Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Vermis on February 06, 2013, 08:56:48 PM
-
I've been looking at 14thC/Medieval minis for fantasy lately, and I'd just started circling round Foundry's airport when Claymore Castings' new knights arrived on the scene and made me notice their site.
CC's minis do look great, and the name Paul Hicks is a plus in my book, but is it enough to trump the name 'Perry' on Foundry's medievals? (Am I right in assuming the Perrys sculpted most if not all of those?) Has anyone personally seen of both, to make a comment?
I sometimes try to make a point of supporting the little guy, but Foundry just works out a bit cheaper for amy-building, especially since they now include any wire spears in the pack. For some reason Claymore took their spears off the site, so I'd have the faff of going elsewhere for those anyway...
I know it looks like I've made up my mind anyway, but... nearly. (Anyone remember 'Wavy Mavis' from Open All Hours?) Any good comparisons out there?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGTCdKxX0QU
-
I'm probably going to be hung, drawn, quartered and buried under a car park for saying this but I prefer the figures from Claymore Castings. There, I've said it. ::)
It depends ;) what you are after anyway as CC figures are aimed at the late 14th/ early 15th century whereas the Foundry/Perry twins Barons war is early 14th. If you're using them for fantasy though that shouldn't be an issue.
I'm really partial to the Medieval/Brettonians that the twins did but the other ranges that were originally released by citadel are stating to show their age a little. Still lovely though.
The Claymore figures are lovely little bits of sculpting. Some of Mr. Hicks best.
Also, if you stick to the English billmen they all come with weapons. ;)
-
I also prefer Claymore Castings. I think they're hands down some of the best minis available at the moment
-
Coming from a different angle... Claymore's figures are new and part of an expanding range, while the Foundry ones are now as they will always be. Even on the remote chance that the Perrys were to go back to it for Foundry, their style has moved on and they would look different in comparison to the originals.
-
I have never understood the love for Foundry. I´ll guess its because I switched from 40k relatively late comparison to many here, and they bare no nostalgia to me.
To me Foundry seems like an old giant trying to lean on post achievements locked away in their own world, while Claymore casting is a new company with fresh ideas and new sculpts.
The world and miniature design has moved on and Foundry is standing still.
So with those words… Go Claymore.. :)
-
Claymore Casting get my vote to !!!
They are stunning sculpts that are a real joy to paint, and they are chaper to buy theb Foundry, at least for me that order to Sweden, I sorry to say but I haven´t bought a mini from Foundry for the past 15 years due to their high cost and high postage.
The Claymore minis might not be that Fantasy so if you want fantasy medieval minis the GW Bretonnian (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/landingArmy.jsp?catId=cat440014a&rootCatGameStyle=wh) (plastics also gives you lots of conversion options) might be the thing or the GameZone Feudal Knight range (http://www.gamezoneminiatures.com/tienda/en/50-feudal-knights) ?
Good luck in the hunt for the right minis fro your project, pleas tell us whatyou decided for.
Best regards Michael
-
I'm certainly thinking of mixing some of the Claymore figures in with my 5th edition Bret force just for some variety...they are amazing figures.
Anyone have comparisons with the Brets?
Cheers,
Blue
-
Just an FYI, Foundry has rereleased some of their WoTR packs and are selling them at 3-for-2 (amounts to 30% off) along with some ancient germans and babylonians. Just check the latest post on their homepage, as the deal only applies to the packs mentioned - looks to be 10 packs from their WoTR stuff.
I am not too familiar with the Claymore stuff, but it looks to be of nice quality. Price point looks pretty comparable to foundry.
-
I guess that's pretty unanimous! I'm glad I'm the only indecisive one around here. Thanks all!
The Claymore minis might not be that Fantasy so if you want fantasy medieval minis the GW Bretonnian (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/landingArmy.jsp?catId=cat440014a&rootCatGameStyle=wh) (plastics also gives you lots of conversion options) might be the thing
This is part of my continual planning (read: constant dithering) for an A Song Of Ice And Fire - which isn't that fantasy anyway (apart from giant wolves and ice zombies) - prompted by some excellent projects here on LAF. :) I had a look at the current Brettonians when I first thought about it a few months ago (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=33209.msg541780#msg541780), and my reaction, in one word: "yech!"
... I've gone off Fireforge serjeants too. Decent enough, nice price, but IMO weaponry's too limited, and too many of the poses remind me of Sean Lock's impersonation of Madonna's dancing.
Timbor: I'm thinking 14thC (Claymore) for House Stark and other northmen, and WotR for the more affluent House Lannister. I saw the Foundry offer - thanks for the notice - but I think I'll plump for the Perry bros. latest sculpts for the latter.
-
I guess that's pretty unanimous! I'm glad I'm the only indecisive one around here. Thanks all!
This is part of my continual planning (read: constant dithering) for an A Song Of Ice And Fire
Timbor: I'm thinking 14thC (Claymore) for House Stark and other northmen, and WotR for the more affluent House Lannister. I saw the Foundry offer - thanks for the notice - but I think I'll plump for the Perry bros. latest sculpts for the latter.
I'm working on a similar project. We should compare notes off line. I should receive Claymore Scottish pike any day now. They fit my vision for Stark "livery" troops, which I'll use for Saga and Dux Brit conversions. In both rulesets there are 3-4 classes of troops: elite, warrior and levy (Dux Brit also has small units of skirmishers), which in my scheme equate to knights, men at arms and levy.
I could go on but I'll save that for my posting over the weekend when I have some pictures of my project.
The one thing I'll say here is that my vision for this project is to make the factions look unique and "historical" but mix models and parts to shift the silhouette.
For example, to my eye, Greyjoy raiders cannot end up looking like Vikings. So, I'll swap heads and shields with Fireforge Templar knights - adding traveling cloaks - and they'll look like raiders but not cut-n-paste viking.
-
I can't recommend Claymore any more than i do and im also proud to do the flags and shields for them.
I have loads of them that David gave me as i want to do them as Baratheons for King Roberts Rebellion. The New Percy would make a Great Young Robert. I have some Antlets for him and all i need now is a good sized War Hammer.
-
I'm thinking 14thC (Claymore) for House Stark and other northmen, and WotR for the more affluent House Lannister.
There's also the Perry's 'Agincourt' range, so if you were going for a gradual 'ageing' from South to North, you could have Perry WotR for High Garden and co., Perry 'Agincourt' for the Lannisters and other middle bits, then Claymore for the Northerners.
I have no idea what you'd use for Dorn... but if Claymore plan on producing 'Islemen' at some point, they should be just fine for Greyjoys. Alternatively, surely there's a fantasy range out there which features 'sea boots', cloaks and other non-viking types that would do? Anyone?
:)
-
Funny to see that so many people have had the same idea :D
I'm one of you actually! I've painted up some 40 Claymore Castings pikemen to use as House Stark, I'm in the midst of gluing the Claymore Knights and painting up Hotspur as Robb!
I'm going to use the Perry WOTR as Lannisters and Baratheons and their Agincourt miniatures as Tullys.
Anyway, I can't recommend the Claymore miniatures enough, amazing sculpts!
-
I'm with Arlequin and plan to add Claymore castings figs as characterful Northern Bannermen, and have Perry WOTR for Lannister and other Southron Bannermen. I've seen Dornish troops represented on other threads by El Cid style Mozarabs and Gripping Beast Feudal Spanish etc.
I also have some HYW by Black Tree Design who offer some transitional HYW Medievals at reasonable prices.
In plastics others have successfully merged Gripping Beast Vikings with Perry WOTR arms, heads and misc equipment to make passable Feudal/HYW Northern Bannermen. No doubt about it though Claymore Castings will be featuring heavily amongst us ASOIAF gamers!
-
So, what rules are people using for their ASoFaI gaming?
I have the Saga boards from Frank in Germany, who was my inspiration for my project.
However, I'm really inspired to translate Dux Britanniarum as Dalauppror has done with 14th c. Sweden.
I think the light campaign series of raids leading to battles that claim provinces could capture the flavor of what's described in GRRM's books.
For starters, I'm creating Stark, Lannister and Greyjoy. Greyjoy will be played as Dux Brit Saxon raiders and the other two as Romano-Brits.
TFL has indicated they'll be releasing a supplement for inter-kingdom warfare/campaigns, which I'm hoping will work nice for a "War of Five Kings" campaign.
-
I'm going to use a slightly modified version of Silent Invaders "By Arrow, Bill and Sword".
They are simple enough to get my friends playing fairly quick and give good look on the tabletop.
-
I'm with Arlequin...
Whoah there! I'm not doing ASOI&F... GM kills off characters quicker than I could buy them, let alone paint them... lol
I was just making a suggestion. :)
However, this thread and all the contributions you guys have made, has got me thinking. But this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_First_Law) is more my cup of tea. Nevertheless many of the same things apply as are suggested here, so keep the ideas coming.
:)
-
First Law (and subsequent works) rocks.
However, it's GRRM's description of houses, sigils, mottos that lend his work to tabletop experience.
-
I'm working on a similar project. We should compare notes off line.
From the looks of things there are so many of us doing this, there should be a public topic to compare notes. :) This one could almost be it, but it's horning in on the RL medieval board, a bit.
Still, I could happily babble on ceaselessly for ages before I actually start anything, myself.
For example, to my eye, Greyjoy raiders cannot end up looking like Vikings.
I never really saw the Greyjoys as vikings either. I don't know exactly how I saw them, but not as vikings.
The New Percy would make a Great Young Robert.
Not to sound ignorant, but the new who?
There's also the Perry's 'Agincourt' range, so if you were going for a gradual 'ageing' from South to North, you could have Perry WotR for High Garden and co., Perry 'Agincourt' for the Lannisters and other middle bits, then Claymore for the Northerners.
In my own head, the Neck provides a pretty good barrier between north and south, so I might go a little more 'either or'. Partly because I've agonised over Perry Agincourt too and, shock horror, found them wanting. Partly casting quality, partly all the rolled-down leggings with the trots...
Also, I'm going to use the Dark Sword GRRM range (http://www.darkswordminiatures.com/shop/index.php/miniatures/george-r-r-martin-masterworks.html) as a rough guide. Tywin and Jamie Lannister, and Loras Tyrell are all in armour that seems WotR-like to my untrained eye. With a little conversion maybe, and moreso than the Starks, anyway.
I'd possibly bulk out northern knights with Perry WotR men-at-arms, though, with a few more conversions.
Funny to see that so many people have had the same idea :D
I'm one of you actually! I've painted up some 40 Claymore Castings pikemen to use as House Stark, I'm in the midst of gluing the Claymore Knights and painting up Hotspur as Robb!
:D
In plastics others have successfully merged Gripping Beast Vikings with Perry WOTR arms, heads and misc equipment to make passable Feudal/HYW Northern Bannermen.
Frank's single House Mormont Impetus unit? That's what got the ball rolling for me. :)
So, what rules are people using for their ASoFaI gaming?
I'd really like to try Kings of War with something (ASoIaF, Warhammer background, anything) but I might need to build two armies myself and hold a few demos to get some interest. The thing that's holding back my ASoIaF collecting so far is I don't know who to play with. I'm in one club that likes mass combat, but historicals; and another group that likes fantasy, but small skirmish games.
The people posting in this topic make me wish there were a few less seas and borders in the world! But at the mo I might take a look at Hail Caesar fantasy conversions too. The club's hooked on that series of rules, and I just got into the relevant yahoogroup.
However, it's GRRM's description of houses, sigils, mottos that lend his work to tabletop experience.
The first time I saw this map of Westeros (http://www.geekologie.com/2011/07/07/westeros-large.jpg), I thought "I gotta paint up some knights in some of those colours."
-
Vermis,
You sound like a brother from another mother: "happily babble on ceaselessly for ages before I actually start anything"
This weekend, I'll create a blog for Westeros related projects like this one - both as motivation for my project and, hopefully, an aggregator of others' ideas for related projects.
A link to my inspiration here:
http://tabletopdeutschland.wordpress.com/2012/07/30/ein-lied-von-eis-und-feuer-lannister-miniaturen/ (http://tabletopdeutschland.wordpress.com/2012/07/30/ein-lied-von-eis-und-feuer-lannister-miniaturen/)
You can find links there for PDF boards to use the SAGA system. Which would be large skirmish with you might attract your fantasy-player friends. (Of course, you'd have to obtain the Saga rule book if you don't already have it.)
As I shared, I'll toy with that but I'm more interested in converting Dux Brit. I'm also thinking about using Hail Caesar for larger battles. And since it cost me nothing to spin ideas, I'm even toying with Warmaster Ancients/Medieval in 10mm for massed battles with resources here:
http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?board=25.0 (http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?board=25.0)
Some of the Perry Agincourt are not fitting - the rolled hose that you mentioned (too cold) but also the English leades with the iconic demi-bascinet with padded roll, which screams Henry V to m. Again, it's all about mixing and matching figures and even parts across figures to achieve a look that feels historic but doesn't visually map to a real historical silloutte.
-
I've kind of got two GoT projects going on in 28mm and I've just started one in 15mm too, I can never quite find what I'm looking for. I started with a bunch of BTD fantasy Men of Averaign as Starks, then used a few HYW Perry's as Tullys and Now I'm using Peter Pig WOTR as Lannisters. All bases covered. Although I'm not quite happy with any of them and I can never quite put my finger on why. I love the books and it's their aesthetics that I'm going for but then I think that the series muddies the water and confuses my own thoughts and then I get frustrated and move on.
Figures that I have, and would use, although I am sure that there are many others, include:
Front Rank - HYW/WOTR
Perry - HYW/WOTR/Europeans
Claymore
Kingmaker
BTD - Fantasy/HYW/Crusades
Fireforge
Really need to plow on with the ones I have on the go. Each stand is so close to being finished but I always stumble at the last hurdle (usually shields and basing) and give up.
-
Vermis,
You sound like a brother from another mother: "happily babble on ceaselessly for ages before I actually start anything"
This weekend, I'll create a blog for Westeros related projects like this one - both as motivation for my project and, hopefully, an aggregator of others' ideas for related projects.
:D
Looking forward to it.
A link to my inspiration here:
http://tabletopdeutschland.wordpress.com/2012/07/30/ein-lied-von-eis-und-feuer-lannister-miniaturen/ (http://tabletopdeutschland.wordpress.com/2012/07/30/ein-lied-von-eis-und-feuer-lannister-miniaturen/)
Oh yeah, that's the stuff. :) One of my inspirations too.
Although I've noticed for the first time that his Starks have pikes and Lannisters have bills. My German extends to 'Ja' and 'Nein' and little further: does he give any reason for that?
I've had one or two thoughts about using 28mm for skirmish and 10 or 15mm for mass battle. Both might be little easier on the pocket, at least (not my biggest concern, but still a concern!) and I have heard a lot of good words about both SAGA and Dux Brit. I think skirmish could also be a hook into larger battles, but I might have to break a minor rule and lend some books out too. (Things I lend tend to magically disappear, or come back looking like they've had an accident with a sandblaster...)
I've also had a look at the Warmaster lists, a while back. :) The problem there, in my view, is that I haven't seen many 10-15mm that are as nicely sculpted as some 28mm versions. (Not that I've scoured the net too thoroughly) Not so much in terms of detail, but general tidiness. I know the beauty is supposed to be in the massed tabletop effect, but I still like to pick 'em up and look closely...
-
:D
Looking forward to it.
Oh yeah, that's the stuff. :) One of my inspirations too.
Although I've noticed for the first time that his Starks have pikes and Lannisters have bills. My German extends to 'Ja' and 'Nein' and little further: does he give any reason for that?
I've had one or two thoughts about using 28mm for skirmish and 10 or 15mm for mass battle. Both might be little easier on the pocket, at least (not my biggest concern, but still a concern!) and I have heard a lot of good words about both SAGA and Dux Brit. I think skirmish could also be a hook into larger battles, but I might have to break a minor rule and lend some books out too. (Things I lend tend to magically disappear, or come back looking like they've had an accident with a sandblaster...)
I've also had a look at the Warmaster lists, a while back. :) The problem there, in my view, is that I haven't seen many 10-15mm that are as nicely sculpted as some 28mm versions. (Not that I've scoured the net too thoroughly) Not so much in terms of detail, but general tidiness. I know the beauty is supposed to be in the massed tabletop effect, but I still like to pick 'em up and look closely...
Vermis -
I'm pretty fluent in German but he doesn't give a reason for why he equipped them differently. I assumed it was just for visual distinction. Funny, I hadn't registered that until you pointed it out.
As for 10mm/15mm, I too don't find them as visually compelling either. The reason I'm drawn to them is more about style of play - massed troops / command & control. I've got a couple of test packs of Magister Militum, which are great for variety of troop types across 3 centuries of medieval styles. I was dismayed by how tiny they are. I'm now considering 15mm. However, this is a follow-on project that I won't let distract me until after I get the 28mm project off the ground.
FWIW, I find Tomasz Jedruszek's artwork directional inspiration for the aesthic I'm aiming for.
-
I could be wrong, but I'm sure the description in the books gives the Northmen somewhat primitive weapons (i.e. spears and bows), while the Southerners have the usual array of types... I might be imagining it of course.
:?
-
I don't mind 10mm myself - I have a couple of small armies for Warmaster Fantasy and Battle of Five Armies minis. Whatever other bad things can be said about GW (including and especially the prices, in this case) I think they do some of the best 10mm minis. IMO only Clibinarium's work for Pendraken matches them.
But, I've just had a look for 15mm figures and Corvus Belli's HYW look pretty good to me. Mirliton's medievals don't look too bad either. I'm getting very tempted to go that route for wee demo armies.
Arlequin: one other thing I might have to do is pore over the ASoIaF series again to take note of the different armies. I'm sure it'll be torment. ;) Although it looks like Thomas Thomas at TMP has done the same for his DB lists. Something to compare with the WM lists and my own notes...
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=282162
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=282631
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=284914
Anyway, I might slow down about ASoIaF in the medieval board here and go visit Dilettante Gamer's blog, 'til I get some minis together to show off here. It might have to get in the queue behind some ECW and WSS projects, though.
-
Vermis,
Thanks for those links to ThomasThomas's work on TMP. I had not seen those.
I like his thinking on the subject of translating Westeros to the tabletop.
I welcome you over at the blog!
Today's goal will be to post pics of my Stark conversions.
-
I'm using Armies of Arcana as the rules and seeing how it goes as a skirmish set and using individually based groups of about a dozen or so figs. Thus a single house / raiding party would be anything from 8 to 16 figures plus a leader, and when combined together with 3 or more houses / clans would make up forces of anywhere between 50-100 figs a side.
I see the Ironborn precisely as Vikings, particularly their use of armour but relatively impoverished lifestyle - which speaks mail clad troops to me. Particularly when characters like Victarion are singled out for using plate. Claymore wins hands down iin terms of 'period' feel for me for Northern Bannermen. It is only economics that makes me bulk out the troops with Perry plastics and add a smattering of metal HYW and feudals.