Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: gloriousbattle on 21 December 2011, 09:27:52 PM
-
WARNING! IF YOU ARE NOT A BUTTON COUNTER, READ NO FURTHER! YOUR HEAD MAY EXPLODE!!! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!
I'm usually anything but a button counter myself, but, for some reason, the following question has been nagging at me.
Look at the foreground soldier below:
(http://wargamesfactory.lefora.com/composition/attachment/907e1547482edf5ac757b4eeffbd2331/286781/RB_72003_600.jpg)
Now, what color are the straps on his harness? White, or a lighter shade of khaki?
It appears to me that the artist is attempting to show a set of white straps that are overlain with dust, so that they appear almost, but not quite, the same khaki as the uniform jacket. Considering that this guy is probably in some dusty place like the NW frontier, or the Sudan, this makes perfect sense.
So why do the great majority of painters do the straps in white?
This and similar has always seemed to me to be inconsistent with the idea that most serious wargamers don't finish their figures in gloss because they don't want a parade ground look, but there is nothing more 'parade ground' than a clean uniform, and, after about an hour in the field (less on a rainy day) any vet will tell you that his uniform is no longer the same color as when he started out.
Just curious.
Wh
-
I can't see anything to look at...did you post the pic???
-
I cannot see your pic either but I get your gist ;)
Plynkes and the other real experts will be along shortly with the full answer but my two penneth is...
In some theatres the troops dyed their webbing to give it a more "khaki" colour as well as your plausible suggestion.
White gives a very high contrast which I find pleasing to the eye but I also always use an "off white" just to roll it back that little bit.
Svennn
-
In some theatres the troops dyed their webbing to give it a more "khaki" colour as well as your plausible suggestion.
Yup.
British army webbing up to 1883ish was white, but was often dyed khaki by the troops, or simply turned the colour due to dust etc. It was changed to khaki officially with the rest of the uniform in the mid-1880s.
How often it was dyed is a question in the same league as that of pith helmets*, although webbing was probably dyed less than the helmets.
Like Svenn, I too paint my redcoat's webbing 'off-white'. Dusty, as it were.
*And I'm pretty sure none of us want to go there again.
-
Short of jumping in a quagmire, no amount of campaign dirt is going to make blancoed equipment look anything other than white.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Blanco.jpg)
These guys have just fought a battle in the Western Desert, with all the associated dirt, dust and smoke. There is still quite a contrast between their equipment and their uniform.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/blanco2.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/m_british_SA.jpg)
On the other hand, if it hasn't been blancoed white, but has been stained with tea or something else to be less visible, it will match the uniform shade more. There is no issue here. Paint yours whichever way you like. Both ways are right, depending on the unit, time and place.
-
P.S. The pic isn't showing up for me either, but I used my evil powers to look at what Gloriousbattle had typed and grabbed the image from the place he was trying to link to:
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/RB_72003_600.jpg)
-
I can see both plynikes and my pics. Hmm. Can you see mine now? :(
-
It comes and goes, oddly.
Some sites won't allow hotlinking, which may be an explanation.
-
Plynkes is correct.
Gear was stained on campaign and therefore would vary in colour.
Go with what suits, but keep it lighter than the uniform. Personally I use a cream colour which is then washed over with citadel devlan mud (I dont dip - this works for me tho).
-
Plynkes is correct.
Oh, I wouldn't doubt that. He certainly knows this period.
However, I was in the US army in the late 80s, and we wore the BDU, which was pretty dark. After several road marches in the Mojave Desert, I can safely attest to being a uniform khaki color after an hour or so.
Perhaps different deserts have grit of different coarseness?
-
This link might help:
http://www.blancoandbull.com/potted-history-of-web-cleaning/
Merry Christmas and all that!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
The first photo I posted was taken shortly after the battle of Omdurman in the dusty Western Desert, not on a parade ground. The equipment those troops are wearing is still white, it has not become the same colour as their uniform.
So the answer to your original question,
Why do the great majority of painters do the straps in white?
is that there is no earthly reason not to, if that's what you want to do. You don't have to take my word for it: The photographic evidence clearly shows that it is okay to paint white blancoed equipment in a campaign setting.
-
The first photo I posted was taken shortly after the battle of Omdurman in the dusty Western Desert, not on a parade ground. The equipment those troops are wearing is still white, it has not become the same colour as their uniform.
So the answer to your original question,
Why do the great majority of painters do the straps in white?
is that there is no earthly reason not to, if that's what you want to do. You don't have to take my word for it: The photographic evidence clearly shows that it is okay to paint white blancoed equipment in a campaign setting.
Not trying to go to battle over this. As I said, you clearly know the period very, very well.
-
Oh, I wouldn't doubt that. He certainly knows this period.
However, I was in the US army in the late 80s, and we wore the BDU, which was pretty dark. After several road marches in the Mojave Desert, I can safely attest to being a uniform khaki color after an hour or so.
Perhaps different deserts have grit of different coarseness?
I assume (yse, I know that is dangerous) that the webbing is leather or something similar, so the dirt/dust that permeated your BDUs wouldn't be able to do the same to this stuff...
Just a guess.
-
Indeed, it's leather rather than webbing. 1888 (Slade-Wallace) pattern, I reckon. Though I must confess I have trouble telling it apart from the 1871(?) and 1882 Valise equipment that preceded it.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/SladeWallace.jpg)
Came in black or buff (which was often whitened with Blanco - I think the example above is a modern repro set made from white leather rather than blancoed buff leather, though). I believe I've seen brown (like a shoe leather kind of colour) versions too, but I may be mixing that up with the 1914 leather equipment, which again looks quite similar to me.
-
Not forgetting black for the KRRC. ;)
-
Not forgetting? I didn't forget that. ;)
Came in black or buff...
KAR had black Slade-Wallace too, pre-war.
-
That will teach me to read properly. :)
I've no real idea, but I suspect that they would all come from the supplier in the buff and the recruit's first task would be to apply the relevant colour as part of the 'bull, blanco and brasso' system.
Going back to the OP though, it would depend upon how rigidly the rules were applied. If your RSM or Colonel was a martinet, he'd insist that the regulations were for white (or black etc) equipment and woe betide any man who did different. A more practical commander might be a bit less stiff on campaign, but even as late as the 2nd Boer War, the outline of a soldier's equipment provided a convenient aiming point.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-iV4hvdt_hxE/TvRl-XHu10I/AAAAAAAAG20/YGNdkOhROjk/s340/boer_war_340x255.jpg)
These men were photographed in Cardigan on their return from South Africa in 1902. Their equipment is white, but use has worn it back to the buff in places of heavy wear. This implies that regular blancoing had stopped, but there appears to be no effort made to 'camouflage' the equipment.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-dxEkrBjR0WI/TvRn8iTfIQI/AAAAAAAAG3A/jQsSM9CDO60/s450/ladysmith.jpg)
Whether they are wearing worn-white, or 'tea-dyed' equipment, this Maxim crew's equipment is clearly much lighter than their uniform, which itself was much lighter than the later 'khaki' in general use (as in the photo above).
Bearing in mind that all the photographic evidence shows lighter equipment, or darker if it's brown or black, and the original picture is an 'artists impression', then the reason why most people paint their equipment white or off-white is because it was.
:)
-
Yes, that is certainly true for the white equipment, which started out buff. I don't know about the black though, that may actually have been black leather. Not sure.
-
I'd doubt it, but it's possible. Thinking logically it would make sense to have it all buff, which would ease construction and supply. That was the case with the later '08 and '38 webbing at least, it came in one colour and it was up to the squaddie to make it the colour it was supposed to be, which in the case of those regiments which wore black, meant boot polish was used. As kit was re-issued over and over, you might even get a white belt which had to be made black. As soldiers had to pay for cleaning materials out of their own pocket, providing 'one finish suits all' would be quite a saving for the MoD.
Like I said, I've no real idea, but as it's the British government we are talking about, my money's on them saving a few pence by issuing them 'unfinished'.
;)
-
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-iV4hvdt_hxE/TvRl-XHu10I/AAAAAAAAG20/YGNdkOhROjk/s340/boer_war_340x255.jpg)
Not to hijack my own thread (though I now, of course, proceed to do just that) but how did that guy on the right manage to get/stay fat during that conflict? Quartermaster? Come to think of it, the guy on the left could use a few hours on stairmaster as well... :o
-
I couldn't really say, but a possibility is sustained blockhouse duty with nothing but tins of bully beef and a pack of cards to hold back the monotony. I don't know which regiment they belong to, but I'm guessing they are reservists or Territorials. Who knows, the guy on the right might have lost some weight while he was out there.
:)