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Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: isaanmini on 05 February 2012, 08:24:37 PM

Title: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: isaanmini on 05 February 2012, 08:24:37 PM: Hello everyone........some help please

for a new project I need some of the above..........pretty,but fairly detailed maps of Britain and northern europe ........and some nice relaxing (Gregorian ? ) chant.

any ideas or recomendations ?

thanks
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: Malamute on 05 February 2012, 08:46:28 PM: Gregorian chant CD's were fashionable back in the 1990s (?) if I recall? I am sure HMV or Amazon will have some. I expect you could pick one up for under a fiver.
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: isaanmini on 05 February 2012, 09:14:14 PM: Thanks
yes thats the sort of thing.........I have looked on Amazon........I guess you cant go wrong for a fiver or so.......
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: Mason on 05 February 2012, 09:17:17 PM: Quote from: Malamute on 05 February 2012, 08:46:28 PM
Gregorian chant CD's were fashionable back in the 1990s (?) if I recall?

:o :o :o

Worrying!
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: Mister Rab on 05 February 2012, 09:22:47 PM: Not necessarily my 'go-to' music for driving to, say, but Gregorian chant can be utterly sublime.
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: Mason on 05 February 2012, 09:32:19 PM: Quote from: Mister Rab on 05 February 2012, 09:22:47 PM
Not necessarily my 'go-to' music for driving to, say, but Gregorian chant can be utterly sublime.

I quite agree.
It was the 'fashionable' bit that tickled me!
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: Mister Rab on 05 February 2012, 09:36:06 PM: Oh right - yeah, missed that bit! lol
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: isaanmini on 05 February 2012, 09:36:48 PM: The sort of thing you can sit and paint monks to............like I said relaxing.........then your vikings can chop the monks to pieces and steal their Cd players
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: janner on 06 February 2012, 08:54:45 AM: Those CDs are also very good for keeping the birds off the vegetable patch...

What do you mean by Dark Ages - Charlomagne or 1066 and all that? Few detailed maps have survived even from the High Middle Ages - most historians accept that you have to work with later ones on the basis that the road system was unlikely to have changed massively. The consequences of the Enclosure Act helps for maps of England, but for the early medieval period then the Roman road system/population distribution is a good starting point.
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: Malamute on 06 February 2012, 09:15:02 AM: Quote from: Mason on 05 February 2012, 09:32:19 PM
I quite agree.
It was the 'fashionable' bit that tickled me!

You were clearly not on trend during the 1990's ;) lol
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: Ming on 06 February 2012, 09:22:39 AM: Cant help with the music mate, but here in the UK, Ordnance Survey did maps of Dark Age, Roman and, Ancient Britain. I am sure the last two are still in print but the the Dark Age maps pop up on E-bay now & then. Might be worth checking out.
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: janner on 06 February 2012, 10:04:13 AM: Amazon is also worth a try for second hand copies, but beware. They actually map known locations of 'Dark Age' sites (approximately 410 A.D. to 870 A.D.) based on data from 1935-8 and our understanding of these sites has changed considerably in the last three quarters of a century. This may be why they are out of print. The Roman and Ancient maps have been re-edited, however.
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: Blackwolf on 06 February 2012, 11:19:40 AM: Sequentia has done some very good music,for instance English Songs of the Middle Ages; have a listen to some of their secular music too,brilliant!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFVxYjglsZg
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: oxiana on 06 February 2012, 01:05:07 PM: Quote from: Malamute on 06 February 2012, 09:15:02 AM
You were clearly not on trend during the 1990's ;) lol

Malamute is always ahead of the fashion curve. You should have seen his karaoke Lady Gaga act a couple of years back...

;D
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: Malamute on 06 February 2012, 01:56:57 PM: Quote from: oxiana on 06 February 2012, 01:05:07 PM
Malamute is always ahead of the fashion curve. You should have seen his karaoke Lady Gaga act a couple of years back...

;D

lol

It was legendary :D
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: isaanmini on 06 February 2012, 10:22:20 PM: Thanks for all the "helpfull" comments guys lol
Today I picked up a double Cd called Canto Gregoriano.........which I am sure will give me all the relaxing chanting that I can stand !......er... enjoy!

Re the maps....I guess I am looking for something that can be used for a simple campaign ........

The Dark ages I am thinking about are from Arthurian,Romano Brits to Saxons and Vikings..............I know there are several sets of Dark Age rules either being released or in the planning and I want to translate table top games into a campaign
I have been following the Posts on "Roundwoods World" and I like some of the ideas there
I have googled DA maps and I am sure there is plenty that I can use, really I just need a background of terrain,forrests rivers,towns and settlements to manouver over and conquer

Barry
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: Red Orc on 06 February 2012, 11:23:16 PM: OK; if what you're looking for is modern countrywide maps of the locations of Dark Age sites, then the OS 'Ancient Britain' map is what you want. Not only does it give you Saxon-period and Viking sites (for things that are 'current') it also lists Roman sites (for ruins or re-fortified ... forts) as well as Iron Age, Bronze Age and Neolithic sites, for ancient and magical places of power for all the pagans still running around. However, they overlay the locations on a modern map, and the scale is pretty small, so it's difficult to get a handle on local topography unless you can get a much higher-scale local map.

What sort of scale are you looking at? Is this for a 'campaign map' of who controls what provinces and towns etc in Britain? Or is it based in a particular area?

EDIT: re-reading the whole thread I see you want a massive Northern Europe type map for a campaign based on provinces. Sorry, hadn't really twigged.
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: isaanmini on 07 February 2012, 02:44:32 PM: Hi......
While searching the internet re the dark age maps, I came across what appears to be a complete dark age campaign system called Saxon Shore......by David Kershaw and David Harrrington...................
I havent studied it fully yet, But it would appear to be a map based campaign system.
I will do a seperate post to see if anyone has more knowledge of it or has played it and can give any more info.
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: white knight on 08 February 2012, 04:52:56 PM: Did noone suggest "Era" yet (not to be confused with Enya)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGZ9mYVV5s0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGZ9mYVV5s0)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkZkekS8NQU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkZkekS8NQU)
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: isaanmini on 09 February 2012, 09:53:41 AM: Ah yes
remember this from Classic fm tv
thanks ............and Enya too
thanks
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: Mason on 09 February 2012, 10:23:08 AM: Quote from: Malamute on 06 February 2012, 09:15:02 AM
You were clearly not on trend during the 1990's ;) lol

Obviously that is still the case, as it has taken me three days to notice this!

I will try to address my tardiness, Mr Gaga! ;)

isaanmini; Sorry for derailing again. ::)
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: Malamute on 09 February 2012, 10:58:52 AM: Quote from: Mason on 09 February 2012, 10:23:08 AM
Obviously that is still the case, as it has taken me three days to notice this!

I will try to address my tardiness, Mr Gaga! ;)

lol

Ra, Ra, Ooh La la... a bad romance! :D

And yes apologies for derailing the thread, back to Gregorian chants... ;)
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: isaanmini on 10 February 2012, 10:19:43 AM: No problem guys

The music is now officially sorted.....I can sit and sculpt or read, with some nice relaxing background music

The next job is to sort out the maps........Dark Age Britain and possibly the coast of Northern Europe
I have been given a few suggestions which I will look into...........

How about a boxed game....maps and rules in one ?
Any thoughts ?
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: isaanmini on 12 February 2012, 11:27:07 AM: Well ,it looks like the suggestions about the ordnance survey maps were spot on ......thanks
If I were any good with computers I would now post a link to a blogsite called...Roundwoods world...........where Sid has just posted a link to the very D/A maps I have been asking about
ps.Its a great site and it is very interesting to follow the guys development of their own D/A rules......a set I will be acquiring as soon as they are published
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: Mister Rab on 12 February 2012, 03:47:23 PM: Here you go: link to Roundwood's World (http://sidneyroundwood.blogspot.com/)
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: Andrew May on 13 February 2012, 01:49:17 PM: A bit late to the party but you can't beat this for your music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX2y51ixsu8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: NurgleHH on 13 February 2012, 03:43:29 PM: I wonder, if gregorian chants are really ok. It is more "eastern" music and a later period than the dark ages. Maybe you should look for these medieval market music. They are really popular in germany. Some titles are "Trobadors! Trouveres! Minnesänger! - Lieder & Tänze des Mittelalters" or "Mittelalter und Renaissance".
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: white knight on 13 February 2012, 04:12:12 PM: I could be wrong, but I assumed the aim is less historical accuracy, but rather the feel and atmosphere we associate with medieval times (largely influenced by movies). :)
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: HerbyF on 13 February 2012, 05:52:41 PM: There are a couple of Gregorian Chant festivals held in Europe. I have a couple CD collections from them. You should be able to find them for sale online. I think they produce new ones annually.
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: NurgleHH on 13 February 2012, 09:32:20 PM: Maybe you Should Take Soundtracks like Braveheart, Name of the Rose, Gladiator and Arthur.
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: isaanmini on 15 February 2012, 12:43:54 PM: Hi guys
more info to take a look at when I have time..............not sure about loads of drunken Germanic market traders belting out the hits of the day, but there you go....might be worth a listen
Yes its more the sedate atmospherics I am interested in ,hence the chants, but I am starting to get interested in finding this other stuff now

God help me

another Tangent............seem to remember something about a Dark Ages film that had a date for a title, and a bunch of Hairy guys (vikings ?) in the publicity shot that I saw

Any ideas........wow I love this place..........

cheers
Barry
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: Arlequín on 16 February 2012, 12:20:38 AM: Not the one you're after but if you want a good Dark Ages film 13th Warrior (1999) is about the best I've seen. No marks for historical accuracy, but I rate it. You can usually pick it up quite cheap.
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: isaanmini on 20 February 2012, 10:05:54 AM: I am not sure how usefull it will be .but I was in a bookshop in Bournemouth the other day and I noticed some rolled OD maps (poster style)......I enquired and was told that they had some stock of a Roman Britain map........1/1.000.000

I have ordered one and while I am not sure if it is exactly the same as the one mentioned By Sid and one or two others it sounds very usefull
I wont be collecting it for a few weeks but I will let you know more when I can compare it with Sids post
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: Arlequín on 20 February 2012, 01:33:20 PM: The only drawback with the OS Roman Britain map is that it only shows Roman sites. While the 'tribal capitals' (Civitates) will be featured, other tribal settlements won't. For the most part the Roman settlements were gradually abandoned, or reduced in size, over the course of the 5th Century. Obviously mileage varies as to area and site and I'm not aware of a map that shows post-Roman Britain. You might be better making your own from a blank topographical map of the UK to suit your needs.

I've been using this one; http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/Topographic_Map_of_the_UK_-_Blank.png

I can't remember if OS do an Anglo-Saxon one, but it actually might be of more use than the Roman one.
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: Red Orc on 20 February 2012, 02:17:27 PM: The 'Ancient Britain' map shows Neolithic, Bronze Age, Iron Age, selected Roman, and Post-Roman (Anglo-Saxon, Viking, British, Scottish and Pictish, before 1066?) sites.

However, I think these are only sites that can be visited. Not every known site is on the map by any means.

I was recommending it to Isaanmini on the grounds that, apart from showing the 'current' sites (AD400-1000), all those other things were still there - the Roman towns and forts (some occupied, some not) were still a presence in the landscape, they could have warbands using them as bases; the hillforts of the Iron Age were sometimes re-fortified in the post-Roman period, especially in the west; the Bronze Age and Neolithic barrows and henges were the focus for new burials, church-building, pagan revival cults and who knows what? 'Wodensbarrow' didn't build itself you know (nor did Woden build it)!
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: Arlequín on 20 February 2012, 08:17:31 PM: No you're quite right, older sites had their uses and indeed there was continuous occupation from the Bronze Age to the present day in a lot of places. The map you've described sounds like the one I vaguely remember as existing.

My only criticism of it would be, as you say, that not everything is listed. This creates a bit of an imbalance in some places, which look positively un-populated. There's no easy solution to this problem though.
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: Red Orc on 21 February 2012, 09:24:56 PM: Quote from: Arlequín on 20 February 2012, 08:17:31 PM
...

My only criticism of it would be, as you say, that not everything is listed. This creates a bit of an imbalance in some places, which look positively un-populated. There's no easy solution to this problem though.

Extensive local fieldwork is the only way. When I was doing my Arthurian RPG campaign I'd take sections of the map, blow them up, compare them with the Roman map to get roads and any missing Roman sites in the region, then start consulting history books to find anything Iron Age or post-Roman that I'd missed.

All of this I considered to be 'fun', however, so that's alright!
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: Arlequín on 21 February 2012, 09:42:43 PM: For a moment I thought you were about to suggest we go out and dig up some the blank areas on the map. lol
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: Funghy-Fipps on 22 February 2012, 01:06:27 PM: Sorry to come late to the fray (as it were), but viz. the medieval music may I suggest Medieval Steel? The latest research suggests that this is what the French knights listened to before they went off at Crécy, Poitiers and Agincourt. Whether it made them frenzied or suicidal is not certain, but effect was that they rode breakneck for the English lines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q9Vzjefnik

For those who cannot stomach sitting through such unadulterated manliness, may I suggest skipping to 4:09, a moment that cuts straight to the very essence of what this song is about (that is, leather and very tight codpieces).
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: Vinlander on 23 February 2012, 01:49:21 PM: Of course, historians are still divided as to when exactly the 'Chansons du Geste' went out of fashion for the up and coming chevalier and were replaced by ' Ye Cocke Rocke'...

lol
Title: Re: Medieval church "music" and Dark age maps
Post by: Momotaro on 26 February 2012, 07:16:58 PM: Naxos sells a CD of medieval carols (called, Medieval Carols funnily enough), which is only about a fiver.

Of course, it includes Gaudete , which may be too firmly linked in your mind with Alan Partridge... lol