Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: Aventine on October 30, 2012, 12:55:25 PM
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We added two more packs yesterday, these are in heavy armours. Each pack has two in mail and two in scale armour. There are slight differences to the armour on each figure. The first pack are in spangenhelm and the second are in Gallic I and Js.
EIR17
(http://www.aventineminiatures.co.uk/catalog/images/EIR17.JPG)
EIR18
(http://www.aventineminiatures.co.uk/catalog/images/EIR18.JPG)
Cheers
Keith
Aventine Miniatures
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Very nice figures 8)
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Very nice... :o
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Great figures from a great little company. Keith has always been a pleasure to deal with.
Regards,
Hitman
8)
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Am I correct to assume the spangenhelm variant could be easily used after 200 AD too?
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Really great miniatures!
I like the mail and scale variants very much.
Compliment to Adam for the sculpting.
And again for Keith for the great customer service.
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Wow! Really like those.
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Pretty cool.
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Absolutely lovely! Romans, with a twist.
Cheers, Simon
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Think they might work as auxiliaries as well. That's a hint on what comes next, right? lol
The spangenhelm is something different. Not too sure about its use in Roman regular formations though, at least prior to 300AD. Any advice on evidence would be great.
Also, it's a bit odd to cover neck and chest with scale but leave your throat unprotected. Shouldn't there be scarfs/tunic collars like seen on the guys without scale collars?
Just minor quibbles, it has to be said. Good to see you extending the range at a good pace, anyway. :)
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MDM
I have asked Adam to answer the questions raised so far in this entry, no point in me having a guess...lol
Cheers
Keith
(Adam said he would join the forum and post himself, failing that he can supply the details and I will do so.)
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Well, thanks a lot for your efforts again. Appreciate it very much. :)
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Hi, Thanks for the comments. Keith has asked me to reply to these questions and I thought it was about time I joined the Lead Adventurers.
Area 23 and Mad Doc Morris, Hi!
First the easy part. The lack of a scarf on those figures with scale collars is really down to aesthetics. The two most recent (of many) illustrations I based the collars on were taken from Ancient Warfare magazine Vol VI pages 20/21 and vol III pages 30/31. The first, a re-enactor, shows the scarf worn with a collar that has no edge binding to protect the throat. The second is a magnificient painting depicting the battle of Nisibis, AD217. The dead legionary on the lower left of the picture is wearing a scale collar with edge binding this time. He does not wear a scarf.
On the original sculpts a scarf looked too high in comparison to the other figures wearing them and the binding really over complicated the figure. As I said in the end it was down to aesthetics and my decision as the scupltor.
The figures in these two packs represent legionaries who are equipped in extra heavy armour for the Dacian Wars as depicted on the Adamklissi metopes. Again Ancient Warfare magazine carries about the most up to date thoughts on this early 2nd century monument.
Volume VI issue 2 has a reconstuction of a legionary wearing spangenhelm and in scale armour (with scarf!) by the artist Johnny Shumate on page 17. This accompanies a great article by Raffaele D'Amato on the subject. On page 30 there is another illustration by the artist Darren Tan illustrating an article by Paul McDonnell-Staff. I think the long held view that these spangenhelms are mis-interpretations by the sculptors of the metopes is being seriously challenged by a new generation of historians.
My own view now is that the spangenhelms were 'aquired' as either war booty or from a Sarmatian auxiliary unit(s) These were then issued to legionaries during Trajan's Dacian wars while the typical 'cross re enforcement bars' were quickly added to current legionary helmets.
How long these helmets remained a part of the legionaries equipment is a matter of conjecture but it is perhaps worth remembering that 20th century military helmets had a shelf life of perhaps 40 odd years with no more than periodic liner replacements. These modern warrior's helmets had far less monetary value in that century of mass production than hand made helmets in the 2nd century A.D. and yet were kept in service for nearly half a century.
Having just joined the Forum today I'm not entirely sure of the legality of posting pics of the illustrations I have been talking about but Johnny Shumate's work is well know and his superb artwork can be found on his web site. Raffaele D'Amato and Graham Sumner have an excellent book entitled 'Arms And Armour Of The Imperial Roman Soldier Marius to Commodus 112bc-AD192' which contains many pictures of the above metopes with many variations of armour styles depicted. IMHO it also confirms the existance of Sarmatian/Dacian archers/auxiliaries in the Roman army and publishes pictures from Trajan's column of Danubian numeri wearing various Sarmatian/Dacian helmets, (pages162/163)
If you have read all this then you are truely an adventurer! Keith, I hope you enjoyed the golf today! Adam from Aventine Miniatures.
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Thanks Adam, no golf too much casting to be done...lol
Cheers
Keith
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Brilliant! I didn't know that. Searching Shumate on google got me everything I needed to know and even more. :) Thanks!
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First, a very warm welcome to LAF, Smithy/Adam! Great to have you here, hopefully you can provide us with further insights on models to come. Thanks very much so far.
I have to admit, even if I don't agree with some views as proposed by Mr D'Amato & co, it really reveals the investment of thought that's going into this range from your side. And that gets a hats off, anyway. :)
So, when are the masked helmets starting to make an appearance? :D
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Inside information eh? Adam
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Raffaele D'Amato and Graham Sumner have an excellent book entitled 'Arms And Armour Of The Imperial Roman Soldier Marius to Commodus 112bc-AD192' which contains many pictures of the above metopes with many variations of armour styles depicted. IMHO it also confirms the existance of Sarmatian/Dacian archers/auxiliaries in the Roman army and publishes pictures from Trajan's column of Danubian numeri wearing various Sarmatian/Dacian helmets, (pages162/163)
I tend to treat that book with a healthy degree of scepticism, and only take it as 'evidence' when I have other sources to back it up - D'Amato and Sumner both seem to prefer to 'live on the ragged edge' when it comes to evidence and its interpretation.
Having spent a couple of hours last week in the Museo della Civiltà Romana peering at the castings of the reliefs from Trajan's Column, I can't deny that some of the auxilia are wearing 'spangenhelms'. Ordinarily, I'd say that it's a bit of a stretch to follow that by implying that legionaries would have worn them, but one has to remember the metopes from the Tropaeum Traiani at Adamklissi, one of which pretty definitely shows a 'spangenhelm-type' helmet (unless it's just a legionary helmet with reinforces - the sculpting isn't the best!) on what might well be a legionary (to judge by the shield):
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/24/AdamclisiMetope36.jpg/576px-AdamclisiMetope36.jpg)
Nice figures, by the way!
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As always just fantastic figures! :-* :-*
A little off topic, but are you going to expand the Carthaginian range?
Christopher
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Yes at some time down the road, we plan on doing them in smaller ranges eg Spanish, Numidians etc. rather than as a whole range at one go. As to when we will get them starteed I don't know.
Cheers
Keith
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Ok thanks. :) The veteran's you have done look just superb! :-*
Christopher