Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: ErikB on 23 February 2011, 01:17:17 AM
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Can anyone explain what the colors of Roman shields mean?
When were they red, black, blue, green?
What did the color mean?
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As far as I know there is little evidence to say what colour or designs were on Roman shields until the late Empire (and that is apparently questionable) ... or even what colour(s) the uniform tunic was. For what must be the most researched army of all time (Napoleonic French coming a distant second) there is surprisingly little known about their appearance.
I would imagine that individual units (Legion or perhaps even Cohorts) would have a single colour and design as the shield was factory produced (most Legions having their own local factories which used standard patterns). As far as designs go, they appear to be based on Eagles (wings or the whole bird) and Thunderbolts from what little evidence remains. For all we know though such designs may have been only used for parades or guard units, the rest may have been just plain.
Then as now though, the administration was constantly looking to save money, so go with whatever is the cheaper option. :)
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As far as I know there is little evidence to say what colour or designs were on Roman shields until the late Empire (and that is apparently questionable) ... or even what colour(s) the uniform tunic was. For what must be the most researched army of all time (Napoleonic French coming a distant second) there is surprisingly little known about their appearance.
I would imagine that individual units (Legion or perhaps even Cohorts) would have a single colour and design as the shield was factory produced (most Legions having their own local factories which used standard patterns). As far as designs go, they appear to be based on Eagles (wings or the whole bird) and Thunderbolts from what little evidence remains. For all we know though such designs may have been only used for parades or guard units, the rest may have been just plain.
Then as now though, the administration was constantly looking to save money, so go with whatever is the cheaper option. :)
Yep, what Jim said. For all the confidence 'we' put into how we see the Roman Imperial Army in modern times, we actually have quite scant evidence or proof.
Darrell.
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so sad to hear this... another cheat revealed to me... sob.
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I know the feeling, it is almost like all of the things I thought I knew have been steadily destroyed over the past ten years or so. :(
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If the Roman Army operated like the British army the colour means that is what the Quartermaster had in stores the day the shields needed painting.
ok, my nexy roman army will be coloured with Scorpion Green, a half dry bottle of white primer and... tin biz.
lol lol
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Here's a question, who 'chose' the the red we all know and love? Was it the Victorians?
cheers
James
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bezzo, you read in my mind. i was thinking the same thing!!!
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Here's a question, who 'chose' the the red we all know and love? Was it the Victorians?
cheers
James
A piece of cloth and/or shield was discovered in the UK somewhere (Hadrian's wall area?) and it was red. It was also believed to be auxillaries, not regulars, though.
That's all I know.
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that's all clear now.
coca cola has hidden a lot of old santa claus red dresses all over the adrian wall.
and waited. patiently.
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The chief contenders do seem to be red and an off-white colour, although green and a pale blue are also contenders according to wall paintings etc. The red was likely to come from Madder Dye, so should not be confused with the bright reds often seen on wargame figures. This would give a colour range between almost purple and pale pink depending on the concentration used and the amount of wear and washing.
It's possible that there was an 'issue' garment, perhaps off-white, but that individual commanders paid out of their own pocket for their men's tunics and shields to be dyed another colour, in much the same way as later 16th/17th century Colonels provided their men's uniforms. That's just conjecture on my part though.
I'd go for whatever you like though, it's not like anyone can really put a convincing argument forward against it.
It's true about Santa's red suit too... one of the greater advertising coups ever. ;)
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regarding the red, I've read it somewhere that this was found in a wall painting, that had a picture of some military guys handing red tunics to people who in turn gave them white tunics, latter the mural was more investigated and they found that it was not representing a draft scene but actually the soldiers were disbanding
Also Goscinny told us that their uniforms were blue! :D
Regarding the shields I've also read that during the civil wars (between Cila and Mario), the units had representing drawings on their shields, that enabled them to identify units
but mostly I think that the overall look and feel of todays ancient armies is for Mr Angus MacBride to be blamed! :)
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Thanks for the replies chaps (apart from the Santa ones ;D )
cheers
James
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Interesting subject, I guess the whole red business is largely another hollywood thing.
As for whether the Victorians said they wore red similar to British troops of many periods in British Military, I highly doubt it. Of all the armies in Europe I'd say Britain was one of the few that -didn't- attempt to copy the Romanesque character throughout its history. Whereas if you look at Napoleon or the Wehrmacht(spelling?) or the Italins during WW2, they made many attempts to copy the sort of Eagle banners, Roman styled stuff.
I actually think that Hollywood decided to get into its head, since the Romans had an impressive Empire, similar to the British later on, they decided to make Roman uniforms red in comparison to British Red, with only some scant evidence of that colour being used by Roman units.
It would certainly explain why in all these films based around Romans they always have Modern British accents!!
However my view of it is this, though I only have limited knowledge of Rome, when soldiers are on campaign they tend to wear whatever they have around them. When I painted my Imperial Romans I always did the majority of cloth colour in white rather than red.
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Also Goscinny told us that their uniforms were blue! :D
i didn't think about it. you are right, they were blue and green!!!
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The post about Coca Cola and Santa was only half in jest. It is amazing how quickly something can become enshrined as 'traditional' and centuries old when it may actually be quite recent.
Ask people in the street how long Christmas trees have been around and the majority will say 100's of years when it was Prince Albert who brought them to the UK in the mid 19th c.
This is a pretty solid point, it is.
I never really gave the red much thought, though did think that such masses of red dye for the whole military would be rather pricey in the long-run.
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Could just copy the sort of Rome Total War game sort of idea.
Every Family has an army with different colours, some Green, some Blue, others Red whilst the more elite are purple (given this was a very rare dye to get your hands on back then) and others white (the most common shade of them all.)
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I was of the impression that much of what we think we know about the look of the early Roman Imperial Army is based on the reliefs sculpted onto Trajan's Column depicting the Dacian wars.
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regarding the red, I've read it somewhere that this was found in a wall painting, that had a picture of some military guys handing red tunics to people who in turn gave them white tunics,
See..Red and White... proof it's a Coca-Cola plot centuries in the making!!! lol
http://worldhistoryprof.blogspot.com/2010/12/christmas-tree-six-coca-cola.html
Prof
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http://worldhistoryprof.blogspot.com/