Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: Conquistador on 11 November 2011, 01:07:16 PM
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;)
Okay, to not hijack the recent thread on Boxer rebellion 25 mm figures :) and because I think I really need to try a 15 mm (instead of more 1/600th aircraft, 1/300th historical/SF, or another 25 mm historical) army, :o I am looking at the Boxer Rebellion. ???
I think I need some more more research lol (when is it "enough?) into the conflict and was wondering about this comment "...The allied involvement can be broken down into the Legation Siege (probably the least gamable part), Seymore's Relief Column (probably the most balanced and gamable bit), the Siege of Tientsin (mostly Russians) and the main relief column (lots of Allied troops and fairly one sided battles). But most of the attention gets focussed on the legations..." 8)
Please :D suggest books that include decent coverage about the Seymore Relief Column portion of the conflict. Other books will be appreciated but I like scenarios that are fairly "game-able" (yes, whatever that means to individuals.) Field battles are good for armies, siege's for "skirmish level" games (small actions, often desperate, in a siege,) in my experience.
Gracias,
Glenn
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Hiya,
Right there is a very basic overview in the Osprey title "Peking 1900" and their original MAA book, then there is Peter Flemming's "The Siege at Peking" and more recently there is Diana Preston's "Besieged in Peking" (I'm almost certain this has been republished under another title), Henry Keown-Boyd's "The Fists of Righteous Harmony" and "China, 1900: The Eyewitnesses Speak" by Sharf & Harrington. There's also "Military Operations in China 1900-1901" (official history - not as informative as you might think) and Ian Heath's Armies of the 19th Century:Asia:China from Foundry. Then there is the finding of odd snippets here and there in other works.
All of the above leave big gaps though, and I constantly find myself wanting to know more. The other thing is that most of these are written from the British/American point of view. I'd love to find accounts from other nationalities, including the Chinese. it is also worth remembering that by far the largest commitments of foreign troops came from Russia and Japan - the Western troops committed were almost trivial numbers by comparison.
I'm no expert on the subject (just an enthusiastic amateur) and I'm sure there is loads of other material out there too. So, I'm more than glad to find out what others know too.
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Should have pointed out that the best account of the Seymore Expedition that I can find is the one I previously mentioned by Lieutenant Schlieper in "China, 1900..." but it still leaves lots of questions. There is a wargaming scenario booklet on Seymore that crops up on Ebay regularly, but I can't recall any further details.
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Great start, muchas gracias. 8)
All I have currently is the Osprey MAA 95 "The Boxer Rebellion." ;)
Gracias,
Glenn
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There is a wargaming scenario booklet on Seymore that crops up on Ebay regularly, but I can't recall any further details.
Is this the one -
CC002 - Boxer Rebellion
The Boxer Rebellion: Admiral Seymour's Relief Attempt, by Mark Fastoso from Colonial Campaigns.
Contains a history of the campaign, description (and painting guides) of the forces involved, and 10 scenarios.
I've seen it for sale here - http://www.thewcp.co.uk/product.php?ItemID=1832
Cheers,
Barry
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....and don't forget the Chuck Heston film............
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....and don't forget the Chuck Heston film............
No, please, LET'S forget the chuck Heston film...
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No, please, LET'S forget the chuck Heston film...
What? Are you suggesting that it isn't an accurate recreation of a colonial campaign? :o
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I'm not SUGGESTING anything ;)
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back to being a little more serious, I've just come across the following website that is new to me:
http://www.boxeraufstand.com/
Apologies if it is old hat to others. I don't speak German, but it does contain some very useful little maps relating to Seymore if you click on "1900", then "Juni".
I haven't had a chance to look around the site fully yet - who knows what gems it may be hiding?
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Hobbit -
That's a very interesting site.
I look forward to seeing more on this thread.
Now if anyone has any links to decent pictures of buildings....
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The Boxer Rebellion...yippie!!!!!!!!! o_o
I can suggest the following books:
Vaughan (2000) St. George and the Chinese Dragon - Col. Vaughan rode with the 7th Rajputs with the relief expedition...he was also a good artist and the book covers the uniforms as well as maps and such.
Preston (2000) The Boxer Rebellion - provides a good overview of the affair.
And of course there is Fortescue's 'History of the British Army' series.
http://www.fortescue-british-army-history.com/13.htm
I have a number of other books in my collection but they are all long out of print and in general difficult/impossible to find...so I haven't listed them here.
I would also suggest you search the online books...http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=boxer%20rebellion
Finally, if you want graphics and such make sure you search through the Anne S.K. Brown Military Collection at Brown Univ. It is all online and available to download.
Enjoy! ;)
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Likewise Issur Danielovitch* in Vikings roused me to read about them
...and that was before they added a Wesh name to the family tree!
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After you get done with your historical research you can then follow the path I've followed. Invent your own Boxer Rebellion events. My games will be based around the actions at Poquin (the troops, naturally, have perverted that into Poo-Queen, which is actually how its pronounced) and the siege of the Consulates in and around the Spring Palace Of Divine Concubines. Poquin is a bit up a major river but not so far from the coast that gun boats can't get close - the river is navigable for most of the year to shallow draft vessels. And there is a railroad and an arsenal and some open country - and there are a number of battles out in those rural places.
What with the real events being better and better known, I figure a fictional campaign really opens up a lot more possibilties for putting the toys to use.
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Indeed, no matter how well researched our armies are we are still engaging in a historical fiction/fantasy - so I have no problem with fictional settings. I just have an inner obsesive who wants to research things :)
Likewise, I understand that historical films can fire the imagination, I just get upset when people confuse them with real history instead of recognising them as reel history (do yo usee what I did there, huh, huh?).
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Should add, on the subject of historical fantasy, that I'd thought of doing a "Great War" in early 1900s China where the Great Powers fall out over the division of the spoils and come to blows - each side having their troops backed up by Chinese auxilliaries - would make for a great "what if..." campaign.
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What do you mean about Planet of the Apes not being history :o?
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With degrees in both history and geography (Computer and Traditional Cartography track within the major at the University of Washington ) I hear your pain.
Magic fueled the Renaissance, don't you know?
"Fortunately" it's not just my fellow Americans. There was report of the British students majoring in Hospitality who selected "bus" as the cheapest transportation for tourists to some islands off the coast of France, Jersey or Guernsey, I forget which. While my professionally paranoid work persona wonders if that's an urban myth I sadly don't find it unlikely based on 60 plus years of observing humans...
That said, there are many more items that people learned in school as "facts" that are not seen as unquestioned by historians anymore, and not just that stupid Cherry tree story about George Washington.
Gracias,
Glenn
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That said, there are many more items that people learned in school as "facts" that are not seen as unquestioned by historians anymore, and not just that stupid Cherry tree story about George Washington.
Does that mean he owned up to something he didn't do? How very unpresidential of him. :D :D
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Groooan. :'(
Gracias,
Glenn
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So he might have said (read my lips) "Father I did not have axe with that tree".
Was he holding his chopper at the time?
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More recent research has shown that Washington was actually born in Texas, and it was a Mesquite rather than a Cherry tree. When he told his father what he had done his father replied 'Can't tell a lie, eh? Right, we're moving to Virginia. Theres no future for you here in Texas!' :D
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"Don't believe nothin' them good fer nothin' cow punchin' Texans say! They tried to tell me the good ole U.S of A. was located some a-where's up in north Texas. Then they shouted out something about a sailing boat - what's a cow poke know about ships. Have a nice day "yawl"? Bloody heathen's. Give 'em back to Mexico, I say!"
;)