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Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: Argonor on 02 February 2013, 05:53:25 PM
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I just browsed the GW website for the first time in almost a year, as I wanted to have a look at the newest installment of their paints - and then my attention was drawn to the button 'The Hobbit'.
Elrond, foot and mounted, DKK 250,-. And then it's a resin model...
I don't think I'll be bying Citadel minis ever again, sadly, as I had hoped to supplement my LotR collection with some of the characters (that was before they moved away from metal completely).
(walks away, slowly shaking his head in disbelief)
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yes it's real :s
35€ in france...
when i was young, GW's prices were already high but i didn't work yet, now i'm working and i'm not poor but prices still too much high :'(
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Yep, me reaction when I took my 10 year old son in to GW now he is getting into figure painting :)
How kids (let alone anybody else) are meant to afford these figures is beyond me. He was given a resin Goblin King for his birthday which I started to clean up (probably more flash than figure) and I found the figure virtually crumbling in my hands, so crap material as well as overpriced.
Happily we can pick up secondhand stuff at shows, but I have come to the conclusion GW stinks, and am convinced it will price itself into the grave.
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Word of advice... if you don't like those prices for Hobbit stuff, do not look at the prices for their new Warriors of Chaos release for fantasy... :o
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but I have come to the conclusion GW stinks, and am convinced it will price itself into the grave.
that's what almost everyone has been hoping for the last 20 years
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I was also tempted by the hobbit, but not at that price. :o
I even let my sub to White Dwarf go today, I can't remember the last article I read in it..... :'(
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I do wonder what's going on at GW. The prices are so far past reasonable now that I can't understand how they don't see how illogical it is to price your target audience (in their case these days kids) out of the product.
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It's why I'm making do with the Dwarf Rangers for my Hobbit proxies. I haven't bought any new GW product since 2007!
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Gad! :o They must have paid a king's ransom for the rights to make this stuff! The amazing thing is it will likely sell enough for them to be satisfied. Maybe this will push people away...but GW seems to always survive. I haven't bought any of their stuff for years unless I can get it second-hand and for cheap.
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I had a look at GW plastic imperial guard the other day. Made me feel like a bit of a cheapskate for thinking cheaper (and nicer) metal historicals were too expensive.
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Yes, those are for real. And there's only one thing we, as customers, can do about it, is go somewhere else to buy our miniatures. And support the smaller, up coming companies that sell a quality product and listen to you as a customer and answer questions about it. I personally have concluded, a long time ago, that there is no use keep complaining as the ones who ought to listen to it, are not interested. So i take my money elsewhere. I suggest you do the same.
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These things are more luxury items than toys; the same could be said about LEGO, coincidentaly LEGO also has some LotR sets and they too cost about 10 € cents per brick which is really expensive.
There's alway eBay folks ;)
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my missus has got into lego instead of minis and its scary as it could get sucked up the hoover :o
she has the helms deep one and few smaller sets.
i maybe tempted when the thundercats ones appear lol
i dont buy gw stuff new ,though i may have too for a project i will do when i have gone though my other stuff.
though there is places like wayland games that do it a bit cheaper.
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I had a look at GW plastic imperial guard the other day. Made me feel like a bit of a cheapskate for thinking cheaper (and nicer) metal historicals were too expensive.
When the Imperial Guard first came out in plastic I thought they were bloody expensive.
Then GW split the box in half and raised the price.
Who else practically doubles the cost of miniatures *after* they have covered all the initial expenses? lol
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The strange thing is that even though "GW prices are high" and "they're increasing" are among the oldest and best known pieces of not-news in this scene, they still manage to surprise me.
I confess I bought a few blisters from local shop's bargain bin last year...with a 11e price sticker right next to the original £3 from ten years ago. Has the inflation really been that high?
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The strange thing is that even though "GW prices are high" and "they're increasing" are among the oldest and best known pieces of not-news in this scene, they still manage to surprise me.
I confess I bought a few blisters from local shop's bargain bin last year...with a 11e price sticker right next to the original £3 from ten years ago. Has the inflation really been that high?
Fair enough that this is nothing new, but this is just the new low.
GW has always charged an obscene amount for their products.
So in 2015 we will probably be sickened once again at their new prices!
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I'm going to start by saying that I do not work for GW but enjoy many of their products, however as a customer, I sometimes have to wonder and shake my head.
When the Imperial Guard first came out in plastic I thought they were bloody expensive.
Then GW split the box in half and raised the price.
I noticed this myself which is why I do most of my shopping in the US (where prices are considerably cheaper than Canada even though the dollar is at par. I recently bought a box of 24 Dwarf Rangers, at full price :o for $39.95. The newer version carries 12 Dwarf Rangers for $29.99. Theoretically common sense dictates that 50% less models should be 50% less money not 25% less.
Who else practically doubles the cost of miniatures *after* they have covered all the initial expenses? lol
I hope most of you are considering overhead costs. How many of our beloved miniature companies do not have a single brick and mortar store and limited employees with probably next to no benefits. Whereas, GW has dozens if not hundreds of stores with hundreds of employees and some benefits.
I think if GW could reduce their stores/employees and overall costs that possibly we could see prices decrease.
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It would actually be quite interesting to calculate just how out-of-step with inflation GWs price increases are. Apart from the occasional pot of paint I don't give them any of my money these days (though the reason is as much about aesthetics as it is about cash).
I was recently talking to the owner of a local model shop that carries GW products and he expressed how disappointing sales for The Hobbit miniatures have been. Personally I feel that the way GW have been fiscally abusing their customers over the last decade they deserve to fail: hopefully it would serve as a much-needed wake-up call.
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Personally I feel that the way GW have been fiscally abusing their customers over the last decade they deserve to fail
Yet by reporting quite healthy profits for last year they're proving these 20-year old expectations false and their own business model successful.
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It seems there are some that are willing to part with their cash regardless of value for money.
Their price hikes probably mean they are still taking the same amount of money off of each individual, it just means that the individual gets a lot less for his money after each increase.
Hence their 'profit' margin.
What amazes me is that it has continued year after year and shows no sign of stopping.
Can it go on 'forever'?
Common sense says no, but it has already gone on for this long, so who knows...?
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I agree that GW charges a rediculous amount of money for their individual characters. But if I look at the Goblin Town box it's about 2 Euros per miniature and I do know lots of companies that are just as expensive. 12 dwarves for 30 Euros? That's about 3 Euro per miniature. Still within normal price range I'd say.
Okay, 80 Euros for the White Council? That is far beyond anything reasonable. It's those special miniature prices that kill me. 20 Euro for one Gandalf. Hello? The three trolls just as bad.
I don't mind buying the rank and file stuff for the Hobbit or LotR. But I really do look what special miniatures I buy.
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I hope most of you are considering overhead costs.
I keep seeing this argument, and some day I wouldn't mind seeing a breakdown of it.
But if I look at the Goblin Town box it's about 2 Euros per miniature and I do know lots of companies that are just as expensive. 12 dwarves for 30 Euros? That's about 3 Euro per miniature. Still within normal price range I'd say.
Compared to what? Metal minis (quality ones in particular), or other plastics?
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Common sense says no, but it has already gone on for this long, so who knows...?
Surely there is s limit to the funds people (and parents) can invest in minis, it is now cheaper to buy vintage on ebay than the new stuff which seems crazy given that GW can make as many figures as they like. But at £8+ a mini for mass produced stuff it seems excessive....
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Compared to what? Metal minis (quality ones in particular), or other plastics?
Hm, the thread so far has not made any distinction so I'll go as far as saying both, I guess. I often do see both plastics and metal miniatures of early to mid 80s standart that cost around 3-4 Euros and even more. Now I don't want to put down the 80s miniatures, I loved them and still think fondly of them, but the sculpting quality has really improved (or should have).
As I said, the high price range of GW is really absurd, no doubt about that. And I do not particularly care for the 40k and WH Fantasy comic style of GW. But I really like the qualtity of the Middle-Earth miniatures and the average plastic box is not quite as far out as lots of other things of GW. I'm not saying they are cheap - but they are not the rip of as the finecasts or individual metal miniatures.
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Yet by reporting quite healthy profits for last year they're proving these 20-year old expectations false and their own business model successful.
Yes but it's the margins that have changed. Actual sale numbers had decreased. Not a sustainable business model, but one that pleases investors in the short-term, which is the goal of the director.
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Like others I will not be buying these
I have enough unpainted LoTR stuff and between these and proxied historicals I'm cool
I did get the Goblin Town set but only because I got it at 30% discount. When I got Moria the rulebook in that was usable even if you didn't want to buy the main big rulebook. You can't do that here, you have to buy the book
Since I didn't like the way the game was going, with a move to set tournament armies, it doesn't bother me that much, and I'll be working on the 10mm Battle of the Five Armies and Copplestone figs I got years ago even though I could fund the 28mm stuff by selling the BoFA stuff
The Dwarf Rangers were my conclusion also. I did buy a spare Bilbo and I'm using the boxed set Gandalf, and using a Spanish Dwarf Captain I got long ago for a special project, you can play in the world cheaper than using GW
And with different rules too
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For anyone that is interested
http://investor.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Half-year-press-statement.pdf (http://investor.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Half-year-press-statement.pdf)
They actually seem to be doing well. I find this perplexing when I spend far more money at places like HMV which are doing, shall we say, "less well."
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For anyone that is interested
http://investor.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Half-year-press-statement.pdf (http://investor.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Half-year-press-statement.pdf)
They actually seem to be doing well. I find this perplexing when I spend far more money at places like HMV which are doing, shall we say, "less well."
Thanks for sharing that, Wilkins!
I will properly read it when I am more awake, but it is great to put some figures on GW's operations.
But from a glance it is clear that profits are still high.
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I have the same plan to use my existing LotR miniatures, and the Dwarf Rangers box set for the Hobbit. Right now I am regretting shelling out $90 for the Hobbit core book. I could have gotten along just fine with the Lord of the Rings rulebook. While the Hobbit book is pretty, it doesn't have enough crunch in it to justify the cost.
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I'll have to check the newer figures but certainly a couple of years back GW had increased profits but contracting sales.
The prices keep going up, and costs keep getting cut everywhere possible with no benefit passed on to the consumers, to keep the shareholders happy.
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I quit paying GW ages ago. If I get any of their stuff it's on the secondary market. They seem to be selling to someone though and will probably be around to sell to my grandkids. The Finecast nonsense followed by the paint change was the capstone on my decision. Since there is no official GW store within 8 hours of me, and fewer hobby stores over the last 10 years and the nearest Games Day is halfway across the continent there's no chance I'll be playing "official" rules for the rest of my life-so no sense in buying their rules. It just seems like they hate their customers.
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The secret is that GW has monopoly on the 'GW hobby'. ;)
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If the prices where anywhere near resonable (and crapcast was still metal) I probably would have bought everything as I totally love everything Tolkien... now im buying nothing (until I can find it on ebay or on this here nice forum for a reasonable price)...
I have been a big fan of GW since the 80's but they have totaly alienated me...
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Its a real shame as my children are actually showing an interest now.
The hobbit is off the menu for a starting point for them pricewise however LOTR on ebay seems very cheap if you bid on the bigger bundles being sold off. The single figures are expensive but I set myself a target of no more than 50p for a (good condition) plastic figure and £1 for a complete metal or mounted including postage. Setting this limit and thinking I would be easily outbid I now have the problem of explaining all the packages to the wife... ::)
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There were some FailCast and plastic releases this month that I still think must be a misprint - non hobbit, sorry for slight thread hijack ;D
Most of the FailCast is £15, and the single plastic figures are normally around £11. One of the chaos plastic lords (going from memory here, so could be wrong) is also £15 - for a plastic figure :o
What confuses me, however, is that some of the other currency prices quoted for that figure are different from the FailCast figure - not all, but most. So, either misprint, or very rapidly changing exchange rates in different counties o_o
To bring it back to the hobbit - what are they doing with the painting on those figures? Eyes, we don't need no stinkin' eyes. I mean, seriously - bad, bad painting. They're not doing either hobby - ours or The Games Workshop Hobby (tm, reg, patent pending etc etc) any favours.
Final part of rant - do they really need to use the full name of the movie *every single time* >:(
And... exhale :)
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Final part of rant - do they really need to use the full name of the movie *every single time* >:(
Two words.
Product branding.
::)
Gracias,
Glenn
Who absolutely despises GW.
But I started as a historical grognard didn't I?
Also a JRRT fanatic back in my misspent youth (20's and 30's)
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It would actually be quite interesting to calculate just how out-of-step with inflation GWs price increases are.
Quite easy if you have any memory for the line's prices over time, and you're bored and a bit geeky ;D I started buying LotR in 2002:
2002 prices
Infantry boxes were 24 figures for £12.
Cavalry were 6 models for £10.
Inflation rate 2002 - 2011 (according to the Bank of England inflation calculator) = 33%. Let's multiply in another 3% for 2012, to give us roughly 37% inflation from 2002 to 2012.
2012 prices
Most Lotr infantry 24 figures (now 2 boxes) £30. Increased by 150%.
New Dwarf Grim Hammers 24 figures (2 boxes) costs £40. increased by 234%.
Most Lotr cavalry £18 (still 6 models). Increased by 80%.
New Rivendell cavalry £30 for 6 models. Increased by 200%.
Price increases were more in line with inflation (well, 60% or so) until the start of 2012, when the infantry boxes were split in two and the price hardly dropped. The same is true of a lot of WFB and 40k models - you often now get 10 figures in a box for roughly what 20 would cost only five or six years ago (Imperial Guard troops being a good example).
Interestingly, there are models that have gone up less than inflation. The core troop regiments for Tomb Kings have gone from £15 to £20 in that period - price inflation of £33%. In these cases, they're still selling exactly the same models as they did ten years ago.
Even at £18, the plastic LotR cavalry are still a decent deal - £3 per model. But the infantry include a lot of sets that are really showing their age - Moria goblins and Mordor orcs, for example. Both, of course, look bad when compared with the prices for modern historical plastics.
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Thanks for this info. It kind of undelines my perception that in certain areas GW has gone bonkers while in other areas the price is within a "reasonable" (whatever that may be and please note the quotation marks) range. Though admittedly those are getting fewer...
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The last release of GW are incredibly over priced.
I had resisted since then but I think this time I'm done.
30€ for Bilbo and Gollum ? No way.
40€ for 6 Elves of Horses when the Riders of Rohan box is still 23€ !?
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30€ for Bilbo and Gollum ? No way.
Hey hey, don't forget you get a tiny little boat and a little rock too.
::)
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funny thing with GW toys, they are about the only toys I can buy my kids that when we're done playing with them I can sell them for more than I bought them for
which when you compare them with the competition- computer games/footballs etc
just saying...
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The last thing I bought from GW was the sixth edition starter box. I have enough figures from earlier in my career that I really don't need to buy anything else to play several armies...and at the rate their price continue to increase, I likely won't be buying anything else either. I looked at the new Chaos Space Marine codex and there's no way I'm paying that much for an army book. I'll play casual games with my friends with the old codex, or just play a different game altogether.
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Well, as stated, I'm probably done buying stuff from GW. Simply can't justify using that kind of money on such few models. Never really liked most of their rulesets, anyway (LotR at first seemed a nice change, but the rules quickly proved themselves to favour clustering the minis instead of spreading them out in real cinematic skirmish-style, which made the course of a game a tad predictable).
Until I find myself a new reliable source of income, I won't be buying anything else, either, but on the other hand, I probably have minis enough to last the rest of my life, given that I can restrain myself to already planned projects. ::)
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The company seems bent on maximising profits at the cost of pretty much every aspect of their 'hobby'. Many of the newer models are awful and designed purely as an excuse to raise prices. The new Scyla is a good example - the first two incarnations were far smaller than the new one. I suppose they did something similar with Gazhgkull Thraka many years ago, but that was an exception at the time. The changes to some of the infantry boxes are particularly bad - 10 plastic Orcs now cost a lot of money and for a large army you'd need to buy several boxes to the extent that an army with lots of basic Orcs is no longer an option for the majority of Orcists.
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way beyond anything I am willing to pay.
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I'm willing to pay if they're all cast by blonde blue eyed big breasted virgins
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we all realise that this hobby is all about luxury items, and we all like to complain about how much it costs, but the latest round of releases are something else. I've always felt that GW stuff was expensive, but i've never felt genuinely out priced of their products until now. they don't seem expensive, but out and out wrong.
£25 for a frankly megre character on horse and foot is not exactly good value. i'm not even sure it constitutes bad value. terrible value is much closer to the mark. their Warhammer and 40k releases are even worse though. i can't quite get my head around the new Slaughterbrute, which is in its own right a reasonable enough model. but I just can't justify the price tag of £50. particularly considering its a multipart plastic model that basically cannot be personalised in any way and is stuck in a moronic pose.
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50 quid is not that bad compared to the $100CAD price tag for that guy...
Funny thing, I was just comparing the regional prices for a couple of the chaos releases and it makes no sense!
Slaughterbrute = 50GBP = $85USD = $100CAD = $96AUD = $113NZD
Dragon Ogres = 35GBP = $60USD = $70CAD = $79AUD?? = $94NZD??
Throgg = 36GBP = $58USD = $70CAD = $96AUD?? = $113NZD???
Somehow when you go below the equator, Throgg goes up about about 40% in cost comparatively... ignore the fact that 50GBP is actually about $80CAD. Kinda weird how the relative price of each figure is not consistent geographically o_o
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I think their argument is they have to pay for a warehouse in the Southern Hemisphere and that's why they increase the price for down here. Personally I don't give a crap about a warehouse, I'd like to just order direct from the uk, postage isn't that much different tbh especially considering postage is $20 for me. It used to be that postage was free at $40orders now its at $80 orders. It costs less getting a package from the uk. Usually that sets me back $12, (£6)
What's the deal with Throgg?
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Hundreds of tiny miniature companies can exist because the cost of a short production run of figs high as it is, IS still competitive when compared to GW pricing and in a lot of cases the sculpts are as good as or better than the GW fare.
these are actually remarkably valid points!
Pricing is always about what people are willing to pay - GW has long ago started to target the wealthier parents, we are not what counts in the calculation
the GW lament always reminds me a bit of middle aged guys lamenting a long lost love interest ;) ;)
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the GW lament always reminds me a bit of middle aged guys lamenting a long lost love interest ;) ;)
Sometimes even the things you love end up taking too many resources to keep in your life and you just have to walk away.
Of course unlike with a person most people don't follow what the person they left is doing on the off chance they stop being so high maintenance.
:)
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:D
true
I must say I find this a very attractive approach
the same way one can deal with the throwaway clothing industry by buying 2nd hand one can treat GW
buy 2nd hand, support Your retailer
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Yep, in the past ten years I've only bought one GW miniature new, but a huge amount second hand, most of which I have now sold again to make them third/fourth hand and counting.
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Yep, in the past ten years I've only bought one GW miniature new, but a huge amount second hand, most of which I have now sold again to make them third/fourth hand and counting.
That is me you are talking about there!
I have bought their old washes in the past, but it is AT LEAST ten years since I bought any miniatures direct from them.
In this case, ebay is your friend.
:D
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I'm willing to pay if they're all cast by blonde blue eyed big breasted virgins
Some of them are, Bob's quite touchy about his 'glandular problem' though... ;)
The bulk of GW customers are either; largely blissfully unaware of there being anything outside of the GW hobby, hence there being nothing to compare the price to, or that GW 'brand awareness' is so entrenched (hence all the threats of law suits), that anything else is just seen as 'cheap knock-offs', like those two-stripe training shoes you used to find on markets a lot.
In a society that changes its mobile phones every two minutes, GW's prices aren't seen in the same light as we see them. I think it comes under 'conspicuous display of wealth' when you're sat there with your gaming buddies comparing models.
the GW lament always reminds me a bit of middle aged guys lamenting a long lost love interest ;) ;)
lol Very close to the truth... you even get all of the stages they went through to deal with the loss.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-r3YQUVeqHDI/URYc26_727I/AAAAAAAAM6c/EENf3ZFE2ks/s400/kubler_ross.gif)
They usually then look for something like they once had...
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I surely won't be buying anything 'new' from them in any overseeable future, and probably ever again.
As stated, the second-hand market is the only sound way to go about it these days, if there's something one 'must' own.
My initial post was more of a shout out in disbelief that anyone is actually willing to pay that much for so few models; I think I reached my limit at about €10 for a mounted Saruman (metal) - actually one of the last LotR models I bought in Kiel several years ago.
I don't question a company's right to price their product(s), I am merely wondering how far they can stretch that business model before the market reacts in a negative way.
Microeconomics theory tells us, that even in a market with monopoly (and I think it fair to say that GW has a kind of monopoly, at least a psychological one), there has to be an equlibrium price, even though it's higher than in a free competition market. So, at some point sales should be affected, lest the fanboy crowd be so brain-washed, that it'll rather buy miniatures than food and clothing (and, yes, many of the targeted customers do not make the buying decision themselves, merely influencing their - hopefully wealthy - parents, but that just - to me at least - suggests that the utiilty-choices should weigh even stronger).
I still think they make the occational cool mini, but, frankly, most of their stuff these days is completely over the top (bigger, skullier, spikier, etc.), and as stated, I never really liked their cumbersome rules, so it's not really a big thing for me to turn my back. I would have loved to complement my LotR collection with some of the Hobbit stuff, but prices and choice of material really puts me off.
The only thing I really lament, is the possibility that maybe fewer new hobbyists are 'created' through the 'GW-hobby', put off by the sheer cost of collecting a battle-worthy force; whatever anyone thinks of GW, many of us started collecting, painting and gaming with GW minis, because they were the product readily available. Maybe companies like Mantic will take over that role in the future, but only time can tell what happens.
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Interesting points about price elasticity there Niels. But I think the strongest point here is the fact that the topic comes up again and again and... well!
I for one would really like to get my hands on some of the new stuff, especially one of the ork fighter planes or one of the big IG tanks or just some of the plethora of new LOTR things that fail to show up 2nd hand... but my budget of ~£30 a month doesn't get me anywhere these days. lol
And it seems hard to justify putting out money for plastic kits I will rarely use instead of some more things for what I'm already doing.
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Hey hey, don't forget you get a tiny little boat and a little rock too.
::)
And there's bricks and motar overheads to consider too. Misty mountain caverns dont pay for themselves. :?
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Interesting points about price elasticity there Niels. But I think the strongest point here is the fact that the topic comes up again and again and... well!
I know, I just can't help thinking that they must, eventually, reach a turning point if they keep pushing it that way.
At the end of the day, I don't really care about it anymore, though, as I'm not buying their stuff, but I can't stop wondering, never the less. It just seems so unreal, somehow :)
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I for one would really like to get my hands on some of the new stuff, [...] but my budget of ~£30 a month doesn't get me anywhere these days. lol
this is exactly how i feel. i actually really like GW games, miniatures and the worlds that they create. i'd love to be able to continue to take part in them, but i just can't square the expense with the level of reward; particularly when you consider the innumerable other game systems out there that don't require so much monetary investment (and in the end, they'll be the one's getting my cash, not GW).
the sense of value has become even more poignant since the birth of my daughter last summer. its a long way off yet, but i want to be able to introduce my children to the wonderful world of miniature wargaming that i've discovered and i would love for them to be able to see the games that got me into it for themselves. but i as it stands i can't see that happening. GW aren't going to be making more money from me with their price hikes, they'll just see that same money going to their competitors.
i worked for GW in 2011 and i knew that they were not particularly interested in the customer base, but when you visit the HQ and see 'behind closed doors', you really get a sense for just how little they care about their customers (to the point of loosing money). issues of a lack of ethic and gender diversity amongst customers were raised, simply from the point of view of new markets to make more profits from, and they were brushed off saying, 'we already make stuff they can buy if they want to get into it'. its this same callous thinking that i think motivates the pricing. they want more money, and they aren't willing to consider what impact raising prices will have.
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I certainly don't hate GW. They make a lot of nice stuff, and the local shop staff have been great over the past decade. They were fantastic with the school club I ran back when I was teaching, coming out to club sessions with freebies, running games, etc. And many of them they genuinely want to talk about models, painting and gaming in general (when they're not working :)). One or two were happy to admit that they worked in GW more to chat up the MILFs who brought in their kids than for the gaming...
But there's a disconnect between that and the corporate-level asshattery that they're well known for - increasing price insanity, treating the shops they supply and the internet fanbase as a threat rather than supporters, restrictive trade practices (sorry rest of world), setting up store near gameshops they knew were successful because they supplied them...
It's not unique to GW, but a little goes a long way in a niche industry where a lot of people know each other personally.
Ultimately, Scurv has it - I've accumulated enough terminators second-hand over the years for an almost-legal Deathwing army. Total cost, £40. But it's not going to happen. Why? Well adding in Belial, a command squad (6 minis total) and the new army rules would set me back another £80. And don't get me started on the Hobbit prices...
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It just seems there is no easy way into GW now. It used to be a slow accumilation of (unpainted) lead now its special this and that and multipose plastic whatnots and the necessity to have the biggest thing on the table. All of which costs the same a another whole army elsewhere.
Mighty armies of countless troops clashing seems to have fallen by the wayside to a privateer press style "Skirmish" with units of some things and massive things to stomp them.
The hobbit should be a starting point but is expensive and where do you go from there?
Straight into price craziness and no doubt conclude ebay is your friend which does not add anything to the GW coffers.
What I would be interested in is if Battle Games in Middle Earth makes a comeback or something similar.
I just don't think that loads of stores are that viable when the hobby is massively internet based now. GW should consider supporting independants and let them bear the risk of premises and the rest in exchange for a cheaper product that will sell.