Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Mick_in_Switzerland on 03 September 2012, 06:03:06 PM
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Fireforge have posted pictures of the sprues of their foot sergeants on Facebook.
They look wonderful.
NEW LINK
Album Link http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.481357498550246.114214.271339052885426&type=3
The sprues allow you to make a good range of Crossbowmen, Spearmen and Hand Weapons.
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Looking REALLY good!
I know they were planned for Christmas release.
But if this is how far they've come, then they can't be too far off?
EDIT: I see on the Facebook page that they're aiming for release the first week of November! :D
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I don't do Facebook so cannot see anything >:(
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I saw some of the WIP infantry shots a couple of months ago and thought they looked good, but it really seems like they have upped their game again. These look excellent. I'll definitely be getting a box. Looking forward to seeing the other two boxes too.
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They make perfect 90's Bretonnians! :-*
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I don't do Facebook so cannot see anything >:(
Me too :'(
How about a picture?
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(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/564549_481357515216911_292497478_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/383210_481358525216810_1945083605_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/200610_481357535216909_1485837907_n.jpg)
Just a few to give you an idea. There are a few more on their fb page
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Like the look of those :-*
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Might use these for my Runissians...
I know we can't say yet, but judgeing from the pics and their current models who will they scale with perry figures and wargames factory? Not sure if they are slightly bigger ???
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i have tried some Perry's war of the roses archery arms on our bodies and they fit quite well
Taken from their fb page.
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Interesting... :D
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.481357498550246.114214.271339052885426&type=1
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ok thanks mr.J ;)
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The spearmen look excellent from what I can see and definitely alot less gimpy than their past releases.
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Their Cavalry matches pretty well with the Perry Men-at-Arms, though the horses are a touch smaller. These should match up fine.
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Fireforge have added another 27 photographs to the album. They are painted crossbowmen and very nice too.
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They look pretty good from where I'm standing- maybe some of the spears could have been turned through 180 degrees to give them a more belligerent look.
Anyway, they are certainly more natural looking than the plastic Norman Foot by that other company who's name escapes me at present(?).
Darrell.
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These are going to be very useful indeed. Not just for medievals but fantasy stuff too.
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They do look rather good. Better than the mounted figures anyway. Although all those crouching poses are a wee bit strange looking. When they bring out foot knights I shall probably succumb, so I can have foot versions of the mounted ones I've been working on...
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Interesting fact for you all.
I posted this thread on TMP and here at similar times.
On TMP, it has 6 posts and 85 page views.
Here, it has 17 posts and 447 page views.
Mick
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Yeah, we are bigger miniature whores... ;)
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We just have broader interests and can instantly think up a dozen different uses for such figures.
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Interesting fact for you all.
I posted this thread on TMP and here at similar times.
On TMP, it has 6 posts and 85 page views.
Here, it has 17 posts and 447 page views.
I hate to say it but maybe we're not all old and bitter on LAF lol lol.
Having said that there are some nice folk on PMT ;D.
Darrell.
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TMP has "lost" some of their more vocal members and is very quiet now.
Mick
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TMP has "lost" some of their more vocal members and is very quiet now.
Mick
Maybe that's a good thing? Might be worth taking a peek over there more often now. I stopped going on their Message Boards as I felt like I was getting shouted down if I disagreed with anything that wasn't altogether accepted as a canon in military history :-[.
Darrell.
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These are going to be very useful indeed. Not just for medievals but fantasy stuff too.
Definitely, I was already planning to get a box of the Sergeants to use as mounted troops to go with my Red Box Games Aenglish. A box of the infantry will give me a nice selection of ranged troops to use as well.
They look pretty good from where I'm standing- maybe some of the spears could have been turned through 180 degrees to give them a more belligerent look.
Agreed! Hopefully it won't be a big deal to cut the spears and flip them without the spears breaking constantly when handled on the battlefield.
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Considering the height of the mounted ones, what will be the size of those? Because Red Box or other companies are maybe a little big... or not? =)
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can we have a non-FB link to the pictures please!
Blue
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can we have a non-FB link to the pictures please!
Blue
They're up on the Fireforge site too.
http://www.fireforge-games.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=123:foot-sergeants-preview&Itemid=477
They're about halfway down the page.
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I think I might... :)
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I think you should... :)
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Interesting fact for you all.
I posted this thread on TMP and here at similar times.
On TMP, it has 6 posts and 85 page views.
Here, it has 17 posts and 447 page views.
Mick
Yes, but on TMP it is posted in Medievals, sub board early, sub board European, sub board 28mm (crossposted to 25mm), sub board plastic and the first reply is someone criticizing them for not being made in metal. The second being a review from someone who has not bothered to open the box but has seen other 28mm plastic figures so bases his incorrect assumptions on prior predjudice. The third someone asking if they come with bricoles and the fourth a poll about whether their favourite 80s/90s band was the Pet Shop Boys.:D
"On second thoughts let's not go there, it is a silly place"
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I think I might... :)
Deus vult.
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Deus vult.
Amen :)
(http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/246619_490585377627458_49179209_n.jpg)
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WohooooHO!
what are your impressions about the painting of those?
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WohooooHO!
what are your impressions about the painting of those?
well, these models are really good. To paint a fireforge's model is as to paint a games workshop model. All the little details of the miniatures are really good sculpted. In the historical range i think that only plastic perry miniatures have a similar quality. The models are good for dipping, for stratification. These are painted with base level, with the use of washes and the washes thanks to the good sculping of the models have done a really good and fast work
i didn't try the drybrush. This will be a future experiment. My concern is the presence on the models of really little details (as the scales of the padded armor)
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I think I just fell in love! I must have these to add to a growing fantasy army. :)
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well, these models are really good. To paint a fireforge's model is as to paint a games workshop model. All the little details of the miniatures are really good sculpted. In the historical range i think that only plastic perry miniatures have a similar quality. The models are good for dipping, for stratification. These are painted with base level, with the use of washes and the washes thanks to the good sculping of the models have done a really good and fast work
i didn't try the drybrush. This will be a future experiment. My concern is the presence on the models of really little details (as the scales of the padded armor)
You've done a damn good job from what i can see, that's for sure! :-* :-* :-*
Darrell.
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Wow! Good job! Now I really need them! lol
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I've been wanting to do a 40K medieval world Genestealer Cult for ages, but I didn't want to use GW Bretonians. These are perfect :)
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Well those look the business, I must say :o
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You've done a damn good job from what i can see, that's for sure! :-* :-* :-*
Darrell.
thank you, but is a work that everyone can do :), the difficult is the precision and in this need to have only practice
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These are going to be very useful indeed. Not just for medievals but fantasy stuff too.
I like these for Game of Thrones Winterfell/Lannister Troops
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I like these for Game of Thrones Winterfell/Lannister Troops
muhehehe i'm thinking some modifies to make my own army of baratheon XD
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muhehehe i'm thinking some modifies to make my own army of baratheon XD
"Look to your sins, Lord Ekard, the night is dark and full of terrors."
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What a fine bunch, thumbs up!
I've been wanting to do a 40K medieval world Genestealer Cult for ages
Oh, definitely something I would love to see :)
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They look great. I've been looking forward to these figures and your paint job makes me ever more eager to get some.
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I like these for Game of Thrones Winterfell/Lannister Troops
Ditto!
Night's Watch too, with conversion...?
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They look brilliant :o!
Ditto!
Night's Watch too, with conversion...?
Had the same thought.
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lovely minis !!! :-*
good alternative to GW men-at-arms
maybe have one in the following months
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another preview :)
(http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/261873_493538057332190_287304948_n.jpg)
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(http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/383509_493547650664564_744217874_n.jpg)
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Foot Sergeants and Deus Vult rulebook, now in pre-order on Fireforge Games site :)
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Foot Sergeants and Deus Vult rulebook, now in pre-order on Fireforge Games site :)
More expensive than I thought they would be.
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I've been watching Pillars of the Earth on-demand and these look perfect for that period.
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I'm looking forward to these too - I wonder how interchangeable the parts are with other multipart sets for Westeros armies???
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I'm looking forward to these too - I wonder how interchangeable the parts are with other multipart sets for Westeros armies???
It looks like the parts will easily swap with the Gripping Beast plastic sets.
Personally I'm holding out for the Templar infantry, so I can get some nasal helmets for Aegon's conquest! ;)
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Those figures look awesome. I might have to break down and get some for my delayed Medieval project. Thanks for the link to the pictures.
Regards,
Hitman
8)
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More expensive than I thought they would be.
Oooh.. yeah. That.
Still, not to be sniffed at. My biggest worry is that I'll have to face another box of GB saxons or vikings to get some mail shirts! That, or put in a lot of practise with the ol' putty - though I already (http://www.cheddarmongers.org/prod/pic/Vermis/Historical/Eorl01.jpg.html) got (http://www.cheddarmongers.org/prod/pic/Vermis/Historical/Eorl02.jpg.html) some (http://www.cheddarmongers.org/prod/pic/Vermis/Historical/Ealdorman01.jpg.html) with my first box of saxons. ;)
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Oooh.. yeah. That.
I was expecting them to be priced the same as the cavalry.
It's how other companies making Medieval plastics (i.e. The Twins and... well, just them really) do it.
Still, 48 is quite a lot of figures in a box.
Nice job on the cloaks there!
Is it as difficult as it looks? ???
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My first and as yet only attempt, so yeah, it is. :P I loosely followed milliput's how-to (http://www.milliput.com/how.htm) article, and I think it's a balancing act between putty loose enough to stick and shape, and stiff enough to hold that shape. It didn't go exactly right. (Although it had milliput in it anyway, so easily trimmed and cleaned afterwards) I'll need a bit of practise on cloth folds to get anywhere near the level of Tre Manor etc.
I guess I'll get some of that too, if I'm planning on a few units of Night's Watch. :)
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Still, 48 is quite a lot of figures in a box.
it is more a question of quality than quantity
number of different weapons
number of different bodies
quality of the sculptures
etc
there are similar box with a lower price, but not the same quality, fireforge for its products made a choice of quality because is made by hobbyists
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Those figures look nice!
Damn, now I need to resist buying another set of figures! I'm already swimming in lead and plastic! >:(
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I was quite surprised by the price which makes the infantry very expensive compared with their competitors.
The cavalry prices were much more in line with the other brands.
The infantry are noticably 20%+ above the other main brands.
Fireforge (£28 for 48) = 58p each
Warlord Macedonians (£20 for 40) = 50p each
Victrix Greeks (£23 for 48) = 48p each
Perry WOTR (£18 for 40) = 45p each
Conquest Normans (£20 for 44) = 45p each
Historically, the Fireforge Sergeants are between the Conquest Normans and the Perry WOTR, so the benchmark for medievals is 45p for an infantryman.
If they had been more normal (say £24 for 48), then I would have already ordered.
As it is, I will probably wait until one of the internet traders offers a good deal.
Mick
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Yes, and going off the preorder prices for the dismounted knight boxes (17 pounds for 24 men), it doesn't look like a very promising trend. Compared to the Perry's you'll end up paying one pound less but get 40% less men, and it's not like they are going to by higher quality than the Perry's.
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I was just wondering if anyone can tell me which historical periods these are best suited to?
I can see myself using them for the Third Crusade and possibly the 1st Barons War, would I be correct in assuming that they would be a little late looking for the Anarchy?
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I was quite surprised by the price which makes the infantry very expensive compared with their competitors.
The cavalry prices were much more in line with the other brands.
The infantry are noticably 20%+ above the other main brands.
Fireforge (£28 for 48) = 58p each
Warlord Macedonians (£20 for 40) = 50p each
Victrix Greeks (£23 for 48) = 48p each
Perry WOTR (£18 for 40) = 45p each
Conquest Normans (£20 for 44) = 45p each
Historically, the Fireforge Sergeants are between the Conquest Normans and the Perry WOTR, so the benchmark for medievals is 45p for an infantryman.
If they had been more normal (say £24 for 48), then I would have already ordered.
As it is, I will probably wait until one of the internet traders offers a good deal.
Mick
Fair enough, but one has to consider that the above are for entirely different periods, it's not like they're in direct competition? Well, maybe the Normans... As far as I know there isn't much alternatives in plastic for this subject? So what's the use of comparing these with each other, if you want medievals then Greeks aren't an option?
I am not really interested in defending Fireforge in this matter, but it might be production is proving to be mor expensive than originally expected, so they've had to adjust prices?
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@ Verderer
I think that you misunderstand me. I have been buying and painting a lot of plastic troops.
With the Perry WOTR, I have bought total 8 boxes so far (Mounted x 3, WOTR infantry x 3, Mercenary x 2).
With the Conquest Cavalry, I bought 3 boxes on pre order and I also plan to buy some infantry.
When Victrix came out, I bought a box of Athenians on pre order, simply to try them out.
With the Fireforge cavalry, I bought the Teutonics and the Templars as soon as each came out.
I started this thread and a similar one on TMP because I fell in love with the sculpts when the photos went on Facebook.
I was planning to pre order two boxes as soon as they came out.
Then the price came and I thought "wow that is expensive - I need to think about this".
For me, the high price was enough of a shock to make me stop.
I will buy them but not yet.
(I used to be a Product Manager - this is a good example of the limit of price elasticity.)
Mick
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I get your point, but at the end of the day though, where else are you going to find that type of figure at that price? Metals will cost at least double that and probably more.
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@ Verderer
I think that you misunderstand me. I have been buying and painting a lot of plastic troops.
With the Perry WOTR, I have bought total 8 boxes so far (Mounted x 3, WOTR infantry x 3, Mercenary x 2).
With the Conquest Cavalry, I bought 3 boxes on pre order and I also plan to buy some infantry.
When Victrix came out, I bought a box of Athenians on pre order, simply to try them out.
With the Fireforge cavalry, I bought the Teutonics and the Templars as soon as each came out.
I started this thread and a similar one on TMP because I fell in love with the sculpts when the photos went on Facebook.
I was planning to pre order two boxes as soon as they came out.
Then the price came and I thought "wow that is expensive - I need to think about this".
For me, the high price was enough of a shock to make me stop.
I will buy them but not yet.
(I used to be a Product Manager - this is a good example of the limit of price elasticity.)
Mick
Yes sorry, I didn't read this thread very thoroughly, I must say. Still, as long as they're noticeably cheaper than metals, and cover a theme which isn't well catered for, I am happy. Just waiting for those sergeants to come out to order.
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Hi all,
while I appreciate the per-head prize review, I'd like to add one little thought myself. Being a risk manager, I don't know much about marketing (and I don't like much about marketing from what I know ;)), but I know about investment and risk.
When talking about plastics we're talking about a huge investment (above 10.000 per sprue I was told) and a very small market. Also, the fact that this era was not yet covered comprehensivly even in metals may indicate that we're dealing with a niche within a niche. So Fireforge is talking a HUGE risk, which (from an economical perspective) requires more revenue to cover it. Thus, the prize is OK. AND they're re-investing their revenue into even more new figures, which is a gift to all of us. In that case I think we can give Mr. Keynes a little pause and order them if we like them, even if they are 10p above the Perries. By the way, let's add a prize-comparison to GW o_o
Best regards,
Tobi
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By the way, let's add a prize-comparison to GW o_o
And not only! The comparison was wise, but it didn't consider some other companies and periods, all the more expensive ones, actually. Probably those are there considered in a different budget level, but still there's to say that even though the Fireforge foots are 10p above perrys, they are still cheaper that most of the rest of the "huge army builders".
On my side, being a skirmish gamer (when i have the chance to play), i don't care much about the difference of price of a single box, where i really appreciate more variants, bits and poses. Which, for my point of view, are not abundant in this sprues.
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I can't go into details...but note that perry miniatures don't have the sculpting cost for their products :)
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I can't go into details...but note that perry miniatures don't have the sculpting cost for their products :)
That's not entirely true of course as time spent sculpting for themselves is time that they can't make money sculpting for someone else. So, no, they don't pay for the sculpts, but they lose out on other income while doing it.
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they can't make money sculpting for someone else
they can't make money sculpting for someone else :)
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Not even GW? ???
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Not even GW? ???
only gw :)
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I can't go into details...but note that perry miniatures don't have the sculpting cost for their products :)
Erm... what? That's their own job, the time spent has an equivalent of money, as White Knight said! =)
The point "they have more market, they can go cheaper" is absolutely valid to me, but please don't bring illogical points! Even because they are not necessary! :)
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I'd like to point out that it's not just the Perry's that are cheaper, but every other historical plastic manufacturer: Warlord, Conquest Games, Gripping Beast, Victrix (though not as much). It also looks to get worse with the foot knights, if they are infact priced at 19 quid for a box of 24, that makes them almost twice as expensive. Again, I will be buying some (well, the foot knights anyhow) but how many is something I will be looking at more closely. And I don't think higher prices is something that should be just brushed aside with "well they are still cheaper than metals", down that road leads to darkness (and GW).
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I really liked their cavalry, and these look great too. As a result the price tag does not bother me in the slightest, and will bother me less when I can get them for staff discount at work.
Consider this however, the box set promises to have a huge range of multipart pieces (from what I can see) and the Knights will most likely have to use utterly different bodies etc. The above mentioned ranges, say the Perries, don't use as many multipart pieces as other box sets, and Victrix with their Greeks merely changed the head options for each box. This may be why that these are more expensive, but thats only a guess.
As another point, the cost for plastics seem to be going up, it may be that they are reflecting this. There is also the issue that such sets cost hundreds if not thousands to make, and given that I don't think there is a large enough audience for 12th century Medievals perhaps they are bumping it up to get as much as they can from their customers?
I'm just speculating of course, and in honesty I personally don't think it matters all that much :)
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Consider this however, the box set promises to have a huge range of multipart pieces (from what I can see) and the Knights will most likely have to use utterly different bodies etc. The above mentioned ranges, say the Perries, don't use as many multipart pieces as other box sets
That may be true for the Napoleonics in their Godawful 'march attack' clone poses, but I assure you having worked a lot with both makes now, the Perrys' medieval sets have an almost infinite variety of multipart options to create unique and interesting figures. Whereas the Fireforge cavalry sets offer a great deal less scope. Disappointingly little in fact.
Let's hope the advent of the Fireforge foot figures does indeed offer more variety :)
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By the way: no previews of sprues at the moment, right? =(
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Sprue pictures are here
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.481357498550246.114214.271339052885426&type=3
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I'm talking about the new box sets. On this thread there are several pictures of the Foot Sergeants!
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There is another Facebook album with greens for the foot knights
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.468400939845902.110536.271339052885426&type=3
Look at bodies 1-5 in picture 1
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the first review :D
http://calltoarmsmwg.blogspot.it/2012/11/review-of-deus-vult-new-medieval.html
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Figures look good and the rules are interesting. It seems like we have a glut of very pretty rules covering previously neglected periods sub periods (Vikings, Arthurian, Crusades) and I'm having trouble keeping up. I'm sure I'll be grabbing a box for Northern Crusades.
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I note all the above, but wonder if the £28 is a typo. Caliver are selling for £18 post free.
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I note all the above, but wonder if the £28 is a typo. Caliver are selling for £18 post free.
Not anymore, they are 25 quid, with a MSRP of 28.
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Sorry to hear that. Must have changed just after my order.
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Sorry to hear that. Must have changed just after my order.
They were probably just going off the prices of the other boxes, then realized their mistake.
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I think the infantry are their best work - fair less 'fantasy' in style and stuff I will consider using.
All dependent on cost of course. I am happy to pay for top quality, but at the moment these seem overpriced.
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Has anybody seen these yet?
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Nope. I'm waiting for the foot knights :)
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My box of Foot Sergeants arrived this morning. Here is a quick “unboxing” report.
The figures look nicely sculpted as expected from the pictures on Facebook.
All the plastic parts are grey and look like Renedra produced items (Perry, Gripping Beast etc.).
Moulding quality is excellent.
You get six identical sprues, each with eight bodies, giving 48 figures.
From the box set, you can make maximum 24 crossbowmen, or maximum 36 spearmen (corrected) or maximum 36 with hand weapons.
There are no command options (i.e. banners, drums or horns) in this set.
I understand that foot command will be in the foot knights sets, that are due later.
There are also bases for the Deus Vult game.
These are 12 bases for singles @ 20mm x 20mm and 8 bases designed for six men at 60mm x 40mm.
I am not sure whether gamers using other rules will want so many bases of six men.
There is a leaflet for Deus Vult.
There are no other extras to delight you (i.e. no history notes, no transfers, no casualties, nor paper flags).
It is a good "unit builder set" for somebody making a large army.
For somebody making a skirmish force, the lack of command is an annoyance.
Compared to the Perry WOTR sets, these work out more expensive (Fireforge 58p, Perry 45p) and the box lacks some extra delight features.
Compared to GW Bretonians, or any metals, they are excellent value for money.
I have not decided what to do with them yet.
A few will become dungeon explorer henchmen.
The rest will be built as medieval infantry to serve as Crusaders or possibly Hussites.
Some of the crossbows and hand weapons will be used to give my Swiss and Burgundian infantry (i.e. Perry European Armies) even more variety.
Mick
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Thanks for the report, Mick. Now photos! :D even fast ones! ^^
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Ohh nice.
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Thanks for the early report, Mick. Would you say the hand weapons and spears are in scale generally?
My criticism (well one of a couple :D) of the Fireforge mounted sets, was the stupidly outsize 'fantasy-scale' axes, morning stars, etc...
Have they toned it down with the foot set, so the weapons look more proportionate and less GW-silly?
Agree it's irritating they haven't included command figures or any extras (flags etc) - especially when you consider these are 30% per figure more expensive than the Perry Medievals and (if the cavalry are anything to go by), certainly aren't a patch on the Perrys in terms of fineness of detail and quality of animation.
But I shall wait for the foot knights and see...
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That stinks about the lack of the command :-[, but I'm still going to get a box of them. I'm working on the mounted sergeants and I'm enjoying them. I haven't worked with plastic in a long time.
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I have got home from work and cut the parts off one sprue.
There is some very good news for Captain Blood and others :)
There are 8 bodies but six unique poses. ;)
There are 6 spear hands (not 8 as I reported earlier). They are all different 8)
There are 4 sets of crossbow arms - again all different :D
There are 6 hand weapon arms - two swords, two maces or spiked clubs, two axes - again all different :D
There are 10 different heads
There are 4 different sets of shields and arms (two of each = 8 total)
The weapons and hands are similar in size and style to the Perry WOTR figures.
They are similar enough that you could use the forearms and weapons to customise the Perry figures and vice versa :o
(I think I will have some Burgundian artillerymen and archers armed with hand weapons very soon.)
They have the same neck on body system as Gripping Beast so you would need to add a neck a Perry figure if you wanted to fit a Fireforge head.
Fireforge album on Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.481357498550246.114214.271339052885426&type=3
Mick
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Hmm. Thanks. That sounds quite encouraging :)
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i'm building my crusader archers with perry mercenaries hands with bow and the rest from our foot sergeants :)
i will show something when i will have some time to paint them :D
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Ok, so the mounted and foot sergeants are out, right? Sorry, havent' been paying attention lately? How soon will the foot knights be released? I might just order some Sergeants and Templars to support this endeavour, I guess it must be expensive to raise a whole product range in plastic. So hopefully people won't just wait until it's complete, cause in the worst case scenario it won't happen because enough people didn't buy the existing product?
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A bit of threadomancy here, but I am thinking of painting my FF sargeants, and was wondering about the colours: would it make more sense to paint whole groups wearing the same livery, or paint really mixed liveries like in the FF sample pics? How did they form historically etc? Painting Templar sargeants is dead easy cause they all wore the same livery (plus i got the transfer sets), but what about your secular men at arms? Knights would have individual coats of arms, but even if the sargeants were gathered from personal retinues of various knights, would they have been given some idenfying kit, like similar shields or something? Of their unit commander maybe? I kinda hate the idea of painting multiple liveries for the sargeants as well. Call me lazy. lol