Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Gothic Horror => Topic started by: jscottbowman on June 14, 2012, 03:44:46 AM
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Hi, Just come across this game, and have ordered it.
I love the look of VSF/Steampunk / Gothic Horror mix, and as a skirmish game, wont need millions of figures, but... terrain...
trying to recreate a Victorian Britian... has anyone come up with an easy way to scratch build in-scale brick facades for model buildings?
I'm guessing you simply have to score/etch the pattern into a sheet foam material? a lengthy laborious job...
Scott
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I heard a very faint rumour that there may be some card building pdf's based on some famous Victoriana for just this purpose being developed
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I heard a very faint rumour that there may be some card building pdf's based on some famous Victoriana for just this purpose being developed
Let's hope so.
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Funny you should say that Svennn old chap, I've heard the same too. ;)
As for scratchbuilding, it is labourious but worth it and trust me the more you do it the faster you'll get.
If you search under 'underneath the arches', 'victorian buildings' and such like you'll find plenty of threads from chaps on this forum who put builds together.
Alternatively, more buildings are starting to pop up on the market - Jimbibbly at Oshiro is bringing out some lovely designs and a few companies such as Warbases and Sarissa are jumping on the MDF bandwagon. PMC games on ebay is another source of resin buildings, not the best but good quality.
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My friend Carl Stoelzel (Stoelzel’s Structures) - http://www.wargamevault.com /index.php?manufacturers_id=4244term=Stoe (http://www.wargamevault.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=4244term=Stoe) is working on some too (Nagging is extremely effective I find) his aren't traditional Paper Terrain, but rather designed specifically to be mounted on standard 5 mm foamcore, for added durability (something I always do anyway)
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Any reason you can't used embossed styrene? We've been using it for years for any brick or stone clad structures, you can get fairly in scale stuff from the model railway world.
Alternatively what about wooden laser cut buildings which are a fraction of the cost of resin alternatives. There's been a few companies about with Victorian Terraces, Shops and Warehouses recently:
http://www.sarissa-precision.co.uk/store/cityblock28/
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW2-SMALL-TERRACED-SHOP-28mm-Laser-cut-MDF-scale-Building-Terrain-/380415503431#ht_1155wt_700
etc
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Got any linkies for the embossed Styrene - I would (ideally) rather build my own from scratch!
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For scratchbuilding Heki used ot make a foam sheet with a brick pattern in it. I don't know if they still do. Very nice. Cuts like Styrofoam and is fairly durable. I don't know how well it paints though. I've only used it as a basis for castings.
I'm in the process of making new molds that will be more friendly towards the idea of production in quantity. I'll probably have a few designs available over the summer. I just need to figure out what needs to be made first.
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Only problem with this game is the lack of available terrain--although for the sewers you can use the Malifaux paper set and obviously the rural settings aren't too much of a prob either. Really have no idea what to do with the gardens!
I am actually planning on playing in an American setting so will be reusing Old West and ACW terrain, but the urban environment is still a bit of an issue. I am thinking of mixing some Old West buildings and some of the Old Glory Chicago Gangster buildings to represent 19th century New York and faintly echoing the Gangs of New York movie. In fact there is a paper range from TVAG for Gangs of New York gaming in 28mm, but the graphics are fairly primitive by today's standards.
Skrapwelder: I think it would be awesome if you did a production run of your Victorian buildings and sidewalks/streets. I was at your convention game, and they were fantastic!
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Oh I don't know, even if you don't have access to Victorian Buildings (which I am sure now won't be for long) there are plenty of options for Terrain.
Castles Ruined or Not, Churches and Abbeys, Graveyards, Eastern European Buildings etc, etc . . .
LOADS of Options!
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For scratchbuilding Heki used ot make a foam sheet with a brick pattern in it. I don't know if they still do. Very nice. Cuts like Styrofoam and is fairly durable. I don't know how well it paints though. I've only used it as a basis for castings.
I'm in the process of making new molds that will be more friendly towards the idea of production in quantity. I'll probably have a few designs available over the summer. I just need to figure out what needs to be made first.
What sort of Foam Sheet?
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This place has it listed with a decent description but no picture.
http://www.sceneryexpress.com/products.asp?dept=svhqyidoqqtsfzbg&pagenumber=123&sort_on=number&sort_by=DESC (http://www.sceneryexpress.com/products.asp?dept=svhqyidoqqtsfzbg&pagenumber=123&sort_on=number&sort_by=DESC)
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Thankies!
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Thanks for replies.
I found the sheet materials listed at scenery express. As always, with scratchbuilding its a trade off to some extent, in cost saving vs time saving...
What I am pondering trying is to make a building from foamcard or mdf then heavily skimcoat in filler/plaster like polyfilla/tetrion/spackle (whatever you call it in your country). This stuff usually dries a creamy white colour (the colour of mortar between the bricks).
Paint the surface in brick colour red/brown.
Once dry etch/scrape in the brick pattern, with a compass point or other suitable tool, as by simply scraping away the top layer of paint , you will reveal the mortar colour underneath...
Voila!
The only issue is the time it will take..., and keeping neat rows of bricks...
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Thanks for replies.
I found the sheet materials listed at scenery express. As always, with scratchbuilding its a trade off to some extent, in cost saving vs time saving...
What I am pondering trying is to make a building from foamcard or mdf then heavily skimcoat in filler/plaster like polyfilla/tetrion/spackle (whatever you call it in your country). This stuff usually dries a creamy white colour (the colour of mortar between the bricks).
Paint the surface in brick colour red/brown.
Once dry etch/scrape in the brick pattern, with a compass point or other suitable tool, as by simply scraping away the top layer of paint , you will reveal the mortar colour underneath...
Voila!
The only issue is the time it will take..., and keeping neat rows of bricks...
Ah ha, after browsing through other threads here in the forum, I found the 'sweeney terrain' thread from Overlord... excellent work, and the link back from there finally found the name of the thin dense foam material, Depron,(I've been looking for this for years, not knowing what it was called)... and found a supplier here in NZ :-)
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I usually buy from a local model railway store or from here:
http://www.anticsonline.co.uk/1723_1.html
These are roughly A4 sheets so you may be able to get a building out of a sheet or 2, I suppose it's a matter of how much you value your time.
I'm going to buy some of these from warbases and add a little more detail:
http://www.warbases.co.uk/#/vbcw-buildings/4540503237
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As I mentioned before - my friend Carl Stoelzel (Stoelzel’s Structures, BooBoo on various Forums) - http://www.wargamevault.com /index.php?manufacturers_id=4244term=Stoe (http://www.wargamevault.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=4244term=Stoe) is working on some Victorian Paper Terrain, although his aren't "traditional" Paper Terrain, but rather designed specifically to be mounted on standard 5 mm foamcore, for added durability (something I find a LOT of people do anyways).
He sent me a "teaser" picture this Morning, and I like what I see!!!!
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Had a new picture through today from Carl about the Victorian Street Terrain - the finished building this time, with miniatures "in shot" for scale - looking very VERY SEXY!
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The First of Carls Victorian Pieces is available for Purchase and Download!
http://www.wargamevault.com/product/103243/Victorian-Disctrict%3A--Townhouse (http://www.wargamevault.com/product/103243/Victorian-Disctrict%3A--Townhouse)
"Wood Hall" ;-)
(My Sir-name is Wood LoL)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-V4l011t-mbI/T-DlW-jnqUI/AAAAAAAABGk/d51gNHuLUkw/s640/Carls+House.jpg)
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That Carl is a busy boy. Looking forward to more pics.
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That Carl is a busy boy. Looking forward to more pics.
He always is from what I can tell!
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Having lived in London for many years, and having more than a passing interest in architecture, i can honestly say that house is NOT a london house...
More like a Boston or New York brown stone from about 1880 - 1900, but surely not London....?
Not that it matter one jot! Looks darn good if you ask me, and if his other terrain is anything to go by, very reasonable!
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I was wondering if this might fit the bill for London:
http://modbuildings.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/28mm-hotel-ruin.html
Preferably not ruined.
Or this one, reminiscent of Harrods etc:
http://modbuildings.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/28mm-european-merchant-house.html
He also has terraced housing and a corner shop:
http://modbuildings.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/28mm-double-terraced-house.html
http://modbuildings.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/28mm-corner-shop.html
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Have to agree with previous comments. The house does not look Victorian London enough.
Although its still pretty awesome.
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If you stick a low relief roof on it with a few dormer windows it could pass as Georgian:
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/10/1254_20_06_12_2_43_30_0.jpg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/10/1254_20_06_12_2_43_30_1.jpg)
Perhaps this is where the creator is trying to go.
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The "red brick" was actually VERY common for Victorian Town Houses - often approaching more of a darker/dirty red after time (and pollution) overruns it.
I think what throws it off for some people is the flat roof (which was actually more common in London than out in the suburbs).
Also, don't forget in the 19th Century American architecture was still heavily influenced by the "Empire Style" - so these sort of buildings appeared in the US as well as Great Britain (and the reverse is true, with British Architects copying the American designers).
In reality The Empire style (which was the second phase of Neoclassicism) was an 19th Century design movement in architecture (and furniture, and other decorative arts) followed in Europe and the US in the 1800's - however the style itself ISN'T British. It originated in (and takes its name from the rule of Napoleon I) in France, where it was intended to "idealize" the Emperors Leadership and the strength of the French state.
The look and style repeats itself all over the world - in Germanic countries, the United States, and Great Britain. An earlier phase of the style was called the Adam style in the UK (if anyone is interested LoL).
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No particular problem with the style, or even the brickwork, but the windows look too bright.
When do you get a sunny blue sky over London :~}
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No particular problem with the style, or even the brickwork, but the windows look too bright.
When do you get a sunny blue sky over London :~}
Yea, I can see that LoL! - I was thinking of "greying" the windows myself ;)
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The "red brick" was actually VERY common for Victorian Town Houses - often approaching more of a darker/dirty red after time (and pollution) overruns it.
I think what throws it off for some people is the flat roof (which was actually more common in London than out in the suburbs).
Also, don't forget in the 19th Century American architecture was still heavily influenced by the "Empire Style" - so these sort of buildings appeared in the US as well as Great Britain (and the reverse is true, with British Architects copying the American designers).
In reality The Empire style (which was the second phase of Neoclassicism) was an 19th Century design movement in architecture (and furniture, and other decorative arts) followed in Europe and the US in the 1800's - however the style itself ISN'T British. It originated in (and takes its name from the rule of Napoleon I) in France, where it was intended to "idealize" the Emperors Leadership and the strength of the French state.
The look and style repeats itself all over the world - in Germanic countries, the United States, and Great Britain. An earlier phase of the style was called the Adam style in the UK (if anyone is interested LoL).
Drew, I've already drawn up an optional roof, with dormers that I will build and add tonight. I'll let you and everyone know when to update your files.
I'll also see what I can do about greying the windows.
-Carl
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Having lived in London for many years, and having more than a passing interest in architecture, i can honestly say that house is NOT a london house...
More like a Boston or New York brown stone from about 1880 - 1900, but surely not London....?
Not that it matter one jot! Looks darn good if you ask me, and if his other terrain is anything to go by, very reasonable!
Col, I am the guy the who drew that, and you sir, are pretty darn observant, I happen to live smack in between New York and Boston, and probably am far more influenced by that. Thanks for the compliments.
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Col, I am the guy the who drew that, and you sir, are pretty darn observant, I happen to live smack in between New York and Boston, and probably am far more influenced by that. Thanks for the compliments.
As those buildings are no doubt influenced by the Empire style - you're pretty well spot on
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Drew, I added a couple optional roof options, and dormers. I hope that addresses the flat roof concern, but feel free to PM me suggestions.
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As those buildings are no doubt influenced by the Empire style - you're pretty well spot on
I lived and worked around the East End for many years, and do know quite a lot about its history... You have to remember that most of what was there was leveled during the blitz.
Out of all the streets the the ripper murders took place i think only one, Hanbury Street, still has a proportion of the original building left... And i know this because a friend of mine bought a house there directly opposite number 29....
And his house, im affraid, did not belong to the New England Empire style.... and its didn't have a flat roof!
Try using google maps and walking down Hanbury street today....
A sort of virtual Ripper tour....
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/place?ftid=0x48761cca1ec460b7:0x260470f932b444c4&q=hanbury+street+london&ved=0CAwQ-gswAA&sa=X&ei=_tPiT7HzNpCJjwfazNGjCw (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/place?ftid=0x48761cca1ec460b7:0x260470f932b444c4&q=hanbury+street+london&ved=0CAwQ-gswAA&sa=X&ei=_tPiT7HzNpCJjwfazNGjCw)
You can easily see the Huguenot Weavers had a lasting influence on the architecture they left behind.... and makes you realise that London and especialy the East End, has always been a melting pot for cultures and a migrant workforce.....
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I've been clamoring for Victorian London buildings for years only to be told time and again that there's no market for it.
Like Napoleonic French, everyone wants to do yet more timber framed housing instead, working in areas already so well covered.
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I've been clamoring for Victorian London buildings for years only to be told time and again that there's no market for it.
Like Napoleonic French, everyone wants to do yet more timber framed housing instead, working in areas already so well covered.
It's what stopped me going "overboard" with Vampire Wars and Rippers really, the lack of Victorian City terrain.
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I've been clamoring for Victorian London buildings for years only to be told time and again that there's no market for it.
Like Napoleonic French, everyone wants to do yet more timber framed housing instead, working in areas already so well covered.
Flashy: I understand the frustration. I had no problem when I was selling the Wild West buildings, but when I had Victorians up for sale I made two sales in a year. Both were large orders but not the kind of interest in the genre that drives me to produce new models.
A couple of people have released some fine products recently in both resin and laser cut wood.
Given the recent increased interest in the genre I am working on making new molds based on the buildings of mine you may or may not have seen posted here on LAF. My hope is to have 4-6 basic building types cast in resin and ready to ship to customers in August or September. One or two terrace house designs as well as a corner unit and some shops. Maybe a mill or government building as well. I'll have a separate post up here on the boards soon looking to garner opinions as to what is desired most. I'll also be looking for a UK caster interested in doing these on that side of the water to try and keep shipping costs to a minimum.
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I'll also be looking for a UK caster interested in doing these on that side of the water to try and keep shipping costs to a minimum.
Hooray! Hope this pans out as I love your stuff!
PM
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Drew, I added a couple optional roof options, and dormers. I hope that addresses the flat roof concern, but feel free to PM me suggestions.
Thankies Carlster!
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Hooray! Hope this pans out as I love your stuff!
Seconded!
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Flashy: I understand the frustration. I had no problem when I was selling the Wild West buildings, but when I had Victorians up for sale I made two sales in a year. Both were large orders but not the kind of interest in the genre that drives me to produce new models.
A couple of people have released some fine products recently in both resin and laser cut wood.
Given the recent increased interest in the genre I am working on making new molds based on the buildings of mine you may or may not have seen posted here on LAF. My hope is to have 4-6 basic building types cast in resin and ready to ship to customers in August or September. One or two terrace house designs as well as a corner unit and some shops. Maybe a mill or government building as well. I'll have a separate post up here on the boards soon looking to garner opinions as to what is desired most. I'll also be looking for a UK caster interested in doing these on that side of the water to try and keep shipping costs to a minimum.
Perhaps Ian at Fenris maybe able to help, as another upstanding and active meme er of the esteemed forum??
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I'll also be looking for a UK caster interested in doing these on that side of the water to try and keep shipping costs to a minimum.
Hope so.
Maybe Andy at Ainsty might be open to suggestion?
Given his recent bad luck it might boost things for him.
Also it could fit in with his Nelson's Column.
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Urban Construct might be looking at EoTD terrain:
http://www.wargameterrain.co.uk/
They already have 28mm cobbled roads and sewer sections, plus modular building sections.
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Hooray! Hope this pans out as I love your stuff!
PM
I suggested he contact Ian over at Fenris Games, he may be interested, but I know he's extremely busy. If he did take it on, the quality would be second to none.
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I think this fits in here quite well.
As seen on TMP:
Stoelzel's Structures release "Olde Towne"
http://www.wargamevault.com/product/103613/Historic-District%3A--Olde-Towne
(http://s1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc447/BoobooTheDude/Structures/OldeTowneadpage001.jpg)
(http://s1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc447/BoobooTheDude/Structures/OldeTowneadpage002.jpg)
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Ya Beat me to it!
Thats Carls next "Batch"
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http://www.thevirtualarmchairgeneral.com/230-bhoystowne.html