Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Conflicts that came in from the Cold => Topic started by: benglish on 13 December 2011, 03:40:03 AM
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Hey guys.
Looking for suggested sources for 28mm figures for British Army in Northern Ireland, late 70s/early 80s with SLRs, etc. Thinking the Mo-Fo Falklands British from Gripping Beast might work. Any others?
What about 28mm 70s civilians and insurgent types?
Any help appreciated.
Thanks
brian
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Diorama?
I'm not sure how on earth would you game NI, even if one were so inclined. I'm not but your mileage may differ.
Newline Design sell Mo-Fo British troops for the 1980s, same sculptor as the GB ones I believe. SLRs and SMGs, no body armour, they are wearing tin hats and almost certainly too much personal kit so you would have to do some pretty heavy duty conversion work as you will with the GB figures. Most of them are in fairly active poses too.
Combat Miniatures did do a range of British troops in IS gear in 20mm, I think someone still produces them. Not your desired scale.
PIRA? Look for civilian figures that look like homicidal welfare recipients.
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Not a period I'd have thought would be much fun to game... But hey, each to their own. MoFO & Mongrel both do 'full kit' brits, as already mentioned. The Geezers range has police, civillians and criminal gunmen which could probably be used as Terrs. I cant think of any other figures which would work off hand, as all the other insurgent types are wearing too much kit.
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What those guys both said....
A couple of the figures from the Mo-Fo Argentine and Mercenaries range would work as Provos, but you'd be discarding more out of a pack than you'd use. You'll only need a couple of figures for them, in fact you could do without figures for them at all, as the most common encounter was a few shots fired from a window or other concealed position, after which they'd vanish.
The most common opposition for the Army and RUC were groups of stone and bottle throwing youths, like these (http://www.offensiveminiatures.com/catalogue.asp?RID=7&CID=3#) from Offensive Miniatures. Some of them are a bit too modern though.
Seriously though, I'd agree on the lack of tactical challenge... most ops were like searching for a black cat in a coal house, when there was no cat there in the first place.
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Royal Ulster Constabulary would be hard to find however I have seen someone do a Hotspur landrover......if I could just find it....
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wasen't this one was it?
(http://www.voltansshed.com/451/lanny1.JPG)
If so it's a slightly modified S&S snatch lanny
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Just missing the Confidential Telephone number on the side.
Now if someone made a 28mm Vulcan Bomber I might be tempted to game NI. ;)
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I think a game called "West Midlands Serous Crime Squad" might be fun. It would be a bit like "Guess Who?" but the faces would all be beardy Irishmen.
Just pick six. Any six, doesn't matter. There are no consequences if you pick the wrong faces, or if you take the game board, throw it down some stairs and smash it to bits.
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Colonel Mustard, in the drawing room, lead pipe.
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Yuip mofo and Mongrel most definately, there was a Mofo pack of terrorist types with 1980s weapons but also check some of the TAG russians in balaclavas.
Civis are pretty much covered for rioters with offensive and also (bugger cant think of name) ones doing British riot cops and rioters.
Vehicles Sloppy Jalopy have ideal british kit for this.
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Colonel Mustard, in the drawing room, lead pipe.
More like Paddy O'Toole, with the Semtex, in the Rotunda...
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Civis are pretty much covered for rioters with offensive and also (bugger cant think of name) ones doing British riot cops and rioters.
Offensive Miniatures have already been mentioned. There's also Urban Beat from North Star - but both of these ranges may be too modern.
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The Urban Beat figures are too modern for 70's and 80's NI. The MoFo Brits have about the right level of kit, but you would have to use the figures in berets, Falklands Helmets are the wrong model, Infantry wore the early pattern helmet that replaced the Brodie type in 1944, and Paras wore the same style helmet they had worn in WWII. And of course, you would need to fit visors to the helmets. You will mainly want your Brits armed with SLRs and Sterling SMGs, although the Royal Marines used M16s in NI. As for RUC, you might get away with Musketeer Miniatures RIC figures, and just add body armour. For the bad guys Mongrel Miniatures might be the best choice. I do agree that it doesn't offer much in the way of satisfactory wargaming (for many reasons), as a "period" for me.
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Hey Guys.
This was a great help. Thanks.
I know this forum can have lots of UK folks on it, so didn't mean to offend. A similar post on TMP caused a knock-down drag out.
Excuse my American insensitivity to the subject ... I know it was (and to a certain degree, still is) something of a touchy issue. But by the same token, I find it kind of strange that there are piles of posts and figures and game rules based on the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. If you ask me, this is apt to be considered a lot more controversial being that these conflicts are both recent, and in the case of one, still being fought.
I hardly see the difference between gaming British Forces vs. PIRA and USMC vs. Taliban insurgents.
Like I said, I'm coming from the American side of things. But I don't get offended by people gaming scenarios where a US patrol is IED'd and ambushed by terrorists. Why is there such a big reaction from the UK contingent at the idea of gaming scenarios where a British patrol is ambushed by terrorists?
Not trying to start an argument or anything. Just wondering.
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Like I said, I'm coming from the American side of things.
Then try to imagine how you would feel if someone asked your advice about a game involving flying aeroplanes into New York skyscrapers.
Also, alas, "the American side of things" involved providing the IRA with much of its funding (while Gaddafi's Libya provided some of its training). Mind you, the Americans aren't unique in this. For example, the Provisional IRA was founded by an Englishman, John Stephenson, who liked to call himself Sean mac Steofain because his parents were Irish. Sentimental Irishry has a lot to answer for.
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Much Like Steve,
Remember for us over in the British isles it is recent history and lasted (still going on in Ireland though played down in the press these days and more akin to organised crime) for many years, infact most of my life. Many have lost friends and family to terrorist actions or know someone who was involved in the troubles one way or another. It also affected our lives with it being in the news, for myself being in the forces in the 1980s and 1990s it meant a constant vigil and the fear of attacks or reprisals, bombings etc of friends and family for merely being in the armed forces whether in Ireland, Britain or overseas, try and imagine your US troops stationed in Britain being in fear of their and their dependants families being blown up or gunned down.
It wasnt a stand up fight in a lot of cases, being bombings, knee capping and revenge killings, not really so much of a fight to game there which ever side you would game with.
Dont forget either there were Loyalist organisations, and splinter groups of the IRA. YOu also have strong sectarian groups in Scotland too such as the Orangemen etc so it runs quite deep.
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Actions that would most typify the conflict would be a bomb going off in a public place or masked men walking into someone's living room and shooting them in front of their kids. Stand up fights between insurgents and military? Not so much. I'm not offended, and it didn't seem to me that anybody in any of the responses was offended either. I just don't think there is much of a game to be had there.
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Then try to imagine how you would feel if someone asked your advice about a game involving flying aeroplanes into New York skyscrapers.
Also, alas, "the American side of things" involved providing the IRA with much of its funding (while Gaddafi's Libya provided some of its training). Mind you, the Americans aren't unique in this. For example, the Provisional IRA was founded by an Englishman, John Stephenson, who liked to call himself Sean mac Steofain because his parents were Irish. Sentimental Irishry has a lot to answer for.
Not exactly sure the 9/11 comparison is fair. And this kind of comment is what I mean. Who said anything about "gaming" a pub bombing? If you paint up an SS unit, do you intend to have them "gaming" a concentration camp? Gimme a break.
You think my blood doesn't get riled when I read about US soldiers being IED'd in Afghanistan?
To be honest, I find this kind of attitude pretty hypocritical, especially in a wargaming forum. If you do historical gaming (or in this case, let's call it "current events" gaming), you're going to tick off someone if you look too deep into things.
I'm not blind to the fact that there was a lot of funding to the terrorists (and I absolutely consider them terrorists) from Americans through organizations like NORAID. The most absurd version of this was all the "Irish" cops in NYC raising funds for guns that would then end up killing Irish cops in Belfast. Nuts. And you're dead right -- the "faith and b'gorah" view of the typical Irish American definitely fueled that nonsense.
Sure, it runs deep. But I find it funny on a forum like this that this conflict should be especially offensive. There are two young men from my neighborhood who went overseas and did not come back ... but I don't go on the forums and post comments to people playing Force on Force saying, "why would you want to game something like that?" Or, for that matter, criticize British figure manufacturers for creating lines of Taliban troops.
Let's get some perspective.
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Actions that would most typify the conflict would be a bomb going off in a public place or masked men walking into someone's living room and shooting them in front of their kids. Stand up fights between insurgents and military? Not so much. I'm not offended, and it didn't seem to me that anybody in any of the responses was offended either. I just don't think there is much of a game to be had there.
I was thinking there might be more "sniper hunt" kind of scenarios. Fair point, though -- not big on stand-up fights.
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Not exactly sure the 9/11 comparison is fair.
Northern Ireland, like 9/11, was mainly about people with weapons killing people without weapons. The comparison is entirely fair, though certainly not exact.
And if you posted on a forum with a large Afghan or Iraqi membership, I expect you would get a lot of objections to the tastefulness of games based on current and recent fighting there.
Several of us tried to respond to your initial question in a sensible and measured way. Your heated response seems to me to indicate that there is little point attempting to engage with you further, so I will not return to this thread.
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OK fellas, I understand why it´s delicate for some people but please remember the forum rules. Not too much political discussing.
Enough hints for manufacturers are given, I´ll lock this topic now.