Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: Rhoderic on 11 January 2008, 10:27:57 PM
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I know I've broached this topic before, but I'm still curious. Looking at the miniatures that get displayed here, I often wonder how many levels of highlights it took to produce, if any "shortcuts" were used, and so on. I don't think I'm the only one to be wondering about these things, and indeed, often a painter will explain the painting process as he shows off the miniature, which I find very helpful. But I'd like to see this information gathered in one thread, just to compare effort with quality.
I'm not trying to start a pissing contest here (that's what the Lead Painter's League is for :wink: ) and we all know who the "better" painters are, anyway. Let me get the ball rolling:
I block out the main colours over a white gesso undercoat (my living arrangements make spray-painting difficult), then wash with ink (separate inks for different colours, as opposed to one shade over the whole figure) and drybrush on one level of highlights. I just find "normal" highlights too time-consuming, and I think drybrushing is underrated by a lot of people. Next I paint the smaller details such as belts and paint on one level of highlights over these. My definition of "smaller details" is anything that's too small to drybrush without making a mess of the whole miniature. Metallics simply get one layer of metallic paint over a black basecoat, and a black ink wash for shading, unless there's nothing to shade and I want it to stay shiny (like with sword blades) in which case I forgo the ink. Eyes get painted white with a black ink wash, no irises/pupils. A "decent" end result looks like this:
(http://displacedminiatures.com/images/img.1168633441290.jpg)
I'm still getting the hang of photography and colour adjustments. Frankly I think the figure suffers a bit from being photographed too close-up and having a bad background.
By the way, consistency is very important to me. The painting process described above is like a "template" I need to be able to apply on every part of every miniature I paint. I falter whenever I run into something that doesn't fit with this process and often end up having to re-define the whole template. I'm not a "shoot from the hip" kind of painter.
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so do you want full WIPs or do we just show and example of a normal table top miniature and explain what we did?
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My standard procedure:
* scrape/file/brush/sand the mould lines of the mini
* wash 'n brush the mould release and dirt of them mini, let dry (I have a home made easy-bake oven for this if I am in a hurry)
* cut off pre-moulded base tabs or bases
* fit it on an appropriate washer with the method appropriate for the model (this can be time consuming)
* texture the base coating ( sculpted epoxy putty, pumice gel, sand or what have you)
* enamel base colour, for adventure gaming minis this means humbrol matt black out of a jar or GW spray can
* next all metallics, if not too small
* I don't do NMM much
*paint the base appropriately (no flocking but base colour with basic hiliting)
* skin: basic caucasian is done with IW Felsh, next a dilluteds Vallejo Burnt Umbre Air with flow release wash, next a new layer of IW Flesh, next Reaper Caucasian for mid hilites, next Reaper Fair Maiden for hi-hilites.
*i do not do washes except for skin, fur and certain yellows
* never less than five layers except for black
* the lighter the colour the more shades/layers; white and tans are bastards to get really good
* the larger the min the more layers use
*I follow the principle of scale distance so no eye whites and irises on my minis. I however often appply a finaly touch of of dark umbre to the eye slits.
*one or more thourough spray on hard coats (unless brush on is called for) and then when dry on two acrylic brush on matte coats
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so do you want full WIPs or do we just show and example of a normal table top miniature and explain what we did?
Whatever you feel like writing without exerting yourself. I didn't mean for this to be a "survey" for my own benefit or anything, just a free-flowing discussion like any other in this forum.
BTW, Ironworker, I loved the WIPs in your recent Pulp/BoB thread. Exactly the kind of thing I was talking about when I said I find this kind of stuff helpful. It has me considering switching from multiple inks for different areas, to one shade of ink for the whole model. Although I'm wondering if any colours give you trouble with this process, such as bright yellow (which is always a bit tricky to shade well).
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I tend to follow the same pattern for everything. I've written at length about it here:
http://www.matakishi.com/paintingthings.htm
To paraphrase:
I undercoat (usually) black by hand.
I paint from the flesh outwards.
I use ink washes for Flesh, Green and Brown but not for other colours.
I underpaint for red and yellow using flesh or grey tones.
Every thing gets two-four highlights, usually three. These are painted on. I often drybrush fur, hair and other richly textured things but not clothing or skin. Chainmail gets a wash rather than a drybrush.
I leave dark lining for definition.
I don't often highlight black. Usually only for weapons.
I use metalics but not on modern weapons which are done with highlighted black.
I finish with basetex and various scatter depending on the setting.
If possible I will group base figures as I prefer this to singles.
I varnish with Dull cote to knock back the ink shine and tie everything together.
Just about every technique is here (only the flesh has been inked):
(http://www.matakishi.com/Tintin%20and%20friends%202%20600.jpg)
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I varnish with Dull cote to knock back the ink shine and tie everything together.
Well put. This is an interesting feature of dull coatin which is evident but not often mentioned.
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I am no talent like most of you but I enjoy painting, so heres my way to paint (aside form some of the games and figures here I trend to paint big armies so painting lots is often the aim :oops: )
I normally paint between 4 and 6 figures at a time if doing units or 2-4 for individuals such as pulp, pirates that sort of geezer
Clean them up, remove any flach and some mold lines (though not the best at this)
REMOVE THE SLOTTA if there is one
Glue to base (normally pennies or tupennies (increases the value you see :mrgreen: )
Use PVA and drizzle home made mix of sand onto base (bird sand, railway ballast and rough builders sand) let dry
Undercoat black with a brush
I then choose my colours and cover the larger areas e.g. coat/jacket/trousers
Wet brush with a lighter shade/highlight
Highlight
Next flesh, normally use Medium flesh for for Caucasions/asians etc
Now my little technique taught to me by a mate, I still havent mastered it yet and sometimes go too heavy: Oil wash on flesh, using Pink brown oil paint and thinnners. Take small dab of oil and put on figure then some thinners (artist low odour as it flashes off quicker) this takes the place of the washes others use and depending on how much or little I use you can create european to indian flesh tones. If you dont like it you have time to remove with thumb or as I do, a cotton bud.
Leave to dry off for 24 hours.
I then paint in the detail, equipment, belts buckles etc and would highlight Only 1 or two to be honest)
I tend to dry brush but will use highlighting if I think it needs it.
White I use an ochre base then worj through a bone white to a white I like dirty whites - thats my excuse :D
Can`t do the dark lining thingy so never do that. What I would use is possibly more oil, often Raw umber on leather and dark colours, Paynes grey on greys and metal and Olive green on White!! yep I know it soulnds weird but I think it works.
With the oil again let to dry and then you can highlight over or tone down until your hearts content.
Basing (I hate and loathe this part and have ssen whole armies painted before I can bare to do the bases, I usually give it a base coat of paint e.g. Earth or a sand and then dry brush - add a bit of static grass and bobs your uncle.
Most figures are singly based for skirmish game though I am starting to multi base for Napoleonics, ECW, Greeks etc for ease of putting the dead away during a game.
I spray varnish using plasticote or GW sprays after a nsty experience with a platoon of waffen SS I brush varnished, only to have them turn white. Not the best I know, can be stin but does the biz for me
So thats what I tend to do. :)
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That's certainly a different approach karl, very interesting and having seen some of your figures close up I can vouch for the effectiveness of the flesh (bit dark for my tastes though, I was going to add a highlight)
(However, I don't really believe a word of it. I have it on good authority that you don't use a basecoat or a varnish :lol: )
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That's certainly a different approach karl, very interesting and having seen some of your figures close up I can vouch for the effectiveness of the flesh (bit dark for my tastes though, I was going to add a highlight)
(However, I don't really believe a word of it. I have it on good authority that you don't use a basecoat or a varnish :lol: )
Did you resolve that with the guy Paul? You Cheeky Monkey :D
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No, I'm out £70.00. He's lying and won't send pics :)
Now, on with the proper discussion...
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No, I'm out £70.00. He's lying and won't send pics :)
Now, on with the proper discussion...
The Barsteward
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I tend to prefer to apply a light drybrush of white or sand or light grey after the wash has dried (and believe me, make sure it has! :lipps: ) - that dulls the wash gloss as well; although I still give the dull varnish coat afterwards.
Recently I exchanged a Christmas voucher for the GW box o' 18 foundation paints, and tried them out on plastic - have to admit they're very opaque, but not thick, and can produce a thin but uniform coat of paint direct on plastic. Haven't tried them out on metals yet.
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Here's what I do!
I now use Acrylic paints and the odd ink wash, I still have fond memories of my Humbrol enamels and still use their dark earth for my base colour.
Undercoat in White with brush.
Then I always start with the head. I find that once I get the face done the figure starts to come alive. Unfortunately I cannot paint more than one figure at a time. So my results are painfully slow. I have often tried to paint in groups of two, three, four of five but I always end up pressing on with one figure.
I use the basic three or four shades approach and very occasionally an ink wash after my first flesh tone then repeat flesh basecoat and then two highlights. I do the hands at the same time.
Next comes hair, beards etc and hats or helmets.
Then I usually work down the figure so jacket next, then trousers, and belts or packs etc. Repeating the three/four stage highlighting.
I use drybrushing for fur or hair or weapons,but mostly paint on the highlights. I don't drybrush clothes.
My final painting is usually the weapons. Basecoat of black, maybe a drybrush of gunmetal then a silver highlight. I have tried black inwashing on things like revolvers which works well, then a highlight of silver.
This is followed by two coats of matt varnish, painted on not sprayed.
I base them on washers, cover with Polyfilla and then PVA with sand and small stones. Thin white underocat then wash on diluted Humbrol dark earth enamel or GW dark earth. Then a drybrush of sand colour then a bleached Linen/white highlight.Some Static grass to finish.
As I only do them one at a time, the turn around time is very slow. Possibly two or three figures maximum per day, and thats if I sit down early in the morning and work through the day. I really hate painting loads of the same figure. Fortunately I like skirmish games with individual figures, so its not a problem for me. Heaven help me though If I ever get into massed battles with Napleonics :lol:
I think I have reached a fair standard. I will never be as good as the Prof or Grimm or a Tom Weiss.
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc80/nickfutter/hunter.jpg)
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Malamute, that's a grand example you've shown us there - it's splendid 8) 8) 8)
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I use a very simple technique that gets fair looking models to the table. Usually I'll do five to ten models at a time.
Clean the model up, flash and mould lines with a knife. Remove the slotty tab if there is one.
Glue to a 2p coin with superglue as a base.
Coat the base in PVA, dip in bird sand.
Spray the whole lot black with Halfords matt black spray.
First thing I paint is a base coat on the base. Usually Earth Brown, but I'd use Grey for Snow or Chocolate Brown for Desert.
Basic colours, one colour at a time on the batch. I usually start with flesh, then clothing, then weapons.
Next I'll retouch all the places I'd messed up. I get the shakes so I'm not so tidy as I used to be.
Next is a wash of thinned down black paint over the whole model. Shading done.
Now I'd do any metallics. For gunmetal I'll use GW Boltgun and wash that with some black ink.
At this point I'll tidy the colour on the base and finish that off with a drybrush, any alternate colour patches or dressings. With brown bases I drybrush with Coffee Brown and usually do one or two patches of Jungle Green, drybrushed with a Mossy Green.
Any models who are wearing mostly black, will get a drybrush of dark blue.
For most Rank and File, that's it.
For characters, I'll do some simple drybrushed highlights.
That's about it. Most of the painting time is taken waiting for the black wash to dry.
After seeing the good results Ironworker gets, I'm tempted to try a dark brown wash instead of black soon.
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I suppose I paint in what is now the 'classic' style. Brush on black gesso primer and then work up from dark to light starting with the face and then the main colour areas - coat, trousers etc and finish with the details. Normally between three and seven shades depending on how smooth I want the transition.
I have been using the Foundry paints for a while, but have started to move over to the P3 colour range which I think has better coverage and the colours have a more natural tone.
Recently I have been playing around with going back to a white primer. I love the finish that washes can give, but still find it a real pain on some of the modern figures with a lot of hard to reach detail.
Pat
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I have been using the Foundry paints for a while, but have started to move over to the P3 colour range which I think has better coverage and the colours have a more natural tone.
Same factory as Foundry and Coat d'Armes (and old GW); I'm hoping to try these myself soon as Foundry are good but very expensive to replace when one runs out.
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1) Clean up flash, mold lines etc.
2) Glue to 1p coin, cutting down integral base a little if necessary to get a fit.
2a) If Renegade figure: Glue to 2p coin, as there is no way in the world to make them fit on a 1p coin.
3) Landscape base with miliput and the little never-ending bag of GW grit that I have been using for ever.
4) Undercoat in white.
4a) Notice how undercoat shows up the fact that I missed most of the mold lines in 1).
4c) Go back to 1)
4d) Undercoat again, replacing the paint that was removed by going back to 1)
5) Paint flesh tones. First the basic colour (which I make up as I go along from other paints), then the shadows, then the highlights and any 5 O'clock shadow is added sometime around now. Flesh work is probably the only stage where I can be bothered to attempt anything resembling blending.
5a) Insides of mouth, teeth, lips, tongues, moustaches, etc.
5b) Paint eyes black.
5c) Add dots of off-white to the eyes.
5d) Separate 3/4 of the unit that I messed up painting the eyes on.
5e) Repaint the eyes on the above-mentioned figures.
5f) Realise that on about half of these that I've made the eyes worse.
5g) Get in a mood.
5h) Repaint the eyes.
5i) And so it goes on...
5j) Keep this up until only one figure in the unit still looks like Marty Feldman.
5k) Agonize over whether to persist with this last fellow or leave him goggle-eyed.
5l) Get in another mood, and go and watch Pussycat Dolls: The Search for the Next Doll on TV instead of doing any more stupid painting. My favourite is Asia.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/CopyofAsia.jpg)
6) Forget about Marty's eyes and Press on. Base colour of main article of clothing (jacket, coat or whatever, usually). Add shadows, then several layers of highlights. Keep going with the highlights until I think I've overdone it, which I usually have.
7) Same again for other articles of clothing.
8) (That's supposed to be an 8 with a right bracket, not a 'cool' smiley!) Equipment, belts, packs, etc. Usually just do one colour plus single highlight on stuff such as this.
9) Weapon (usually rifle with me). Paint metallic parts black, tiny highlight with Boltgun metal. Pick either dark or light brown for the wooden part and add a single either darker or lighter colour for a woodgrain effect.
10) Finishing touches. Usually: Boots, hair and then hats. This is because I find with acrylics that if I paint the boots early on, I tend to rub the paint off them as I'm painting the rest of the figure, just because of the inept way that I hold the base. Hair and hats are last for the same reason: I always steady the figure for painting by having a finger on the top of his head.
11) Paint base. Drybrush highlights. This is usually the only drybrushing I will do on a model of a person (though I do use it a lot on vehicles). It's not because I'm sniffy about it like some of those master painter types, it's just that I'm no bloody good at it. I always find the slow way of layers of highlights looks okay for me, but if I try and drybush something it always ends up looking rubbish. But it's hard to make a mess of drybrushing soil or sand, so I use it in this case. Used to drybrush a lot when I worked with enamels, but I've never been able to get a good effect using acrylics.
11a) Bit of flocking or static grass or whatever sometimes goes on now.
12) Gloss cote.
12) Dull cote.
Ta da! Finally!
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I have been using the Foundry paints for a while, but have started to move over to the P3 colour range which I think has better coverage and the colours have a more natural tone.
Same factory as Foundry and Coat d'Armes (and old GW); I'm hoping to try these myself soon as Foundry are good but very expensive to replace when one runs out.
Although all three ranges come from the same manufacturer Foundry and Coat d'Armes can be a bit hit and miss on coverage (especially the reds), whereas P3 is consistently excellent. Painters looking for ready made triads might be a bit disappointed with P3 which involve more mixing for the shades and highlights.
Pat
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10) Finishing touches. Usually: Boots, hair and then hats. This is because I find with acrylics that if I paint the boots early on, I tend to rub the paint off them as I'm painting the rest of the figure, just because of the inept way that I hold the base. Hair and hats are last for the same reason: I always steady the figure for painting by having a finger on the top of his head.
I used to have the same problem as you, rubbing off the paint, or getting cramp trying to hold such a fiddly little base. :(
Now after cleaning the flash off etc I glue them with a tiny drop of Superglue to Aerosol can lids. They make perfect painitng stands. Its alot easier to hold than a figure base. Once painted and varnished they are flicked off with a scalpel blade and attached to their permanent washer base. :)
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I usually blu-tac them to something bigger, but even so ended up rubbing paint off the boots somehow! So now I just paint them nearly-last.
I should've said that I use GW and Coat d'Arms paints, (GW because they are the only paints I can get in the shops around here, and I have a stockpile of Coat d'Armes that I bought a while back).
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Painters looking for ready made triads might be a bit disappointed with P3 which involve more mixing for the shades and highlights.
Pat
I went off and did some reading up on the P3 paints and I've decided for the reason given above that they're not for me. I can't be bothered to mix shades, it takes too long and my poor colour vision usually gets it wrong anyway.
They have an extended drying time too apparently which I can also do without.
Foundry it is then, despite the postage :(
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Foundry it is then, despite the postage :(
If you ever want to combine an order and share the postage cost then let me know, or if we blow suffcient funds I think its post free over a certain amount.
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£70.00 or any order with books is post free.
At the moment I'm looking to order £6.00 worth of paint so I'll be charged £7.50 P&P. I'll wait a bit until funds are available and then get some of their colours that weren't in the basic set. With their prices it doesn't take much to get over the £70 threshold. I always feel disappointed though when I spend that much and and then only a small parcel of paint pots arrives :)
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Usually work in batches of 10-15 figures.
Clean figures. Get bandaids.
Spray paint figure with GREY Holts primer. Very strong, very fine and dries in minutes. Don't forget mask or you'll cough for about an hour.
Same as Plynkes, wonder how I could have missed that mould line. Repeat process at infinitum.
Paint a much diluted dark purplish wash over the entire figure. Purple contains both red and blue, the most and least diffuse color in the spectrum.
The purple acts as a pre- shading color.
Drybrush entire figure with a light off-white or cream color. Learned this not so long ago from Rudi G who uses it for his as a base for his 'inking technique'. Took me 35+ years.....
I always start with the faces as this gives me a 'feel' for the figure.
I mix Napels yellow (reddish) with burnt umber and burnt Sienna for the base color. From this mix you can make an infinite variety of skin tones just by adding more burnt umber, raw Sienna or Mars brown.
Brush on lightly and remove some of the paint with a clean brush.
Eyes are next with a mixture of again burnt Umber and Phtalo blue- for some reason look much better than black.
One (very small) white dot next to the previously painted bluish- green eye. That way you can give direction to the eye and avoid the 1000 mile stare or Marty Feldman- look as the eloquent Plynkes would say.
Tip; turn the figure over and try to paint underneath the eyelid.
A light wipe of Cadmium Red mixed with the flesh base color for the lower lip mixed and the figure is nearly ready.
In some instances you might want to add some more shadow to the cheeks, under the nose and chin, but mostly the purple undercoat is sufficient.
If some shadow is needed I find that a mixture of Burnt Umber and Alizarin Crimson is quite good.
Eventually highlight the nose bridge, the cheekbones, chin, ears and the upper lip with some white/flesh mixture. Again, mostly not neccesary since the light drybrush takes care of this.
Now, who said painting with oils take too much time? :mrgreen:
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Hmmm.. WillieB - that's the most unorthodox approach so far, but very scientific - especially the purple pre-wash (i do something similar, but using a very dark earth wash).
Most of all though, I love all those good old pigment names.
Alazarin Crimson... Cadmium Red... yum yum. Sounds so much better than 'orc-snot green' and suchlike, doesn't it? :wink:
I'm just guessing you understand, but painting 25mm/28mm figs in oils must surely put you in a very weeny minority?
I once tried the 'wipe off' oil paint method on horses - and can tell you they looked categorically sh*t. :(
Okay - I'm intrigued. Any chance of a pic or two to judge the results? :?
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Most of all though, I love all those good old pigment names.
Alazarin Crimson... Cadmium Red... yum yum. Sounds so much better than 'orc-snot green' and suchlike, doesn't it?
I effing hate those childish paint names ('Vomit Brown'? Come on!). Makes it impossible to talk sensibly to any tradesman of acrylic paints. Bringing that kind of nomenclature into the miniature painting hobby is the worst disservice any company has ever done.
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Captain Blood,
Haven't got many pictures on this PC but perhaps some of my older ones will do.
I find that using this method a fairly realistic 'flesh' colour can be achieved but I'll leave it up to the experts.
(http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/4793/velite01cr0.th.jpg) (http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=velite01cr0.jpg)
Just to show that darker skin tones are also possible with this method.
(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8421/dimacheirus01smallnz1.th.jpg) (http://img210.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dimacheirus01smallnz1.jpg)
Rather fierce looking Diamacheirius.
(http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6691/retiarius01smallaz4.th.jpg) (http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=retiarius01smallaz4.jpg)
ANother one I wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley.
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4575/thracian02ll2.th.jpg) (http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thracian02ll2.jpg)
Not even a face, but a lighter skin color and the proof that metallics in oils are not that bad...
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These are also painted with oils (skins and Warpaint)
(http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u94/Lowtardog/2002_0101aimore0002.jpg)
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I assume those guys are wearing some kind of covering on their winkies? Either that or there's something very odd going on with their anatomy.
They look like the ticks that cats sometimes get. Painful place to get a tick that big! :)
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Of course if you use high quality figures like these beautiful Anglian ones the results tend to be better and easier
(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/7609/pict0011bt7.th.jpg) (http://img256.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict0011bt7.jpg)
PLease keep in mind that
A) I'm probably the worst photographer you'll ever meet and
B) only the face and trousers on this one is done yet. Paint's still wet!
(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3461/pict0010tl0.th.jpg) (http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict0010tl0.jpg)
Another dark one. I almost feel sorry for those poor Republicans.
(http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/1720/pict0009km9.th.jpg) (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict0009km9.jpg)
This face will need some extra shading, but the uniform came out alright
(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8008/pict0008cv2.th.jpg) (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict0008cv2.jpg)
He's not sure where the enemy is.
(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/4975/pict0007lm1.th.jpg) (http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict0007lm1.jpg)
Bossy Moroccan type.
(http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/3448/pict0003ia0.th.jpg) (http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict0003ia0.jpg)
And a Carlist NCO for good measure.
Very WIP but I meant to show part of the purple undercoat and ivory drybrush of course. As soon as they are ready I'll try to put some decent pictures on this site.
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I assume those guys are wearing some kind of covering on their winkies? Either that or there's something very odd going on with their anatomy.
They look like the ticks that cats sometimes get. Painful place to get a tick that big! :)
Yes indeed, they are penis sheaths which I am told protected against winkie shrinkage which is understandable when someone is pointing a 3 foot long arrow at your family jewels..my winkie shrinks just at the thought of it :lol:
What is worse is that their enemies often shaved all their bodys including the Pubic areas to avoid these guys grabbing them and dragging them off to eat, they saw cannibalism as a source of meat and not a ritual....more reasons for winkie shrinkage methinks
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I effing hate those childish paint names ('Vomit Brown'? Come on!). Makes it impossible to talk sensibly to any tradesman of acrylic paints. Bringing that kind of nomenclature into the miniature painting hobby is the worst disservice any company has ever done.
Couldn't agree more. Sadly the whole "GW Speak" terminology is aimed at teenagers [Orc Arrer Boyz.... aarrrrrgh!] & not at us grumpy old b******s.
There are some great tips here, although my favourite so far is still Ironworker's method as detailed in his "Pulp/BoB" thread elsewhere in the Workbench. Not to say the others aren't worth nicking too - just that my painting skills aren't up to the more complicated methods.
I love washes... :lol: