Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: Faust23 on 25 August 2011, 05:54:46 AM
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I'm collecting opinions for the fantasy supplement to my man-to-man skirmish game releasing in Dec.
Do you want to pick your wizard's spells, or roll for them like in Mordheim?
Discuss! :D
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Always choose, that way you can build a strategy around various spells.
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Agreed, why would you want to build a warband but not know how it works? If I'm using my wizard as a missile (lightning bolt, fireball) thrower, I don't want to suddenly find out all he can do is 'ultimate healing' or 'touch of evil' or something.
I don't mind if there's some restrictions - maybe, if taking several spells is an option, there could be different lists based on elements or different magical schools (can't have fireball and petrify, as one is a fire spell and one is an earth spell; can't have summon animals and summon skeletons, as one is a druid spell and one is a necromantic spell), which means not every wizard will have 1-fireball; 2-summon skeletons; 3-healing. For example.
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How about picking what sort of wizard type you will field eg. Offensive, defensive or as Red Orc mentioned, having elemental or school based spells that are all of the same type but have slight differences and then having a random selection from that.
Just a thought :)
cheers
James
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Do your fighters get random weapons?
Today Snorri the Axe has been allocated...a bow and arrows! Better learn how to shoot Snorri :)
Wizards should choose based on their type as mentioned earlier.
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Do your fighters get random weapons?
Today Snorri the Axe has been allocated...a bow and arrows! Better learn how to shoot Snorri :)
Wizards should choose based on their type as mentioned earlier.
Radnor the Barbarian has been given the Sap for today's adventure against the Dragon of Burning Sands to rescue the maiden and obtain the treasure.
Good point Matakishi. If you start a career as <fill in the blank> in a game or real life you usually have (or should have) "some control" on shaping your success. Urologists take different advanced training over Optometrists.
Gracias,
Glenn
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Definitely choose my own spells.
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Choose, I rolled random once for WFRP, never again. I had a spell that had no effect in the game and my mate had cool stuff like fireball and one which allowed him to control my siege engine!
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How about picking what sort of wizard type you will field eg. Offensive, defensive or as Red Orc mentioned, having elemental or school based spells that are all of the same type but have slight differences and then having a random selection from that.
Just a thought :)
cheers
James
That could be a good middle road, where you have different types of wizard that would only allow certain types of spells. Fire - destructive; water - life/healing; wind - movement spells and earth - defensive spells for instance.
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Having played many games of this edition of Warhammer, I believe you should be able to choose your Wizard's spells to suit your needs.
There should be different power levels/difficulties to the spells also. And a cap on the number of spells/level of difficult spells a wizard can have based on their own skill level.
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Choose - the random spell thing all too often is a hopelessly flawed attempt at balance that ignores the current game and goes for things evening out over a whole lot of games.
That being said I don't mind some variablity, but random spells are just going too far.
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Why not both?
You could have a sub-type of mage that randomly gets spells. The benefit of this is you might get lucky and roll spells or combinations of spells you couldn't otherwise have chosen (depending on how you've built spell power structure). The downside is that it is all random. You might get nothing useful.
The rest of your more standard mage types would just pick their "school" and the spells allowed under it, or pick things following certain prerequisites (need to learn "teleport self" before learning "teleport group" for example).
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Do your fighters get random weapons?
Today Snorri the Axe has been allocated...a bow and arrows! Better learn how to shoot Snorri :)
Wizards should choose based on their type as mentioned earlier.
Hihi. that sounds like this rather crappy computer version of space hulk that's been around ten years ago (or even longer). The mission objective: "Flame that room." The Emperor has carefully chosen your weapons. You carry this... pair of lightning claws!
Ooops, mission failed.
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Choose. :)
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One of my beefs with Mordheim was the random spells. Lady Luck tends to give you the finger when you least expect it.
My initial thought was to select. Its a points based build, so choosing and paying the points makes the most sense to me.
However, I wanted to get a 'feel for the audience' and there is overwhelming evidence that we are all mostly in agreement.
Thanks for the assist!
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I think if it was a one-off game it could add an interesting element, definitely keep you on your toes.
But if you look at it from a character development perspective, it would make sense that you decide what spells he has been studying this whole time.
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there may be some reason for randomness, but right now I can't see one.
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A bit more fun than just the randomness of the dice :)
cheers
James
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Perhaps at character creation some influence over true random.
Or perhaps a rolled chance replace a random rolled spell.
Or trade off two spells not wanted for one chosen and one re-rolled random (binding.)
At level ups, a chance to influence spell selection (especially if spells divide into "elements" (Air, Earth, Water, Fire, Spirit, Illusion,) or "Schools" in the game.
Gracias,
Glenn
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Perhaps choose one, then roll for some others?
Adds the randomness that should be there in fantasy, but also the idea that they have learnt something.
In a roleplay situation, I would also include age/level of education. An apprentice might know one or two little spells of healing or dispelling, perhaps one big one, whereas a grizzled old Master of Magics would know some pretty unruly spells that he probably shouldn't be allowed to know (almost world ending, or at least terra-forming, with lots of potential to go wrong!) along with all the stuff the apprentice knows, however, some of those he might have forgotten! You know, the more knowledge that goes in, the more that falls out! :)
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While I come down on the side of choosing spells (along with everybody else), I can understand trying to avoid a cookie-cutter approach to character creation where the same small number of optimal spells get chosen all the time ("Ho-hum, here comes a wizard, better get ready for the fireball...").
The solution in that instance is to allow spell choice, but give wizards more to do in-game than just zap stuff, summon stuff, heal stuff, etc. If there are real in-game benefits to be derived from more "scholarly" spells, then players will pick them to further their own interests.
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Any wizard should be able to choose his/her spells. If you really want something random, roll for the kind of wizard that your army commander has been able to find.
"So, have we found a good wizard to come with us?"
"Sorry sir, not one. They say they have important research to do, they don't want any more fighting."
"Oh. Any witch?"
"No sir. They have gone to a charity meeting on a mountain somewhere, they call it Walpurgis night, sir."
"So?"
"We've found a druid, sir."
"A druid? What can he do?"
"Er... He can change milk into butter, sir. Very good butter, I must say."
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I would definately go for the different schools get different spells.
Earth/air/fire/water would be a good split.
Perhaps a little bit of overlap on some lower level spells, such as a "hot" spell giving either a pool of hot magma, dessicating breeze, fireball, or steam cloud. Obviously if it's low level ot would only be a small pool/breeze/ball/cloud.
As for chosen or random, I'd probably opt for a combination, perhaps half chosen half random? or one chosen 2 random at lower level, but higher level wizards gain more chosen as they progress (although keeping the rwo random).
Reason for the randoms? Ingredients out of season/out of stock/stolen by that thieving hobbit, or "revised the wrong page last night after dinner", or "I've always been really good at that one", or "it was really useful last week", thieving hobbits sell you some dodgy pipeweed, or just a magical powers cause a brief mental slip whilst you were setting off this morning.
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I have already created three main categories or 'schools' of magic. Basically a High, Natural, and Dark type of division.
Also have some 'divine rites' type of effects for non-wizard priestly types.
Heldrak brings up a great point regarding the min/maxers who will use the same 3 spells over and over.
Not sure I can keep that from happening. However, it is something I need to chew on to see if its possible. No matter what I come up with, they will always have their favorites.
I do the same thing. So I can't really fault anyone for that. ;)
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... maybe, if taking several spells is an option, there could be different lists based on elements or different magical schools (can't have fireball and petrify, as one is a fire spell and one is an earth spell; can't have summon animals and summon skeletons, as one is a druid spell and one is a necromantic spell), which means not every wizard will have 1-fireball; 2-summon skeletons; 3-healing. For example.
That was kinda the point. Don't put all the good spells in one basket. The trick is I suppose which spells are missing from each list. For exampleDruids might not get summon skeletons, High Magic types might not get spells to spook enemy animals (very useful against cavalry), Dark Magicians might not get healing/encouragement spells.
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How about having all spells accessable by all wizards, but some wizards have bonuses for casting certain types of spell, so your white wizard is going to be good at healing but his chances of casting a fireball are pretty slim- whilst your red witch is very good at flame grilling bad guys but isn't much good at casting concealmeat spells around her friends.
Duncan