Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: Chairface on 04 October 2012, 04:11:34 PM
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Hope that I have this in the right place guys. Mods please move it to the appropriate place if it isn't.
Ok, I know that every other company has been doing Kickstarter campaigns, with various levels of success, but I think that this one is worth sharing, Dominion of the mods from Comfy Chair Games. It's a game of pantheon vrs pantheon with Greek and Norse figs starting things out. Even if you don't play the game, the minis are well worth it IMO.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/97182592/dominion-of-the-gods-tactical-miniatures-game?ref=live
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/185/837/6745762cbafa2301a1b7f34ecddff9a0_large.jpg?1349046281)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/185/836/ec879a58a9d0c2634c36695363baa7e1_large.JPG?1349046237)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/185/846/bbf41073b93ab9184453d262182c01cb_large.JPG?1349046663)
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Those sculpts look pretty nice! I like the Athena model especially.
Though I am not quite pleased enough to want to pay 7 months before I get the product just to save $5-10. Hope it goes well for them though! If I was into the mythology stuff though, I might pick it up 8)
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Those sculpts look pretty nice! I like the Athena model especially.
Yes, thats a nice fig, although I have to question her posture a bit. But the shield more than makes up for it. There is also an Ares miniature that will be unlocked as a stretch goal that I think is particularily good, far superior to the weak offering from Foundry. .
(http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Ares-Minotaur-Cylcops-394x230.jpg)
Though I am not quite pleased enough to want to pay 7 months before I get the product just to save $5-10.
That is definitely a consideration that I thought of. I don't know if I'll still be on a mythology kick when the minis come. I want to make sure it gets funded though. As a bonus there is an alternate version of the Cyclops being offered that is for Kickstarter only, and that is what I've pledged for so far.
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I'll keep my eyes on this and see if the Celtic Strech goal gets met. Then maybe...
Cool looking minis though
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Some nice sculpts there.
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I may go in for the Cyclops with extra/limited edition weapons and/or the Amazon but I am not sure I can get behind this game overall. The savings are limited, the shipping not being included in the price, not even a mention of FLGSes, and as most know I am a bit of a Croc/Wargods fan. The minis are not so good as to pull me over to their game. The ones we have seen so far are good, don't get me wrong. But things like Bronze Age Minis Greek, Norse, Viking, and Amazon lines are much cooler looking to me.
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I have heard the talk about savings before. The simple fact is that Kickstarter was not created to give savings, it was made as a crowd funding application. The big companies (who frankly don't need it so much) came in and began giving things away which is destroying the purpose of Kickstarter. Kickstarter is about getting new projects you believe in funded, not scoring a huge savings on stuff. Like many things, the big companies came in and are turning it into something it was never meant to be, a pre-order system.
That being said, there is a huge savings in the Dominion of the Gods box sets. If you forget the rules, the cards and the dice and look at it simply for the miniatures, you are getting 5 miniatures (40mm bases and larger) for the same price other companies sell you 3 models and a few cards. If you break it down, each model costs you under $11 a piece. When was the last time you got a model like the Cyclops for under $11? How many 40mm base models do you see for under $11 a piece?
Comfy Chair Games is a 1 man operation, I cannot give you what Reaper can, but I can give you a fun game at a realistic deal.
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While I can understand the reasoning behind your argument, in Kickstarter, the individual becomes an investor. I choose to invest my money into a concept that I believe in good faith will actually come to fruition, and my money will not be squandered. The only return on my 'investment' are the bonuses from my donation. I see no interest, or no return on the profits of the company. I get a copy of some product for my money pledged. However, I have to pay that money well in advance.
When faced with the seller's alternatives of fronting their own cash, or borrowing from a bank or private investor, kickstarter is a pretty sweet deal. You pay no interest on the investment, and you give up no control of your company. If you go bust, our only real option is a lawsuit to try and recover some funds.
For myself, unless I have a personal connection to the company, I don't see much incentive to invest money for a product that I will not see for at least 6 months, with many of its parts little more than concepts and drawings rather than actual sculpts without a substantial discount. Yes, your cyclops is a very nice miniature, but I can't tell for the rest of the set until after I pledge.
The concept of people supporting something they admire or believe in is admirable, but you will find those people to be few and far between. If you want to raise lots of money then you have to appeal to a broader audience. While the likes of Reaper and Mantic may not necessarily need Kickstarter, you cannot deny that they serve to draw more attention to the website, and will get more people interested in other products such as your own.
I will keep an eye on your campaign, and I indeed wish you the best. :) I don't want to come across as negative, but those are my opinions as a 'crowd-sourcing investor'. Like I said earlier, I don't do lots of mythology based gaming/painting so this specific game may need time to grow on me. From your breakdown on the pricing, it is a decent deal on the products. However, comparing the KS price to the retail price, for those of us on the fence, sometimes we need another incentive to draw in our interest. Maybe I will have to take another look at that exclusive cyclops... 8)
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For myself, unless I have a personal connection to the company, I don't see much incentive to invest money for a product that I will not see for at least 6 months, with many of its parts little more than concepts and drawings rather than actual sculpts without a substantial discount.
You do realize that as of September 20 Kickstarter has began cracking down because major companies have been taking advantage of the intent of Kickstarter, right? There is a huge to-do right now about where the line is. Kickstarter specifically states that if you have a line of finished product, Kickstarter is not where you go to do Pre-sales. You should read their Blog and the article intitled "Kickstarter is not a store."
Anyway, I'm still fighting the good fight and I am borrowing a few bucks from the bank to hopefully be able to include the Celtic box set before this is over. We will see if that gets some more attention.
I have also been tole that I should have the painted Minotaur and the Achilles sculpt by this week.
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I have also been tole that I should have the painted Minotaur and the Achilles sculpt by this week.
Ooooh!
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You do realize that as of September 20 Kickstarter has began cracking down because major companies have been taking advantage of the intent of Kickstarter, right? There is a huge to-do right now about where the line is. Kickstarter specifically states that if you have a line of finished product, Kickstarter is not where you go to do Pre-sales. You should read their Blog and the article intitled "Kickstarter is not a store."
Anyway, I'm still fighting the good fight and I am borrowing a few bucks from the bank to hopefully be able to include the Celtic box set before this is over. We will see if that gets some more attention.
I have also been tole that I should have the painted Minotaur and the Achilles sculpt by this week.
Actually, I was not aware of that, so thanks for mentioning it. I took a look at it, and for those interested you can read it here: http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-is-not-a-store
Not too sure what to think of that entry. In one sense, it could likely hurt Kickstarter's bottom line since they take a cut of all projects, and if they exclude bigger projects...
Nevertheless, I wonder (philosophically) how you can differentiate what constitutes a 'pre-order'? Would it be a project that would go ahead regardless of KS? I think many would fall into that category.
Anyway, enough off topic. Looking forward to seeing some paint on Achilles. ;)
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Loving those Celtic models. Placing a pledge if my finances allow :)
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Celts now available.
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t313/Mervzilla/Celts.jpg)
After doing a little bit of juggling, I have secured the ability to offer the Celtic box set early. You can check out the art for the new Celtic box set on the kickstarter main page for Dominion of the gods. This box set includes Macha: the Celtic/Irish goddess of war who is said to be able to out run the fastest horse and outsmart the greatest of warriors. Also in this box set you will get Caoranach: the snakelike beast of Ireland who was reputed to be the mother of Demons, a firebreather who could poison wells by simply slithering through them. Next is the Bean Sidhe, the ghostlike woman whose wailing would proceed great tragedy. You also get a Formorian warrior, these monstrous creatures were said to have once controlled Ireland until the Tuatha Dé Danann (the Celtic/Irish gods) chased them back into the sea. And lastly in the QuickStart box you will find Finn MacCool, a reputed warrior of the Celts who was unmatched in battle, Finn was ordered by the Druids to catch the salmon of wisdom for them to eat, he was warned not to eat the salmon himself. While cooking the salmon, Finn burnt his thumb on the Oils from the salmon and quickly sucked his from to ease the burn. Now whenever Finn seeks wisdom, all he must do is suck his thumb and be enlightened.
As you can see this is a great box set. It's a lot of fun with characters from Celtic mythology that not many people are aware of. Spread the word, this now makes three possible box sets that you can purchase for Dominion of the gods.
Our stretch goals have been adjusted accordingly to remove the Celtic box set and bring the H.P. Lovecraft box set that much closer to your possession.
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Here's the minotaur painted up
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t313/Mervzilla/Minotaur-6.jpg)
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GORGEOUS!
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The next painted model I expect is Ares, but he's not in any of the box sets. He is however in a stretch goal that I may move up.
Also, we had a pledge for 5K that we are working out the details of his sponsored QuickStart box. We should hopefully have the box figured out by weeks end, have some art and be able to offer it as well.
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Great Stuff!
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Here's the green for Achilles, and boy is he pretty:
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t313/Mervzilla/AchillesPromo.jpg)
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The next painted model I expect is Ares, but he's not in any of the box sets. He is however in a stretch goal that I may move up.
Please do move him up. He's a beautiful model that I would love to get my hands on.
Also, we had a pledge for 5K that we are working out the details of his sponsored QuickStart box. We should hopefully have the box figured out by weeks end, have some art and be able to offer it as well.
I can't wait to see how this turns out!
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Heres the heads up on what we are offering now.
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t313/Mervzilla/best.jpg)
If you have already pledged, then your pledge will automatically be upgraded.
The Greek box set will be getting the five original models plus the special edition kickstarter cyclops with alternate weapons.
The Norse box set will be getting a second frost giant (the Frost giant is being sculpted with two different weapons you can choose from.)
The Celtic box set will get a second Fomori Warrior added to it.
The H.P. Lovecraft box set will receive a third Mi-go in the box set.
This is a great deal, we are not throwing in an extra 28 mm model, we are throwing in an extra model that is over 40 mm tall! So if you haven't pledged yet, stop on by and see were offering!
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FAN-FRACKING-TASTIC!!!!
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I'm in :D
Interestingly enough I had an idea for a game a lot like this about 6 years ago- compiled a lot of notes on rules & such, so I definitely approve of the concept ;)
Only thing that slightly bothers me is the game doesn't seem to care about (for lack of a better term) alignment within faction: there are giants and Thor on the same team for example... how are they not at each other's throats? I suppose it can be a case of 'fight alongside your enemy when threatened by a rival pantheon' but it still feels a bit odd. Not enough to keep me from jumping in though ;) But I would suggest that down the line when you expand and get more options for factions that a pantheon gets divided into good & evil 'lists' -mortals would likely work for either side. There are so many gods heroes and monsters for all the mythologies, I was compiling stats for about 20-30 for about 10 factions, so I know the options are there- I hope this takes off and we see a lot more!
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Well, the idea is that all Mythologies are fighting to become the dominant "religion" again, so if the Aesir win then the Giants will be feared again. If not, they fade back into near obscurity (except for Mythology buffs who read about them but don't worship.) So the lure of "power like in the old days" is enough to get them working together for a little.
Fluffy players will make fluffy lists, power players will make strong builds. Theres enough to make everyone happy. As a side note, some Gods like Loki work much better with the Jotun than Thor does.
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Well, the idea is that all Mythologies are fighting to become the dominant "religion" again, so if the Aesir win then the Giants will be feared again. If not, they fade back into near obscurity (except for Mythology buffs who read about them but don't worship.)
Does that mean we get to field Jesus (H.) Christ and his band of "merry" angels too? It would stand to reason that the "current management" doesn't look well on competition from the "old guard"...
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I'm going to bump this one. Four days to go and waaaayyyyy off target - which is a shame because I would love to see these minis in production. Cross your fingers!
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I'm going to bump this one. Four days to go and waaaayyyyy off target - which is a shame because I would love to see these minis in production. Cross your fingers!
Merv has assured me these Miniatures will see production, its just without Kickstarter funds it's going to take longer.
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Merv has assured me these Miniatures will see production, its just without Kickstarter funds it's going to take longer.
Thats great!
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I thought so too - I love the concept!!!
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What a shame. I am very interested, as is a friend of mine. I plugged it on my blog and pledged for the Greek faction.
I think the high final goal scared people off. Granted the final days are usually a big jump, but that might be more about people throwing in more for bonus stretch goal goodies, and that's for projects that are past their goal. Even Mantic's Dreadball had a goal of $20k, and Dominion is set at $35k.
It's a good idea and I'm sure it'd be popular enough, but my instinct says the large target goal scared people off. The benefits and 'freebies' compared to other projects are not very big. Most of the stretch goals were options to purchase more, rather than more give-aways, and with the high final goal, it didn't look like stretch goals would be met. The average consumer is probably thinking 'I get a 2nd large creature for my pledge' which isn't bad at all, but compared to the load of free extras that some other minis projects are doing, it isn't as enticing.
Not trying to slam them- I think it's a worthy project, I am backing it myself. Just in the environment as it stands now, I think it needed a lower goal and tempting 'free items' for conceivably attainable stretch goals to compete with the other projects out there, and motivate people to commit their money. Coming right after some wallet-draining minis kickstarters like Reaper Bones & Dreadball probably isn't helping either.
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The thing is, the Bigger companies are simply using Kickstarter for advance orders and the "pimp" their products. They have the bunce to give stuff away willy nilly - smaller companies do not.
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I have to say that this is lending towards the proof that larger companies have spoiled the kickstarter pool...
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I dunno, I would have to say that I agree the goal for this project was a tad high. I have seen a few smaller projects with goals of 10k or 15k that were successful. Perhaps those small projects were able to invest more money privately to the kickstarter? Who knows.
I don't think that this project would have necessarily have done way better if Reaper et al. had not had their fundraisers. Thanks to the big guys, kickstarters likely get more traffic as more people get interested in the crowdsourcing phenomenon. Sure, people spent a lot of money there, but would they have automatically given their money to a small and relatively obscure game instead?
People will only invest in a game if it captures their interest. If it doesn't capture their interest right away, it may require better deals and freebies to nudge them along. This looks like a fun game with nice miniatures, but it doesn't quite follow my main interests, hence why I did not invest.
They can always try a new and improved fundraising effort in a month or two if this one does not raise the funds...
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(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t313/Mervzilla/photo1.jpg)
Here's a picture of the new green for Jokul Frosti.
As Van Helsing has said, these miniatures and this game will see market. The question of the kickstarter was really how soon it would see market and if we could increase the amount of box sets we were able to offer upon release.
I see the comments about the 35K startup price. All I can tell you is, if you have ever tried to start a miniatures company on your own you will see that 35K is really nothing. A small manufacturer does not have the spinning and casting abilities of a larger company, so we need to hire that out. It is kind of like when you first move out of your parents house, it all looks pretty easy until you start realizing your house isn't stocked. Your first trip to the food store you buy salt, pepper, ketchup, mustard, toilet paper and all kinds of other necessities that you don't think about on a daily basis. You get to the register and realize your first shopping trip has cost you over $300 and you went lite.
The same thing goes for creating miniatures line. Honestly, the lower goals should have you questioning more than the higher goals. Patrick Keith who started bombshell miniatures last month is a very well known sculptor. He does the concept and the sculpting by himself, which saves a lot of money! His kickstarter had a funding goal of $20,000 and people didn't seem to blink.
It is also true that the big companies are ruining kickstarter in my opinion. Dread-ball is due to be at distributors in November. Mantic did not need the crowd funding. Mantic Went on kickstarter and read the same agreement and agreed to the same terms as I did. Those terms specifically stated that Kickstarter was not a pre-order system and should not be used as such. Mantic Agreed to this and as facts play out you can see they didn't give much care to agreements. In my mind, what is this saying?
The big companies come in and are able to give people a lot of free stuff. When a big company does this, they make a lot of money. The problem with this, is that consumers get used to this happening and then begin to believe all company should be doing it. The idea of the crowd funding model is that the consumer is able to “help out” a company/game/product that they believe in and would like to see go to market. It is not about the free stuff, the free stuff is something the company gives as a thank you.
I'm not trying to be a hater here, as people on my forums will tell you, I just shoot straight and when I see behind-the-scenes shenanigans I'm not afraid to be the one who verbalizes it. I'm the same guy that will tell you the exact price of metal when other companies are raising their prices and blaming metal prices for it.
Anyway, back on target. I just sunk another large chunk of money into Dominion of the gods. I am determined to see this game hit the market, and it will hit the market. I'm not sure that I will do a crowd funding campaign again. I may, I may not, but I won't say never. If anyone is interested in keeping up on what we are doing, we always have the website available. However, if you're interested in getting notifications sent to you when we have news stories, then I would suggest either signing up on our forums so you can receive e-mails or like our Facebook page so you can get news stories as they are released that way. we have a twitter account, but I hate that damn thing. It's a necessary evil, but honestly my 13-year-old daughter seems to get more out of it than I can imagine and all she does is post bits of song lyrics and tell you what she ate for dinner.
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It's dead Jim.
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The kickstarter is, but not the game- they promised they will be releasing it by one way or another. Sounds like the initial release might not be as big all at once, but as long as it happens it's a victory. I think it's a fun project and looking forward to picking up the Greeks, maybe Hindu down the road too.
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Immature snarky comments aside - fingers crossed for you BoB!