Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: ketoeloeh on November 20, 2007, 12:22:02 PM
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Hi all,
I've been doing some research on this, but can't find the answers I need so maybe someone here can help me out.
I'm looking for details on how a US Marine in 1928 would look in winter camouflage. It seems it's rather difficult to find pictures, or any other detailed visual info on the USMC during this period.
How would this camo look like? Would a trooper simply paint his battledress white? Wear a white greatcoat? Paint his helmet?
Was there some kind of 'general instructions / equipment', or would every guy have to take care of himself and his equipment?
Thanks for any help!
/k
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The American military was in pretty sorry state in the late 20s, and whenever the military is badly off, the USMC seems to have it worse than anyone. I'm confident there wasn't a regulation winter camouflage uniform.
A Marine fighting in the Arctic in 1928 would probably look like a bum, wearing a trench coat that been in storage for ten years, improvised mittens, mukluks, and a watch cap under his helmet. For camouflage they might use the old white bedsheets, or whitewash their jackets. If he was lucky, he might have a US Navy seaman's coat with fur lining and a hood.
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I am sure I have seen what I believe was an Osprey on the Allied troops in Siberia during the RCW. There were American marines there. I can't reme,ber the title and couldn't find it while quick-browsing the Osprey site.
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In my limited experience I have to agree with Pete. Marines are always given last priority for gear. I reckon a white-washed helmet would be about it.
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Maybe I should shed some more light on this; I'm currently assembling some miniatures for a Call of Cthulhu game focussing on the Raid on Innsmouth as detailed in the CoC RPG book with the same name.
In it, it seems that a force consisting of n00b marines and veterans (of WWI, Nicaragua?,...) cleans the town of Innsmouth in february 1928. The book states that some squads are given 'winter camouflage', and I would like to show this on the miniatures.
Now, though I like the 'bum' detail I think that goes a bit far, so maybe it's enough to settle with some white greatcoats and some painted helmets. Or what do you think?
In addition, I like the fact that the USMC are the ones getting the left over stuff. Any pointers to where I can find more details on that? Never come across these facts til now.
Oh, one more question; the marines arrive by truck. What kind of truck would be used to transport these poor chaps to their Sanity Checks? Any pointers to models/producers would be great!
Thanks, guys!
Koen
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Wouldn't the quartermaster send for whatever was available?
In the Noridic countries the various army has been using a cheap white sheepskin coat and hat (coloquially 'the Sheep's Ass') combos for ages, which has no real uniform cut nor source.
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Nice idea for a scenario, by the way. A tank would be nice, though..... sigh. I confess to being a bit of a treadhead at times, but the vision of an Army Renault (with Patton in the turret) chasing Cthulhtists and assorted beasties in support of the USMC is entertaining.
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I am sure I have seen what I believe was an Osprey on the Allied troops in Siberia during the RCW. There were American marines there. I can't reme,ber the title and couldn't find it while quick-browsing the Osprey site.
Lt. Hazel has the osprey in question, just send him a pm and I bet he'll take a look. Can't remember a winter camo, though.
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This is a big help in clearing things up! I think the author made up the "winter camouflage" thing for the story, because the Army didn't really have theater-specific cammo until after Vietnam.
Here's my recommendation:
1. Use WW1 US infantry in greatcoats. Paint them in stock khaki, and then paint whitewash on the helmets and greatcoats.
2. They'd ride into town in a Ford Liberty truck, one showing heavy signs of wear. Uncle Sam sees no reason to replace vehicles that aren't completely rusted out.
Any history of the USMC that focuses on gear or uniforms will tell you how they get the short end of the stick on everything. Marines were using the Springfield rifle, for example, well after the Army had switched over to the Garand in WW2. Marines were the only non-Soviets to use the M4A2 Sherman, and got all the halftracks the Army didn't want. Some of those lasted in service until Vietnam! "New" equipment for the Marines is typically something another branch is getting rid of, whether it's trucks, tanks, helicopters, or planes. To some extent this is less true today--but usually any big new procurement has the Marines using the export version.
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The American military was in pretty sorry state in the late 20s, and whenever the military is badly off, the USMC seems to have it worse than anyone. I'm confident there wasn't a regulation winter camouflage uniform.
A Marine fighting in the Arctic in 1928 would probably look like a bum, wearing a trench coat that been in storage for ten years, improvised mittens, mukluks, and a watch cap under his helmet. For camouflage they might use the old white bedsheets, or whitewash their jackets. If he was lucky, he might have a US Navy seaman's coat with fur lining and a hood.
And did they complain? Hell no, they were Leathernecks! No whiny army pussies! Who needs Winter Coats when you can p**s Napalm to keep you warm (alright, no Napalm before ´42, but they were so hard they were p*ssing it even before it was INVENTED! Frickin´a!) :x ;)
By the way, weren´t they almost permanently busy in the 1920s stabilizing Central America (Nicaragua)? Not much need for Winter Uniforms there, methinks.
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Stabilizing...
That's a good one! :lol: :lol:
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Making it more secure for American corporations is more like it. Still they did pioneer areal resupply and medevac there!
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Making it more secure for American corporations is more like it. Still they did pioneer areal resupply and medevac there!
Without delving too much into a protracted discussion on American Foreign Policy, I'll offer the following:
1. American infantry tactics in this century owe much to the Corps. In addition to areal resupply and medevac, the Marines also wrote the book on amphibious landing, and developed the first airmobile (helicopter based) tactics.
2. The most cogent critiques I've heard of our foreign policy have been by retired Marines, starting with General Smedley Butler, and continuing today. Marines aren't dumb.
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... the Marines ... developed the first airmobile (helicopter based) tactics.
I though that was the Air Cavalry? But on the other hand I got that from "We were soldiers".
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I though that was the Air Cavalry? But on the other hand I got that from "We were soldiers".
The Marines were jumping out of Flying Bananas and Sikorski H-65s in Korea.
The Air Cav was the first large purpose-organized air assault formation. The USMC aren't into purposely-organized forces. Marine commanders start with the objective and then tailor a force to match. It's why Marine organizational tables don't often tell you a lot about what bits of kit are going to be used. It's one of the most elegant features of the modern Corps, and something that is starting to catch on with the Army.
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Marines aren't dumb.
I'm sorry, but that just goes against centuries of Royal Navy lore. And you an O'Brian fan, too. You filthy turncoat!
Or maybe US Marines are somehow different...
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... the Marines ... developed the first airmobile (helicopter based) tactics.
I though that was the Air Cavalry? But on the other hand I got that from "We were soldiers".
I thought it was the Commonwealth in Malaya...
But hey, everyone and their grandmother claims to have invented absolutely everything.