Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Weird Wars => Topic started by: Monster on 27 January 2012, 04:15:03 PM
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Hi folks, first post after lurking here for a while. I was wondering: what have you folks done to put the weird into your British forces?
I'm starting a WWW2 28mm skirmish game with a few friends soon and have decided to do a British force. I've got some BAM commandos on order and I've started reading Nuts! to learn the rules. In the next week or two we'll probably spend an evening in the pub and re-write history to suit our gaming needs. However, although I know the general history of the WW2 I'm not an expert on it and I was wondering if anyone could give me some pointers on creating a weird but period appropriate force. Any advice on figures, adaptations of the NUTs! rules or anything else would be very helpful.
I do have a couple of ideas already. First of all, a group of boffins with experimental radio controlled tankettes. Boffins with rather unpredictable bits of technology in general seems like quite a good fit for the British. Another possibility is using Hasslefree Kindred as fey (or even just as hobbits) who have joined up in to defend the sceptred isle. I'm not sure if they look too First World War,but rules-wise I imagine they could just get some sort of stealth bonus.
Finally a specific question: which British walkers look most plausible in the opinion of the good LAFers?
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Spring-loaded anti-tank guns.
Witches leaking naval secrets.
Lord Lovat.
Bouncing Bombs.
Fighter-bombers made of wood.
Orde Wingate.
Floating harbours.
You don't need to do anything to make the British weird!
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You don't need to do anything to make the British weird!
No kidding. They are a strange (though lovable) people.
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the dust tactics walkers i think suit both british and american www2 forces (the british could have some added rivets or something like the older pattern tanks(lee.....) and a little less stowage,a more british paint scheme and a british mg instead of an american/british commander) but they could work with out any modifications.
also you could add some em2 armed commandoes for some more wierd stuff.
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@Steve F: I shall have to go and look up the witches leaking naval secrets and Orde Wingate as I haven't the foggiest what you're talking about!
@Erik B: Yes, it's all part of our charm. ;)
@Raxxus: Thanks for your thoughts on the mechs, the Dust Tactics ones are very pretty. EM-2s are a good idea - I'd never heard of them before seeing the thread on this forum... In 28mm I think SA-80s should be a viable conversion.
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@Steve F: I shall have to go and look up the witches leaking naval secrets and Orde Wingate as I haven't the foggiest what you're talking about!
For the former, look under Helen Duncan, aka "Hellish Nell", the last person to be prosecuted under the Witchcraft Act 1735.
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Howdy! Gears & Guts has some Weirdness for the British (and the Italians) coming later this year. The British Cavalier combat walker from Gear Krieg is getting the 1/56th scale treatment with a modified Early hull and turret, weapons, as well as legs. Here's some prototype shots:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/EasyEight_photos/cavalierIII.png)
Cavalier Mk III
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/EasyEight_photos/cav_1.jpg)
Cavalier MkIII with twin MGs
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/EasyEight_photos/CAV_3.jpg)
Cavalier variants - MGs and Flamethrower
John Bell (aka the creator of Archie's Tenners, the British-focused Gear Krieg action strip in Aurora Magazine: http://dp9forum.com/aurora/) has been doing a fantastic job with blueprints and artwork, so this is going to be a very British-feeling combat walker. For example, optional weapons include the Blacker Bombard spigot mortar, 2lb gun, twin MGs, flamethrower, and twin Hispano AA guns.
Cheers!
John
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Gears-Guts/229252220422916
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@Steve F: Just looked up Hellish Nell - perhaps I'll have to get some witches for my force!
@SBMiniatureGuy: Very cool! When do you think it will be available?
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Mildly Eccentric WW2 doesn't have quite the same ring does it?
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Mad Jack is pretty British and weird!
http://www.weirdwwii.com/2012/01/john-mad-jack-churchill.html
Nothing more British then a long bow, claymore and bag-pipe toting killing machine,
Brian
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@Steve F: Just looked up Hellish Nell - perhaps I'll have to get some witches for my force!
@SBMiniatureGuy: Very cool! When do you think it will be available?
We have the ShiKi Japanese walker up next, and then the Cavalier -- so first half this year.
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also just noticed something i would call wierd http://www.warlordgames.com/16675/new-bolt-action-tulip-rocket/ (http://www.warlordgames.com/16675/new-bolt-action-tulip-rocket/)
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Mildly Eccentric WW2 doesn't have quite the same ring does it?
Perhaps not, but is building an aircraft carrier out of an artificial iceberg just "mildly eccentric"? It makes a rocket base inside a dormant volcano seem sensible.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habakkuk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habakkuk), in case you're wondering.)
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My Brits can call upon Union Jack and The Doctor for aid, but there's plenty more:
There were several Sherlock Holmes films set in WWII (and made during it)
The later (and much worse) League of Extraordinary Gentlemen books cover the League's activities in WWII
World of Darkness roleplaying books cover history pretty well, London By Night or Rage Across Europe would be worth a look
V for Vendetta is not WWII strictly speaking, but the Fascist overtones are helpful.
The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe is set in WWII, just sayin'
hope that helps
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What makes things quintessentially British is the consumption of tea. What would make that weird would be if the tea was herbal.
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Don't forget Bedknobs and Broomsticks...
(http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/6600000/Bedknobs-Broomsticks-bedknobs-and-broomsticks-6684029-853-480.jpg)
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Don't overlook AE-WW II's combat-ready Druid mini and Green Man.
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A chap could certainly do a mildly eccentric British force for laughs if he was so inclined.. ;)
@SB Miniatures guy: Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for it.
@Weird War 2: Good point! He even recorded a kill with the longbow. :o
@Raxxus: Thanks, I'll have to keep that in mind for my vehicles.
@Steve F: And apparently Project Habakkuk could have worked! It's well beyond my modelling skills though - unless I make part of it as a terrain piece.
@Hat Guy: Thanks for the suggestions, I'll have to have a look at them. Doctor Who and Union Jack could be fun. I've never been a big comic book person but I might make time for Jack.
@leonmallett: Those are two nice figures! It took me a while to find them as Darkson Designs website only lists nine or ten figures and they aren't there. Happily they're still available on ebay and elsewhere. Thanks!
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Another crazy idea is building a mole tank!
You can see some I did in 15mm:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=22004.0 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=22004.0)
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What makes things quintessentially British is the consumption of tea. What would make that weird would be if the tea was herbal.
That wouldn't be weird, it would be WRONG. :)
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Don't forget Bedknobs and Broomsticks...
(http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/6600000/Bedknobs-Broomsticks-bedknobs-and-broomsticks-6684029-853-480.jpg)
Yarp with animated suits of armour a classic
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King Arthur returning to help britain in our hour of need always appealed too, think the ghost types in LOTR return of the king
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@Jakar Nilson: That's a really good idea. In fact I think I know the perfect model from Ramshackle Games (http://shop.ramshacklegames.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=39&products_id=337)!
@Lowtardog: WWW2 would certainly fit the bill as our hour of need. Perhaps the Knights could be summoned by a druid or something. I wonder if I can create a WWW2 King Arthur from Warlord plastics and my bits box... ;D
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Don't forget the old WW1 legends, inspired by the tales of Arthur Machen like the Bowmen of Mons, where ghostly bowmen or an angelic figure materialise to defend the British in their hour of need.
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King Arthur returning to help britain in our hour of need always appealed too, think the ghost types in LOTR return of the king
I've made weeks ago a squad of King Arthur and the Knigths of the Round Table for Secrets of the Third Reich. I hope in a few days I can upload some photos.
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@jp1885: Thanks, I'd never heard of the Arthur Machen stories before. Ghostly bowmen and angels are an interesting idea for a unit.
@rigel: Awesome! I'd love to see some pictures of what you've done. What kind of models did you use?
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@Monster: I used a Helldorado Knight (a mercenary called "André de Montbard"), and 5 Space Marines bodies, to make the British Steel troops of Secrets of the Third Reich. I'm working on the photographs, as soon as posible I'll put a link to an album.
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@Rigel: Just googled André de Montbard - superb figure! I'm looking forward to the pics.. :)
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Going to echo the suggestions for some witches and trypically-english fey countryside folk. They're a very British trope and you can do so much with them. They can be used for effects outside of individual battles (things like spying or intelligence leaks, which are more relevant in a campaign situation), broad effects on the battlefield (weather or terrain effects or gremlin-like sabotage on opponent's materiel), or they can even participate directly in combat.
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I've got yet the photos of Arthur Pendragon and the Weird Knights of the Round Table lol...
I hope can give you some ideas for weird british.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2GMENK9fcF8/Ty64uVHlFLI/AAAAAAAAAJA/kHOhb5IWHHI/s1600/Arturo+y+Caballeros.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VOeArXVfMVg/Ty61GspeFRI/AAAAAAAAAIw/qaA8qDedlCg/s1600/Arturo+Pendragon.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3J2QYEjc3WA/Ty62geY5dxI/AAAAAAAAAI4/cnK3mJxiw8o/s1600/Caballeros.jpg)
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Dont forget Morris Dancer's and Pantomime horses ;)
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What a splendid group of models, Rigel.
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@ Rigel
Great idea, especially the use of the Hell Dorado Miniature. Might as well work for the weird war spaniards as a templar.
But for the troopers, i´d look after the warzone trenchers, as they even look more british.
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@FramFramson: Interesting ideas! We're still experimenting with Nuts! as a ruleset but we're bound to have some sort of campaign system. I think I'm definitely going to include some sort of witch alongside my forces.
@Rigel: Fantastic figures! Arthur looks great but I really like what you've done with the space marine bodies. I think I might copy the idea if you don't mind. I've got a few marines lying around.
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Than you for the comments about the knigths.
@Monster: Please, feel free to copy the idea, it's an honour.
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Cracking unit there Rigel!
A few more random thoughts... How about a druid type chap, summoning ancient celtic magic in defence of the realm? Or something more sinister - a Wickerman kind of vibe?
Don't forget that back in those days we still had an empire, so there are loads of exotic myths and legends to draw from (multi-armed goddesses from the Indian Raj, African witchdoctors, Canadian Wendigos etc. etc.)
I'll let you into a secret - if I ever started a miniatures company, I'd love to produce a unit of Zulu warriors, partially clad in British battledress, ready to fight for the King...
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NOW then. Now then. Then now. Now then... :-[
What's going on here?
Firstly, I think you'll find that being in the middle of the map at the top, where God put us, makes the British normal.
Its the rest of the world that is wierd.
And, since we decided to stop running it for a while, that world has become increasingly wierd of late...
:D
Hehe...
How to make the British wierd eh?
Well, i think you'l struggle to top the reality of the British war effort, what with Barnes Wallace and Maj Gen Percy Hobart on our team.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobart's_Funnies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobart's_Funnies)
:D
However, i'll echo and recap the excellent suggestions made so far.
The Once and Future King (Arthur Pendragon) is certainly a way to go really wierd...especially if rules-wise he 'inspires' the British troops to put down their SMLEs and pick up a longsword for a glorious mounted charge...
Our climate is 'foggy, raw and dull' (according to the French in Shakespeare's Henry V) and is definately a supernatural mine of wierdness. Mist-revenants, trolls under bridges, Cornish giants, witches and wise-folk, brownies, sprites and assorted forest spirits (including the elf-kind of the Seelie and Unseelie court) are all possible allies that could be brought forwards.
Technologically speaking...well...i refer the honourable gentleman to Hobart's Funnies...Also a browse through the world of Heath Robinson is highly reccomended.
In general, British technology, and our relationship to it is at best by casual acquaintance. A walking tank is all very well, but nothing beats 'a bayonet with some guts behind it'.
Rules?
Well, the teabreak is vital. British troops should be able to call a tea break that restores their morale, and stops the fighting for a while (foreign types can spend the time doing whatever it is they do when they should be supping a mug of hot milky tea (digestive biscuit optional)).
Stiff upper lip. The British unwillingness to look facts in the face, or to admit defeat; and their ability to disregard, denigrate and generally feel superior too and sorry for foreigners should definately give them the ability to shrug off panic, worry, morale failure and in many cases bullets.
Getting stuck in. One thing the British do well is 'get stuck in' to problems. Don't get me wrong, we think things through beforehand - usually to an illogical conclusion....but nothing beats getting stuck in for actually achieving things. How else do you think we built an Empire? British units should be able to act where others couldn't (during suppression for example). Of course, this capacity to act is somewhat compromised when we're 'getting stuck in' to a teabreak.
Cricket. The sport of Empire, and the ultimate test of colonial manners...(some of them are dashed rude).
Also a cracking good chance for a 'gentleman' to show his worth in the face of profession 'players', proving once and for all that breeding, good manners and an amateur expectation of superiority will always beat skill and competence. Of course being a jolly good chap at the crease is also handy for knocking grenades for six...
The mad minute. British naval and army fire discipline has always favoured 'rapid, accurate fire'; a doctrine that led to the sinking of HMS Hood, and to the Old Contemptibles of WWI giving the Germans the impression they were facing machinguns.
Being ammunition-hungry, this rapid fire in the army was restricted to 'the mad minute'. See...thinking it through and getting stuck in...
This desire to conserve ammo is why the MOD refused to issue our chaps with assault rifles until 1985...(41 years after pretty much everyone else)...
So, the British should have a ratherwierd capacity to lay down machinegun fire with anything at hand (bolt action rifles, pistols, longbows, thrown stones, etc.)
Ooh...longbows!!!
Yeah, got to have something wierd to do with longbows...
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The MOD, or rather the War Department as it was then, would have issued an assault rifle in 1951 had it not been for Churchill kowtowing to the Yanks and hoping they would pick up a NATO standard rifle in 7.62mm. They did pick up 7.62.mm, selected their own rather indifferent rifle and then promptly dropped it and chose the M16 seven years after selecting the M-14, thus invalidating the whole exercise. Actually the EM-2 was given limited issue as early as 1951 but ultimately wasn't adopted.
As it happens, the SLR, the rifle Britain did adopt in the late 'fifties was a bloody good bit of kit. Robust, accurate and largely soldier proof. The idea that you could really clobber someone with the butt or poke them with a sharp object attached to the front of it was quite comforting in an odd atavistic way.
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I don't think the author Ian Tregillis has been mentioned in this thread yet (although there is one reference on the forum to him)? His novel Bitter Seeds has British magicians warring against German psychics/superhumans in a sort of a turnabout on the old "Nazis iz teh Okkults" plotline. That might give some ideas although probably nothing that hasn't been mentioned yet (e.g. witches, druids).
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His novel Bitter Seeds has British magicians warring against German psychics/superhumans
Speaking of British magicians... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasper_Maskelyne
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Well, yes, if Mr. Maskelyne had been a real "English Practical Magician" (see Susanna Clarke's Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell, which touches upon the subject of "weird Napoleonic wars" and thus could well serve as an inspirational source) then I'm sure his war efforts wouldn't have been so open to question as to their efficency :P
There is another (young adult) book the name of which, as well as that of its author, escapes me as it did yesterday... What I recall is that in it, Brits went to a WWWI with Germans who were utilizing supertechnology in the form of mecha tanks using a supertechnology of their own: that of genetic engineering. Apparently much more enamoured by Darwin than in the real world, they had geneered "dirigible beasts" and the like. Using that idea would at the very least make the British to stand out on the battlefield.
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In general, British technology, and our relationship to it is at best by casual acquaintance. A walking tank is all very well, but nothing beats 'a bayonet with some guts behind it'.
If there's one thing I've learned about British Engineering it's that a proper British Engineer will never use one part when four will do. lol
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Well indeed...and its come down to us in the modern world today.
I personally have never constructed a piece of flat pack furniture without at least two pieces of wood and a handful of nuts and bolts left over.
I presume these are spares throughtfully included by the Scandinavian manufacturer.
This is after all the Scandinavians fault in the first place as Lego supplanted the far superior and generally impressively British Meccano (the instructions of which were often deliberately wrong to train our young engineers properly from the cradle)...
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I suggest you have a look at the various stuff the Very British Civil War folk have been up to for some time. Taking quintessential Britishness and bending it to a martial end! Eccentricities abound!
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Well, yes, if Mr. Maskelyne had been a real "English Practical Magician" (see Susanna Clarke's Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell, which touches upon the subject of "weird Napoleonic wars" and thus could well serve as an inspirational source) then I'm sure his war efforts wouldn't have been so open to question as to their efficency :P
There is another (young adult) book the name of which, as well as that of its author, escapes me as it did yesterday... What I recall is that in it, Brits went to a WWWI with Germans who were utilizing supertechnology in the form of mecha tanks using a supertechnology of their own: that of genetic engineering. Apparently much more enamoured by Darwin than in the real world, they had geneered "dirigible beasts" and the like. Using that idea would at the very least make the British to stand out on the battlefield.
That's Leviathan! It was an awesome book, although the plot, being designed for young teens, was a bit bland for my tastes.
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That's Leviathan!
Quite, thx! Written by Scott Westerfeld.
http://boingboing.net/2009/10/06/scott-westerfelds-le.html
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For me Daleks fit almost entirely 'seriously' within the setting thanks to that excellent Dr Who episode.
British do boffins well, but also are very good for gritty Dog Soldiers type scenarios.
If I were to do 'serious' Weird War British they would be supernatural or anti-supernatural and character based. Priests with anti-supernatural abilities, an unusually lucky private or one with premonitions, hedge wizards or druid, or 'talents' organised under the SOE or similar organisation. Underdogs on patrol, pitted against the horrors of German supernatural engineering, or sent into the flames of Caen to stop the Nazis' own team of talents (similar to the Godlike RPG, more specifically the background comic series published in Dungeon/ Polyhedron and sadly nowhere else).
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As a sidenote, Ian Tregillis' Bitter Seeds is now available in USAnian softcover (by Tor), the Brits'll have to wait 'till July until Orbit gets theirs out (with a better cover):
http://www.orbitbooks.net/2012/05/02/cover-launch-bitter-seeds-by-ian-tregillis/
Both versions should contain a bonus short story What Doctor Gottlieb Saw.