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Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: Captain Blood on 08 February 2008, 11:07:39 PM
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Your correspondent begs to report TOTAL SUCCESS with Testor's Dullcote.
I have read here and elsewhere that (like most varnishes) some people swear by it, others report dire experiences ('whiteys' as they have it in the 'sarf' London argot over on Steve Dean's forum)
Unfortunately, having nearly finished a batch of ECW cavalry, and applied a first coat of gloss spray varnish (sorry Pat :wink: ) my usual matt varnish solution (sludge dredged from the bottom of a tin of Ronseal Mattcoat) failed me completely on this occasion. It was a new tin, and obviously a dodgy batch. It stayed resolutely silky.
As I was putting in a small order with Sr Antenociti, I thought - what the hell, I'll try the fabled Testors Dullcote lacquer. It's good enough for Agis, then it's good enough for me. :wink:
So I did, and it's bloody fab. It does reek a bit, but it goes on beautifully straight from the bottle with no mixing required, and is a thin liquid - like water - not gloopy, like most varnishes.
I was slightly alarmed at first, as it wrinkled ever so slightly in one or two spots where I probably overbrushed it - but miraculously, before my very eyes, the wrinkles evaporated as the lacquer dried.
And boy, does it dry fast. Touch-dry in about 90 seconds, although I'm guessing it takes a while to fully 'go off'.
And the finish is excellent too.
Not the deadening flat matt that some people have referred to, but a really nice velvety kind of matt. Just how I like it. :)
And not a hint of the dreaded white bloom...
A+++++
I'm a convert.
So stop faffing around with sludge decanted from the bottom of tins you have to store upside down, and buy some of this miracle liquid instead!
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Be ye warned and keep an eye on said Dullcote, make sure it is not kept out in the cold or your figures are too cold or you may befall the dreaded White cote. I used to use it until that fatefull day and what do I see...8 Gallowglas with a white bloom. It can be recovered to an extent but wow, did that bottle fly across the garage :x
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Your correspondent begs to report TOTAL SUCCESS with Testor's Dullcote.
Unfortunately, having nearly finished a batch of ECW cavalry, and applied a first coat of gloss spray varnish (sorry Pat :wink: )
Back in the dark times before I discovered Galleria used straight - no gloss no hassle - I tried the Dullcote and had real problems with it lifting the colours, even through a gloss varnish, especially red (and yes I did leave the gloss to dry properly).
Pat
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Hmmmm. Interesting.
Temperature related? Seriously? (Sorry, my knowledge of chemistry and the property of materials is zero minus a bit).
But I sincerely sympathise with your bad experience - I once finished painting 24 Essex British Sudan War infantry after a several day marathon and a hell of a long evening's painting in order to get them across the finish line, went to to bed at about 2 in the morning with them varnished (with usually reliable Ronseal sludge) and starting to dry out and matt nicely - and then when I got up the next morning, was confronted with a row of little snowmen! :(
Interestingly, I had left them to dry in a utility room semi-detached from the house, and I rather think it may have been a cold night...
So maybe you're onto something.
And yes, I had to repaint the bloody lot :x
But I can only say that yesterday was my first experience with Dullcote, and it worked like a dream - and so easy to use by comparison with the usual rigamarole...
But I'll heed your warning, and only apply lacquer in mild conditions from now on!
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I had that happen to me a few weeks ago. Painted up 13 Knights of the SS cultists and sprayed them in the garage and left them to dry and came out and they were all white! :x :cry:
Brian
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What varnishies do people here use?
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What varnishies do people here use?
I will be honest here and await the wrath of the LAF..I use GW spray with a satin finsh (not sure of the name some weird space reference) yes I know people dont like satin finishes but it does for me. I have also used Plasticote sprays and even matt vehicle sprays from Halfords with OK results.
I am not great painter like a lot of the guys here so it suits me to be honest
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What varnishies do people here use?
I will be honest here and await the wrath of the LAF..I use GW spray with a satin finsh ........ and even matt vehicle sprays from Halfords with OK results.
I don't think anyone is going to be wrathful towards you for using GW stuff. :lol:
Is the Halfords one the laquer can? Been wondering about it's usefulness.
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What varnishies do people here use?
Is the Halfords one the laquer can? Been wondering about it's usefulness.
Yes I think so I use of for terrain mainly ...just in case :D
The plasticote one I get from Wilkinsons.
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What varnishies do people here use?
Is the Halfords one the laquer can? Been wondering about it's usefulness.
Yes I think so I use of for terrain mainly ...just in case :D
The plasticote one I get from Wilkinsons.
Plasticote also available at B & Q, (other DIY shops available). :lol:
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What varnishies do people here use?
Is the Halfords one the laquer can? Been wondering about it's usefulness.
Yes I think so I use of for terrain mainly ...just in case :D
The plasticote one I get from Wilkinsons.
Plasticote also available at B & Q, (other DIY shops available). :lol:
Ahh but you also get cheap superglue form Wilkinsons and sometimes nice cheap toys like cars - yo see I say to my better half ..just popping oin for some dog chews ..blah blah and cme out with a horde of goodies :D
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What varnishies do people here use?
Is the Halfords one the laquer can? Been wondering about it's usefulness.
Yes I think so I use of for terrain mainly ...just in case :D
The plasticote one I get from Wilkinsons.
Plasticote also available at B & Q, (other DIY shops available). :lol:
Ahh but you also get cheap superglue form Wilkinsons and sometimes nice cheap toys like cars - yo see I say to my better half ..just popping oin for some dog chews ..blah blah and cme out with a horde of goodies :D
True, nothing cheap in B & Q, (other DIY shops available). :(
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Not to wreck the honeymoon, but there have been some complaints about Testor's Dullcoat yellowing with age over time on the various painting forums...
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What varnishies do people here use?
Humbrol Mattcote - I likeit, a very nice matt effect, although the last bottle i bought when applied now dries to a satin/semi gloss effect! :x
Nice new Avatar by the way. Lets keep this going and we will have a right "Carry On" :lol:
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Humbrol Mattcote - I likeit, a very nice matt effect, although the last bottle i bought when applied now dries to a satin/semi gloss effect! :x
I've had the same effect with the last two cans of Dullcoat I purchased so I went back to using Krylon Matte Sealant. It goes on utterly without any shine and it is built for protecting artwork so it doesn't yellow with age.
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I've had the same effect with the last two cans of Dullcoat I purchased so I went back to using Krylon Matte Sealant. It goes on utterly without any shine and it is built for protecting artwork so it doesn't yellow with age.
You know, I've got a bottle of Liquitex matte varnish sitting on my desk that's meant to protect artwork as wellbut haven't dared trying it out on a figure yet. Anyone have any experience with it?
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Okay - so we all agree. Varnish is a complete nightmare!
I thought I'd found the perfect answer at last with Testor's Dullcote, but now I'm scared!
Maybe I'll try Pat's Galleria... It's about the only varnish no-one's said anything bad about that yet. :lol:
How about the temperature thing? Could it be low temperatures that bring out the dreaded white bloom in the varnish? Any chemists out there? :?:
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Question
How about the temperature thing? Could it be low temperatures that bring out the dreaded white bloom in the varnish? Any chemists out there? Question
NOT a chemist - could be some effect of polymerization of the varnish at low temperatures, or very fine cracking on drying due to high contraction over the model surface at a low temperature. But I'm just guessing.
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What varnishies do people here use?
I use Humbrol Gloss #35 for bullet-proof protection.
Then DALER-ROWNEY Soluble Matt Varnish. And have recently tried Hannants Xtracolor XDFF - which is as matt as the DR.
I have used testors spray dulcote - good, but requires "benign" atmospherics which are rare in England in Autumn and Winter, and has to be used in good ventilation. I have used the brush-on Testors a couple of times with success - despite the stench it produces - then it "melted" the paint on one of my figures so was consigned to the bin.
I have also used W&N Galleria which are very good but, being water-based, just don't make my figures as matt/flat as I like them.
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I have used testor's dullcoat for at least 10 years now and have never seen the "yellowing" effect that has been mentioned. Though my figures do not sit out when I am not using them. They are stored in boxes.
I have however had a few batches over the years that had the white frost effect. I have read that those instances were due to too much humidity in the air and that seems to be true. The solution to that is usually another light coat when the humidity is low. The white spots almost always disappear after doing that.
Just so you know, dullcoat does rub off if the figures are handled a lot.
Usually I use Testor's gloss coat first (I have read that the gloss coat is "harder") and after that coat dries, I use dullcoat. I will sometimes dullcoat the figures again right before a show or if they will be handled a lot.
The other reason that I like Testor's dullcoat is that it comes in a small can. I have read too many accounts of people grabbing what they thought was the clear coat can and discovered that it was actually the primer etc...
For primer I use large cans. Dullcoat & Glosscoat are both in small cans so as long as I have the right size cans I will never accidentally spray something else on the figures!
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I have used D&R Cryla soluble matt varnish until it became unreliable, which was last week! It seemed to collect into puddles which were quite glossy after the varnish dried.
:x :x
After reading this thread, I remembered that some of the guys in a local store use Testors dull coat to great effect and immediately went out and bought a bottle of it.
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Captain, we love the same Dull Coat!
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I swear by Testor's dullcote spray. It dries dead matt, and hardly any danger of the dreaded white-pox. Out of all the figs I've sprayed over the last 2 years, white spots only appeared twice - only when the humidity was more than 70%, and once when I used the first spray of a brand new can.
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Captain, we love the same Dull Coat!
Marvellous! :wink:
Do hope I haven't given you a bad steer, but it's worked very nicely for me on the few figures I've treated with it so far...
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I swear by Testor's dullcote spray. It dries dead matt, and hardly any danger of the dreaded white-pox. Out of all the figs I've sprayed over the last 2 years, white spots only appeared twice - only when the humidity was more than 70%, and once when I used the first spray of a brand new can.
Ah they sell it in a spray can? I used the brish on varnish...hmm that would work. And as you say always give the initial squirt into the air to clear the nozzle, thats a good tip (remember to give a good shake too)
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... And as you say always give the initial squirt into the air to clear the nozzle, thats a good tip (remember to give a good shake too)
Considering that this is a thread about L o v e , You are making hilarious remarks, Lowtardog!! :lol: :lol:
...sorry, could not help it...
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... And as you say always give the initial squirt into the air to clear the nozzle, thats a good tip (remember to give a good shake too)
Considering that this is a thread about L o v e , You are making hilarious remarks, Lowtardog!! :lol: :lol:
...sorry, could not help it...
I think you refer to passion rather than love where squirting and shaking are the preferred option :D :o :love:
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What varnishies do people here use?
I don't :twisted:
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What varnishies do people here use?
I don't :twisted:
Argonor. The Danger Man. :lol:
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What varnishies do people here use?
I don't :twisted:
Argonor. The Danger Man. :lol:
Yeah, but all my gaming buddiers are painters, so they are very careful 'round painted figs. Plus, I find it easier to repair a non-varnished mini than a varnished one... but that's just me.
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...I find it easier to repair a non-varnished mini than a varnished one...
If they were varnished they wouldn't need repair :wink:
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Testors Dullcote lowdown:
1) It is a lacquer, not a varnish: This means that the solvent in it is nitrocellulose (lacquer). Nitrocellulose can lift paint, so it's best to varnish first with a non-lacquer gloss coat then apply testors (remember that testors glosscote is also a lacquer).
Generally you wont have any issues of paint lifting - i've never had it in 4.5 years and out of thousands of customers we've had it reported had a dozen times IF that. BUT, it can happen, so be aware to avoid issues..
The problem is more prevalent with metallics due to the different nature of those paints.
Decals will be utterly and irretrievably destroyed by neat testors - as learnt the hard way :-(
2) Lacquer does yellow.
Lacquer DOES yellow over time and under prolonged exposure to UV light - but then so do many varnishes even those listed as "Non-yellowing". Similarly paint can fade and yellow under UV - so even if the lacquer or varnish doesnt change colour the paint underneath may.
This makes it really hard to determine what is yellowing... but, bottom line is that lacquer CAN and DOES yellow over extended time periods (just ook at antique lacquered furniture for a classic example - then again its antique so...)
The requisite time period and amount of UV exposure for Testors to yellow is considerable - we have left a model in direct sunlight for almost a full year now and notice no changes - do the same in Australia though and you may obviously get a different result to "sunny" UK.
We have not yet had a single customer report yellowing to us in 4.5 years of selling it (obviously that doesnt mean it never happened though - if it did they just didnt tell us!)
3) lacquer is much tougher than varnish - it just is - it's very tough.
4) Sake the can very well and regularly
The matting agent in testors is very heavy and settles very quickly - so shake well and keep it shaken.
A common "complaint" is that cans of aerosol testors staart off matte but go satin after some time. This is a sign of mixing/shaking not being done properly - most of the matting agent has been used early in the can life and toward the end you are spraying low amounts of matting agent and more carrier/solvent. The solvent/carrier is nitrocellulose - and that is gloss - hence satin finishes when not thoroughly mixed.
5) ALL aerosol varnishes and lacquers are temperature sensitive:
The following can cause problems, especially "whiting":
a) Spray from a warm can to cold figures
b) spray from a cold can to warm figures
c) spray in the cold
d) spray in high humidity
e) spray in low humidity
'orrible list, applies to all aerosols - the only way to be sure is to use a test figure before spraying. The most common "mistake" is when folks spray outside - taking a can from inside the house (warm) and spraying outside where it is colder OR spraying on to figures outside which are cooler than the aerosol - that's most often where you get whiting as the dry-rate of the aerosol is affected causing the whiting.
I think that's about it really - remember that most things, even the above, are not scientific but anecdotal, so there are no guarantees.
Having tried many dozens of brands of varnish I personal do recommend Testors Dullcote as a reliable matte finish - BUT you really must be aware of the issues.
Nowadays we dispatch a small list of information (similar to the above) with every can so that folks know what can go wrong.
better to be forewarned we think.
No aerosol is 100% reliable though which is why whenever you ask aon a forum about "the best matte varnish" you always end up with the extremes of great and awful for every varnish - sooner or later somebody somewhere will have had a disaster with an aerosol of any brand.
It's just one of those things you have to accept if you use aerosol varnishes (and lacquers) - so "use a test figure first" every time, si the only way to be sure.
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Apologies for the long post and if i seem as though i'm preaching etc - hopefully though some of that is useful.
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Aologies for the long post and if i seem as though i'm preaching etc - hopefully though some of that is useful.
Thus I have settled on a brush stuff.
Great tech-spec, Antenociti. I think many of us like this sort of authorative run downs.
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The following can cause problems, especially "whiting":
a) Spray from a warm can to cold figures
b) spray from a cold can to warm figures
c) spray in the cold
d) spray in high humidity
e) spray in low humidity
Well, that pretty well covers it.
I'm off to build a hermetically sealed bubble to paint in from now on...
Good advice though - thanks.
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hehe yeah it doesnt leave much does it?
I've still never had testors go wrong on me mind you so it does work!
Mind you the only varnish disaster i have ever had (humbrol spray) was my fault as I broke one of the above rules.
SO only myself to blame. :(
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Testors Dullcote lowdown:
1) It is a lacquer, not a varnish: This means that the solvent in it is nitrocellulose (lacquer). Nitrocellulose can lift paint, so it's best to varnish first with a non-lacquer gloss coat then apply testors (remember that testors glosscote is also a lacquer).
that might be worth trying.... as i tried it straight onto vallerjo acrylics and it was like using paint stripper! :'(
i've since returned to using humbrol enamel mat varnish - not as user friendly as the old humbrol matt coat, but consistant, and no "bloom"
rob. :D
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I am a happy camper now as my old stock of old formula Testors had run out but I found a Stockholm supplier of Testors new formula. Wooo!
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I used to use the dullcote spray and had great results, but I don't really like sprays. Varnish or primer. And they changed the formula in the EU. (Some silly rule...)
Used the brush-on. Didn't like the odour and it melted one of my paintjobs. Well documented this now. If the acrylic paint is not completely protected by the gloss varnish. Must have been a gap. Whatever, any varnish ruins one of my painted figures, it's NEVER used again. ;)
What varnishies do people here use?
LINK (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/orctrader/Articles/Varnish.html)
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I use Dulux matt varnish. I bought a box of 6 x 400ml sprays for £17.99. Excellent stuff.
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For those concerned with the occasional "white" effect Dullcote may produce. DO NOT BE WORRIED.
I have used Dullcote for years and swear by it. I'm not sure if the odd occasional effect is due to temp or what. However, if you spray the effected figures again with the Dullcote, the "whiteness" will disappear.
Hope this is helpful.