Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Back of Beyond => Topic started by: Hammers on 01 December 2010, 08:47:48 AM
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...84 bucks? Seems rather stiff, doesn't it? Are Miniature Building Authority generally more expensive than other companies? A large factory from Empress is £35. That's about $50, innit?
(http://www.miniaturebuildingauthority.com/prodimages/25mm%20Middle%20Eastern/10717-1_large.jpg)
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That house is particularly nice - but $84!
The railing and enclosed balcony at rear would be hard to reproduce unfortunately.
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PMC on ebay do a painted table ready set of 7 buildings for £50:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/25MM-28MM-WARGAMES-ARAB-TUNISIAN-MIDDLE-EAST-TOWN-/270672123215?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item3f0550d54f
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Railing like that could be done nicely with laser-cut plywood to add to scratchbuilds; wonder if Litko or one of the other laser-cutter-wielding folks would consider it?
If I actually had a gaming budget right now, I'd consider approaching them about it; I've done a whole tableful of generic adobe buildings and details like that would nicely take them up a notch.
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I'm sure Malamute made something very similar for his Zorro game. Probably cost about £3.50 in material and maybe 10 hours work?
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I'm sure Malamute made something very similar for his Zorro game. Probably cost about £3.50 in material and maybe 10 hours work?
Oh, I am not in to buy anything, especially not at those prices. I am just scanning the market.
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PMC on ebay do a painted table ready set of 7 buildings for £50:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/25MM-28MM-WARGAMES-ARAB-TUNISIAN-MIDDLE-EAST-TOWN-/270672123215?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item3f0550d54f
That's actually quite a nice looking collection and very reasonably priced.
I have seen a lot worse for a lot more.
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Oh, I am not in to buy anything, especially not at those prices. I am just scanning the market.
Sure, I was just saying (clumsily) that it's possible to build something very similar yourself for a fraction of the cost, so this really is extortionate.
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Yes MBA are very expensive...but then again they do come pre-painted. I wish they offered them un-painted as I like to paint my own.
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MBA buildings usually come with lift-off roofs ans painted interiors as well. But you pay for all of that...
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That's actually quite a nice looking collection and very reasonably priced.
I have seen a lot worse for a lot more.
Don't get me wrong; I have about 100 PMC prepainted buildings myself (mainly framework houses bought at £9.99-£19.99 let alone other PMC stuff...) but this is a typical something one can do in an afternoon (or a day at the most, painted and all) if you set up a production line using cork and some urethane items from the craft shop.
I'm currently building up for Nam games (28mm) and needed a village (hooches). Based on Matakishi's idea, I have built a pilot model, but a bit more elaborated:
(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/geudens_photos/hut01.jpg)
(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/geudens_photos/hut03.jpg)
I never worked with cork before (it's great to cut, thanks Mata!), so concept, building and painting took me about 2.5 hours. I'm confident I can make a village in a day (which - in resin - would have set me back £ 100 without shipping, that's a lot of figures). I made this Arab village with lift-off roofs in one day ( made from that white architect's stuff 5 years ago):
(http://www.rudi-geudens.be/images/arab_village01.jpg)
It still needs a repaint (it's too light, so one of these days I'll let it pass under a Warpainter spraycan). An option worth considering. I haven't done this for budget reasons (I have also little enough hobby time as it is), but some things just can be done cheaper by oneself.
Rudi
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Neat houses! I really love the look of them. ;)
They will look outstanding on the tabletop!
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I'm in the process of trying to build some houses for a Cairo street scene and having done a bit of research found that most of the houses had these very same enclosed balconies. After much thought I came up with a very simple foamcore frame. Next is to clad it in some stripwood or strips of card cut into appropriate patterns and then get some mesh (the latter is the real sticking point). At first glance these look quite tricky but in practice a re quite simple to put together.
My buildings are basically modelled on these watercolours:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:1907_in_Egypt
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Rudi, move into real estate - with those models of yours and MBA prices you will be quids (gilders) in :D
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I'm sure Malamute made something very similar for his Zorro game. Probably cost about £3.50 in material and maybe 10 hours work?
Yes, I did, here it is:
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/1/86_25_08_08_2_08_56.jpg)
The reason why Jolly Bob remembers so well is he was playing Zorro in the game.
He leapt up onto the balcony did a bit of fancy sword play with the dastardly governor and then snogged his daughter ( who was sadly not the most fetching lady in town at the time, but he didn't seem to care...) :)
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http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:1907_in_Egypt
I tripped over those a while back (another link here at LAF? Can't recall...) and it got the building itch going again - and I've already got a tableful of Middle Eastern/Spanish/"generic Johnny Foreigner" buildings!
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Outside_the_Mosque_of_Ibrahim_Agha%2C_Cairo._%281907%29_-_TIMEA.jpg/512px-Outside_the_Mosque_of_Ibrahim_Agha%2C_Cairo._%281907%29_-_TIMEA.jpg) (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Outside_the_Mosque_of_Ibrahim_Agha,_Cairo._(1907)_-_TIMEA.jpg)
Outside the Mosque of Ibrahim Agha, Cairo. (1907) - TIMEA (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Outside_the_Mosque_of_Ibrahim_Agha,_Cairo._(1907)_-_TIMEA.jpg) [CC-BY-SA-2.5 (www.creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5)], by Tyrwhitt, Walter S.S., from Wikimedia Commons
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/The_Khan_el_Dobabiyeh_%28Dubabiyyah%29%2C_Cairo._%281907%29_-_TIMEA.jpg/512px-The_Khan_el_Dobabiyeh_%28Dubabiyyah%29%2C_Cairo._%281907%29_-_TIMEA.jpg) (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Khan_el_Dobabiyeh_(Dubabiyyah),_Cairo._(1907)_-_TIMEA.jpg)
The Khan el Dobabiyeh (Dubabiyyah), Cairo. (1907) - TIMEA (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Khan_el_Dobabiyeh_(Dubabiyyah),_Cairo._(1907)_-_TIMEA.jpg) [CC-BY-SA-2.5 (www.creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5)], by Tyrwhitt, Walter S.S., from Wikimedia Commons
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... and then snogged his daughter ( who was sadly not the most fetching lady in town at the time, but he didn't seem to care...) :)
Could you post a picture of that, please? lol
Rudi
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Rudi, move into real estate - with those models of yours and MBA prices you will be quids (gilders) in :D
Funny you should say that, but... been there, done that (about 25 years ago). Here's the proof of my venture:
http://www.rudi-geudens.be/html/tin_soldier_shop.htm
Glorious days! Casted between 500 - 1000 kg of raw material (resin/filler) a month, never made a penny from it though (one has to keep the consumer end price reasonable taking into account shipping, payment conditions & large discounts to UK, US & Aussie distributors, so margins were slim). It would be different now with the opportunities the internet offers...
Rudi
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I hadn't made anything for years but recently picked up a local art shop's entire supply of foam core for about £10 in their closing down sale. I also had some pulp type figures, had been watching "The Mummy" and decided to give it a go.
I can cut the basic "carcass" of a substantial building in an hour or 2 each night. The main thing that I've picked up on is how tall these buildings are and how very unlike the generic adobe buildings they are. Mine are coming out at about 8 - 10 inches tall. As I wanted interiors I initially toyed with lift off roofs, but this was never going to work with such tall, multi-storey buildings. My solution is to have them open backed (it also solves the problem of me not being able to find pictures of the backs of these buildings :).
So far I've got 4 building "carcasses". As soon as I can work out how to post pictures up here I will put up some WIP.
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I hadn't made anything for years but recently picked up a local art shop's entire supply of foam core for about £10 in their closing down sale. I also had some pulp type figures, had been watching "The Mummy" and decided to give it a go.
I can cut the basic "carcass" of a substantial building in an hour or 2 each night. The main thing that I've picked up on is how tall these buildings are and how very unlike the generic adobe buildings they are. Mine are coming out at about 8 - 10 inches tall. As I wanted interiors I initially toyed with lift off roofs, but this was never going to work with such tall, multi-storey buildings. My solution is to have them open backed (it also solves the problem of me not being able to find pictures of the backs of these buildings :).
So far I've got 4 building "carcasses". As soon as I can work out how to post pictures up here I will put up some WIP.
Please do.
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As I wanted interiors I initially toyed with lift off roofs, but this was never going to work with such tall, multi-storey buildings. My solution is to have them open backed (it also solves the problem of me not being able to find pictures of the backs of these buildings :).
Looking forward to seeing these!
One thing I've seen done for taller buildings, especially ones with fancy fronts, is making each additional floor as a three-walled "tray"; the whole front wall is a solid piece all the way up, and the floors have side and rear walls attached.
My brother has a partly-built hotel building done this way; one of these centuries it'll actually get finished, but at least the construction method is sound!
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I'm sure Malamute made something very similar for his Zorro game. Probably cost about £3.50 in material and maybe 10 hours work?
Yeah, but it would take a mortal more and that makes the price seem lower...
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MBA buildings usually come with lift-off roofs ans painted interiors as well. But you pay for all of that...
I suspect they also come with an actual mortgage.
Nice buildings but yes really overpriced vis a vis Empress, Brigade Games etc etc etc.
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The open backed design was inspired by my 4 year old daughter's dolls' house!
Hmm, hadn't thought of facades and removable "trays" - nice idea. As I've only glued one of the buildings together that idea may still be a goer. My only concern would then be having little trays littered around the playing area. I must cogitate. My next thought experiment will be in making larger squarer buildings, suitable for a museum and possibly a hotel, in such a way that they have accessible interiors.
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$84 dollars? no it not really overpriced for what it is. You might not want to pay that and you might be able to make or buy something cheaper, but if you want something really nice and ready to plop down on the table $84 is not that bad. I have done a fair amount of both building and casting everything from trees, to tanks and buildings and rtv rubber casting on that scale is not cheap! resin is getting more and more expensive and molds, especialy large ones that get quite hot as the resin sets dont last that long. Ad a nice paint job to it and $84 gets real reasonable quick. I bought quite a few grand manner 20mm WWII buildings 10 years ago or more and they were close to that and not painted. People in this industry have to make a living just like anyone else and to stay in bussiness you must turn a viable profit or you will be like a lot of miniature companies "belly up" after only a few short years. Its not everyones cup of tea but no one will be getting "jipped" but buying one if they have the cash but not the time or talent.
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$84 dollars? no it not really overpriced for what it is. You might not want to pay that and you might be able to make or buy something cheaper, but if you want something really nice and ready to plop down on the table $84 is not that bad. I have done a fair amount of both building and casting everything from trees, to tanks and buildings and rtv rubber casting on that scale is not cheap! resin is getting more and more expensive and molds, especialy large ones that get quite hot as the resin sets dont last that long. Ad a nice paint job to it and $84 gets real reasonable quick. I bought quite a few grand manner 20mm WWII buildings 10 years ago or more and they were close to that and not painted. People in this industry have to make a living just like anyone else and to stay in bussiness you must turn a viable profit or you will be like a lot of miniature companies "belly up" after only a few short years. Its not everyones cup of tea but no one will be getting "jipped" but buying one if they have the cash but not the time or talent.
I am sure you know how the market economy works. When Tabletop Works can make this...
http://www.tabletop-world.com/merchantsHouse.php (http://www.tabletop-world.com/merchantsHouse.php)
...and sell it at $80 I will certainly think they have the better product both in quality and price and act accordingly.
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The tabletop world building is nice, but it is unpainted and requires assemble. People like me who enjoy modelling and painting as much as gaming won't mind, and may even prefer that option. Those who want to get right to the gaming like my friend Lou (who seems to own at least one of every MBA product) would prefer to open the box and plop the building right onto the game board. There seems to be plenty of room in the hobby for those catering to both ends of the spectrum.
I should add that while I don't own any MBA products I know the owners and have shared a few beers with them at past conventions.
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The tabletop world building is nice, but it is unpainted and requires assemble. People like me who enjoy modelling and painting as much as gaming won't mind, and may even prefer that option. Those who want to get right to the gaming would prefer to open the MBA box and plop the building right onto the game board. There seems to be plenty of room in the hobby for those catering to both ends of the spectrum.
I think there is some misunderstanding here. I don't care if some of you are fine with forking out $83 dollars for the thing. Pay the double and it is no skin off my nose. I raised the question because I am interested to know, with my limited experience of buying resin scenery, whether this company charges more than others. It seems like it does. :)
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So it seems as if the point is being missed or the recent post not being completely read or understood. You asked if people thought the buildings are "overpriced" several of us said no not for what you get (that’s an answer) we then gave our reasons for our positions they while maybe expensive if you do not have the money they are not a rip off if you do. I even gave some of the economic facts to back up my thoughts, that’s all. Not trying to be adversarial but if you compare products of equal quality and amount of work (both cast and finished, cleaned, mold lines removed, painted) and from a company that is making enough profit to stay in business for more than a few years then no the buildings are not overpriced.
One of the other idiosyncrasies of this hobby is also that people and companies value their labor or efforts in widely varying price range, look at painters, figure manufactures, terrain companies and individuals. One person will pay a lot of money for a figure painted by a certain painter, the next person would rather have 5 figures paint by another figure painter, and does that invalidate the price of the first painter? No, it just means like all creative hobbies “Price is in the eye of the beholder!” ;D
Many people think Foundry figures are overpriced, maybe, but I like them and think they are not outlandish. I know that foundry will be there next year so I may buy the other half of the figure line. That kind of stability takes money. They retire lines and redo the molds, again money…. :'(
Ok, nuff from me as I want to work on my Samurai! Merry Christmas to one and all and I hope “Hammers” I have not made anyone mad with my thoughts…..just thought I would reply with “my” feelings to help… lol
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Many people think Foundry figures are overpriced, maybe, but I like them and think they are not outlandish. I know that foundry will be there next year so I may buy the other half of the figure line. That kind of stability takes money. They retire lines and redo the molds, again money…. :'(
Ok, nuff from me as I want to work on my Samurai! Merry Christmas to one and all and I hope “Hammers” I have not made anyone mad with my thoughts…..just thought I would reply with “my” feelings to help… lol
Hmm... I don't really want to get into this, but how can you be sure Foundry will still be around next year? I personally wouldn't bet money on ANY company for that matter and - to be on the safe side - I always tend to buy whatever I think I will (do) need (you know, wargamers... lol) when it becomes available (as a sufficiantly complete range, if the case). If not, I won't touch it.
Your reasoning about Foundry (or GW for that matter) might be correct, but you forget that these companies have a history of (temporarily or not) "retiring" ranges, so where does one stand then?
For the record: I'm not against Foundry, but I do oppose their "selective shipment charges", which is why I prefer to buy from others nowadays.
Merry X-mas to you too,
Rudi
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Missed you at the "Bengal Club Christmas" party!...lol! Merry Christmas! I guess the drive home would be a bit far…
You are right there is no way "to be sure" of a company or anything being around in a year but I spoke more of a likelihood based on their operations for over 10 years. The earth might be hit by a comet in which case I'm pretty sure I won’t be painting anyway! I have NEVER been a fan of games workshop as they retire lines to be able to sell new lines. Foundry’s policy is more of a rotation based on several factors, popularity, age of molds, and the fact that their lines are so extensive that they cannot produce all of them at the same time. Yes they do have some policies that drive us crazy but they still have some great product lines! I have been wanting to buy one of the complete sets in their “old West” line but one of the subsets in it is “zombie gunfighters” when I asked if I could substitute a historical set for figures I would never use I got a flat “ “no!” needless to say I have yet to order that set!
Merry Christmas to all! Bill W
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Missed you at the "Bengal Club Christmas" party!...lol! Merry Christmas! I guess the drive home would be a bit far…
You are right there is no way "to be sure" of a company or anything being around in a year but I spoke more of a likelihood based on their operations for over 10 years. The earth might be hit by a comet in which case I'm pretty sure I won’t be painting anyway! I have NEVER been a fan of games workshop as they retire lines to be able to sell new lines. Foundry’s policy is more of a rotation based on several factors, popularity, age of molds, and the fact that their lines are so extensive that they cannot produce all of them at the same time. Yes they do have some policies that drive us crazy but they still have some great product lines! I have been wanting to buy one of the complete sets in their “old West” line but one of the subsets in it is “zombie gunfighters” when I asked if I could substitute a historical set for figures I would never use I got a flat “ “no!” needless to say I have yet to order that set!
Merry Christmas to all! Bill W
Exactly my point too (at last found someone who hates zombie games just as much as I do...). As far as the X-mas party is concerned, you've got a point there. As it happens, the incoming message on my pc just prior to this one was a TBC one on the X-mas pics. I've already commented on that on the private TBC Yahoo group.
Still, a merry X-mas & a happy 2011 to all of you,
Rudi (at his post in deepest, darkest Europe... lol)