Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Conflicts that came in from the Cold => Topic started by: frontal assault on October 17, 2011, 11:04:17 AM
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About five years ago I remember reading in an old copy of the Spectator (from Lancaster University Library) that there was a rumour that some in the military were planning to stage a coup if Labour was reelected in the November 1974 election. Anyway I decided to check this out and a quick search on Altavista brought to my attention a group called Greater Britain 1975 founded by David Stirling, a former soldier in the SAS. Stirling and his associates believed that the Labour Government and its leader Harold Wilson were a Communist Trojan Horse intended to usher in a soviet state in Britain and that when the time came they would have to overthrow the government to preserve democracy.
Thankfully none of this ever happened, but being prone to speculation I couldn't help but wonder what might have happened if it had. How many of the military would have been behind it? How would the Queen have reacted (admitteld y I think she would have denounced it)? How would the Americans and Soviets have responded? More importantly how would the people of Britain dealt with what was happening?
I'm aware that there are already a few wargaming scenarios for civil conflicts in this period of British history, including a great looking one set in the late 80s, but I feel that this one has some really interesting elements to it. Anyone else agree?
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forward 4 years for this LINK (http://winterof79.blogspot.com/)
don't forget to check out the pdf on the right hand side.
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There were rumours of planned coups in 1968 and 1974, which were investigated by MI5. Lord Mountbatten's name was frequently mentioned in relation to these. In 1974 Heathrow Airport suffered a couple of 'security exercises', which involved troops forming a 'Ring of Steel' around it, ostensibly as anti-terrorist exercises. Harold Wilson certainly made no secret in later years of his fears of a coup.
I don't see there being much chance of civil war, just the UK becoming a right wing-ish military dictatorship at worst. There was no political movement to step into the gulf that would be created, although extreme Conservatives (Enoch Powell?) might have been more prominent in the event. There was certainly some communist paranoia at this time and the spectre of Maclean, Philby and Burgess was still a raw wound.
Assuming that this all came off (or 'orf' as the new order might say), then I can see a resistance developing against it. The Trade Unions were certainly heading more to the left at this time. The biggest problem facing the resistance would be the lack of weapons in the UK. So anti-government sentiment, acts of peaceful resistance, weapons thefts and low level insurgency, perhaps developing into something bigger over time.
The Soviets would interfere at some point, probably committing funds and weapons, once they'd chosen the right horse to back. I can't see the US involving itself until things looked very bleak, if it got that far.
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I read a novel in the late 80's that my dad found called 'Land’s End', by Peter Francis Browne. It was set in the early 80's I believe where England has been taken over in a coup by the ‘New Elizabethan Party' and sees a fascist state implemented by Sir Matthew Hyde, President for life of England and Wales.
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although extreme Conservatives (Enoch Powell?) might have been more prominent in the event.
Powell was never on the extreme right (he despised the Thatcherite ideals), it's a disservice to imply he was, it's also a disservice to imply that he would break the Oath of Allegiance (which MPs take) and serve against the Crown or against Parliament.
Willie Whitelaw is also out as he was as straight as they come, he was also in the lead tank at the battle of Arnhem :o
Alternative what ifs? are great, but they really need to be credible to work. A better one would be a 'coup' against Thatcher by Right Wingers/Left Wingers, Lefty one would be easy, but a Right coup would be a lot more interesting. Afterall Thatcher didn't have a lot of supporters initially. Also the late 70's early 80's will be easier to get kit for.
MODS- if the above breaks the 'politics' rule, please say so and I'll delete it ;) rather than lock the topic.
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It’s an interesting concept and in some respects no more far fetched than the 1930s VBCW. In fact as I recall 3 or 4 years ago when VBCW began to be talked about as a potential alternative-history period, the 1970s were also discussed. I think the “tanks at Heathrow” exercise during the mid-Seventies was one of the catalysts. Harold Wilson’s resignation was certainly a shock when it occurred and there does seem to be some evidence that there was right-wing plot going on, but it probably had little support outside a few London gentlemen’s clubs.
Consider too that there was a near-civil war going on in Northern Ireland at the time which had reached its peak just a couple of years earlier in 1972 with “Bloody Sunday” and over 100 British troops killed in action during the year. I think you could theoretically have a situation where the armed forces are split between those loyal to the elected government and those siding with the senior officers who have mounted the coup. Firearms of all sorts were much more widely held by the general public than today and if you add ready supplies from Northern Ireland then an armed civilian militia is quite feasible.
As wargamers we seem to be quite happy with completely fanciful concepts such as Weird War Two so a VBCW2 in the 1970s does not seem completely outrageous. But as someone said earlier, just be thankful it didn’t happen.
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Powell was never on the extreme right (he despised the Thatcherite ideals), it's a disservice to imply he was, it's also a disservice to imply that he would break the Oath of Allegiance (which MPs take) and serve against the Crown or against Parliament.
Extreme Conservative isn't the same as extreme right, we're not talking about pseudo-Blackshirts, the NF, or anything like that. As I was speaking in the context of Lord Mountbatten possibly being involved, so there's no suggestion that Powell would be serving against the Crown either. A military dictatorship, where the Crown is theoretically the head of the armed forces, isn't a contradiction in terms and as Powell was an ardent Royalist, I don't see that he'd oppose the idea of an expanded role for the monarchy.
I really don't see a civil war coming out of it. A 'clarification of the constitutional crisis' following a removal from office of the 'wrong sort of prime minister' perhaps, maybe some rioting etc, but that's pretty much it.
I think 1974 is sufficiently 'historical' not to be current affairs, so I think we're on safe ground. :)
I don't think you can draw any comparison with this and VBCW. There's no constitutional crisis regarding the monarchy versus politicians, nor the same real level of polarity of politics. In 1974 we have a small group of people who thought, with little justification, that Wilson was going to drag us into the Warsaw Pact. The VBCW has a governmental system which wasn't elected, but just happened to be in the right place at the right time, while the elected politicians were trying to make a point.
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"In 1974 we have a small group of people who thought, with little justification, that Wilson was going to drag us into the Warsaw Pact."
It is an indictment on successive British governments that the patriotism and particular qualities of these people were not properly harnessed to the nation's needs. Removal of the tin foil lining of their bowler hats and perhaps a slight calibration to ensure terrestrial rather than extra terrestrial coverage could have rendered sites like RAF Fylingdale redundant and thus saved the British taxpayer millions of pounds.
As for the scenario I think it has one big thing going for it, a good reason to crank up the stereo and belt out TRB's Power in the Darkness.
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As for the scenario I think it has one big thing going for it,
SLR's and Chieftan tanks :-*
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Yeah that too. Personally speaking, I prefer SLRs and Centurions but that's just me. A Chieftain in Berlin Brigade urban camo would be a nice addition to the table though.
Back on topic. Eureka do an odd little range in 20mm of British troops in IS gear, tin hats and SLRs. Between them, the old Hotspur range and Airfix you would have pretty much all you need.
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SLR's and Chieftan tanks :-*
I'd vote for that ;)
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Dont forget to chech out RH Models modern British 1960s-80s, SAS/SBS and urban terrorist range, if you going to 20mm scale and check out the Winter of 79 blog. Lots of background info and good AARs of games played. http://winterof79.blogspot.com/
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I remember reading how the idea was floated between the coup plotters that Prince Philip would make a good figurehead... can't recall the source so anecdotal at best.
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A comparison pic. From left to right Eureka IS Brit, Elheim Indian army and then Hotspur IS Brit. Sorry the pic is a bit dark.
(http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z279/majormike69/CIMG1221.jpg)
The Hotspur IS pack now available from Stonewall miniatures.
(http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z279/majormike69/riot/digi1004.jpg)
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Excellent! An SLR and a fusiliers hackle, looks like my little brother, about the same height too lol
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Wasn't David Sterling a bit more than just "a former soldier in the SAS"?
If memory serves.... He was they bloke that started the SAS in the Western Desert during WWII.
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While looking for something completely different this came up during a Google search -
http://www.newstatesman.com/asia/2009/12/vietnam-britain-british-war
Just when you thoguth it was safe to go back to the alternative history scenarios :o
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NOW that is an intresting idea, I like how they added Rhodesia into the mix also.
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You have to admit there's some delicious irony in the article. Like the concept of an Alistair Maclean novel being "Booker nominated", or Max Hastings being involved in "celebrated battlefield despatches."
However the premise is probabaly less far fetched than a coup in 1975. Harold Wilson was under terrific pressure from LBJ to send even "just one g0d@mn regiment of the Black Watch!"
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There was a famous Private Eye cover featuring Harod Wilson, tongue out, kneeling behind the figure of LBJ, whose trousers were pulled down.
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There was a famous Private Eye cover featuring Harod Wilson, tongue out, kneeling behind the figure of LBJ, whose trousers were pulled down.
Which, as it turns out, was probably a bit unfair on the Gannexed one..............
Doug
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Indeed. Had it been Robert 'Ming' Menzies PM, a Scots-Australian, apparently incapable of pronouncing his own name, it would have been spot on.
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Just wikied David Stirling and found out the chap was actively opposing apartheid in the 50s and that while he did found GB75, he abandoned any ideas of military action after his plans were published by a pacifist magazine and when he realised the kind of right-wing nutters he was attracting to his cause. Given that it seems somewhat unfair to develop the idea of 1970s British Civil War with him as the instigator of any uprising. I'll have to rethink the idea and see if it has a future or whether I'll just go with the 79 and 88 civil war ideas.
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Or as in the winter of 1979, with a low intensity, civil IRA style with police and army raids, more loss of civil liberties and counter raids, and politically motivated actions by the different revolutionary or reactionary forces. Think of the IRA actions dearing the same time or ever in the Irish war of independence. Low intensity, small numbers involved but highly visible actions and politics made them seem and there actions bigger then they were.
Hell look at this group. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbionese_Liberation_Army
Lots of small groups like this were active in the us dearing this time, but luckily most didn't do any thing more then write long winded manifestos for there friends to read.
and here is a list of other Urban Guerrilla movements. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_guerrilla_warfare
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Or as in the winter of 1979, with a low intensity, civil IRA style with police and army raids, more loss of civil liberties and counter raids, and politically motivated actions by the different revolutionary or reactionary forces. Think of the IRA actions dearing the same time or ever in the Irish war of independence. Low intensity, small numbers involved but highly visible actions and politics made them seem and there actions bigger then they were.
Hell look at this group. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbionese_Liberation_Army
Lots of small groups like this were active in the us dearing this time, but luckily most didn't do any thing more then write long winded manifestos for there friends to read.
and here is a list of other Urban Guerrilla movements. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_guerrilla_warfare
I checked out the SLA link, as well as looking up the SCUM Manifesto (which I actually found pretty funny, till I read the author went on to shoot Andy Warhol), both of which would make for interesting scenarios. The last one reminds me of this two Ronnies Sketch called The Worm that turned, where a SCUM-style women's revolution has taken over the world and all men had to wear women's clothes. The two Ronnies were a kind of two-man Guerilla resistance band. Actually that would be a much better scenario for an alternative history wargame.
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Go with a good old fashioned coup d'etat followed by an uprising against a sort of 1970's cabal of Cromwellian colonels, it's no less silly than all the 1930s VBCW malarky. I always find it funny that the VBCW thing seems to miss more promising ground like the Invergordon mutiny, the Jarrow march or the period following the Great War. Oh well, the one thing to be said for such civil war scenarios is that they allow each gamer to provide their own answer to the perennial question 'Why are the Scots revolting?' ;)
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Real interesting history, with lots of wargame scenerio ideas....wow....my mind is racing at the moment. I need to step away from the computer before my head explodes. o_o
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and here is a list of other Urban Guerrilla movements. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_guerrilla_warfare
Oh my God! I just looked at that list and under the ALN I noticed some bugger has stolen my forum name. The cheek of it! ;)
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Oh my God! I just looked at that list and under the ALN I noticed some bugger has stolen my forum name. The cheek of it! ;)
:o We shell have to have words with that fellow. lol
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:o We shell have to have words with that fellow. lol
Well you can have words with him but you won't get much response, alas. As it happens I've been up to visit him on a couple of occasions, he's up in Quinta dos Lázaros in Salvador. Impressive tombstone, with his most famous poem carved on to it but not in the best of repair last time I was there. I heard they were going to clean it up for the centenerary of his birth, which falls later this year. I was hoping to go but that plan has fallen through.