af the Spanish Inquistion sounds great however, if you need names for vehicles I'll gladly give you some: Don Quichote heavy walker/tank, Franco heavy cannon, Alvarez medium tank/walker http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_%C3%81lvarez_de_Toledo,_3rd_Duke_of_Alba, Toro (bull) heavy armour infantery,...
Maybe I could do something similar with the French  8)
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: KeyanSark on March 22, 2012, 11:43:08 AM
Hi all:

I am also spanish, and I remember writing a lot of mad ideas within the SOTR forums (I, in fact, was the translator for the Incursion rulebook to Spanish) :)

I'll try not to stick too much into reality... But for "weirdness" and keeping in flavour, I think that the main "flavours" of a Spanish Faction should be a) Very Catholic - Crusade and b) Totally anti-comunist. Point a) is a weakness, as I cannot envision spanish armies of the era fighting alongside werewolves or zombies: these should be considered as "demons" by the troops. This should add a nice background to army compositions...

On the other side, having chaplains or exorcists may be a nice touch. Very fanatic guys that may inspire troops to insane acts of valour, and also counter weird allied creatures such as the wendigo.

History is full of facts detailing the extreme valour and dedication of the spanish volunteers in the OstFront. To add flavour to a spanish force, I'd mark them as a small and elite army. The country was utterly devastated after the civil war, so I cannot envision a regular army marching in Europe, although I do envision elite volunteers.

In addition, I don't remember now the SOTR timeline, but Spanish troops should be ideal for retaking Italy. Taking the Vaticane and Rome from the Allies should be a question of honour for them (remember, I am being Pulpy, archeotypical and weird, don't take me too seriously here - hey! we are talking about zombies!)

Spanish mythology is very rich, and plenty of creatures should be summoned to the battlefield. However, Point a) arises again. I cannot envision regular troops fighting alongisde "demons", but if we count them as special operation, volunteer guys, maybe some exceptions can be done.

And depending on the Weirdness level you want to take, I think that "The Cid" should be an ideal character. He was a famous historical warrior during the arab wars, and his figure was overly used by Franco as a sign of the Crusade.

So,
- Honour
- Elite
- Catholic-religious - no zombies! no demons!
- Anti-communist

More ideas soon...

Remember also that there were a strong partisan resistance in the North of Spain since the end of the war to the mid-40s (when the allies did not grant them support to overthrown Franco, they had to disappear) - this can also be used to create additional troops, here equipped by the allies, who do not care to use weird things if reinstating the Old Republic was a possibility...

Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: KeyanSark on March 22, 2012, 01:12:10 PM
As usual, the wikipedia is your friend.

El Cid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Cid

Santiago Matamoros
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_James_the_Greater

Hercules's tomb is located in Galicia, in Spain. Maybe the Axis is trying to "resurrect" him and the Allies want that too for their forces
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercules

And the Holy Company... a symbol of death, but they may be coming back to help the country against our foes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Compa%C3%B1a
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: SiamTiger on March 22, 2012, 03:45:56 PM
Thanks a lot for the big load of inspiration.

As i am only half-spaniard (the other half is german and i grew up in germany) is my knowledge of Myths rather humble.

I could imagine something close to the Occidentaux from Hell Dorado.
http://www.helldorado.fr/factions/les-occidentaux/index.php

As from the inquisition part, these are almost a must have;
http://www.victorialamb.com/wugs/original%20miniatures/inquisition/spanishinquisition.html

I understand the point of very catholic and therefore having problems fighting side by side with demons, but how if they were bounded like the ones radical 40k inquisitors use?
Title: Re: How would you do Weird War II Spaniards?
Post by: KeyanSark on March 22, 2012, 04:07:46 PM
Definitely, and that's why I consider that a weird spanish army should be an elite one. The common army or militias should be too frightened to fight alongside "demons", to the point of even rebel. Dust Tactics says something similar related to their zombies. Only the "Blutkreuz" troops are able to fight with zombies. The rest just run!

As per uniforms, standard germans should be valid. The helmets were a little different, but...

http://www.minecreek.org/legion-condor/images/8825_11_34-spanish-legion-uniforms.jpg

Here are some Blue Division members in clearly German outfit with a spanish banner

http://militarescw.blogspot.com.es/2009/05/spanish-military-during-world-war-ii.html

In fact, this last article shows the poor situation of the army after the SCW... However, for weird purposes, we can clearly overlook this and move Axis factories to Spain to increase productivity far from allied bombers, thus creating new walkers and better equipment for them.