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Miniatures Adventure => Post-Apocalyptic Tales => Topic started by: SBRPearce on 18 October 2011, 05:21:27 PM
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I know the short answer: "Never" :)
But there's a small local con coming up in less than a month, and I only have 72 zombies ready to play - 3 Wargame Factory packs, based as a 12-man "horde" and 60 individuals. I'll be using Akula's AR:SE rules, and of course zombie casualties will be instantly recycled.
But is it enough to present sufficient challenge to my players? The heroes will have a short squad of US Army National Guardsmen (Empress US Moderns - gorgeous figs) with a Humvee-mounted MG (Force of Arms), a package of Tactical Miniatures' "Big City PD" cops (5 officers) and a few (3-4) Hasslefree armed civilians. All in all, about a dozen effectives. The scenario is "Z-Day plus 7", where a mixed bunch of safety forces are sent into the city center to extract civilians who actually obeyed the mayor's "Stay In Your Homes" order of five days past. These are the folks who don't have cars or access to other transport, and the situation's gotten dire enough to try an evacuation.
The safety forces are (theoretically) supposed to establish a cordon, clear the area inside of "the infected", load the rescued civvies aboard commandeered school buses, then cordon off the next street and continue. Lather, rinse, repeat. The quick way to summon civvies from their homes (driving down the street with a bullhorn) will also draw every zed for a mile around. On the other hand, going house-to-house will be slow and dangerous, and will give the "zed-train" time to get rolling on your position. I expect a lot of creative tactical solutions from my players - they're a cunning and blood-thirsty lot.
But is it a sufficiently "target-rich" environment for them?
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Definatley more than enough
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The short answer is possibly, unfortunately the long answer is NO. To have any where close to enough you have to have Vampifans horde of 500+ zombies (I wouldn't be surprised if he is pushing closer to maybe the 650/700 mark by now). lol
I know my hoard is currently about 115-120 zombies, and I am always looking for more. Granted I probably wont use all of them in one game (ATZ primarily), unless its a big game where I have a couple other people joining in on where we each have our star plus 3-4 grunts under our control. I figure I can easily recycle the "dead" zombies as needed. I am always looking at getting additional zombies, just to continue building up my collection so I have a selection to choose from. The same goes with my survivors, I am always looking at getting more, just so I have a choice of what to use.
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I think I've read from some of the "zombie experts" (here, on the FoD, or on Frothers), than zombies should outnumber survivors in a 10:1 or 12:1 ratio.
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I played in a Zombie game at H-Con. My buddy running the game had almost 100 figures painted up. We ended up using another 20 unpainted figures...in total close to 120 Zombies for our game!!
Get painting!! o_o
Regards,
Hitman
8)
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I have about 120 or so as well for my gaming. I had to limit my zeds to a single minis case or I'd have so many more.
Brian
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I know the short answer: "Never"
You already answered your own question, so ...
No seriously, depends a bit on the game you're going to play. Could work but with zombies more is always better ;)
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If you do not plan on buying/painting more zombies, i may sugest that you use a "fog of war" type mechanic. players dont get the 'gods eye view' of every zed on the table. but as they turn onto a street, WHAMMO u drop a bunch of Z's. this will keep things CREEPY AS HELL for the players, and be a lot less taxing on your painting schedule.
Granted this may cause you to remove zombies from streets they passed up, and repopulate them in a newly discovered area. but i never said it was a perfect solution, it just adds a new element that many games dont have.
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Thank you for your input, gentlemen! Further acquisitions are planned, just not in time for the upcoming event...
DD-Chris: I've actually decided that I need to make "blind" markers that will populate uncleared buildings and also streets the safety forces haven't reached yet. Each blind represents "threat or rumor of threat", with no way to tell what it actually is until a scout actually puts eyes on it.
I'll probably have to devise a way for blinds to multiply - IE, if the characters bypass a concentration and kite off down a side street, the Zeds get changed into two or more blind markers, each of which has the potential to be all or part of the group that was spotted previously.
I have some Ebob dollies and I'll probably be making a few masters for casting my own Zeds, but that will clearly be a project for "Floor Wars 2012", not "Floor Wars 2011"
On a related note, any good source for female zombies? The Wargames Factory sprues are all men, leading my Lovely Bride to trumpet her sex's superior survival skills, come the Zombie Apocalypse.
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Studio do an almost 50/50 mix of male to female zombies.
Hasslefree have several lovely female zombies too.
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Bag O Zombies do male, female, clown and dog sets, generally 50 per set.
There's only one pose per set, but there are always clippers to remove arms and legs :)
The detail isn't great, but they're fine for hordes.
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Are they guest players or members of your group?
At the Nightmare on Froth street game at Salute a few years ago, Frothers attending brought zombies for the game, even if they didn't take part.
If not, maybe you can order the Victory Force bargain pack for a quick addition to the horde?
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I ran a zombie game last year at a con using A,R,S,E. The play area was a 4ftx4ft board and we used approximately 120 zombies . We ran games with six players controlling one randomly picked survivor. The game was set at Zed Day + 2 weeks. It worked very well. 120 zeds was enough to maintain the fear factor in the game.
ALSO THE bag o zombie figures are great for filling out a big horde.
dex
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i would also recomend the boardgame "last night on earth"
it comes with 2 styles of zombies a male 'shambler' and a female 'runner' but it also has some FANTASTIC survivor models. the only downside is the soft plastic they are cast in. but for $35 getting 8 survivors, and 30 zombies, is a deal in itself.
as for your 'blind' markers may i suggest this.
have a bag full of tokens numbered on 1 side. the numbers can be anywhere form 0-5. and place several of them on each street. when a scout gets within X inches, he can flip those tokens, and reveal how many zeds are at that location ( place them within X inches of the token ) as noise is made, you cay move the tokens towards the noise, you can do something as simple as 2 sided printed paper, side 1 being the numbers, side 2 being a picture of zombies, or an empty street, or a question mark, or of your bride "sorry sweetie, looks like u didnt make it"
lol
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Just to throw my rotten corpse in the pile here.
For our games we start with say 50 or so 'milling' around and then depending on how evil I'm feeling we then spawn up another load prior to game start using the spawn markers and 2d6 for the number of zeds per allocated spawn point. So we start a game with around 70- 100 on the table (the table being 6 foot by 4 foot, full urban spread). If you want 500+ on the table that's fine, but realistically, you gonna be using and moving and rolling for all of them.... nope didn't think so.
We use a ratio of at least 10:1 (hell you think there's a happy ending in zombie films!) sometimes up to 20:1, but this is a rule of thumb, I don't waste time working out the ratios, I'd rather play with what feels 'right'.
Blind tokens will work well, either mark them up or create a random roll table.
Bag o zombies are really too small for use with other 28mm zeds and wargames factory....erm plenty of other zombies out there. Want plastic, snaffle some old GW plastic zed bits and a few boxes of mantic games plastic zeds, lots of potential for kit bashing. Lots of options/zed conversions in my urban zed thread.
Good luck
The Commander
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Bag o zombies are really too small for use with other 28mm zeds and wargames factory....erm plenty of other zombies out there. Want plastic, snaffle some old GW plastic zed bits and a few boxes of mantic games plastic zeds, lots of potential for kit bashing. Lots of options/zed conversions in my urban zed thread.
True on all accounts.
Just want to add : don't just go for the mantic zeds alone, their ghouls are interchangeable with their zeds. just clip (some or all of) the pins of that stick out of their bodies. They do have more energetic poses (kinde like the fast running infected you see in 28 days later)
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True on all accounts.
Just want to add : don't just go for the mantic zeds alone, their ghouls are interchangeable with their zeds. just clip (some or all of) the pins of that stick out of their bodies. They do have more energetic poses (kinde like the fast running infected you see in 28 days later)
I meant that too ;) Just stay away from the WGF blobs..erm zobs, not nice. (Personally) The only good use for them is a few kitbashes with mantic zeds and ghouls.
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The Bag O Zombies figures are indeed small, but they can be made presentable without too much effort.
I did a couple of blog posts on this very subject: part 1 (http://zemjw.blogspot.com/2011/05/zombie-base-tutorial-1.html) and part 2 (http://zemjw.blogspot.com/2011/05/zombie-base-tutorial-2.html)
They'll never be ideal, but for hordes and cheap fillers, they paint up quickly and look okay
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Personal choice as ever mate, glad they work for you though.
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Thank you for your input, gentlemen! Further acquisitions are planned, just not in time for the upcoming event...
.... if you're in a hurry there are always Horrorclix Zeds which being pre-painted will quickly "bulk up" your horde.
BTW - Nice blog zemjw.
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Blind tokens will work well, either mark them up or create a random roll table.
Tokens are much underplayed, especially with fog of war and the idea that not all tokens have to be an actual figure, representing effectively nothing. This is a good way to induce panic in some players- imagine a lone survivor in a small hut with a circle of say twenty tokens around the hut, when there's only a dozen zeds, or avoiding an alleyway because of three tokens blocking it which represent nothing.
Got me twitching for a game now.
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Just to throw my rotten corpse in the pile here.
For our games we start with say 50 or so 'milling' around and then depending on how evil I'm feeling we then spawn up another load prior to game start using the spawn markers and 2d6 for the number of zeds per allocated spawn point. So we start a game with around 70- 100 on the table (the table being 6 foot by 4 foot, full urban spread). If you want 500+ on the table that's fine, but realistically, you gonna be using and moving and rolling for all of them.... nope didn't think so.
We use a ratio of at least 10:1 (hell you think there's a happy ending in zombie films!) sometimes up to 20:1, but this is a rule of thumb, I don't waste time working out the ratios, I'd rather play with what feels 'right'.
Blind tokens will work well, either mark them up or create a random roll table.
Bag o zombies are really too small for use with other 28mm zeds and wargames factory....erm plenty of other zombies out there. Want plastic, snaffle some old GW plastic zed bits and a few boxes of mantic games plastic zeds, lots of potential for kit bashing. Lots of options/zed conversions in my urban zed thread.
Good luck
The Commander
I agree here, I have around 180 but never get to use them all. The size of the table can also make quite a difference for smaller numbers of zeds and remember you can recycle the dead dead ;D
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The Bag O Zombies figures are indeed small, but they can be made presentable without too much effort.
I did a couple of blog posts on this very subject: part 1 (http://zemjw.blogspot.com/2011/05/zombie-base-tutorial-1.html) and part 2 (http://zemjw.blogspot.com/2011/05/zombie-base-tutorial-2.html)
They'll never be ideal, but for hordes and cheap fillers, they paint up quickly and look okay
They work very well with Mega miniatures modern ranges.
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Thanks, all.
I think I should be all right for this event. Of course, I'll be using every "fog of war" trick to shift the forces of the dead around the table, and it should avoid being a straight "thunder run" by my players because they'll have to deal with 2 additional obstacles: twitchy subordinates and panicky civilians.
This far into the Rise, the safety forces have taken a beating. So, each character has a Nerve number on their card. If the playing card turned up for Activation is lower than their Nerve, the controlling player can activate that character freely. Aces mean every character can act. Plus, each group of characters will have 1 Hero, whose Nerve never fails, so at least part of a player's group can act in each Go. But if the carddrawn is higher than the character's Nerve, they'll choke. Another character has to burn an action to Take Charge to get the shaky character under control. I'll need to make a Choke Table, I think - with unfortunate results like Freeze, Flee, Freak Out, etc. Civilians present will probably have Nerve of 3 or less.
The civilians hiding on the board are probably the ones who've rolled numerous "Freeze" results on the Choke Table - the ones who Fled ran into a pack and got devoured, while the ones who Freaked Out drew the pack to their location, with same results. It'll be necessary to Take Charge of the survivors as they're discovered and keep Taking Charge to move them to the waiting school buses. Convincing them to stay put while you work to fill the bus could be interesting - keeping them from trying to steal the bus and Flee could be really interesting.
I'll post a full AAR after the con - Floor Wars 2011, November 12 in Cleveland, Ohio (I'll understand if most of you fellows can't make it...)
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As others have mentioned, various factors can make more use of your zeds.
Start with some on table (including the horde, as its slow moving), and leave enough spare to bring on.
More spawn points gives more flexibility, as you can syphon in the zeds where you need them, to keep the game flowing.
Clever use of terrain, to provide choke points, eg long alley way, high fence, blocked road....all of these will slow up your survivors, and make even a couple of zeds into a challenging obstacle.
Maybe make ammunition scare, so they have to pick their shots, rather than blaze away from max range.
My own horde currently stands at 454, and counting - you really can never have enough
lol
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My own horde currently stands at 454, and counting - you really can never have enough
lol
I would expect nothing less :)
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I was sharing my woes with a friend (who will not be attending the event inquestion), and his reply was simple:
"Make 'em faster..."
So, their movement rate is slightly higher than in the basic AR:SE rules, and their "lunge" distance is a bit longer...
I'm chuckling in evil glee - a couple of players who will be in attendance are already making plan on how the Humvee with the .50 "will totally rule"... They somehow got the impression that it's an up-armored model with an enclosed turret. Needless to say, I haven't corrected their misapprehension. :D
Construction of buildings continues apace, with a 4-floor apartment building and DiNasti's Pizza shop taking shape on my bench this weekend.
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I am actually running a zombie game on halloween.
Total number of zombies
40
Terrain
4x4 with a single building, a small 2 storey farmhouse ( from MBA ) lots of trees, and open spaces.
did i mention that players w range weapons only have D6 shots remaining after their escape from the city >:)
other twists will appear later in the game ( such as the rescue vehicle only having room for a limited number of survivors ) as well as once a player is taken out by zombies, that player becomes a 'special infected' such as a fast running zombie, or a 'leaper', or one with a long lash like tongue... so then it becomes more "im dead, now so are you"
anyway, it sounds like you have your game very well planned out, and i wish you the best ! post some pictures so we can see !
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My hord atm is 3 painted, got 26 something unpainted tho.
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I promise a 'monster' AAR once the shooting has stopped. the gathering's scheduled for Saturday 12 November, so I'll be posting during the week following.
One suggestion my friend had was for players whose 'team' of 2-3 characters gets killed out early on - they can take control of a segment of the Zed horde (with command & control difficulties inherent in trying to countermand their programmed "guided missile type" behaviour). But this could represent the Zeds getting smarter as the game goes on...
For now, there's a very simple dead-brain flowchart controlling Zombie behaviour. I'm counting on the players trying to exploit it - they'd better.
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What i plan on doing for players that get eaten ( yes of the 12 players in my game, i am going to try and kill 12 )
they will become a speial infected, with their own new traits, running, jumping, long whip like tongues, whatever it takes to get players to start working together.
then when the call for help is made. 1 of 3 'responders' will come for the end game.
1- truck full of rednecks, rednecks will drive around the board, shooting zombies, and trying to pick up any female players. leaving male players behind
2- evil corporation containment team, a squad of 5 highly trained, armed to the teeth military style troopers, will be trying ot prevent players from leaving the town... at all costs.
3- news chopper, only has room for 2 passengers, i expect this is the point players will turn on eachother :D
my game is being run on halloween, so i will expect to get pictures up sometime later next week.
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Nice classic (and sterotypical) ideas there, should be a good game. My last game I ran had a kill team, totally efficient and ruthless, could not believe the number of headshots those guys rolled, 'PI's were their secondary target, (potential infecteds) so make sure they clean out the zeds first, then turn on the survivors? ;)
The Commander
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the objective will be for survivors to exit off the table from a given location... the containment teams job will be to keep them on the farm, and prevent the virus from leaking out into other parts. ( each of the 3 'end game' will have its own independant story line.)
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a la crazies then, so even if they get out...small tac nuke yup? ;)