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Other Stuff => Workbench => Tutorials => Topic started by: YPU on 01 January 2011, 08:15:18 PM
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My find of dirt cheap giant fungi have reinvigorated my plans of making a modular hex underground board. (another topic on that soon probably) But I was wondering if anybody knows a good way for making Stalagmites? scale wise I think there is little difference as the things come in all sizes. (I plan to do some sci-fi 6mm batlles on the board as well, underground cities and all)
I have tried "sharpening" foam with a drmmel and against a fixed band saw but both methods took far longer then they were worth and did not give great results. I tried folding a cone shape and building up filler around it but that did not give a natural look either, does anybody have any advice?
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have reinvigorated my plans of making a modular hex underground board.
'tis a good plan. Mine has stalled since I started working full time again doing silly hours but it works very well.
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Not something to be done indoors (If at all!) but how about heating then stretching and twisting styrene sprue?
Edit:
For something thicker, how about a screw epoxied to a base then something like plumbers putty worked around the thread, tapering to a point?
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'tis a good plan. Mine has stalled since I started working full time again doing silly hours but it works very well.
I plan to go for a bit of a reverse build up, I will paint the boards themselves black and the tunnel floors will be build up upon them, using 2cm thick foam. any line drawn trough black is blocked, this saves me the time of building good looking walls (quite hard I find) and saves a lot of pain when using the board. I was somewhat unsure about this idea at first but we use pretty much the same idea with flat tiles and black underground in RPG's and that always works perfectly.
anyhow I want some "forests" of stalagmites, and stalactites that touch the ground, to place around the board. I have 40 mushrooms already and boulders should be easy to create.
I feel hexes make for a far more realistic looking board as the caves do not conform to square patterns we are prone to think in. Also creates far more variations when done right.
@ Silent invader hm, I could try that but with Papier-mâché and texture paint perhaps, cheap and not to hard I suppose.
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A KINDRED SPIRIT...you have my condolences. I'm also working on a subterranean beasty; in my case, it's an alternate Mordheim setting....I'm using Hang Son Doong as a model AND, since the main gaming table is a hexagon set up to accommodate Geo-Hex tiles, quite a lot of the pieces will be hexagons...right now I'm doing a 3'X3' chamber.
I've had reasonably good luck making stalagmites from floral foam cones roughed up with a saw &/or a hot knife foam tool, then covering the thingy with Woodland Scenics Foam Putty. This also works for Mega-Mushrooms...the latest batch are more or less 9"/23cm tall. I'll P.M. you when I put up photos here or you can check it out here: http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t4674-maudeheim-city-of-the-stoned-updated-12-26-10 .
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(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_YgOzHmVzYc0/TMCUV5M2aZI/AAAAAAAACM0/-fAW2qG6aBI/s912/P1170888.JPG)
I did these by punching some holes in wet sand and pouring plaster into them. Glued them on some board and painted it. Don't know if that's any use to you... lol
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I did these by punching some holes in wet sand and pouring plaster into them. Glued them on some board and painted it. Don't know if that's any use to you... lol
I think yours have a great feel to them, but they don't really look like "normal" stalagmites to me. I have been trying to figure out why and I think its the smoothness they lack, stalagmites are formed by dripping water and it shows. (Mind I still think yours are awesome.
Actually thinking about it I am considering dripping plaster or something similar into stalagmite shape, not unlike how a child playing at the beach might make them. Normal plaster would fall over or "melt" tough, I'm afraid, so I suppose I need something faster drying, do it layer by later and let each one dry in between.
Hm, I might try to once again carve a base shape from foam and then run PVA over it, we all know how that can create drop shaped runners, which in this case is exactly what I'm looking for.
Lastly if you search the web there are a number of school science experiments that simulate stalactite and stalagmite formations, perhaps one of them produces durable results? Something to look in to.
EDIT: http://www.flinnsci.com/Documents/demoPDFs/EarthSci/ES10387.pdf Seems to be an interesting experiment, takes a while but I have space to store it, magnesium sulpfate I'm not entirely sure how east it is to acquire. (might have a can of it in that old chemistry set for all I know) but it also says baking soda can be used as well. Worth a try!
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Not sure how the chemicals would last in real life but you may be able to get a cast from http://www.sciencekids.co.nz/projects/stalactite.html or http://www.tudayshobbymodels.com/prd_scientificexplorer_stalagmites_kit
Look at the series of videos from Woodland scenics this set has a great DIY cave based on their mountain kit.
Part two (3:50 ish) has the tites and mites:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e92RiDkcEcU
Andrew
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Not sure how the chemicals would last in real life but you may be able to get a cast from http://www.sciencekids.co.nz/projects/stalactite.html or http://www.tudayshobbymodels.com/prd_scientificexplorer_stalagmites_kit
Look at the series of videos from Woodland scenics this set has a great DIY cave based on their mountain kit.
Part two (3:50 ish) has the tites and mites:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e92RiDkcEcU
Andrew
Sorry, but I found this humorously unimpressive. lol
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I will try the baking soda approach, I'm guessing that it will take a few weeks but perhaps some extra paint will make it sturdy enough, else I will need to cast them indeed. (or go for the PVA approach mentioned before)
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Sorry, but I found this humorously unimpressive. lol
But 'Miss Kelly' was there with helpful hints lol
cheers
James
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You can achieve a quite organic rock finish by using layers of tissue paper over polystyrene (or whatever) as a base shape. Once it is soaked in a mixture of PVA and paint (your choice of colour), if you brush down from the apex of the 'mite, I think you'd get a good ripply/drippy rock finish.
You might also try experimenting with dripping hot glue over a nail (or something) - you can get some very organic shapes with that.
I find PVA evaporates too much to get any decent textures (or perhaps I'm doing it wrong).
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We have a product here called Celluclay which is just a finely chopped papier-mâché. I've used it to build very convincing stalagmites and stalagmites by using a dowel rod as a core and building up layers of papier-mâché. If you leave a bit of the dowel uncovered it works to anchor the piece into foam. Fast food chopsticks and bamboo skewers work really well for this.
I don't have access to any of the ones I've made but the process is pretty simple to figure out assuming you can find a finely chopped, pre made papier-mâché. Or get an old blender, some glue, and a lot of newspapers.
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We have a product here called Celluclay which is just a finely chopped papier-mâché. I've used it to build very convincing stalagmites and stalagmites by using a dowel rod as a core and building up layers of papier-mâché. If you leave a bit of the dowel uncovered it works to anchor the piece into foam. Fast food chopsticks and bamboo skewers work really well for this.
I don't have access to any of the ones I've made but the process is pretty simple to figure out assuming you can find a finely chopped, pre made papier-mâché. Or get an old blender, some glue, and a lot of newspapers.
Celluclay is the dogs bollocks with the only disadvantage that it has a mighty powerful shrinkage factor.
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Wax might be a good material for the drip method.
Might also be able to simulate the drip method's results by building up using tiny pinches of putty in place of drips.
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This subject gave me a hankering to sign up. Caulking/Liquid Nails and toothpicks/skewers work well. Expanding foam makes for a nice flowstone setup for placing stalagmites and columns.
Dr. The Viking's sand casting method is brilliant and will be trying it out(I may have to use snow at the moment). A thick coat of glue would smooth it out a bit if you want a more organic feel.
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You make a good point Agon, the rounded shapes of expanding foam would work well for the bottom half of a stalagmite cluster. And welcome to the forum!
Besides having that chemistry experiment set up. (no progress so far) I think I will also be trying a mix of fine sand and PVA. No idea how it will turn out but I am curious.
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Shape styrafoam into the rough shapes you want, then smear on a coat of caulking to smooth it out?
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Here are some pictures of some stalag/stalactites formations I made recently with Liquid nails and toothpicks. Some turned out well, others just ended up looking to much like icecream. Real world speleothems tend to look like dairy products so a mass effect tends to help with the overall look.
I scaled the images down so hopefully they won't take too long to load.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_AMWlV9hpivk/TSqMKjFrRAI/AAAAAAAAAA8/fmrIXF_I894/s1600/jan8+2011+063.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_AMWlV9hpivk/TSqKs2zVVUI/AAAAAAAAAAk/E5PgT2obcPg/s1600/jan8+2011+064.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AMWlV9hpivk/TSqKleHnKkI/AAAAAAAAAAU/zKXJFYcCn6w/s1600/speleothem2.jpg)
This next shot is from a current, extremely massive and restrictively expensive project which is on hiatus due to budget.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_AMWlV9hpivk/TSqKb9NpF4I/AAAAAAAAAAQ/Vm0d2KaXIvw/s1600/cavern+078.jpg)
These are several years old but I always like how the formations turned out, I still used Liquid Nails, canned foam, bamboo skewers and toothpicks.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AMWlV9hpivk/TSqLF7JidmI/AAAAAAAAAA4/2hZ-Eb5GfRI/s1600/cavernchamber.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AMWlV9hpivk/TStqTIOVg7I/AAAAAAAAABM/h8Mu8DKSh04/s1600/formation_022b.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AMWlV9hpivk/TStqIw5w3UI/AAAAAAAAABE/UyKo62OdymQ/s1600/formation009.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_AMWlV9hpivk/TStqIlkhCMI/AAAAAAAAABA/g0Xr7ASeGAQ/s1600/formation008.jpg)
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Great looking caves!
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Thanks Agon, I know what I am going to be doing next weekend. lol Those are awesome, now I see why you would sign up over such a topic, its something you seem to have mastered yourself.
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Thanks,
YPU, Post some pics of your progress man. Tomorrow I may make a little tutorial and stick it here and hopefully someone can try it and improve upon. I've noticed this subject comes up on numerous forums and quickly disappears never to be seen again, lost in a haze of above-ground-dweller tutorials.
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Have you tried dripping hot wax & then covering with wood glue or plaster. that should look really natural. The wax will build up the same way stalagmites form. Then cover them with some thing harder & stiffer to keep the shape.
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Just tried playing around with some wax, and with some patience it might work well, its pretty fragile though. Coating a stalagmite with rubber latex might help strengthen it. Using several thick coats would make a pretty simple mold.
Thought about using a hard candy recipe but, inevitable injury and an annoyed wife may prevent much experimentation.
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YPU, Apologies I'm not trying overrun this thread. Honest. :) The cave making thing has become my "Devil's Tower sculpted in mashed potatoes"
Still haven't managed to buy some more caulking for my own little tutorial, but I did manage to find some nice tutorials elsewhere.
Found a nice tutorial over on http://forum.warhammer-forum.com/ (http://forum.warhammer-forum.com/) one using crystal resin. It was used to create ice stalagmites and stalactites. May be fragile, but it Looks beautiful. Would be even better if painted in cave colors.
http://forum.warhammer-forum.com/index.php?showtopic=122604&hl= (http://forum.warhammer-forum.com/index.php?showtopic=122604&hl=)
(http://tft.nelthcorp.com/images/tutos/17.jpg)
Same site also has this. A bit hard to read.
http://forum.warhammer-forum.com/index.php?showtopic=108824 (http://forum.warhammer-forum.com/index.php?showtopic=108824)
(http://img366.imageshack.us/i/cimg1725dr6.jpg/)
Painted. Why blue, who know? has nice form though.
http://www.wix.com/campoy/jibus (http://www.wix.com/campoy/jibus)
This next one is from someone's D&D fish tank diorama.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/aff/68/aft/709238/afv/topic/Default.aspx (http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/aff/68/aft/709238/afv/topic/Default.aspx)
The next one is a tutorial on Mutant/Alien Vegetation over at Terragenesis. May seem odd but there are some stalagmites that resemble the methods used.
http://terragenesis.co.uk/infopages/page533.html (http://terragenesis.co.uk/infopages/page533.html)
Scratch building wise there isn't a lot out there, at least for speleothems, well unless you want to purchase molds From Hirsts Arts. I love Hirst Arts and have dozens of molds, but I never found the cavern stalagmite molds all that appealing. Stalagmites and stalactites should all be unique.
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No worries man, with the info your spouting out here this might become worthy of a how to sticky in time. (not my call at all tough, mind)
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Alright, just did a little over the weekend.
Bought some more caulking. They didn't have the brand I wanted so I purchased some painters caulking and one tube of Liquid Nails Project Adhesive. Avoid the Project Adhesive as the smell is utterly unbearable. Its horrid and I now remember the reason I stopped using it. So far my favorite brand is Liquid Nails Concrete and mortar. The odor isn't too bad and is very durable.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_AMWlV9hpivk/TTUZ_CR1baI/AAAAAAAAABg/DmJGwbUQUrM/s1600/jan8+2011+079.jpg)
Normally when making speleothems I cut the tip just slight wider then the toothpick or skewer begin making stalactites first. unless you want it smooth always squeeze the trigger slightly for some irregularity and different shapes, otherwise it will just be dipping. After a number of stalactites have been made I cut the tip some more for a wider flow and proceed making stalagmites. After a number of stalagmites have been made I cut the tip some more, making cuts and slices on the tip for more variation. Kind of like using different tips when icing a cake.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_AMWlV9hpivk/TTUZ8RYsDvI/AAAAAAAAABc/6YrnmNF1PQ4/s1600/jan8+2011+080.jpg)
I ran out of toothpicks the other day. It was cold and I didn't feel like going any where, so I thought I would try and make some stalactites with thin wire. I wish I thought of it sooner. They wont break like the toothpicks and can be repositioned easily. I began wrapping short pieces of wire around a skewer. After it was filled I just began a semi dip. Made several hundred. The wire is easily trimmed down.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_AMWlV9hpivk/TTUZvZlFjNI/AAAAAAAAABU/Mub1bgT2tm0/s1600/jan8+2011+060.jpg)
After they dried I decided to retool my current project. I was already planning on repainting it so I tested them on a small cave piece I was unhappy with.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_AMWlV9hpivk/TTUaS_CsmlI/AAAAAAAAABo/lVCb1Wc63vQ/s1600/jan8+2011+074.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_AMWlV9hpivk/TTUaI2rUmEI/AAAAAAAAABk/C1uDoa2ACN8/s1600/jan8+2011+069.jpg)
Eventually I'll retool all of it and repaint it yet again. I usually try to build the formations on to existing wall sections bulking them up as needed. My walls are vaguely I shaped so I can have both stalactites and stalagmites.
I have about fifty sections in various stages of completion to finish so I need thousands of formations. Still trying to figure out a good way to make draperies, bacon, pocorn, soda straws and the large highly detailed stalagmites
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_AMWlV9hpivk/TTUZ1pMTGZI/AAAAAAAAABY/QHRnazAj7DY/s1600/Picture+120.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AMWlV9hpivk/TTUaXXuHWnI/AAAAAAAAABs/tXjjfx1flIU/s1600/Picture+089.jpg)
I'll just keep on experimenting
-Agon
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Impressive work agon! I was planning to do some experimenting of my own over the weekend but instead ended up booking a last minute vacation to Egypt with the family. Funny how those things work out sometimes.
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This looks good.
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Not sure if this is the look you are going for or not, but try styrofoam and acetate.
Years ago as a kid I played around with making underground scenes using white styrofoam, and bottles of white-out(much to my parents dismay, and my own grounding)
Now I use Acetone, or nail polish remover for a similar effect. Cut you styrofoam blocks to the overall shape you want, making the intial piece larger than where you want the finished piece to end. Then give a very very light coat of acetone, brushed over it.
The styrofoam, dissolves, leaving behind a very flowstone looking end result, without a whole lots of time needed.
Caveats
1. w/ the acetone a little goes a long way. Too much and it will eat away all the foam.
2. Make certain to do this in a very well ventilated area.
My two cents
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Not sure if this is the look you are going for or not, but try styrofoam and acetate.
Years ago as a kid I played around with making underground scenes using white styrofoam, and bottles of white-out(much to my parents dismay, and my own grounding)
Now I use Acetone, or nail polish remover for a similar effect. Cut you styrofoam blocks to the overall shape you want, making the intial piece larger than where you want the finished piece to end. Then give a very very light coat of acetone, brushed over it.
The styrofoam, dissolves, leaving behind a very flowstone looking end result, without a whole lots of time needed.
Caveats
1. w/ the acetone a little goes a long way. Too much and it will eat away all the foam.
2. Make certain to do this in a very well ventilated area.
My two cents
hm, I have used that method before actually, tough I used revel glue for it and used it to make craters in asteroids. Oh and if you let a thin slip of foam get eaten entirely the result can be used as an "energy blade" of sorts. But as you say this should really be done in a well ventilated area, as the fumes are horrible.