Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: Jaeger on December 01, 2010, 08:36:36 PM
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I must warn you. There will be models which do not agree with lead-loving miniature fans in this post. Don't choke on your tea. :)
I've resently tried Cyberfire (another Crossfire clone) and I find the game truely inspirational. It makes you think tactics in a new way in wargaming imo.
I've started a Cyberfire gang based on Canids (GW Orks with Wolf heads), but this thread will be about my own little project.
Mechfire where platoons/lances of mechs and their support elements combat each other using modified Crossfire rules.
A Platoon/Lance of mechs and their Command vehicle (platoon leader):
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/MF3.jpg)
A decimated tank squadron on the move:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/MF4.jpg)
The Company commander oversees the battle from his Helicopter here protected by mechs:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/MF2.jpg)
A Scout Mech lurks through the streets of the city:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/MF5.jpg)
Artillery:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/MF6.jpg)
Battlefield (needs some work and mending):
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/MF1.jpg)
If you're not a fan of paper mechs you could field Battletech, Mechwarrior Clix or any kind you want really. I just find great pleasure in building these bad boys out of paper and cardboard.
/Jaeger
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I think the paper mechs look great. Personally I can never make paper kits properly so I've given up trying but yours look splendid.
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Thanks. :)
Should anyone feel like giving it a go you can download them here btw:
http://www.bricksite.com/paperwar?id=325904
So far I've just started on the unit stats.
Mech 4d, regular
CC Mech 3d, regular, cc bonus
Tank 3d, green or regular
Scout Mech 3d, Veteran
Artillery, undecided
All units are treated as infantry (not vehicles) btw.
I'll be adding unit upgrades as I get to play more games and figure out what the game and tactics can handle.
/Jaeger
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I'm so happy that you liked it!
And psyched that another Dane has succumbed to the aberration that is CF.
I'll happily be available to help you out in playtesting and fnahhemeha,... I seem to fall short of words, but I'd happily help with whatever I can happily help with.
Now that's a lot of happy from me in one post.
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I can feel the happy pouring into this thread.
Thank you Dr. :D
And yes I truely enjoyed the game (even though I lost). But more over I see great potential for missions, special deployment and it fits neatly with my vision of Mech scale wargaming.
And it's so different from anything I've ever tried. At the beginning of the game I thought "this can't be right, what's the fun in this", but I must admit that I found it very interesting and tactical as the game progressed.
/Jaeger
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And yes I truely enjoyed the game (even though I lost). But more over I see great potential for missions, special deployment and it fits neatly with my vision of Mech scale wargaming.
I agree completely. I don't have that much experience with the game either but so far your description is exactly as I see the game.
I must admit that I do like the bases with figs on too though. But using it for mechs is very clever. Especially as you have large models to use. If you used 10mm scale models I think the table would look a bit boring with only 10 mechs a side.
And it's so different from anything I've ever tried. At the beginning of the game I thought "this can't be right, what's the fun in this", but I must admit that I found it very interesting and tactical as the game progressed.
My first sentiments too I think. I recall a very weird sensation just pushing the miniature forward without a ruler. lol
The simplicity really puts it in the box of "thinking games" I think.
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All units are treated as infantry (not vehicles) btw.
I treat all units the same in my Crossfire games, everything moves like infantry, the vehicle rules as written are a bit poor. I've got rules for car chases somewhere.
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That looks fun! I like the paper look, it looks like one of those cell-shaded video games...
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Thank you.
I actually designed the mechs myself (forgot to mention that earlier).
They're kind of modular design with a different torso and cockpit. The camo patterns however are kind of "borrowed" from the internet.
/Jaeger
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I think the paper mechs look great. Personally I can never make paper kits properly so I've given up trying but yours look splendid.
Ditto!! They are really well put together. If they had some raised panels added and were painted instead of having a printed colour scheme, nobody would be able to tell they were paper from thus pics.
Very nice indeed.
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Thank you. I'm no master in paper modelling, but it can be quite fun.
I've been giving the rules some thought and I might want to give the different Mech models abilities that fits their design:
Ronin
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/RoninAlpha.jpg)
Superior targeting system (re-roll one die roll of 1 each shooting)
Tunguska
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/TunguskaCharlie.jpg)
Heavy Armour (forces enemy to re-roll one die roll of 6 each shooting)
Cyclops
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/NewCyclops1.jpg)
Implaceable advance (ignores pin result when charging)
Viper
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/USMoD2.jpg)
High yield reactor (?)
Close Combat weapons could be used like this:
1 Combat Fist: -1d Fire, +1CC
2 Combat Fists: -2d Fire, +2CC
A bit of testing is needed naturally.
/Jaeger
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very cool Stuff,i like the Cell shading Look.I would do the Terrain/Gameboard Scenery also in Paper Models :-X
The Cyclops Mech is my Fave so far :)
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Oh, I already made some buildings:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/MechBuildings.jpg)
And an airplane for an ojectve perhaps?
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/Airplane.jpg)
And a monstrous Destroyer Mech (not really suited for the game though):
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/QuadMech3.jpg)
/Jaeger
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:o :o :o Paper Wars,very impressive!
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Did those new ones come from the paperwar website? I cant find them :`
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Did those new ones come from the paperwar website? I cant find them :`
was a joke,i didnt knew that a Paperwar Site exists... ::)
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Sorry no. They're experimental. Although they are made out of the same components as the mechs (minus wings, wheels and tail of the airplane).
In time I might decide to put them up. Also all markings (stars, numbers etc.) aren't on the paperwar website.
I'm also doing some APCs for my older models so i can get playing asap. In time I hope to make 2 or more Mech companies for Mechfire.
Here's my old 58th Lance "The Bulldogs" comprised solely by Cyclops and their command vehicle (Platoon Commander):
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/CyclopSquad.jpg)
/Jaeger
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was a joke,i didnt knew that a Paperwar Site exists... ::)
The site he linked to in the first post, the one the paper models came from is actually called that. lol
I will try my hand at building some myself, I must say your work looks very clean and crisp, something paper models often should look but end up lacking.
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Tho paper mechs are really nice, and you've done a good job constructing them. They have a style all their own that works really well.
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Thank you all for the nice comments. :)
Feel free to ask any questions about assembling the models. I haven't made instructions, but I'll be happy to post more pictures of the models, so you might get an idea of what goes where.
/Jaeger
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Just wondering where the rules can be found?
Thanks in advance,
Michel
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Well Crossfire is a bit hard to come by. It's apperently not in print atm. but you can find more info here:
http://crossfire.wargaming.info/
Another great resource for Crossfire and what it can be used for is here:
http://www.matakishi.com/
There's also a nice QRS to be downloaded there.
I'll personally be changing a bit here and there, but the game mechanics will more or less be the same as Crossfire (I'll post these changes here when I get to it).
/Jaeger
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Crossfire is still available from Caliver Books.
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Ah thanks. Didn't know that.
I've finished the first Tank Platoon:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/TankPlatoon.jpg)
And I think I'll be using the following CC modifiers:
Artillery Tank -2
Battle Tank -1
Scout Mech 0
Mech +1 (and further bonuses for CC arms)
/Jaeger
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Sorry, I meant where is the Mechfire and Cyberfire clones of Crossfire.
It was late here when I posted, AND I'm sick, And my wife won't sing, "Soft Kitty"to me. :'(
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Ah. Sorry.
Well there isn't really a Mechfire or Cyberfire rulesystem as such. They are mere modifications of the Crossfire system.
Different troop types, modifications to CC and Fire modifiers etc.
No army lists or such, but Mechfire might have some in time.
Think of it as Crossfire but with different miniatures (that have a few special rules).
/Jaeger
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I think the paper mechs look great. Personally I can never make paper kits properly so I've given up trying but yours look splendid.
Ditto!! They are really well put together. If they had some raised panels added and were painted instead of having a printed colour scheme, nobody would be able to tell they were paper from thus pics.
Very nice indeed.
Ditto the ditto, save I must now hate you for how well they look, but the lead painters in these parts are quite used to my envious enmity, so don't take it personally. ;->=
Doug
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Ha, ha. Don't worry. I'm a hater too. Have to be (union rules and stuff lol )
But right now I happy that I only need two more mechs to complete two forces:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/AlmostThere.jpg)
/Jaeger
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One down:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/RedStarViper.jpg)
..and one to go.
This is the Viper model, and it will have the Alpha Strike special ability.
Alpha Strike will enable the mech to add dice to it's Fire, but the mech will afterwards be suppressed (but not lose the initiative).
Any thoughts on how many dice would be fair? 1d or 2d?
/Jaeger
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The last mech is ready for folding and glue, but in the meantime I've been upgrading MechCity.
A mech lance stalks through MechCity, while a tank platoon lies in wait:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/MechCity.jpg)
/Jaeger
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I've finished the last mech:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/RusCyclops.jpg)
Now I'll need a few more buildings, and the game is good to go.
I'm thinking about making a helicopter unit and making a special APC for the Company Commander instead.
However I haven't got a clue about what the helicopters should play in the game yet.
/Jaeger
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Lovely paper models, really impressive, I haven't got the skill to put together a paper model lol Keep it up!
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Fortunately my models aren't very complex. They're modular boxes that simply are glued together.
As a little gimmic the newer types are equiped with magnets, so they can torso twist or you could change to another model simply by changing the top half (hereby also saving time making complete models every time).
/Jaeger
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It's been a while, but I'm finally moving forward with this project.
I'm currently adding a lot more buildings for scenary:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/MechfireBuildings.jpg)
And I've made a base for the gigantic Mantis Destroyer:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/MantisDestroyer.jpg)
/Jaeger
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Thank you very much. :)
They mechs are actually quite simply, when you compare them with other available papercraft mechs. I print them on stiff paper (so it still will go through my printer), cut them out and glue them together.
I'm a gamer more than a papercraft-person, so I wanted some I could make at a reasonable rate (hence the simplicity).
One of the regular mechs takes me about an evenings work to cut out and assemble.
There's a few errors on some of the models on bricksite. I'll fix them when I get around to it (some places the camo job has shifted for unknown reasons).
For Mechfire I'll also be needing a lot of area terrain too, but I think I'll stick with the forests we use in W40K (for now).
/Jaeger
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Nice and simple, as wargames should be imho :)
I wish the textures on the vehicles would be better, but that's obviously not your fault. Just too much mediocre stuff out there. More paper models should have the quality of WWG and Dave Graffam.
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Well actually it is my fault. I've designed the mechs.
But I'm lazy and no good at texturing.
So I've simply made the mech layouts as empty boxes with a little detail and made the boxes "see-through" in ppt. Then I simply "borrow" a camo-layer from the net and put it underneath in ppt.
I then convert the ppt to pdf for down-load.
I know it's very simplistic, but It's about the best I can do.
/Jaeger
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Nah it's ok. But thanks.
I don't even have a proper drawing or 3D program. All the mechs are done using only Paint and PPT.
/Jaeger
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Well if you did the textures and models yourself then ignore my comment, since it's a personal project that entirely depends on the creator's time, money, and graphics program experience resources. And In this case I have to say that you did a great job. I assumed you bought these off
RPGNow or someplace which is full of such stuff, only of course for a price that I feel is often not justified for the quality they deliver :)
I would also like to suggest to edge the models, it really enhances their look. It's done best before glueing anything.
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I love it and I can't wait to see a nicely dressed up table with lots of mechs buzzing around.
Some lichen clumps would do nicely for this too I think.
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First off I'd like to say those are some excellent models :-)
But I'm more interested in the Crossfire bit …
I read the rules when they came out and fell in love with them, played a couple of games and hated them :-)
All our games degenerated into immobility and boredom. I have to assume we were doing something seriously wrong or nobody would be talking about them still. It was a while ago and I can't really remember exactly what happened but I'd love to be able to revisit this system as an alternative to the normal turn based system.
Was there ever a large scale medieval/ancient/fantasy version out there? … not sure it would work for this though.
Cheers
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video related (kind of)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCwn1NTK-50
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@Scurv: Ha, ha. Made my day. :D
@Cherno: Yeah. Time, money and program is a factor.
@Dr. The Wiking: Indeed. That would work nicely.
@shredder: I can see how that could happen. I found this guide that might help:
http://crossfire.wargaming.info/2000/tips-for-the-crossfire-novice/#more-112
I don't have to much experience with the Crossfire rules, but I think with a little adjustment it might work.
I don't think the Crossfire rules are suitable for competative play as is. It relies heavily on a good mission and good scenary set-up in order to work.
I think that the crossfire rules could be adjusted to fit almost any period, but it requires some adjustment and a lot of thought.
Speaking of scenary I just added these concrete walls to my collection:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/MechfireWalls.jpg)
/Jaeger
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@shredder: I can see how that could happen. I found this guide that might help:
http://crossfire.wargaming.info/2000/tips-for-the-crossfire-novice/#more-112
I don't have to much experience with the Crossfire rules, but I think with a little adjustment it might work.
I don't think the Crossfire rules are suitable for competative play as is. It relies heavily on a good mission and good scenary set-up in order to work.
I think that the crossfire rules could be adjusted to fit almost any period, but it requires some adjustment and a lot of thought.
I must say that I disagree wholeheartedly with at least two of those statements. First and foremost I believe Crossfire is perfectly capable of handling competitive play. Simplicity is the key here in my opinion. Bearing on the likes of Chess and other games Crossfire is really so simple that you can fiddle around rules lawyerly all you want to but you wont get anywhere.
What might be a bugger though is making 'lists' - but that has nothing to do with the actual game mechanics. In any game with unequal sides (= different setup of units on each side) there will be an imbalance.
So instead of focusing on lists one should focus on ready made scenarious and give them all the competetive spirit one has, if one has any at all.... or just have fun if one has fun to be had.
If you want to be really competetive you could let Player A take side A first and PLayer B take side B. Then after that game is played out sides switch so Player A controls side B and vice versa. The true victor will then be the player that wins no matter what units he has at his disposal...
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@shredder: I can see how that could happen. I found this guide that might help:
http://crossfire.wargaming.info/2000/tips-for-the-crossfire-novice/#more-112
Cheers, I'll take a look and maybe get somebody to give it another go :-)
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@Dr. The Wiking: Yeah. Lists will be very hard to balance. I also wrote "as is". The game suggest 33% terrain, while the guide (I linked to) suggest 50% or more. Also the guide suggest that both players have some sort of artillery to break deadlocks. I also remebered us discussing the time factor at Horisont. This should be adressed at competative play imo.
I've been adding a few more houses and walls to my collection. I'll be getting a game in on the 12th, so I have to fill a 4'x6' table by then.
I'm also contemplating making a third force named "Eurocorps":
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/EUForce.jpg)
The insignias are "10. Panzerdivision" and "Eurocorps".
/Jaeger
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I finally have enough buildings for my gaming table:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/MechCity1.jpg)
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/MechCity2.jpg)
/Jaeger
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And a few pictures with the opposing forces:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/MechCity3-1.jpg)
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/MechCity4-1.jpg)
And a damage marker(1 for pinned and 2 for suppressed):
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/MechDmg.jpg)
/Jaeger
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Jaeger: Did you create those concrete walls also? Or are they from somewhere else?
I like your mech designs a lot. I might print out and play with a few myself. I've thought about playing a giant robot game of some sort, but never had the enough interest to put together and paint the models.
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Thanks. :)
The walls and buildings are not my design. I simply don't have the time/tools/skill. I did create all the vehicles and mechs (minus camo patterns).
I "borrow" images from the net and piece them together, so they can be cut/folded/glued into something usefull.
For the wall I found an image of a concrete wall. Stretched it a bit and copied it, so it made a box. I added a nice sci-fi door (I found somewhere else) on a few of the walls.
It might not be quite kosher, but I don't sell or distribute anything. It's all for my personal amusement.
For good images I often add search words such as "skin" or "texture".
/Jaeger
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I "borrow" images from the net and piece them together, so they can be cut/folded/glued into something usefull.
For the wall I found an image of a concrete wall. Stretched it a bit and copied it, so it made a box. I added a nice sci-fi door (I found somewhere else) on a few of the walls.
anything printable,PDF perhaps? ;) i could have use for a few dozen of those Walls ;D
Stunning Work Man,thats the best Mech Gaming Table ive ever seen,very,very, nice!
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Thanks. :)
I feel uneasy with putting the walls up for downloading. A bit too copyright-ish I'm affraid.
I finally got to test the game.
We played with 3 objectives (the red circles):
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/Bord.jpg)
We used an egg-timer set for 1 hour to determine game-time. The egg timer was then put away, so neither player knew if the end was close. Each objective was worth 1 point if you had a stand within 1 stand and LOS.
The red lines were used for deployment zones.
The game was very fast and initiative changed rapidly, so I didn't get a chance to take pictures (had to much fun playing actually), but I took these "after action" pictures:
My tanks holds a corner objective (The truck):
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/MechKamp3.jpg)
My Supressed Mech holds the center objective (a downed plane), but the enemy has fought their way through one flank and is about to overrun the center. Fortunately the egg-timer rang just then. Phew!:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/MechKamp2.jpg)
It was a tough battle as you can see from the "dead pile":
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/MechKamp1.jpg)
/Jaeger
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Brilliant! ;D ;D
I like you kept the time limiting. I don't think that's in the original Crossfire is it? ???
Now get those Canids done so my Tiger Force can Crossfire them lol
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Yeah I really enjoyed the time limit you introduced me to.
I'm sure it can be abused, but players who stall will only play me once. ;)
Yes, yes. But I'm not really in "painting zone" and I have to many other painting projects that has priority I'm affraid.
And a little tech stuff about the battle:
We each had a force of 1 Veteran CC (who also doubled as FO), 1 unit of Veteran Mechs, 1 Unit of Regular Mechs and 1 unit of Regular Tanks. We also had 6 Fire Missions with 3D6 Barrage or 3 stand smoke (both required 3+ on D6 to work).
Mechs were 4D6 Direct Fire and +2 CC
Tanks were 3D6 Direct Fire and +0 CC
We didn't use Ground Hugging as it felt a bit artificial for mechs and tanks.
The Buildings and walls worked really well, but we both agreed, that a bit more area terrain would be good for movement purposes.
After the game we discussed how the mechs could have special abilities according to type, and we came up with the following:
Tunguska - (heavy armour) may force one attacker to re-roll one hit result of 6 pr. initiative.
Ronin - (improved targeting system) may re-roll one hit result of 1 pr. initiative.
Cyclops - (brutal assault) ignores "pin" result by reactive fire when moving into close combat.
Viper - (alpha strike) may add D6 to one attack but is auto-pinned and "No Fire" for the rest of the initiative.
Scout - (lightning fast) Receives protective cover when moving from LOS blocking terrain to LOS blocking terrain.
Mantis Destroyer
Heavy guns - 5D6 direct fire (front arc), 4D6 direct fire (side arc). Can only use 1 arc at the time.
Implaceable advance - +1 to Rally when Pinned
Hard to bring down - (2 kills to bring down, but needs a bit of work).
Feel free to comment if you see any pit-falls in the abilities.
/Jaeger
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I've had some comments on the fact the the woods seem out of place in an all cardboard setting. So I've decided to make the woods also:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/MechWoods.jpg)
/Jaeger
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Played around with the Black&White function for ppt. Amazing how it almost makes even carboard mechs look real:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/BWMechs.jpg)
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/BWMechs2.jpg)
:)
/Jaeger
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:o Amazing! Would really love to have the print out for the plane, helicopter, and artillery. I cant seem to find the print for the big four legged mech on your site though :\ . Would love to see these on tabletop playing with my friends. Have you considered making a jeep perhaps or human infantry?
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Hey, do you think you could take some pictures of the Scout mechs feet? I'm just getting started on these mechs and I'm a little confused. ???
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Oh. I haven't been on for a while. Been dabling a bit too much with 6th edition 40K.
I haven't planned any infantry or smaller vehicles, but you never know.
I'll be sure to add a photo of Scout mech foot, but basicly it's 3 toes glued to the base. Nothing fancy.
/Jaeger
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So then, how does the leg attach to the foot?
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Like this:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/BelialPhoto/FootDetail.jpg)
I'll make a detailed assembly guide at some point. The weapon mounting can be quite tricky, if you don't know how it's done.
/Jaeger