Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Back of Beyond => Topic started by: David on April 14, 2011, 10:40:25 PM
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Hi
i was looking for a small naval action eg with a small river gun boat in the RCW
want to do a action on a small display game for the end of the year.
1919 - 17 June and 18 August British raids on Kronstadt during the Estonian Liberation War is tha only action i can find?
Thanks
David
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Which models do you expect to use?
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There were lots of naval actions, on all fronts. The Volga and Caspian had particularly large fleets. The Siberian ones were smaller and more dispersed. Czechs fought Red on the Baikal. The Poles fielded river boats deep into Russia. The Freikorps had boats in Latvia. Which sides do you want, where, and what period?
Detailed material in English is the problem. I think you can find "Tales of Sub-Lieutenant Ilyin" by Raskolnikov on-line.
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Hi Mark
information on :-
The Freikorps boats in Latvia would be great.
plus, The Poles fielded river boats deep into Russia, were they used in a supporting role?
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The Freikorps had an "Aa Flottille" during their fighting with the Latvians in late 1919.
The Aa is the modern Lielupe, and it along with the Babites Lake was the scene of quite a lot of fighting, including the Latvians crossing from the Riga side.
I've been going through my stuff and there's not much on them except du Parquet records that "five armoured boats armed with canons and machine-guns" were captured in Mitau. Mitau is modern Jelgava and is a long way upstream, so the boats must have been quite little. The equivalent Latvian ones certainly were.
I would have thought a small action (a couple of companies) with the support of a river boat would be quite representative.
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Hi Mark
after looking at the pictures of the river about the size of the Forth, you could use small boats up to tug size boats or mtb etc.
the rivers were in better shape then for river trafic and moving goods, due to the waterways been keep clear, unlike the bad state they are in now.
so all i need is a picture of one of these armoured boats?
David
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David,
If you need info on RCW riverine actions Simon Stokes series of articles Naval Actions of the Russian Civil War is a great starting place, which you can get via links on the PT Dockyard website http://ptdockyard.com/narrow-seas/rules/. PT dockyard also has links (under links) to other sources including to the Russian language history Great River War 1918-1919 which is well work running through a translator.
Of course their 1/600 RCW boats and rules are also worth a look.
Peter
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I had a look at my Jane's book for WW1, but no pictures
but i did come across this model ?
http://www.hlbs.co.uk/series.php?id=45
the Germans did have Liebe and Gardengo tug , 1 3.4 inch (22 pdr) and 1 MG (No pictures), so minor work could convert this?
since i have no information on the armoured river boats, which could be old russian motor patrol boats, etc.
so any help would be great
Thanks
David
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Hi David.
It is unlikely that I'll tell what and where you can buy models for your fleet.
I think you can find children's toy boats, looked like the silhouette and size that you want to convert the bit.
Here are a few of the projections for the selection of the right of prototypes:
(http://i077.radikal.ru/1104/d3/d2890255a5f4.jpg)
Aviso
(http://s61.radikal.ru/i171/1104/13/579da1a01dad.jpg)
Gunboat
(http://s002.radikal.ru/i198/1104/6a/160a0d5036e0.jpg)
Armored patrol boat
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But often in the battles took civil ships, transformed into Improvised warships:
(http://s57.radikal.ru/i157/1104/2a/a1923f1da2e0.jpg)
Motorboat
(http://s008.radikal.ru/i305/1104/e0/1b4aef9c387d.jpg)
Armed steamship
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Thank that great cuprum
it gives me a starting point
I will have to look round the internet
plus, i will see if i can find any information on German river boats
David
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Here is what I have on the German fleet in East Prussia:
"Ship of detachment ships commander of the Eastern Front soon served as a nucleus for a river flotilla, which is the spring of 1919 created the East Prussian volunteer corps. A division Naval Station Baltic Sea operationally fleet comes under the command of the division based in East Prussia.
March 20, 1919 in Labiau started its service a half-flotilla of river flotilla, which consisted of several motor boats. Later, she received five Navy minesweepers: FM-10, FM-14, FM-30, FM-32 and FM-36 (displacement of 170 tons; sediment 1,3-1,4 m, one 53-mm cannon and two revolving gun).
In Tilsit, of river steamship and motor boats, organized two half-flotilla. In Konigsberg, to protect the port from motor boats formed a three half-flotilla.
In October 1919, the German river fleet was disbanded. "
(http://s58.radikal.ru/i161/1104/5f/341f09904de9.jpg)
Motor and the boat lift from the German Flotilla.
Information from the book: "Encyclopedia of the river fleet".
(http://img.labirint.ru/images/books5/212081/big.jpg)
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I can tell the main weapon at the front of the armoured patrol looks like a Maxim (I think), but what is the gun at the back? (please forgive my ship/maritime phraseology, lol). These could end up being nice little projects :)
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The weapon in the forward turret of the patrol boat is indeed a Maxim. The shielded guns on the gun boat will be 76mm mounts of this type:
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/76VK04.jpg
Used as both mountain guns ( with carraage) and as fixed naval mounts, as per the pic. I believe a few might even have made their way onto trains.
The rearward gun on the ptarol boat looks like either a Hotchkiss of Nordenfeldt type quick firer. These came in a range of calibres but typically between 37 and 47mm.
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The weapon in the forward turret of the patrol boat is indeed a Maxim. The shielded guns on the gun boat will be 76mm mounts of this type:
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/76VK04.jpg
Used as both mountain guns ( with carraage) and as fixed naval mounts, as per the pic. I believe a few might even have made their way onto trains.
The rearward gun on the ptarol boat looks like either a Hotchkiss of Nordenfeldt type quick firer. These came in a range of calibres but typically between 37 and 47mm.
Hi Carlos, many thanks for the info on the weaponry. The 76mm mounts look as though they could do quite a bit of damage!!! Are there any manufacturers out there who produce this.....the Hotchkiss or Nordfeldt in 28mm scale?
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I don't think anyone makes a 76mm piece like that, although I dis scratchbuild my own Russian mountain gun a few years ago so, I doubt it would be beyond the abilities of most. Nearest and best option for the quick firer would be Eureka Hotchkiss, in fact it's pretty much the very gun.
http://eurekamin.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=87_126_139&products_id=9569
They also produce crew for it.
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I don't think anyone makes a 76mm piece like that, although I dis scratchbuild my own Russian mountain gun a few years ago so, I doubt it would be beyond the abilities of most. Nearest and best option for the quick firer would be Eureka Hotchkiss, in fact it's pretty much the very gun.
http://eurekamin.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=87_126_139&products_id=9569
They also produce crew for it.
Excellent!!! :)
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I make a whole line of RCW river gunboats and have rules- "White Water, Red Tide"
Http://www.ptdockyard.com
Dave G
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So does the Honorable Lead Boiler Suit Company
http://www.hlbs.co.uk/type.php?id=93
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Ainsty Castings make a river launch with binnacle (#3504) that would work quite well as the basis for an RCW river launch.
http://ainstycastings.co.uk/index.php/cPath/48/osCsid/dd60215365c8f99bce78a0d2b2d7b2c7 (http://ainstycastings.co.uk/index.php/cPath/48/osCsid/dd60215365c8f99bce78a0d2b2d7b2c7)
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Hi
I am going to get this painted soon
i have done some mods to copplestone RCW red navel figures for the boat.
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w107/dburns_04/HNB02.png)
but a question came up about the flag, which normal is on the back of the boat.
but this one seem to have a flag pole at the front too ?
any help would be great
Thanks
David
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Hi David.
Who will own the ship?
Red, white, and Poles?
Although it is better to make a replacement flag - it will be possible to use the model in different scenarios.
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Hi Cuprum
This is going to be only for my Red russian, so a white flag with red cross.
which goes on the rear of the boat.
but the problem is the flag pole on the front of the boat, should there be one there ?
David
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I think there should be a national flag of the RSFSR
(http://www.great-country.ru/content/sssr/img_flag/Flag_of_RSFSR_1918.png)
"May 20, 1918 the VTsIK (Central Executive Committee) approved a typed version of the Narkomindel (Commissariat) of national flag, on which the inscription of the RSFSR was carried out in the canton of Slavonic lettering of the flag. This flag was used on ships."
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I have my boat sorted
but the next problem is what is best method for water effect for the boat ?
since it is a river boat what colour should the water be ?
Any help would be great
Thanks
David