Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: Prof.Witchheimer on 24 February 2008, 09:27:34 PM
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I have a problem. Don't know what to do. Don't get me wrong, I'm really a busy lad and my time is very rare but that's exactly the reason why I need your advice. But at first I'd like to go back a bit and introduce you to my "problem" :)
I'm a really long time in that "miniature business". I have painted thousands of miniatures and played hunderts of games. And that was always the same, sudden inspiration, sudden shopping, painting up to the 30-40% of bought stuff, putting it to the web site, now and then some games with the minis. And another sudden inspiration. And more miniatures, more painting, more HTML pages, more gaming. Actually sounds like heaven. I call it "cycle of lead in nature". It's fun but you know, it is human nature to be unsatisfied.
OK, what’s the problem? Did you get it? There are miniatures, there is painting and gaming but no...building! Yes, no building. Easy, isn't it? Terrain/houses/things/etc. building! In my entire wargaming career I've built only three things, two mortheim ruines and an fantasy entrance:
http://www.witchhunter.net/terrain_01.html
http://www.witchhunter.net/terrain_03.html
http://www.witchhunter.net/images/terrain/terrain_fantasy_entrance.jpg
Yeah, three self-made things and no one table after all the years. A damning indictment, I'd say. Since a while I have thoughts about the changing of my usual way to make wargaming. And after seeing all that projects of Father Grimm and Prophet Matakishi and all that crushing Tactica pics I've decided to turn my direction and to begin a new life. A life full of great projects which consist not only of painting some puppies but also of building the houses for the puppies and a table for the houses. How hammershield used to say: “One day I'll show them all”
Good. I’m a new guy now. New guys need new beginnings. And a new beginning is hard. Suddenly I have millions of ideas for my first “mega-super-big-absolutely-stunning” table project. Pulp, Pirates, Back of Beyond, Gangsters, Africa, WW1, WW2, Naval, Sci-Fi and so on…Even I have thought about to make an Assyrian table but gave it up because too many minis to paint and I don’t want to paint too many minis, I just do want to make some buildings. I have enough painted minis.
To cut long story short. I need ideas. What table shall I do? I ‘m happy to hear everything you’d like to say, no matter how mad the idea is. I'm in the looking and maybe you can give me the right hint. I don’t promise to use anything of your ideas but I promise to think about :-)
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well i think you should (considering your other works look amazin) make an aztec village of sortsbecause this would fit in with many of your games you play. and would also be quite a challenge . depending on what you want to make with it. it would give you a goood way to try out loadsa things. e.g. forest making wayter effects building effective stone methods.; and maybe even some new sculpting. im kind of babbling. but yeh thats my oppinion.
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sod it, get some cork, make a city
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How about a desert landscape, could be used for Sudan, The Mummy pulp games, might get away with using it as a wild west desert and Assyrian historical games. :?:
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the thing is prof, your going to get hundreds of posts on this,all telling you to do somthing diffrent. you may be better off taking a step back mybe looking around at what other dudes are doing(old stuff and new) and just letting it hit you, coz it will, it just come out of the blue....
but what do i know, i'm a muppet. :D
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Man, I wish I had your problems :)
My suggestion will obviously be biased towards my own interests at the moment, but here goes: Go with the Assyrian thing, only with a swords-and-sorcery twist. Grim heroes fighting their way up the steps of a Ziggurat, past throngs of Assyrian(-ish) guards and sorcerer's accolytes. In REH's Hyboria, the Mesopotamian empires are represented by eastern Shem.
EDIT: I mean western Shem of course! Eastern Shem is bedouins, berbers and such.
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Good thing the "Frankfurter Schule" isn´t reading this, so I may suggest my favourite aspect:
Flexibility.
Most of your figures are, IIRC, based in that classic "Foundry Light Sand and Grass" style. So I´d start out with a playing surface in that style, with some simple terrain features integrated, such as gentle slopes, maybe a river and a pathway or two.
And once that´s done (maybe 4x4ft for starters), just look at it and listen what it wants you to place on it.
I really like that "Aztec buildings" suggestions, although I´d go for a more generic "mesoamerican" approach. I recall you´ve got some Grimm jungle pieces? Those should go fine with it. And stepped pyramids are easy to construct, but produce wonderful results when done with a level of talent such as yours.
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To be honest, Prof, this is really a surprise to me. I cannot imagine that I am the only one saying that you have been the positive trigger to a lot people when it comes to, gaming, paintning, displaying, concocting stories (I am thinging how you display your africans) etc., etc.,etc., etc.,etc., etc.,etc., etc.,etc., etc.,
But i *think* I know what you are saying about reaching way's end. I have not had the prob in a while but my solution has foremerly always been "dig where you stand". I am not sure if this is a Swedish expression, but I am *sure* it is a universal truth.
The point is to go back the core of who you are, what you inspries you, what you like. Re-read your childhood favorites (Jules Verne, Carl May, John Bauer, Kalevala or whatever) and let that reinspire you.
This is at least how I do it and, I know this will appear pretentious to some, but I think the way to add those extra glaces of inspiratiation?, unusualness?, singularity? is to use a bit of intellect to what you are doing. Not that you are not already doing that, IMO, but I could not tell if you have this perspective on it.
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I'm not in a position to comment, really. I couldn't ever see myself with an urge to terrain-build. I hate it. It holds no interest for me. I like painting little men, not being a miniature architect. If I can't get what I need from Grand Manner, Hovels or ESLO, I put in a call to my man Grimm (he's very good, you know).
Like Hammers, I too would just like to say how much of an inspiration Alex (along with some of the other luminaries here) is to me to try and be better. In fact I would go so far as to say I have been trying to ape his style of late in my own lazy, bumbling way, at first not consciously, but now I think I can admit it to myself.
Also, following his and Hammers' examples, I'm thinking of forming my own LAF 'club', though I don't want to say too much at the minute, as it will probably just remain a pipe-dream.
Anyway, back on topic: Build some Great War aerodromes, and then give them to me. :)
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Good thing the "Frankfurter Schule" isn´t reading this, so I may suggest my favourite aspect:
Flexibility.
Most of your figures are, IIRC, based in that classic "Foundry Light Sand and Grass" style. So I´d start out with a playing surface in that style, with some simple terrain features integrated, such as gentle slopes, maybe a river and a pathway or two.
And once that´s done (maybe 4x4ft for starters), just look at it and listen what it wants you to place on it.
I really like that "Aztec buildings" suggestions, although I´d go for a more generic "mesoamerican" approach. I recall you´ve got some Grimm jungle pieces? Those should go fine with it. And stepped pyramids are easy to construct, but produce wonderful results when done with a level of talent such as yours.
To add to this build some generic Adobe buildings they are the most versatile for gaming whether South africa, Africa, mexico you can use them for swash buckling, colonial, wild west or Pulp quite easy to make too once you have a template or two (check out Matakishi the master for this)
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I agree with Hammershield, you have been an inspiration to many, myself included, and it's unthinkable that you should be bereft of ideas.
Pick some setting you already have miniatures for and build that. Start with a basic playing surface and make some smallish buildings/scenic items for it.
later, if you feel the need, you can do a fully sculpted setting but by them you'll have a clearer idea of what you can do and what you want to do.
Or, alternatively, buy some cork and build a city :lol: :lol:
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Of course Alex is inspiring, but it's very gratifying to hear that he considers himself a novice at something. :)
I think you should build old Singapore, before it got high-tech and 2000AD on us. The Singapore of Chinese and Western pirates, of expatriates and gun runners, of smugglers looking to unload quickly, with its wharfside opium dens, warehouses, ladies of negotiable affection, money changers, mah-jong parlors, and the crazy mix of Western and Eastern architecture.
It would compliment both your pirates and your Back of Beyond/Pulp approaches. Done properly, you could use it to teach yourself how to use all kinds of material and techniques to build. The more haphazard and crazy and crowded it gets, the more it will look like Singapore. And when it was done, you could immediately game on it.
I have faith you can pull this off. No, I have faith you will pull this off in superlative fashion, and once again we will all say: Such Teutonic Efficiency!
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Hi Alex,
We are so humbled by the man who is the 'King of Kings' of everything that oozes adventure:o
I really can't comment either like Poly I either had them made or bought and made, but I've kept it to a generic theme as I must consider space. The Gallipoli game we all got together and made the terrain needed for the convention and afterwards we had drinks and a BBQ.
Its lovely to see such postive and supporting responses from your forum pals.
Firstly, do you wish for your table to be portable? Whether its for the home or for transiting between a friends place or convention size has to be a consideration.
Are you looking at a generic setting that you can fit all your minis into your adventures on the tabletop?
The Aztec building suggestion is a good idea as it polarises what adventure is all about. So many B grade movies that have this sort of building theme, whether Tarzan adventures both in Africa and South America, Congo, Stargate, Phantom or even in the artic - Predator Vs Alien 8)
Just a thought and one I know you will excel at :)
God Bless.
Helen
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It's all been said prof, so although I do not know you as well as most of the people here, I know that it will be a stunner.
I think you need to decide whether it's generic or specific - and I need to read other posts in full before typing, as I know see Helen has suggested the very same thing - well at least I caught myself on time; and will now agree with Helen, and will not go on to mention portability etc.
Anyway - if you go for a specific table - well, look back at all the projects you've finished (ok, that may take some time.....) and then forget your choice and see what sort of scenery you'd really have fun making. And build it.
If I can suggest a topic, though, I'd say your Africans certainly deserve - ummm - King Solomon's mines? A hidden city?
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A few adobe buildings is a good way to get started imho :)
or maybe a secret base style board, (SG1 base or fallout vault styled) modular with corridors and control rooms etc :)
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my 5 cents: If you don't want to paint miniatures, make a table that fits with one of your projects.
- An east africa table with a Kraal.
- A russian village (remember Tashkent? We need a more realistic version)
- If going for temples, why not Pagan in Burma? IIRC you did some Burma stuff. You could equally use this for an Elephant/tiger hunt, if you add some jungle.
- A recently emerged Island with weird sculptures, reminding of dark old gods better left unnamed.
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thanks Helen, thanks guys for your kind words :-) I knew it's worth to ask you, I really love two of your suggestions, Pete's Singapoure is a brilliant idea and Rhoderic's "Assyrian" Shem is just a direct hit.
my 5 cents: If you don't want to paint miniatures, make a table that fits with one of your projects.
no, actuall I'd like to paint some miniatures but not too much, I dont like to paint an Assyrian army, but some of them as Asshuri palast guards and one chariot for the king, that's really thinkable. The problem with old projects as always is inspiration :-)
looking forward for more ideas :mrgreen:
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It has to be a pirates den, Tortuga or some such full of dens of depravity, docks bustling with swag and loot, a slave market, ship wrights et al
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Glad to be of assistance. That said, I won't feel disappointed if you decide to go with someone else's suggestion instead, because many of them sound awesome, especially "Pulp Singapore".
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Since my wife came back from Zanzibar I have had a plan to build a port town with a similar feel as Stone town. I would however make it fictional and put it further up and out from east African coast. The whole idea would be to have arabs, chinese, africans, europeans and indians co-mingle.
(Madagascar is interesting since it was most likely first colonized by malays from the east rather than by africans or arabs from the west and north as one perhaps would expect.)
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Hi Prof,
I suggest something simple to start with. Maybe a tree or something.
Same way as you teach us to paint only one mini at a time.
Of cours the whole project has to be big, if not even hugh, what is what we expect from you.
It should be a modular table, this keeps it manageable and give more alternatives for gaming.
As more or less all others, who were at Tactica or saw the pictures in the web, I am still impressed by the mortheim table of Wolfgang.
So my suggestion is to do something similiar, but as a rain forest.
Imagine the buildings would be hills and mountains of different height, covert areas with large trees and many other green stuff. In addition in between tracks and space to place miniatures.
Somewhere a waterfall, somewhere a native village. Small creeks, and a larger river between the tree and mountains.
One or two of the major mountains/hills could be build as "multipart" of two, three or even more layers. So within the mountains could be dungeons and/or caves...
A setting maybe like in the last King Kong movie.
This could be used for adventures like the prof mini, but would work also for pirates and others..
As I said, something simple to start with...
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(Madagascar is interesting since it was most likely first colonized by malays from the east rather than by africans or arabs from the west and north as one perhaps would expect.)
Thief! Thief, Hammers! We hates it, we hates it, we hates it forever!
(the) Madagascar (project :oops: ) is all mine ! My precioussss :
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/LaGuerreAMadagascar.jpg/415px-LaGuerreAMadagascar.jpg)
Seriously, Prof, I think Pete's idea is the best : Singapour is a the mother of all scenery :roll: a city mixing European and Asian style, industrial (docks) and residential buildings.
But as Chris said, maybe it will be better to start with something more simple & polyvalent. As a first step, I thought of a kind of singaporian jungle /coutryside with bamboo houses (useful with all sorts of pulp, pirate or even Burma ;) settings)
Maybe like this :mrgreen: :
(http://forum.backofbeyond.de/images/misc/06_10_22_workbench_08.jpg)
meow,
Matt
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Maybe like this :mrgreen: :
(http://forum.backofbeyond.de/images/misc/06_10_22_workbench_08.jpg)
thought about that one, too, the problem is that piece is in Hamburg by Grimm :?
need to build something new and yes something small and simple would be a possibility but no trees, have hunderts of Grimm trees around, need buildings!
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OK make a list of;
pick your favourite periods
Pick your favourite miniatures
Then your favourite rules
Score each from favourite to least descending score.
Stay with it :D
You are bound to come out with a game that has all three e.g. Under the Black flag, your chinese, pirates??
. Now think of good games you have played with them - OK you have visualised it yes...then think of how it could be made better, the options expanded or the best it could probably be by using additional terrain, could be pirate islands (using the example) jungle, reefs and shoals, more ships the great wall of china.
Does that work
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how about interia!
lots of peeps make buildings, how about making the inside.
Maybe the inside of big castle, a tomb or a zeppelin.
I would like to make an underground lab... 8)
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Hey, how about a board representing a wargaming convention? 28mm scale players, 2mm scale troops - still a little big, but that's the limit I'd guess. And then you can play the players and have them fight each other on the model model boards.
Is my fever* noticeable?
*Rotten influenza.
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Hey, how about a board representing a wargaming convention? 28mm scale players, 2mm scale troops - still a little big, but that's the limit I'd guess. And then you can play the players and have them fight each other on the model model boards.
Is my fever* noticeable?
*Rotten influenza.
:lol: that's really mad :mrgreen:
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Here's something to consider. It's sorta what I do with reguards to terrain. I go by what I need and what I don't have covered well. This can either be on a personal level or a group level. Do you have a game group you play with often? What areas are that group lacking terrain in terrain? If one of your regular friends has a great pulp city then making more pulp city stuff isn't going to be all that useful for your group or yourself. Is there some gap in your terrain that you and your group always wanted to have?
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Hey Prof, remember you started this:
http://oldwest.witchhunter.net/ ?
My last count were 6 or 7 buildings. It's time to work seriously on that table. And that means to build the town yourself now, with your own scratchbuild buildings, some with interiors, a train plus station, a mine, terrain features, you name it.
Once you finished this project, start some serious frontier town for your other site, Backofbeyond.de.
You should be pretty much engaged for the next months ... :mrgreen:
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Prof, knowing that whatever you do, you will do brilliantly, my suggestion is you do what others have failed to do (or if they've really succeeded, I haven't seen it yet... )
Mountains for wargaming. Specifically, arid mountains.
Yes, people quite often throw in a section of cliff as a backdrop, or place the foot of a mountain in one corner - but a whole table composed of ravines and passes, scree slopes and a dried up river bed or two... Maybe a few rocky outcrops, and a few clumps of conifers...
And playable on, with ledges and pathways, stairs and sangars... Well, it could do you for a whole lot of places - North West Frontier, Old West, Back of Beyond, North Africa, the list goes on...
I've seen people attempt it - but it usually looks pretty unconvincing. In fact it usually looks like a load of irregularly carved polystyrene blocks lumped together...
To carry this off with ingenuity, panache, attention to detail, and to produce a landscape that really looks like mountain country rather than polystyrene and Tetrion... Now that would be something worthy of your attentions... :wink:
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Following on from Captain blood and his penchant for Rennaisance how about the last Valley with Omar Shariff and Michael Caine, lots of nice buildings marauding swashbucklers and the like
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Prof
Try building something that is unique to one of your painting projects -something that you can't buy from commercial terrain and none off your wargames friends has. So choose your favourite paintign project and design some buildings unique to that project.
Personally, since you have been such an inspiration to many of us to try BoB, I would love to see how you imagine Kashgar looks. Perhaps starting with the office of the BOB Times?
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I feel your pain there, brother, and yes, we are all brothers in the All-Seeing-Eyes of Grimm. We all have our lead mountains, we have studied the philosophy of cork and so on and so forth. I am not here to preach to the choir...
Part of being in this hobby is finding what you can do or make that works in the life-space that you are able to set aside for it. I don't know how many of us have tremendous storage areas for large-scale projects and huge terrain and building archives, but I know I have a good amount of space that is taken up with clutter and half finished projects...enough of that.
You have, admittedly, thousands of beautifully painted miniatures, try and figure out what you can build to make a setting for the ones you like to use the most, want to use more or are just completely in love with. For instance, pulp gaming can take you damn near anywhere on this planet or others.
1. Some sort of African village...huts and so forth and so on...maybe a colonial office even.
2. Some kind of crowded marketplace in the Near East...think Cairo from Raiders of the Lost Ark...and buy tons of cork board
3. Pulp city ....with a waterfront or without...make the terrain in such a way that you can either have a board for each or figure out a way to make things interchangeable
My point is that if you make things just a bit generic enough, you can use them for different time periods and get more terrain time out of less building time. Sometimes, you really just need a Tibetan Temple and it is going to look like exactly that, and that is fine, but identify what you think you need and go at it a building or terrain bit at a time.
UncleRhino
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Prof
I feel I must be the sole voice of reason. Run now, run away very fast and don't look back.
Once the She-Devil of terrain making has you in her clutches, you will never escape and soon become a mindless slave to her constant bidding. You will not be able to resist the urge to clamber in skip bins, explore building sites and spend your weekends lost in the mazes that are DIY stores and craft shops in the vain hope that you might be able to appease her unquenchable desire for just "one more bit of terrain".
Escape while you can, change your identity and begin a new life free from her torments....
Either that, or build a 28mm replica of the Museum of Antiquity in Cairo from the "Mummy" movie. :roll: