Lead Adventure Forum

Miniatures Adventure => Back of Beyond => Topic started by: Rhoderic on September 02, 2007, 12:05:49 AM

Title: OK, so prime me on this whole BoB racket
Post by: Rhoderic on September 02, 2007, 12:05:49 AM
I love what I'm seeing of the Triumph & Tragedy previews, but I just realized I don't actually know the first thing about Back of Beyond gaming. So, basically... tell me what kind of armies and conflicts would be good for a beginner to game.

To put it another way: If you had to make a "starter box" containing everything a beginner needs to start gaming BoB (miniatures, and maybe a very limited number of reference books), what would you put in it?
Title: OK, so prime me on this whole BoB racket
Post by: Will Bailie on September 02, 2007, 02:55:57 AM
For starters, I would recommend reading Peter Hopkirk's "Setting the East Ablaze", which provides a great summary of events in Central Asia during and following the Russian Revolution.  It provides a great introduction to the parties involved in the conflict.  Chris Peers' "Back of Beyond" supplement for Contemptible Little Armies provides a much shorter introduction to the potential participants in a BoB campaign.  Although the lists are designed for CLA, it should be easy to convert them for other gaming systems.

As for figures, check out the extensive Back of Beyond list at Copplestone Castings:  http://www.copplestonecastings.co.uk/
Keep an eye on the monthly specials, as Mark will occasionally put up an entire BoB army set.

Bob Murch's Pulp Figures can also be used to build armies for a BoB campaign:  http://pulpfigures.com/

Another great source of figures is Brigade Games, especially the new "Storm in the East" range:  http://brigadegames.com/

Hope that is helpful for starters.

Will
Title: OK, so prime me on this whole BoB racket
Post by: Will Bailie on September 02, 2007, 03:10:09 AM
Possible armies for a BoB campaign include (but are not limited to):

Central Asian tribesmen and Basmachis (Tajiks, Khazaks, and others)
Armies of the Central Asian khanates (such as Bokhara)
Tibetans
Chinese Bandits
Chinese Warlord (sometimes there is little to choose between the warlords and the bandits!)
Afghan army - somewhat better organised than their neighbouring Khazaks, Tajiks and the like, though that isn't saying much!
Bolsheviks (ie, Reds)
White armies (which generally encompasses all Russian opponents of the Bolos, not just the "official" Whites)
The rather bizarre White Russian army of Mad Baron von Ungern-Sternberg
Interventionists (both real and theoretical), including British and British Indian armies, Japanese, Americans, Turks and Canadians (no, really!)
The Czech Legion, who ran several armoured trains on various sections of the Trans-Siberian Railway.

There are opportunities for including Cossacks, Mongols, religious fanatics, tanks, armoured cars, armoured trains, aircraft, and more.  Lots of fun for everyone!
Title: OK, so prime me on this whole BoB racket
Post by: Hammers on September 02, 2007, 10:40:21 AM
Another suitable if lesser played area is US imperialism in the Banana Wars of Central America in the '20ies and '30ies. You can use US Marines, United Fruit goons and US Naval Troops against Cuban regular army, Haitian militia, carribean indians, Mexican Federales etc.

Brigade has an excellent range, Carribean Empires, for it this to:

Jivaro headhunters
(http://www.brigadegames.com/images/BGGL/BG-CEN041_sm.jpg)

Haitian zombies
(http://www.brigadegames.com/images/BGGL/BG-CEN003_sm.jpg)

Sandinistas:
(http://www.brigadegames.com/images/BGGL/BG-CEN020_sm.jpg)

And these lovely parrots and idols (do you recognize the idol to the far right?)
(http://www.brigadegames.com/images/BGGL/BG-CEA001_sm.jpg)

And Pulp has a few marines and naval troops:
(http://www.pulpfigures.com/catalog/pys3.jpg)
(http://www.pulpfigures.com/catalog/pys10.jpg)

Also, Copplestone ahs a few Amazon Indians which with a bit of anthroplological disrespect will do as Carribeans:
(http://www.copplestonecastings.co.uk/images/c45.jpg)

Here are a few books on the topic:
The Banana Wars: United States Intervention in the Caribbean, 1898-1934 by Lester D. Langley
The Banana Men: American Mercenaries and Entrepreneurs in Central America, 1880-1930 by Lester D. Langley and Thomas David Schoonover
Title: OK, so prime me on this whole BoB racket
Post by: Poliorketes on September 02, 2007, 11:09:23 AM
The Basic BoB-theatre is central asia in the early twenties, where you can field nearly every army active in asia imaginable. But there are lots of toher areas you could expand to (not only the banana wars).

For starters, use Chris Peers BoB-Rulebook, it has a huge list of armies acitve in central asia. Theses theatres of war are playable with the lists included (though you have to convert them for other rules systems, which shouldn't be so hard to do):
- RCW in Siberia
- bolshewik reconquest of the central asian muslim khanates
- fighting in Mongolia
- chinese civil war
- 3rd anglo-afghan war
- british thrust through persia in late WW1

For most armies involved there are really good minis available from the companies mentioned above, though japanese are scarce and basmachis (the mulsim khanates) are missing. A starter box could be done with OSPREY MAA 293 & 305 the russian civil war 1+2 (red & white armies) and a bunch of copplestone red and white units.

The theatres above could be easily expanded into (with new armie lists needed):
- greek-turkish war (greek, italian & french army)
- russo-polish war (polish forces)
- RCW in the West (free corps, german army, baltic & finnish armies)
- German intervention in the Caucasus 1918 (german army)
- free corps vs. reds in Germany
- sand pebbles / Yangste Kiang (USMC)
- japanese-chinese war (1930s weapons)
- 'What if' scenario with the germans having won WW1
- Rif War (available from Iron Ivan)
- Italians in Lybia and Abbessinia
- Mad Mullah in Somalia

Other theatres not connected to the original setting are
- banana wars
- chaco war
Title: OK, so prime me on this whole BoB racket
Post by: Grimm on September 02, 2007, 11:30:21 AM
ok but why Canadians ???

and what are the The Czech Legion???
Title: OK, so prime me on this whole BoB racket
Post by: xeoran on September 02, 2007, 12:44:45 PM
Quote from: "Grimm"
ok but why Canadians ???

and what are the The Czech Legion???


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_Legion

Canadians served with the interventionist Entente troops.
Title: OK, so prime me on this whole BoB racket
Post by: Poliorketes on September 02, 2007, 01:34:54 PM
Quote from: "Grimm"
and what are the The Czech Legion???


In WW1, many Czechs of the Austro-Hungarian Army defected to the Russians. They formed the Czech Legion to fight against the Central Powers. After the war, they where stranded in russia and by coincidence where the only real fighting force in Siberia - and took control of the transsiberean railway. At first neutral in the russian civil war, they took sides with the whites and allies, but later took Admiral Koltschak captive and delivered him to the reds (and his dead) for free passage to Czechia via Wladiwostik.
Title: OK, so prime me on this whole BoB racket
Post by: white knight on September 02, 2007, 02:08:08 PM
Quote from: "hammershield"
Another suitable if lesser played area is US imperialism in the Banana Wars of Central America in the '20ies and '30ies. You can use US Marines, United Fruit goons and US Naval Troops against Cuban regular army, Haitian militia, carribean indians, Mexican Federales etc.


Monday Knight Productions has a range for the Banana Wars too: http://www.mondayknight.com/mkpindex-Banana.htm

Maybe not as nice as some of the others, but could fill some gaps. :)
Title: OK, so prime me on this whole BoB racket
Post by: Hammers on September 02, 2007, 02:32:26 PM
Quote from: "white knight"
Maybe not as nice as some of the others, but could fill some gaps. :)


Right. Still cool. I did not know the Phillipine muslim tribesmen were called "moros" to. That would explain the confusion when I did a post on Anglian SCW Moros.
Title: OK, so prime me on this whole BoB racket
Post by: Rhoderic on September 02, 2007, 09:59:04 PM
Lots of great stuff, thanks guys.

Your alternative campaigns are very tempting, but in the end I think I'll go for the "core" BoB setting. I suddenly find myself very intrigued by Chinese warlords/bandits.

No good miniatures for stuff like the khanates, Afghans, Tajiks, Khazaks etc, then? Those were the second most intriguing choice. If there were miniatures, how big a stretch would it have been to pit them and the Chinese against each other? And perhaps also to have included some Mongol tribesmen (just 'cause I like the Copplestone minis so much)?
Title: OK, so prime me on this whole BoB racket
Post by: Poliorketes on September 02, 2007, 10:22:36 PM
Chinese vs. turkish central asian people would be no problem, think of Sinkiang. The only suitable Miniatures I know are pre-WW1 with old muzzle loaders, I use the Foundry Baluchis for afghan bandits.
Title: OK, so prime me on this whole BoB racket
Post by: Will Bailie on September 03, 2007, 02:03:23 AM
[/quote]ok but why Canadians ???
Quote


The Canadian Expeditionary Force (Siberia), aka CEF(S) consisted of a brigade sent to Vladivostok in 1918-1919.  No one really knew what to do with them, and they became the subject of a tug of war between the British War Office, which wanted to send them up the Trans-Siberian Railway to support the Whites, and Canadian government in Ottawa, which wanted them to be returned to Canada.  Ultimately, they returned to Canada, having done little besides wait in Vladivostok for the better part of a year. In an alternate history (as seems common with the Back of Beyond mythology), they could join their US and Japanese counterparts in aggressive military action along the Trans-Siberian.  (Note that in the real world, the Yanks also stayed in Vladivostok)

Canadians and Americans were both more active interventionists in North Russia (Murmansk and Archangel), but that is more "core" Russian Civil War than the actions out in the back of beyond.



No good miniatures for stuff like the khanates, Afghans, Tajiks, Khazaks etc, then?
Quote


Askari Miniatures has a nice range of Pathans, suitable for various Central Asian parts:  http://www.askari-minis.com/oscommerce/index.php?cPath=37

Foundry's NorthWest Frontier range will also provide good Central Asians.  The range has been archived, but is still available if you phone it in.

Old Glory Pathans will also be useful:  http://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/products.asp?cat=236

Cheers

Will
Title: OK, so prime me on this whole BoB racket
Post by: Poliorketes on September 03, 2007, 06:46:13 AM
As mentioned above, all of these is that they are slightly outdated for BoB.
Title: OK, so prime me on this whole BoB racket
Post by: Admiral Benbow on September 03, 2007, 02:56:21 PM
Quote from: hammershield
And these lovely parrots and idols (do you recognize the idol to the far right?)
(http://www.brigadegames.com/images/BGGL/BG-CEA001_sm.jpg)

Hammershield, where are those lovely parrots from? Need to get them for my pirates! Can't identify the idol - my eyesight, you know ... 8)

Thanks,
Title: OK, so prime me on this whole BoB racket
Post by: Hammers on September 03, 2007, 04:07:41 PM
Quote from: Admiral Benbow
Quote from: "hammershield"
And these lovely parrots and idols (do you recognize the idol to the far right?)
(http://www.brigadegames.com/images/BGGL/BG-CEA001_sm.jpg)

Hammershield, where are those lovely parrots from? Need to get them for my pirates! Can't identify the idol - my eyesight, you know ... 8)

Thanks,


Oh, I tyhought I said... They are from Brigade. The idol is the gold fertility idol from the Indiana Jones movie "Raiders of the Lost Ark".

(http://i22.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/b3/16/16ce_1.JPG)
Title: OK, so prime me on this whole BoB racket
Post by: Cory on September 03, 2007, 04:41:37 PM
The Canadian 68th battery of 57 men also served and saw extensive combat around Archangel in 1918, fighting along with the US units.
Title: OK, so prime me on this whole BoB racket
Post by: Rhoderic on September 04, 2007, 12:41:55 PM
What about Castaway Arts' Northwest Frontier?

http://www.castawayarts.com.au/catalog/catalog_main.php?cmd=groupload&group=27&PHPSESSID=85e174ba14a8354e7dc0c76885870af0

Same deal with being slightly out-of-date I suppose, but I'm starting to wonder if maybe I'm OK with that.
Title: OK, so prime me on this whole BoB racket
Post by: Poliorketes on September 04, 2007, 01:30:28 PM
If you could get some separate SMLEs or Mausers, you can easily convert Swordsmen.
Title: OK, so prime me on this whole BoB racket
Post by: PeteMurray on September 04, 2007, 01:34:04 PM
The thing that I find most attractive about this period is the incredibly gritty setting of it. It's almost like there was a mini-boom of old fashioned colonialism during the war, only this time fought by a crazy mix of professionals and mercenaries, and this time the natives got better guns on the market. Then you throw in various ideologues and their partisans, and the whole thing has endless potential for the sort of game where you shout patriotic slogans at your little lead Reds, or drive away leaving your allies in a lurch. It appeals to my inner roleplayer.
Title: OK, so prime me on this whole BoB racket
Post by: Rhoderic on September 04, 2007, 02:30:04 PM
I like the way the Back of Beyond is (in my mind) it's own self-contained world, where outside rules did not apply and just anyone could set about building his own little empire. It appeals to my inner escapist :)

Pete: I sent you an e-mail about receiving the mat today.
Title: OK, so prime me on this whole BoB racket
Post by: dodge on September 08, 2007, 02:39:23 PM
Quote from: "Rhoderic"
I like the way the Back of Beyond is (in my mind) it's own self-contained world, where outside rules did not apply and just anyone could set about building his own little empire. It appeals to my inner escapist :)

Pete: I sent you an e-mail about receiving the mat today.


I agree the setting is ideal for building empires , re writing history and having good mixed force battles and clashes of ideology. That's the sort of thing I want to game. :)
Title: OK, so prime me on this whole BoB racket
Post by: Evilcartoonist on September 19, 2007, 01:14:26 AM
Quote from: "Will Bailie"
Possible armies for a BoB campaign include (but are not limited to):

Central Asian tribesmen and Basmachis (Tajiks, Khazaks, and others)
Armies of the Central Asian khanates (such as Bokhara)
Tibetans
Chinese Bandits
Chinese Warlord (sometimes there is little to choose between the warlords and the bandits!)
Afghan army - somewhat better organised than their neighbouring Khazaks, Tajiks and the like, though that isn't saying much!
Bolsheviks (ie, Reds)
White armies (which generally encompasses all Russian opponents of the Bolos, not just the "official" Whites)
The rather bizarre White Russian army of Mad Baron von Ungern-Sternberg
Interventionists (both real and theoretical), including British and British Indian armies, Japanese, Americans, Turks and Canadians (no, really!)
The Czech Legion, who ran several armoured trains on various sections of the Trans-Siberian Railway.

There are opportunities for including Cossacks, Mongols, religious fanatics, tanks, armoured cars, armoured trains, aircraft, and more.  Lots of fun for everyone!


My favorite are fossil hunters! :)   I got into Back of Beyond after reading the book "Dragon Hunter" about the fossil-hunting expedition led by Roy Chapman Andrews. This expedition had to dodge Chinese bandits and warlord armies! Great pulpish (and true) alternative. Easier to put together this force, too (just a few vehicles and a few packs of characters.)

I'd read up on the area first and see what interest you before starting, Rhoderic. Good luck! :)