Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: H.M.Stanley on 25 April 2011, 12:51:11 PM
-
I'm planning an Explorer Expedition having picked up some Copplestone Figures for the characters, Old Glory Porters/Bearers and, because i have no patience and they were right in front of me on an otherwise empty rack, ... Schutztruppe Askari
I would have preferred more irregular Askari but would the Schutztruppe look out of place for this sort of thing?
Thanks
-
A bit. I'm struggling to think of an example of them accompanying an explorer. They were a colonial defence force, see. The exploring had already been done by the time they showed up. The German East Africa Company troops Copplestone sells can double as explorer's askari, though, as they are dressed almost the same as the men on Carl Peter's expedition did.
Still, it all depends how important stuff like that is to you. No reason you can't use them if you want to. They're your toys. Just call it a 'what if' or say your adventures are set in a fictional version of East Africa where things were slightly different. My own games are as often set in a 'slightly' fictional world as they are in dead kosher history.
-
Hi. I suspected as much.
They'll probably be the last thing i paint then assuming i haven't picked up the other Askari first.
Thanks for the tip
-
Alternately James - set your adventuring fairly late i.e. Dawn of The Great War (i.e. 1890-1914-ish) and it won't be such a stretch to use the Schutztruppe chaps (perhaps on semi-official expeditions sponsored by the Kaiser?!)...
However as your Moniker is 'Stanley' I guess that's far to late for you - so Schutztruppe are not only incorrect, but generally didn't exist at Stanley's time! However as Plynkes says a semi-fictional or neo-historical version of Africa in the second half of the 19th Century would do the trick!
:)
-
Alternately James - set your adventuring fairly late i.e. Dawn of The Great War (i.e. 1890-1914-ish) and it won't be such a stretch to use the Schutztruppe chaps (perhaps on semi-official expeditions sponsored by the Kaiser?!)...
However as your Moniker is 'Stanley' I guess that's far to late for you - so Schutztruppe are not only incorrect, but generally didn't exist at Stanley's time! However as Plynkes says a semi-fictional or neo-historical version of Africa in the second half of the 19th Century would do the trick!
:)
Hi. Oh i just happen to be reading about Stanley at the moment ...
That's good enough for me. They'll get painted up and used in that context and in time i'll get more irregular askari to jump back in time a bit
Thanks
-
Or what about ...
Brigade Games' NSA1013/14 - Matabele Rebels Firing Rifles?
http://www.northstarfigures.com/prod.php?prod=2109
NorthStar have these in stock and are on my doorstep. Again they're a little later but better i think than the Schutztruppe.
-
Scratch that - Northstar also stock the Copplestone East African Askari. Result!
Anyone want to buy these Schutztruppe? They're untouched
-
Are they Copplestone James? If so drop me a line off-forum... :)
-
Are they Copplestone James? If so drop me a line off-forum... :)
PM sent chap
-
I'm in a similar position as you at the moment. I've bought both copplestone Schutztruppe and East Africa askari. We are playing in a setting somewhere around 1890-1900 and I intend to use both together with some generic and less uniformed foundry Askari. The East Africa Askari will be used as security forces of plantations or german business interests, but I don't see why you couldn't imagine being in that transitional period when the east Africa company is downgraded to mere guards while the khaki uniformed Schutztruppe is established.
-
Dimitri, there is nothing historically wrong with using Schutztruppe and DOAG figures together. The transitional Wissmanntruppe covers a multitude of sins. The Wissmanntruppe were formed to sort out the mess the DOAG had made, when the German government took over the company's affairs. It operated from 1889 to 1891, when it was renamed the Kaiserliche Schutztruppe für deutsch Ost Afrika.
The former DOAG askari were absorbed into this new force as the Swahili Company and kept their old uniforms, while the new Sudanese askari recruited in Egypt were given new khaki uniforms. You also have the option of painting the DOAG figures in either blue or khaki and have them be the 'Zulu' Company (Ngoni really, but everybody referred to Ngoni as Zulus back in the day), who had different uniforms again.
The Sudanese companies initially had their own distinctive fez and pagri type of deal, but the later version of their uniform was the basis of the Schutztruppe outfit. So no reason you can't have units of all these guys in the same army and just call the result "Wissmanntruppe."
Another interesting troop type you could field if you fancy a bit of head-swappery is the "Wali Askari" or village police. Their uniform was the same as the DOAG one, but they wore straw hats. Copplestone DOAG + Foundry Force Publique heads, anyone?
In fact this is my current project (German reinforcements for "Ngoni Dawn II"). I was keeping it under wraps, but the cat is out of the bag now. :)
-
I'm in a similar position as you at the moment. I've bought both copplestone Schutztruppe and East Africa askari. We are playing in a setting somewhere around 1890-1900 and I intend to use both together with some generic and less uniformed foundry Askari. The East Africa Askari will be used as security forces of plantations or german business interests, but I don't see why you couldn't imagine being in that transitional period when the east Africa company is downgraded to mere guards while the khaki uniformed Schutztruppe is established.
Hi. I'm trying not to let this project get out of hand lol and keep the explorer group to a couple of characters, a unit (or two) of Askari &, say, 3 units of Native Bearers
and then enough Cannibals/Pygmies as required
I'm also buying/building jungle terrain like billy-o
-
Dimitri, there is nothing historically wrong with using Schutztruppe and DOAG figures together. The transitional Wissmanntruppe covers a multitude of sins. The Wissmanntruppe were formed to sort out the mess the DOAG had made, when the German government took over the company's affairs. It operated from 1889 to 1891, when it was renamed the Kaiserliche Schutztruppe für deutsch Ost Afrika.
The former DOAG askari were absorbed into this new force as the Swahili Company and kept their old uniforms, while the new Sudanese askari recruited in Egypt were given new khaki uniforms. You also have the option of painting the DOAG figures in either blue or khaki and have them be the 'Zulu' Company (Ngoni really, but everybody referred to Ngoni as Zulus back in the day), who had different uniforms again.
The Sudanese companies initially had their own distinctive fez and pagri type of deal, but the later version of their uniform was the basis of the Schutztruppe outfit. So no reason you can't have units of all these guys in the same army and just call the result "Wissmanntruppe."
Another interesting troop type you could field if you fancy a bit of head-swappery is the "Wali Askari" or village police. Their uniform was the same as the DOAG one, but they wore straw hats. Copplestone DOAG + Foundry Force Publique heads, anyone?
In fact this is my current project (German reinforcements for "Ngoni Dawn II"). I was keeping it under wraps, but the cat is out of the bag now. :)
Excellent!! Thank you
-
Thanks for the reply, Dylan. I suspected as much after reading some of the pages in this webpage (http://www.germancolonialuniforms.co.uk/) (might be a good resource for you as well, Stanley) but your reply definitely eases any worries I had. The fact that the former DOAG Askari didn't immediately get the new uniforms (if at all) is certainly music to my virtual ears. Glad you've strengthened my decision to mix Zulu with Swahili uniforms in one group as well. :D Nothing better than a ragtag colourful group.
Very much looking forward to your new conversion results. Sounds intriguing and is definitely something worth pursuing. I've never seen the Belgian Askari upclose but wouldn't it be easier to reform the shirts with some green stuff, instead of doing head-swaps? The MC Hammer trousers wouldn't be too out of place would they?
-
I haven't definitely decided to do Village Police, it was just an idea I was toying with. I've been messing around with Green Stuff quite a bit in the last week, and have come to the conclusion that I'm not really cut out for it. I find it devilishly difficult. I happen to have a pack of Force Publique in straw hats that I have no plans for (unused leftovers from buying the whole deal). As far as I'm concerned, if I don't botch the head removal, I can just do a straight swap, putting the fezzed heads on the Belgians and the straw hats on the Germans. I think for someone of my skills, that's a lot easier than trying to turn the Belgian Zouave-like outfits into those silly German sailor suits. But you're probably right that there isn't much in it (especially for someone who can handle Green Stuff better than I can).
What my force is definitely going to consist of is this:
1 command unit
1 small unit of Ruga-Ruga scouts
1 unit of Swahili Askari (my already-painted DOAG troops)
1 unit of Sudanese Askari
1 unit of Zulu Askari in campaign uniforms
1 unit of Zulu Askari in dress uniforms (I just like the colours)
1 unit of naval landing party
Also maybe some sort of support weapon, haven't decided what yet.
As I said, I may do the village police just for fun, but I think the force will be big enough by then. I guess it never hurts to have more units to choose from, you don't have to field them all in every battle.
-
Nice little list. I am guessing the campaign uniform is the Khaki one mentioned in germancolonialuniforms.co.uk? Does it have the same sailor-ish cut as the blue one or the Swahili one? And are you intending to do head swaps for the Sudanese fellows to get the turban look, or will they be, as you've mentioned, the normal Copplestone Schutztruppe?
I've often thought of using some Foundry Ruga-Ruga for my Germans, but somehow I don't like their clothes much... Looking forward to be convinced by your chaps. :)
-
I want to do the early turban-and-fez version of the Sudanese uniform. But I probably won't use the Copplestone fellows as a base. Their neck-flaps make mucking around with their heads problematic. I have the seed of a plan forming in my mind, I'll keep you posted once it becomes more concrete. If it comes to nothing then Plan B is to use Copplestone Schutztruppe straight out of the box to depict the later version of the uniform.
The Zulu Company khaki uniform is similar enough in my eyes that a paint conversion can suffice. It still had some of the sailor trappings of the other uniforms.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/wissmanntruppe.jpg)
It's easy to miss in this pic, but it does have something similar to the sailor 'bib' thing over the shoulders, with red trim. Not an exact match to the Copplestone DOAG troops, but near enough for me.
One thing mentioned by comentators is that the Wissmanntruppe did not always present a particularly impressive parade ground spectacle, and not everybody had full uniform, or indeed any at all. Some are described as wearing robes, cloth skirts and what-have-you. They could be a ragged bunch so I reckon that can be used as an excuse if our figures fail to match colour plates exactly. ;)
I'll probably use three of these guys as my scout unit. I don't feel like painting more Ruga-Ruga right now:
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/6/163_23_04_10_12_27_31_3.jpg)
-
Lovely stuff and quite a motivation boost! :) And now I am considering painting my DOAG in all three variations in one just for fun. You are right... The khaki uniform looks quite similar. While I will continue using the Copplestone fellas (lazy!:D), I am looking forward to your version of the Sudanese! :) Thanks, Dylan. Looking forward to more.
-
It's easy to miss in this pic, but it does have something similar to the sailor 'bib' thing over the shoulders, with red trim. Not an exact match to the Copplestone DOAG troops, but near enough for me.
Short of doing lots of fiddly green-stuff work I don't think you could get a closer match with currently available figures.
Should look good on the table!
-
Hi. I'm reading Chris Peers' Death in the Dark Continent rules and an Explorer Group (if used as Charles Stokes - 1891/1895) can indeed have German Allies incl Wissmanntruppe askaris and Schutztruppe askaris.
I've only really used the S&F rules so far but may give DitDC a whirl too. And read up on Stokes.
Cheers
-
Charles Stokes is a very interesting character. Quite the epitome of "going native." He went out to East Africa as a missionary worker and promptly married a Nyamwezi woman, which got him sacked from his missionary job (he also acquired a couple of Baganda concubines as gifts from the king of Buganda). He adopted native (Arab) costume and become something of a caravan mogul, trading all over the shop, while at the same time holding down a commissioner's post for the German administration. He prospered in the murky world of East African Arab trade, trading in ivory and also running guns.
His undoing came when he organised a massive ivory/gun running expedition to the Congo (Congo ivory into German East, guns into the Congo). God forbid that anyone try to break King Leopold's monopoly on squeezing the Congolese dry. The Force Publique caught him and hanged him, causing an international incident with both the British (he was an Irishman) and the Germans (who he worked for). Eventually the Belgians paid compensation for his death (though to the British and German governments rather than his family).
Furthermore it is said that he may have been one of the inspirations for Conrad's Heart of Darkness, particularly the character of Kurtz. I wouldn't exactly call him an explorer (more a rogue trader), but he's a great character to include in your game as the head of a trading expedition into the unknown.
-
My Partner looked over my shoulder as i was replying earlier and handed me her copy of The Heart of Darkness. Bless her
I think Stanley was also thought as [prime?] source material for the Kurtz character
I mentioned Explorer earlier, but any Muzungo type operation for any of the Colonial powers is fine :)
S&F* or Death in the Dark Continent. Any thoughts gentlemen?
* i use S&F for NWF but haven't used Peers' rules yet
-
I think Stanley was also thought as [prime?] source material for the Kurtz character
And I think there are still other candidates too.
I'm afraid that while I own a copy of TSATF, I have never played it, and I have no experience of Death in the Dark Continent either, only Chris Peers' skirmish rules In the Heart of Africa, which I have rather enjoyed on occasion.
-
Triumph and Tragedy?
-
And I think there are still other candidates too.
I'm afraid that while I own a copy of TSATF, I have never played it, and I have no experience of Death in the Dark Continent either, only Chris Peers' skirmish rules In the Heart of Africa, which I have rather enjoyed on occasion.
They are in a similar vein to In the Heart of Africa, but letting you play larger scale games. I think if you liked these rules you should also like Death in the Dark Continent. I like TSATF, but I think I prefer DIADC for larger-than-skirmish scale games. It works very well for Brigade-level Sudan games, for example.
-
Thanks for the reply, Dylan. I suspected as much after reading some of the pages in this webpage (http://www.germancolonialuniforms.co.uk/) (might be a good resource for you as well, Stanley) ...
I've just spotted this as i've been checking in on a mobile for the last few days.
Thanks Remington
-
No problem, Stanley. It's a really helpful webpage.
T&T is a rule set I can highly recommend. While our group has decided to make some minor tweaks here and there, I was perfectly happy with playing them as they are. They can provide easy going, fun and fast games, provided you can live with unexpected things happening here and there. :)
-
I want to do the early turban-and-fez version of the Sudanese uniform. But I probably won't use the Copplestone fellows as a base. Their neck-flaps make mucking around with their heads problematic. I have the seed of a plan forming in my mind, I'll keep you posted once it becomes more concrete. If it comes to nothing then Plan B is to use Copplestone Schutztruppe straight out of the box to depict the later version of the uniform.
The Zulu Company khaki uniform is similar enough in my eyes that a paint conversion can suffice. It still had some of the sailor trappings of the other uniforms.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/wissmanntruppe.jpg)
It's easy to miss in this pic, but it does have something similar to the sailor 'bib' thing over the shoulders, with red trim. Not an exact match to the Copplestone DOAG troops, but near enough for me.
One thing mentioned by comentators is that the Wissmanntruppe did not always present a particularly impressive parade ground spectacle, and not everybody had full uniform, or indeed any at all. Some are described as wearing robes, cloth skirts and what-have-you. They could be a ragged bunch so I reckon that can be used as an excuse if our figures fail to match colour plates exactly. ;)
I'll probably use three of these guys as my scout unit. I don't feel like painting more Ruga-Ruga right now:
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/6/163_23_04_10_12_27_31_3.jpg)
Hi Plynkes [or anyone else who can answer]
I'm a gnats away from painting these now. I'm still torn on how to paint the DOAG but leaning towards the "Zulu" Company, as Askari in khaki cannot be a bad thing generally/versatile.
Could you just clarify about their "bib" please with the red trim? What colour would this be assuming i'm going khaki uniform.
Many thanks
James
-
The 'bib' is the same colour as the rest of the uniform, so blue on the blue uniforms, and khaki on the khaki ones. Unlike on the Copplestone figures it actually forms itself into a collar at the front, but it is close enough that I shall use the figures unchanged. I don't suppose it would be that hard to alter if someone had a mind to make them absolutely correct.
As for the piping itself it would seem that it was either in Imperial German black/white/red like on the DOAG 'sailor's collars' or just red. Having done a few DOAG troops I know which is easier to paint. :)
-
I'm obliged to you Sir.
So, Red piping only on the bibs eh? [grin]
-
Ha ha - we'd done the work already :D