Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: ErikB on November 30, 2010, 06:17:35 PM
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I just met several neighbors who are Sikhs. I was wondering if someone can tell me a bit about their history with the British.
I know they fought with the Brits in both World Wars and earned quite a bit of respect. They are also known (at least here in California) as being rather remarkable doctors.
I am looking for two kinds of answers:
1) History for gaming (because it is, quite simply, fascinating), and
2) A sense of the relationships between the Brits and Sikhs over the past few centuries so I can learn enough to have meaningful conversations with my neighbors - and, importantly, to know enough to respect how they may feel about various events ranging from the World Wars to the Indian Mutiny to how Sikhs relate with Hindus, Muslims, Jainists, Christians, and Europeans in general.
Thanks a bunch.
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Originally pacifists, when their fifth guru was murdered by muslim moghuls they took up arms, and carrying a blade is one of the basic five tenants of their faith.
Fought against the Brits, like the Gurkhas.
Hired by Brits afterwards.. like the Gurkhas.
Loyal to Brits in Indian mutiny.
1/20 of population of British India, (IIRC)
1/3 of Indian volunteers who fought for Brits during WW1
1/4 of Indian troops who fought for commonwealth in WW2
Sikhism is seen as a persecuted faith in India, and a hard one to follow because of it.
A baptised Sikh in theory should be vegetarian, and not smoke or drink. So seen as reliable by British army.
Last Sikh who flew with RAF in battle of Britain only died a month or so ago.
But like many things it may be personal choice and feeling rather than culture just like everyone else.
http://www.sikhs.org/topics.htm
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Great summary Bungle :)
I've worked with a couple of Sikhs over the years - splendid fellows.
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Well, historically you'll want to start with the Anglo-Sikh wars between 1845 and 1849 (there were two). In a nutshell we annexed their country/territory and incorporated them into the Empire (it's what we did at the time). After which we took the time to get to know them a bit and discovered that they weren't that different to us in their opinions etc and were very proud of their military heritage and honour. As such they were incorporated into the Army almost immediately and served with distinction from that point on. In fact the British Army has a specific Sikh recruitment campaign to this day.
The Sihks are also probably the most accepted ethnic group in the UK.
I'll have a look for the title later but there was a recent short BBC documentory on the Sikhs recently which was rather good. I'd expect you can download it as a torrent or such.
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The Sikhs are also probably the most accepted ethnic group in the UK.
Yes, I'd agree with that, although Sikhism is of course a religion, rather than an ethnic group.
We treated the Sikh Empire pretty badly, really. Their last Maharaja was taken from India and lived out most of the rest of his life in Britain as a typical upper-class gentleman. Reputed to be one of the best shots in the country, apparently. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalip_Singh_Sukerchakia
But they don't really appear to bear much of a grudge...
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I recommend Flashman and The Mountain of Light for more info ;)
AX
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I recommend Flashman and The Mountain of Light for more info ;)
AX
Absolutely. The definitive source book - a brilliant work of comic fiction which will teach you more about the history of the Sikh Wars and surrounding episodes than any number of history text books :)
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Yes, I'd agree with that, although Sikhism is of course a religion, rather than an ethnic group.
You mean rather than a 'racial' group, an ethnic group shares the same beliefs and customs irrespective of race, i.e. Arab is a race, while Moslem is a (multi-)ethnic group. ;)
Sikhs are a very interesting group, I had the pleasure of knowing a few where I was brought up. With no offence intended either way, they are probably the one Eastern religion which comes closest to the traditional 'christian' beliefs of; equality of mankind (they reject the caste system), universal brotherhood and the belief in a single deity. They have five 'mortal sins'; lust, anger, greed, attachment to possessions and conceit. They value truth, equality, freedom and justice. They believe in Karma, but they aspire to avoid the reincarnation cycle via a union with God. Seva, the concept of 'service' often prompts individuals towards voluntary work as an adjunct to their normal working life, or at its simplest will involve helping a neighbour, or performing a kindness for them.
You might find that they will pop round with the odd meal or sweets etc, especially when a religious date approaches. Usually these will be vegetarian, so they can offer the same things to all of their neighbours/work colleagues without contravening anyone's dietary restrictions. If you go round to their home at any time, they will usually offer a lot of food - it would be polite to eat some, but not gorge yourself silly, particularly as they will keep bringing it if you eat what they've already brought out. The polite thing to do is to eat some and declare yourself full, everybody will be happy with that.
Obviously this doesn't hold true for all Sikhs as some are more westernised than others and have adopted the lifestyles of their host country. So you might get Sikhs that smoke or drink, cut their hair and not all of them wear the Turban. For those that do, the hair and Turban are sacred and great offence can be caused if they are touched, or some wise-ass tries to knock it off. They will also refuse point-blank to remove it if requested. Although carrying the Kurpan (dagger) is obligatory, many Sikhs often carry a symbolic one in the form of a small broach.
The usual mistake people make is to call the woman of the house Mrs Singh, she should be addressed as Mrs Kaur, unless she has been introduced as Mrs Singh (some Sikhs adopt the western tradition of sharing the same name when married). Female children will also be called Kaur (Kaur is also used in some male names in addition to Singh). Having said that, most Sikhs are easy-going about this, but you'll get plus points for getting it right. I'm not sure why they do this, but I suspect that as women have equal rights to men within the religion, it's to affirm that marriage is a joining and not one person becoming the property of, or subservient to, another. Though like most marriages, women wear the trousers in the home anyway. ;)
Showing an interest in their beliefs will be greeted warmly, so if you're curious, just ask. :)
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I knew a Sikh lady who called herself neither Singh nor Kaur, but Mrs. Panesar. Quite a formidable woman if you got on her wrong side. Not one to suffer foolish drunken Colonial Adventures Moderators staggering past her house singing loudly at Two O'Clock in the morning gladly. Though it must be said that any intervention she might have made in this (entirely hypothetical) situation was apt to raise the decibel level, turn the air bluer, and probably wake more people up than his singing would have.
While Sikhism is indeed a religion rather than a race, I think you'll find that most Sikhs are Punjabis. And though you talk of "Sikhs and Brits", don't forget that somewhere between 300,000 and 750,000 (depending on what statistics you believe) Sikhs are Brits.
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A baptised Sikh in theory should be vegetarian, and not smoke or drink. So seen as reliable by British army.
I used to know a couple that did the last two quite frequently :D (and probably not the first one lol )
cheers
James
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Here's a link to the program info I mentioned.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00vys5t
It's only 30mins long so won't tell you everything but I thought it was rather interesting.
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Very nice summing up guys. 8)
I'd just add:
The Sikh kingdom (Punjab) and religion date back to the 17th century. Espoused religious tolerance (and still do), very dignified and soldierly. They had a very professional army in the Khalsa trained after European lines under European instructors (many French exiles) by the time of the 1st Sikh War. After the EIC annexed Sinde and Gwalior in the early 1840s, bringing their territory to the Sutlej, the Sikhs crossed the river and one of the most fascinating C19th colonial wars ensued. Honourably defeated in both wars, the Punjab came directly under British influence. Loyal and prominent in their bravery and dilligence throughout the Great Mutiny, Sikh and other Punjabi units were among the most highly rated in the Indian Army formed in the wake of the mutiny and replacing the armies of the 3 presidencies of the EIC. Sikhs fought nobly alongside Tommy Atkins and Johnny Gurkha in every notable campaign for the next hundred years.
They are dignified, brave, stolid, reliable and have a natural soldierly bearing - no wonder they get along so well with of us British lol
www.gallopingmajorwargames.com
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They are dignified, brave, stolid, reliable and have a natural soldierly bearing - no wonder they get along so well with of us British lol
You know you can get yourself into a bit of bother if you swallow wholesale all that "martial races" tosh that the Raj brainwashed itself and its subjects with for 100 years. The Pakistanis convinced themselves that a Punjabi, a Pashtun or a Baluchi was worth ten weak and timid Hindus, because the Brits had told them it was so. They found to their cost that a weak and timid Hindu with a PIAT and some guts behind it brews up a Sherman just as well as anyone else, and the Martial Races theory was left bleeding in the dust of Rajasthan and the mud of Bengal. :)
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You know you can get yourself into a bit of bother if you swallow wholesale all that "martial races" tosh that the Raj brainwashed itself and its subjects with for 100 years. The Pakistanis convinced themselves that a Punjabi, a Pashtun or a Baluchi was worth ten weak and timid Hindus, because the Brits had told them it was so. They found to their cost that a weak and timid Hindu with a PIAT and some guts behind it brews up a Sherman just as well as anyone else, and the Martial Races theory was left bleeding in the dust of Rajasthan and the mud of Bengal. :)
Well said.
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Nah Plynkes, wasn't at all going down any kind of master race route, just thought I'd help to answer the original question by pointing out a bit more of the Anglo-Sikh relationship and their prominence in Anglo-Indian military history to someone who clearly stated a lack of knowledge of the subject.
After all, the majority of the EIC regiments (especially foot) who defeated the Sikhs in both Wars against them (alongside a few Queen's Regiments) were, oh yes... Hindus. ;)
Perhaps I could have given equal billing to all other Indian sub-continent historic military organisations, but that wouldn't have answered the question, and taken up loads more time.
I do very much like and respect Sikhs, but please don't assume that means I denegrate anyone or everyone else in comparison :) ... I don't really think that was what you were inferring, was it? lol
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Oh, no. I didn't assume you meant that at all. I wasn't meaning to attack you. I just thought it an interesting point, because I think we colonial gamers do sometimes tend to accept the assumption that certain Indian races are just automatically better fighters (at least on the tabletop). The Pakistanis bought into it in a big way, and it seriously bit them in the ass!
All I'm saying is that generalisations, both positive and negative, while sometimes useful, need to be taken with caution and a pinch of salt. You'll find plenty of Sikhs who aren't brave, don't have a soldierly bearing, and aren't particularly loyal if you look. I've met Sikhs I liked, some I was indifferent to, and a couple I just outright couldn't stand. Just like folks from any other culture, people are people. I think us wargamers can go a bit overboard with our gushing praise of Sikhs, because their soldiers make very cool toys for us to play with. But the full spectrum of humanity is there.
Oh, I don't know what I'm trying to say. This is getting a bit serious and deep for me. I'm going to go back to making daft remarks, I think. :)
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No problem, my parthian shot was more than a little tongue in cheek. I didn't really think you wanted to leave the subject behind and turn it into one of those "more PC than thou" discussions lol
www.gallopingmajorwargames.com
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You know you can get yourself into a bit of bother if you swallow wholesale all that "martial races" tosh that the Raj brainwashed itself and its subjects with for 100 years. The Pakistanis convinced themselves that a Punjabi, a Pashtun or a Baluchi was worth ten weak and timid Hindus, because the Brits had told them it was so. They found to their cost that a weak and timid Hindu with a PIAT and some guts behind it brews up a Sherman just as well as anyone else, and the Martial Races theory was left bleeding in the dust of Rajasthan and the mud of Bengal. :)
Yep, history does tend to rub people's noses in the muck of a misconceived but believed stereotype.
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Thanks for your answers, folks. I know this is a stereotype discussion. I recognize that and accept it as such.
But I have to start somewhere. Here is a fascinating culture and a cool opportunity to learn something from my neighbors but I'm just a dumb ol' white guy so I'm trying to educate myself a bit.
Also, re: the different races/groups/cultures/whatever - in wargames (games, mind you), are there differences between Hindu and Sikh and Muslim units' stats?
For example, Copplestone makes Muslim and Sikh WWI Brit soldiers (you can tell the difference by their "hats"). Would these guys have different characteristics in wargames? Just wondering. Yes, I know it's a stereotype and may have nothing at all to do with reality.
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Sikh troops do often get better stats than other Indian Army units in war games. Their fearsome reputation precedes them, and one certainly could make an argument that their historical performance justifies it.
The Sikh Regiment (which traces its history back to the days of the Raj) is one of the most decorated regiments in the Indian Army, possibly the most. 14 out of the 40 Indian recipients of the VC came from the units that became the modern Indian Army's Sikh Regiment upon independence.
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Fearsome? Somehow I think of the passionate Hindus as fearsome. My Sikh neighbors just seem on the ball and squared away (i.e. reliable, aware, and not error-prone).
(Yes, stereotype, I know).
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Yes, but I am talking about British views of their military qualities in the 19th and 20th Centuries, not what you think of your neighbours. :) That's precisely why stereotypes will only take you so far, and can then dump you in it!
The British thought of the Hindu population as docile, passive and stoic (but still feared that Hindu men lusted after our white women), and viewed the Muslims and Sikhs as the ones brimming over with warlike fervour that could be tapped into for the Empire's interests. We live in different times. Post-independence, confident and aggressive Hindu nationalism is a much more visible force to us, so the stereotypes aren't all the same as they once were.
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Plynkes, that makes good sense. Please, keep posting. It's helping me get oriented on this topic.
Despite being a fellow former British colony (the US & India) and being chock full of Indians here in Silicon Valley, I don't know a lot about the real history. In California's PC-culture it is hard to ask people about their previous homelands. It was much easier in Europe.
Different culture. We're kinda PC-facists here, which is very unfortunate.
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Dont know about any martial races - but could there possibly be something along the lines of a Martial Culture ?
If I understand it correctly, the Sikhs has something of a ingrained martial arts system going along in their religion.
and this will probably make it easier to transform into a more "outgoing" military application, being subjected to training from an early age.
(And they have made a nice show of it at "India got talent"... :D)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8hVyPhFK30 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8hVyPhFK30).
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Chiming in a bit late but in full agreement with Plynkes regarding the "martial races" nonsense. This was Victorian racial categorising at its most absurd, although the British were by no means the sole offenders in that respect : late 19th century Americans were bragging about the supremacy of the anglo-saxon "race" over all other cultural and religious groups, while the French were basking in the glory of the mission civilisatrice de la France. And I imagine other nations spouted more than their share of similarly dubious theories designed to prove their own superiority over everyone else
To put it simply, isn't the historically proven martial prowess of the Sikhs simply the result of them having to constantly fight for their kingdom for close to a century ? Non-stop warfare with your neighbours from 1748 till 1846 will produce a military culture in the long run and maintain a warlike spirit.
Also agree with the multi-ethnic nature of the Sikh state and the Sikh army until the British invasion of Punjab : we know that during the first and second Sikh wars of 1846 and 1848, the Khalsa counted many Muslims in its ranks, along with a fair proportion of Dogras and Hindustanis.
And since I'm in the mood for being pedantic, I'd disagree with Jim over one of his earlier posts : i certainly wouldn't call the Arabs a "race", but would rather define them as a linguistic and cultural group, the use of the Arabic language being their main common denominator.
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That video was ... different.
At least to Australia's Got Talent... I don't think they'd allow that sort of thing on stage because someone might get hurt! :'(
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There was talk for a few years of creating a Sikh regiment in the modern British Army. Prince Charles was pushing for it at one point and they reckoned they'd be able to get the numbers required from within the Sikh community in Britain if they were given their own unit. The idea was ditched a couple of years ago:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1555507/Sikh-regiment-dumped-over-racism-fears.html
I've learnt a lot in this thread. I didn't realise devout Sikhs aren't supposed to drink or eat meat. I've only known a couple mind, but both liked a pint.