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Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: Faber on 16 April 2012, 09:04:07 AM

Title: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: Faber on 16 April 2012, 09:04:07 AM
Hello gentlemen.
I normally use white primer to undercoat my models. There are various advantage in my opinion: brighter colors, easy to cover white with one layer, easy to see details while painting.
BUT
I know many people prefer black primer. There are many top painter (the Captain, Bugsda, StoneColdLead, Spooktalker, the Prof....and more) that appears to use it with great result.
I'm going to ask you, what do you prefer?
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: Lowtardog on 16 April 2012, 09:17:15 AM
Black primer covers a multitude of sins :D
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: TheShadow on 16 April 2012, 09:21:40 AM
for me it depends what im painting, ie bright colours i prefer a white undercoat, lots of metals etc a black, i do think a lot of it is down to personal preference and painting style though
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: joroas on 16 April 2012, 09:29:17 AM
Tried both and ended up white for most, black for troops in armour and then using a wash to hide my poor painting skills.
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: Hammers on 16 April 2012, 09:36:02 AM
Priming the Blood Way (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=15885.0)

Cptn Blood taught me this.
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: Faber on 16 April 2012, 09:50:39 AM
Thanks guys. Interesting points of view :)

@Hammers:

(http://www.adventuregaming.tsome.com/Workbench/Priming/pic15.JPG)

I know this is the third option. I was expecting you to tell it ;)
It seems a interesting way to gain both the benefit of white and black priming.
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: oldskoolrebel on 16 April 2012, 09:51:43 AM
Black primer covers a multitude of sins :D

Exactly!

I use black for that very reason. I'll maybe paint flesh areas white, after undercoating them.


Cheers
Andy
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: Steve F on 16 April 2012, 10:41:52 AM
White spray undercoat, even if the finished model is to be mostly black.  It shows me flaws I've missed cleaning up and details that I'll paint differently for noticing them at this stage.  Black undercoat, on the other hand, just obscures everything, and leaves me having to scrape off unnoticed mould lines and such when I'm half way through painting.

Your eyes may differ!
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: Drachenklinge on 16 April 2012, 10:56:49 AM
I usually prefer black, due to my painting of mostly dwarves, and also for this sin-covering-thing mentioned above.  ;)

When I want to put more effort into it I use this "black-white"-priming, that is in most cases for heroes, female miniatures and in general special ones or for testing of new techniques, etc. I seldom (mly?) prime pure white, because - hm - I simply do not like it, so far did it only, when my black is empty and didn't like it. However, I know about the advantages/disadvantages of priming either black or white and it really depends about the later miniature and oneselfes "paint likings", e.g. techniques, colours, speed of one's painting, etc.

The black-white-method I stumbled over a few yeard ago. It is a first step black priming, with a slight nebula of white over it (when the black is dry! mentioned just for the protocoll). This method gives a great detailed look of the miniazure and I like it, because I can see "more" of the mini, though it is actually not painted. It helps me to find some ideas or colours for the paint-job to come.

best wishes
DK

Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: DeafNala on 16 April 2012, 10:56:54 AM
I do a thin black undercoat; once it's dry, I do a white dry brush. I find I get the deep shadows  of a black base coat, & the brightness of a white one. The added benefit is it makes it easier for these old eyes to pick out details.
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: inkydave on 16 April 2012, 11:10:50 AM
White spray undercoat, even if the finished model is to be mostly black.  It shows me flaws I've missed cleaning up and details that I'll paint differently for noticing them at this stage.  Black undercoat, on the other hand, just obscures everything, and leaves me having to scrape off unnoticed mould lines and such when I'm half way through painting.

Your eyes may differ!

This totally. My eyes just cant handle a black undercoat, even with strong lighting. Painting some Empress zulus at the mo, superb casts, but the mould lines are so fine that its only after undercoating white that I can see them all. I would miss some if they were undercoated in black.
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: infelix on 16 April 2012, 11:41:40 AM
White most of the time for me, it fits my painting style better. I do use grey sometimes  but not very often now days. I try to stay clear of black at all cost, it just doesn't work for me at all, never have.
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: Ray Rivers on 16 April 2012, 11:53:14 AM
Does anybody ever use normal paint as their undercoat?

I used to do this a lot with 15mm. I would undercoat each area with an appropriate color and then finish painting the area. Then I would move on to another.

I'm going to try this again with my Empress minis because I found that when I spray undercoated, too much of the detail got too much paint and made it very difficult to pick out properly.
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: 6milPhil on 16 April 2012, 12:07:58 PM
I vary the colour depending on the model and what I'm going to do with it, and undercoat both with spray and by brush. For zombies I tend to undercoat in the flesh tone, for modern Brit I use the base shade for MPT, and VBCW blackshirts aways black.
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: Mason on 16 April 2012, 12:13:24 PM
Another option that I have used a lot is to undercoat in a mid-tone brown and then a dark brown or black wash.
This is particularly useful when painting figures that are dark or have a large flesh area, as it works well as a base.
Also a good base for metals and camo.
I painted a whole Imperial guard army this way some years ago, and it speeded the whole thing up so much.

Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: Mister Rab on 16 April 2012, 12:40:31 PM
Grey spray undercoat and a black wash for me. I've just gone back to finish off some figures that were black undercoated from ages ago and it's made me realise how much I prefer grey!
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: Hawkeye on 16 April 2012, 04:21:33 PM
Is there a particular grey primer you use, Mister Rab? I ask because I used to prime white (years and years ago) switched to black about seven years ago, but a couple of years ago I got some 1920s gangster models in a trade, and they were primed grey. That grey primer gave me the best paint jobs (by my standards) that I've ever produced! So now, of course, I've been meaning to prime more models with grey to see if I can keep my painting standard up! NOTE - I am a table-top standard painter! When I say that the paint jobs were "good", I mean that they looked better than what I normally produce!
Anything that helps, basically!
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: Greystreak on 16 April 2012, 06:53:50 PM
Black or grey acrylic gesso, by brush. 

No fuss, no muss, water clean-up, no waiting for 'the right weather', no fumes, shrinks to preserve detail, and provides fabulous 'tooth' to accept paint.  8)
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: Svennn on 16 April 2012, 06:59:41 PM
White acrylic car primer. No whys or wherefores, used it for well over thirty years and have always preferred it.
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: Silent Invader on 16 April 2012, 07:13:13 PM
I used to use Grey car primer spray but a few months ago I switched to black brush-on primer by Vallejo - very thin, shrinks as it dries, provides a nice smooth coating, isn't a spray so weather is immaterial, and cleans off of brushes with white spirit.
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: infelix on 16 April 2012, 07:24:14 PM
Yea I've also started priming by brush more and more since we don't have an balcony in the new apartment.
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: FramFramson on 16 April 2012, 07:48:12 PM
Black gesso.

I was going to try and mix it with some white to start priming in grey, but the white gesso I picked up recently got was all think and manky :/

I can't understand way. It was sealed and new and the same brand as the black gesso I buy (liquitex, which is fairly good).
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: Mitch K on 16 April 2012, 08:39:21 PM
Artists' white gesso (Liquitex or Winsor and Newton) applied with a big, soft brush so it "flows" on.
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: Orctrader on 16 April 2012, 08:44:15 PM
I use black brushed on.  Humbrol enamel or similar.

...I know many...prefer black primer. There are many top painters (the Captain, Bugsda, StoneColdLead, Spooktalker, the Prof....and...)

...Steve Dean, Kevin Dallimore, Tom Weiss...

I have used both white and grey for experiments but quickly returned to black as it suits my style.

As for - and I have heard this often - you should use white primer/undercoat for bright colours all I can say, with my black primer, how bright do you want it?   ;)

(http://www.orctrader.co.uk/Images/15mm/WhiteKnight.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/orctrader/WS1.jpg)
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: Ray Rivers on 16 April 2012, 08:48:05 PM
Yep... they look brilliant, OT!

That's why we hate you!  >:(

 ;)
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: Mister Rab on 16 April 2012, 09:25:01 PM
Is there a particular grey primer you use, Mister Rab?

I got the cheapest one on the shelf as an experiment (Platikote Super Primer) and it has worked fine. I have just (two days ago) had the nozzle clog for no apparent reason, so I may move onto a different brand next time. I think plenty of folk use generic car spray paints successfully in a range of colours.
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: Hawkeye on 17 April 2012, 12:53:32 AM
Thanks, Mister Rab. Of course, after seeing the colours that Orctrader gets over black primer, I don't know which way to go!
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: El Grego on 17 April 2012, 04:21:48 AM
Black gesso.

I was going to try and mix it with some white to start priming in grey, but the white gesso I picked up recently got was all think and manky :/

I can't understand way. It was sealed and new and the same brand as the black gesso I buy (liquitex, which is fairly good).

I had the same problem with my bottle of white gesso (Liquitex).  I actually resorted to diluting it slightly with a 10% FlowAid solution.  Then, I switched to black gesso, although I have a bottle of Reaper Master series brush-on primer which I use on small-scale (1/2400, 1/3000) ships.
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: snitcythedog on 17 April 2012, 05:47:07 AM
Black.  If you miss a bit in a crevice it does not show up as well.
Snitchy sends.
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: Wirelizard on 17 April 2012, 06:02:05 AM
I got the cheapest one on the shelf as an experiment (Platikote Super Primer) and it has worked fine. I have just (two days ago) had the nozzle clog for no apparent reason, so I may move onto a different brand next time. I think plenty of folk use generic car spray paints successfully in a range of colours.

Another user of cheap grey spray primer here. I've tried black, but found it too much work to get properly bright colours. Obviously it can be done, but it's easier for me working up from grey!

I buy whatever grey primer is cheapest at the hardware store, my current spraycan is a no-name generic with the exciting brand name of "Spray Primer Interior/Exterior (Grey)"  :) Never had any issues, except with one can I dug out of storage after who knows how long (at least three years, I think) that gave a small batch of figures a fuzzy, textured primer coat. Threw those into thinner right away, scrubbed them clean with an old toothbrush, threw the can out, and reprimed them, no further issues.
Title: Re: How do you undercoat your models?
Post by: magokiron on 17 April 2012, 06:20:46 AM
Black with a heavy white drybrush.

I think that gives the best of both worlds.

And indeed, my miniatures are very bright too.