Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Great War => Topic started by: ZeroTwentythree on November 04, 2011, 02:15:24 PM
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After years of enjoying Blue Max & Canvas Eagles (http://www.eaglesmax.com/), I've decided to start my own collection, and hopefully play more frequently, and maybe recruit some new players. These are the first non-wargaming-specific plastic kits I've built since I was a kid. The few I've already got are old Airfx kits, and I've got a few more Airfix & Revell kits on the way. In the next few days I plan on ordering a single flight stand kit from CorSec Engineering (Omni-Stand (http://www.corseceng.com/omni-stand) with sphere magnet.)
The first two kits I've built are a Sopwith Pup and a Fokker DR.I, both from Airfix. I still want to do all the rigging, and then (obviously) paint them. More comments about the kits, etc. are on my blog.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/ZeroTwentythree/WWI/pup0101.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/ZeroTwentythree/WWI/fkr_dri0101.jpg)
I've barely started this project and I'm already looking around at 1/72 infantry, etc. :D
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:o :o :o
Looking Good 023! Can't wait to see these painted with your usual skill.
Cheers,
Blue
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Thanks. I'm pretty sure this will also involve a little bit of an adjustment or learning curve, moving from painting mainly toy soldiers to painting models.
I'm waiting on getting the hardware for the flight stands before I can start painting. There will be one piece mounted on each plane, so I want to install that before painting. I think I may be able to make use of it for the painting process as well.
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No rigging needed on Dr 1 thanks to Anthony's genius.
Thank goodness for that!
I've started the rigging on the Pup. I've done the cross bracing so far. I've used 28 gauge steel wire. The rigidity helps make it easy to assemble. But it does look a bit thick.
In order to help work on it, I got impatient for working out a way of mounting. So I glued a small #40 nut on the bottom of the plane, roughly at the center of gravity. I then cut few 4" lengths of 1/2" wood dowel, with a small wood screw in each end. So I can use RE magnets to hold the plane on the dowel, and the dowel on my steel work table. Hopefully the nut works with the Omni-Stand I'd like to use. Based on the strong bond with the magnets I've already got, I think there are some other options as well.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/ZeroTwentythree/WWI/pup0102.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/ZeroTwentythree/WWI/pup0103.jpg)
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Almost finished with the rigging on the Sopwith Pup. I screwed a few things up, and it's not the cleanest bit of modeling, but it's my first one and 1/72 scale isn't exactly large. I forgot a second (forward) tail stabilizer on each side. I will go back and finish that.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/ZeroTwentythree/WWI/pup0104.jpg)
I also put together (minus pilot) the Albatross D.V. This is the last of the original 3 Airfix planes I had.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/ZeroTwentythree/WWI/albdv0101.jpg)
So, my question is... do I continue rigging all the planes? Some of them are far more involved than the pup. I'm trying to weigh the time & effort involved (which is significant, but not a horrible experience) with the fact that these are for playing games, not just display. So I've got some concerns about durability as well.
Here's a comparison shot.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/ZeroTwentythree/WWI/pupvsalb.jpg)
Still waiting on the batch of allied planes. Lost out on the German planes I was hoping to get on eBay, but I did stop at the semi-local hobby shop (Wings Hobby Shop in Lakewood, OH -- no web page). Like just about everything else in this damned city, it's on the opposite side of town from where I live. The selection of 1/72 WWI planes was predictably small, but they did have some. I grabbed a Fokker D.VIIF and two more DR.1's (one for me, one for a friend.)
The manufacturers are Eduard and Roden, and I can already see that they are better than the Airfix DR.1 and Albatross. The Airfix Pup was really a nice plane and of similar quality to the new ones I got, though.
Ordering a (some) flight stand(s) tonight.
As I've been inhaling all nature of unhealthy fumes while working on that first plane, I've been wondering... Why does Snoopy fly a Camel rather than a Pup?
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Does rigging of the planes make thet stronger, that is would they be able to stand up to players moving them around.
If yes, then rig them. If not, don't.
Also do you think they look better rigged?
Just a couple of my thoughts.
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...As I've been inhaling all nature of unhealthy fumes while working on that first plane, I've been wondering... Why does Snoopy fly a Camel rather than a Pup?
Because the aircraft involved in MvR's final flight (May's and Brown's) were Camels.
Most of the Airfix kits are nearly 50 years old so aren't quite up to today's standards. The Pup was the last of their releases and really is a jewel. The Airfix Hannover (which isn't half bad), the Roland and the 'Harry Tate' are your only choices in that scale so you're stuck with them. Otherwise, Roden is your best bet for most a/c, unless you want to spend the money on the better Eduard kits. Revell does a pretty decent Sopwith Tripe and their latest incarnation of the Dr.1 is quite nice, too.
When I last counted (several years ago), I had over 100 different 1/72 WWI birds (including some vacuforms, though) so you've got lots of choices. The total's probably a bit higher, now.
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I've managed to get some more planes. More Airfix, but also some Revell, and a couple Roden and an Eduard DR.1 to build for a friend.
I received the two Omni-Stands I ordered from CorSec Engineering (http://www.corseceng.com/omni-stand). I got the 5" bases. They are clear acrylic but come with paper backing on both sides -- which I suppose makes one of them "fronting" -- and a metal threaded receptor in the center. The paper is still on in the photos below. The two telescoping rods have spherical magnets on the top, one 1/4" and the other 3/8".
I had a chance to spend a couple hours at my stoodio between running errands today, and couldn't wait to test them out. They are exactly what I'm looking for.
I've used small nuts glued on the underside of the planes, as close to the center of gravity as I could get. I don't remember what size (saved the label in the container in which I'm storing them.) The smaller, 1/4" magnet is just strong enough to hold the planes in position. The larger magnet is almost a bit too strong, but I think I may keep a couple of those around in case I end up with some larger/heavier planes.
One mistake I made on the Fokker DR.1 was that I glued the nut appropriate for balance, but not far enough back from the plane that spans the landing struts. So it fits a little awkwardly. I'm not certain I can fix that at this point.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/ZeroTwentythree/WWI/fltstnd01.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/ZeroTwentythree/WWI/fltstnd02.jpg)
Almost done with the first DR.1. Not sure I got the colors & effect exactly right. Should look better with the markings on it.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/ZeroTwentythree/WWI/fkr_dri0104.jpg)
So I'll definitely be picking up some more of the Omni-Stands.
I'm also looking into the hex map issue. The two current options under consideration are 72" x 48" felt European Field map from Hotz Mats (http://www.hotzmats.com/), or having my own design printed locally on 72" x 48" outdoor banner vinyl. The former is about $60, the latter is $140.
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I think that looks splendid.
I've always found rigging biplanes a pain, so I've avoided it but the job you have done on that Pup makes me think that the effort is well justified. Excellent work, please keep posting updates.
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Wow! That looks awesome! :-*
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Thanks for the compliments.
Just noticed that CorSec also does hex mats (http://www.corseceng.com/fabric-mats/). I will take them into consideration too.
(I think I fixed all the links above, too.)
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Nice work, can't wait to see it painted
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This is a worthy tribute to those amazing guys, going airborne in bits of wood and fabric and hammering each other with machine guns. Far more guts than I could ever assemble.
That's the source of a large part of my interest. It's amazing to imagine the things they did with such basic planes. Crazy stories of guys standing on their seat to pound on a jammed gun in the middle of a dog fight, etc. And I just love the design of the planes in the first place.
Update...
I picked up a couple of paints for the Pup today. I took the Airfix colors, looked up the equivalent Vallejo Colors on the The Ultimate Model Paint Conversion Chart (http://www.paint4models.com/) and got something that looked not entirely dissimilar from what I expected based on illustrations, profiles, etc. Not really happy with the colors. The fuselage/wing color seems too light.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/ZeroTwentythree/WWI/pup0106.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/ZeroTwentythree/WWI/pup0105.jpg)
I haven't even bothered to show the bottom, as the color looks more "banana" and less "clear doped linen."
On the other hand, now that there's some paint in it, I like the rigging better. The glue joints are too pronounced, but I do like the rigging itself.
Still more touching up and finishing to do. And decals, of course. I'm not a huge fan of waterslide decals, so I'm probably going to postpone for a bit and then do several kits at once.
In other news...
I've started putting together the Eduard Fokker DR.1. for a friend and I've got to admit that it's a huge step up from the Airfix kit. Hopefully I can do it justice. I'm looking forward to working on the paint scheme (Lothar Von Richthofen)
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You're certainly coming along there. I agree about your main Pup colour, though. It appears too light. PC10, which was the major 'colour' used on British fighters, ranged from a greenish olive to darkish brown (chocolate). Yours certainly isn't 'chocolate'. Melted milk chocolate, maybe. ;)
The problem with converting one brand of paint's colour to another's 'equivalent' is that it's a bit of a mine field. I've seen a couple of 'matches' that were anything but!
Working from Wingnut Wing's Humbrol base for their Pup (if anybody knows, it'll be them - they've got real ones to play with!), I came up with these Vallejo colours for British WWI aircraft. There's not a lot of choice for paint schemes. (NIVO's a whole other can o' worms!)
PC10 Early (top of wings, fuselage) - 887 Brown Violet (V#124)
PC10 Late (top of wings, fuselage) - 872 Chocolate Brown (V#149) (I think this is the original Airfix selection)
Battleship Grey (usually cowling panels) - 973 Light Sea Grey (V#108)
Here's where it gets a bit 'you pays yer money, you makes yer choice'. The first colour is Wingnut's recommendation but I think it'll prove too dark for 1/72. It may be fine for their 1/32 kits but I haven't got that far yet on mine!
CDL (Clear Doped Linen) (undersides; sometimes overall) - 819 Iraqi Sand (V#124)
Going way back to Humbrol's discontinued line of WWI paints, I came across a second Vallejo variant that might work better in the smaller scales. It certainly looks closer in their paint chart.
CDL (Clear Doped Linen) - 858 Ice Yellow (V#13)
Hope this helps. Good luck!
Mike
(I have to go back to work on my 1/32 Gotha! What a monster!)
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Gad I had a bunch of these planes back when I was a teenager. In my early twenties we played WWI dogfights with them. We used rubber bands to stick the tails to a dowel on a stand. It is amazing how long these kits have been around. And are still the basis for gaming. I think mine are still in a box in the basement somewhere.
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Working from Wingnut Wing's Humbrol base for their Pup (if anybody knows, it'll be them - they've got real ones to play with!), I came up with these Vallejo colours for British WWI aircraft. There's not a lot of choice for paint schemes. (NIVO's a whole other can o' worms!)
PC10 Early (top of wings, fuselage) - 887 Brown Violet (V#124)
PC10 Late (top of wings, fuselage) - 872 Chocolate Brown (V#149) (I think this is the original Airfix selection)
Battleship Grey (usually cowling panels) - 973 Light Sea Grey (V#108)
Here's where it gets a bit 'you pays yer money, you makes yer choice'. The first colour is Wingnut's recommendation but I think it'll prove too dark for 1/72. It may be fine for their 1/32 kits but I haven't got that far yet on mine!
CDL (Clear Doped Linen) (undersides; sometimes overall) - 819 Iraqi Sand (V#124)
Going way back to Humbrol's discontinued line of WWI paints, I came across a second Vallejo variant that might work better in the smaller scales. It certainly looks closer in their paint chart.
CDL (Clear Doped Linen) - 858 Ice Yellow (V#13)
Thanks. I think I've got #872, so I may try painting that over the other color. The color on the Airfix kit (and box) is lighter, it's not the PC10 color. But it still looks wrong, and I prefer the darker color that's on most of the profiles I've seen.
Based on that chart I linked to, I tried the Ice Yellow, but it really seems a bit too yellow for CDL.
Thanks for you advice. I will be doing some touch-ups and maybe re-posting some pics.
(I have to go back to work on my 1/32 Gotha! What a monster!)
1/32?!? :o
At some point I'd like to do it in 1/72. But only after I've improved a bit. (And then, after that, there's the Roden Zeppelin-Staaken model...) But that's a long way off for me.
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A bit of poking around led me to these:
http://ww1aircraftmodelling.blogspot.com/2009/05/pc-10-definitive-version.html
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/other-wwi-aviation/2689-pc-10-formula.html
http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/Brian_144/RGB%2520Color%2520Grids/BritishColorsWWI.jpg
Since I paint in the more "traditional" sense, I've got plenty of ochre, lamp black and burnt sienna around. Maybe I will try mixing (plus thinning and adding some matte medium) some paints up in a small, seal-able container.
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Here's a link to Wingnut's Pup instruction sheet that you can download. Maybe it'll give you some ideas.
http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/807D9A66D30505DDD9B1B657DB64753B
Check out the rest of the site too. There are lots of colour photos of the flying replicas down in NZ, many of which belong to Peter Jackson. Some good shots of CDL in there.
The Gotha's only got a 29'' span. No big deal. ::)
I've got a 1/72 vacuform Staaken but don't have the Roden one yet. Every time it goes on sale, it's the version I don't want!
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Managed to fix the nut location on the Fokker, and I also repainted the top fuselage and wings on the Pup with a darker brown that looks much better. I didn't have the "Chocolate Brown" but I have the very similar (and slightly more neutral, from the look of the Vallejo color chart) "Leather Brown."
Didn't have time to take pics, but I'm hoping to spend at least a little bit of time at the stoodio this weekend, in which case I will spend some of that time on planes. Next on the agenda is to look at rigging the Albatross and finishing the assembly on Lothar's DR.1.
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I actually did this earlier in the week, but haven't had time to take a photo. My weekend was more or less shot, so no work on anything. I'm lucky to get time to post this brief update.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/ZeroTwentythree/WWI/pup0107.jpg)
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My book (per Captain Brown's recommendation on Warseer) arrived today. Condition on Amazon was advertised as "Very Good" but the book that arrived was in virtually new condition. The spine hasn't even been bent. Bonus!
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/ZeroTwentythree/WWI/IMAG1767.jpg)
I looked up the illustrator (Bob Pearson) because the name sounded familiar. Found his web page with a CD of color illustrations for sale. Might look into purchasing that at some point.
http://www.cbrnp.com/RNP/CDv2/index.htm (http://www.cbrnp.com/RNP/CDv2/index.htm)
I have also been following the blog (and referencing the web page) of W. I. Boucher.
http://wwiaviation.blogspot.com/ (http://wwiaviation.blogspot.com/)
http://www.wwiaviation.com/ (http://www.wwiaviation.com/)
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Have you checked Mark Miller's site? His work is astounding, particularly the cutaways, but I don't think it's been really updated for a while.
http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Miller/index.html
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Have you checked Mark Miller's site? His work is astounding, particularly the cutaways, but I don't think it's been really updated for a while.
http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Miller/index.html
Very cool, I like the renderings & profiles. Thanks!
I've finished assembling the Eduard Fokker DR.1 for a friend. From a distance it doesn't look so different from the Airfix DR.1. But the quality of the kit is far better, both in terms of detail and assembly. The only snag was that one of the struts was broken on the sprue. I believe I managed to repair it, though.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/ZeroTwentythree/WWI/fkr_dri0201.jpg)
I have also started assembling a Revell Sopwith Triplane for myself. It's wretched.Worse than the Airfix models (so far) to a similar degree that the Eduard model is better. I have a couple more Revell waiting to be built -- I hope they're not all like this.
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(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/ZeroTwentythree/WWI/air01.jpg)
Here's a shot of everything I've got done so far. Since the last entry, I assembled the Revell S.E.5a, which looks great and went together very quickly and painlessly - a big difference from the Tripe.
Note, the DR.1 on the "ground" is the Eduard model I'm working on for a friend, not mine. Earlier this week I picked up some "music wire" from the local hobby store. It's a little finer than the wire I used on the Pup. I'm going to try it out on the minimal rigging on the DR.1.
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Thanks for bringing those rules to my attention! I really need to get into air wargames and these I might just have to use. Splendid models to! Keep it up
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Back from the (almost) dead...
I've moved into the new house, and between moving, work and our almost 1 year old (already?!?!) daughter, I haven't had a chance to completely unpack my painting/work area. I've been itching to paint, but sick of digging through boxes trying to find the remainder of my painting supplies. But most of the modeling stuff is ready. So I've taken a few late night breaks from everything this week, and started putting together a few more planes.
Initially, my thought was to even out the Allies/Central ratio -- so I wanted to put another Central plane together. After far too much deliberation, I decided on a Roden Pfalz D.III, mainly on the weight of it being almost as sexy looking a plane as the Albatross D.V. Unfortunately the Roden kit is not quite up to "the sexy." It's got a ton of flash, is very delicate, and the kit doesn't seem to be broken into components in the most ideal way. The whole back portion of the fusilage actually sheered off at one point. I think I've got that repaired pretty well, but the front portion has horrible seams, even after trying to file, sand and putty it all together.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/ZeroTwentythree/WWI/pfalzdiii-01.jpg)
At some point I just got frustrated and started working on an old Airfix SPAD XIII. What a difference. It's a very nice kit, easilly as detailed as the Roden kit, but without all the flash, fragility, and awkward assembly. The only down side to this particlar kit is that it was an opened second hand kit in a bag, and was missing one of the wheel covers. Not a huge losss, I've left them both off and will just try to fill & sand the wheel where the axle shows through (I already trimmed it back priorto assembly. The other negative -- and this is 99% my fault -- is that the horizontal stabilizer isn't level. I missed this in the dry fit, and even after a bit of knife & solvent work (and thinking I had it fixed!) it rebounded back into its incorrect possition.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/ZeroTwentythree/WWI/spadxiii-01.jpg)
One other thing I've done is to assemble a custom kit-bashed resin designer toy combined with some spare plane parts (another SPAD) and other bits. The bonus is that this gave me a chance to try out "music wire" for the rigging, rather than the other types of wire I had been using. I'm completely converted. The music wire has a fine memory and snaps back into place very well. Very easy to work with, too. No more saging or bent lines!
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/ZeroTwentythree/toys/df05.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/ZeroTwentythree/toys/df06.jpg)
After doing the rigging on this toy and discovering the joy of "music wire" I will be going back and rigging the previously assembled planes that had planned painting while ignoring the rigging as too much fidley detail.
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Great that your project is getting going again - can't wait to see more
I know when some of the guys at our local club did this a few years ago they had some probelems with kits not having pilots. They found a good source in Reiver Castings.
Keep up the good work :)
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That flying dog looks great already - keep us updated, please.
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I know when some of the guys at our local club did this a few years ago they had some probelems with kits not having pilots. They found a good source in Reiver Castings.
I've already run into that, as the Pfalz doesn't have a pilot. I'm thinking about tracking down this kit: http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=539 to solve the pilot issue.
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There is certainly a good selection there. The River figures are metal, which may be a disadvantage, but come without bases which may be in their favour.
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Finally finished assembling the Roden Pfalz D.III. This is easily the worst/ugliest assembly job I've done. I'm really not fond of the kit. Don't like the way it assembled, the flash, the lack of a pilot, and the flimsy landing struts. Although there is nice surface detail, I prefer sacrificing for softer details on the (mostly) easier to assemble Airfix kits -- especially considering they're 1/72 scale.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/ZeroTwentythree/WWI/pfalzdiii-02.jpg)
Still need to do the rigging. I bought some more wire, so I'm thinking about rigging the last few planes I've assembled (Pfalz, Albatross, SPAD & SE5a) and maybe even starting to actually get some more painted (gasp!)
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The Roden 1/72 scale aircraft kits are ex Toko moulds. I'd guess they are 20-25 years old.
The Roden 1/48 scale kits are new moulds and there are no problems with flash, at least not on the ones I have.
Nice project, looking good.
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My book (per Captain Brown's recommendation on Warseer) arrived today. Condition on Amazon was advertised as "Very Good" but the book that arrived was in virtually new condition. The spine hasn't even been bent. Bonus!
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/ZeroTwentythree/WWI/IMAG1767.jpg)
http://www.cbrnp.com/RNP/CDv2/index.htm (http://www.cbrnp.com/RNP/CDv2/index.htm)
http://www.wwiaviation.com/ (http://www.wwiaviation.com/)
Just a heads up to US LAF'ers. I was in the local Half Price Books this weekend and they are offering thios for $7.99. It looked like a good deal.
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I've already run into that, as the Pfalz doesn't have a pilot. I'm thinking about tracking down this kit: http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=539 to solve the pilot issue.
I don´t use the pilots in my builds so if your looking for some ;)
The dark dream figs are a wee bit thick around the waist..you´ll need to trim them to get them into the cockpits.
Nice collection you´ve started. :)
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ARISE OLD FRIEND, AND WALK AMONG THE LIVING ONCE MORE...
After a long break from painting/gaming, and this project in particular....
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/ZeroTwentythree/0multiplog/lothardr1_zpsbqlvzzu5.jpg)
A loooong time (several years) overdue 1/72 plane for a friend. Lothar von Richthofen's DR1. The model is from Eduard and probably the best 1/72 plane kit I've put together.
I really like Lothar's plane, its colors are even more striking than his more famous brother's. I'm thinking I'd like to do a second one for myself.
Speaking of WWI... I played Wings of Glory for the first time earlier this week. One of my co-workers picked up one of the paired plane sets, along with a couple of single planes, and a game mat. Pretty easy to learn, and along the lines of Blue Max/Canvas Eagles, it's a pre-planning game of trying to predict your opponents actions and plan accordingly. I think I actually like the three move planning better, and the cards really help keep the game moving fast (once we figured everything out.) The planes are very nice.
Sooooo.... I've been digging through my box of unfinished planes this evening.... ;)
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Stunning.
I repainted a DVII as Lothar's (the short time he was in one) to use in Wings of War/Wings of Glory.
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oh that's very very nice :-*
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Nice dreidekker!
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Ohhh, that's nice! 8) 8) 8) 8)
You could build up some cotton wool to give you some clouds to fight round for cover.