Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: 6milPhil on 08 February 2013, 04:45:44 PM
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GW gets heavy handed?
"British company Games Workshop, well known for producing tabletop wargames and other products set in various fantasy universes, has claimed that it owns the idea of future space marines and that nobody can write books featuring astro-bootnecks* without its consent.
Last December the company succeeded in getting the novel Spots the Space Marine removed from Amazon's Kindle e-book store on the basis that it infringed on trademarks held by Games Workshop. These trademarks are based on the company's Warhammer 40K fictional far-future setting, which it uses in various products. These include tie-in novels depicting the exploits of the space marines of that universe, also known as the "Adeptus Astartes".
As any reader of science fiction will know, the idea of future space marines is a staple of the genre and was commonly used by writers from the 1930s onward - well prior to the existence of Games Workshop and the creation of the Warhammer 40K setting. Examples include the space marines described by such sci-fi giants as E E "Doc" Smith and Robert A Heinlein*, plus others too numerous to list here."
Rest of the story: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/07/games_workshop_in_spurious_space_marines_claim/ (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/07/games_workshop_in_spurious_space_marines_claim/)
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The news travels quickly, eh?
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=50443.0
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Love the thread title, Phil!
Best to be careful, eh?
lol lol lol
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I'm not sure and I don't know where my old rules are. But I think the term space marines was use in the old Star Guard rules, published years before Games Workshop or even Citidal existed.
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Nice to see the mainstream news picking up the story.
@ Herby: The claim is particularly spurious, because in this case any reader of classic SciFi would be able to provide at least a dozen examples of the term's use before GW, without spending so much as an hour searching.
I think it's actually funny to realize that way way back in the very beginning a lot of GW's original ideas were little more than thin plagiarisations anyway! Most of the original WHFB is ripped off wholesale from Tolkien/Moorecock/etc. And of course we're talking about the fact that space marines predate GW by as much as 50 years.
I'm not actually mad about that, mind. A lot of fantasy companies and worlds get their start like that and after some time and evolution the good ones do find their own identity.
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I think it's actually funny to realize that way way back in the very beginning a lot of GW's original ideas were little more than thin plagiarisations anyway! Most of the original WHFB is ripped off wholesale from Tolkien/Moorecock/etc. And of course we're talking about the fact that space marines predate GW by as much as 50 years.
from Encyclopedia Britannica, Volume 45, printed 2411:
When in 2391 Aliens attacked earth, human civilisation was an easy target, because no military was allowed to have Space Marines*, beside GW ... and their armour-suits were not only made of plastic, but (even more problematic) only 28mm in height.
GW broke after beeing forced to pay for rebuilding the earth.
Well, I am sure, if need be, this licence will be killed.
best wishes
DK
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It is nice to see the GW attitude towards IP getting a bit more mainstream exposure. Of course they're not defending the concept, just the name, which they registered as a trade mark twice.
The first time it was accepted in 1992 and it was only for games:
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/domestic?domesticnum=1461715
The second time it was accepted in 1999 for paints/alloys/devices/papers/clothing/lace and finally games again:
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/ohim?ohimnum=E392886
The most interesting category has to be "Lace and embroidery, ribbons and braid; buttons, hooks and eyes, pins and needles; artificial flowers.". I wonder what they were planning.
Anyway, if in the end "Space Marine" proves to be too 'normal' to put a trade mark on I wouldn't shed a tear.
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Spack Morons?
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Spack Morons?
:D
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I dunno. It isn't like people don't try to ride GWs coat tails.
http://www.frothersunite.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=38643
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I must admit I find it fascinating how wide spread this has become. No doubt simply because it involved amazon as a 3rd party and because it involves books in general which is a far larger demographic than wargaming or miniature collecting ... not even the whole of the wargaming community cares about the chapterhouse law suit, but knocking literature that is much bigger.
I dunno. It isn't like people don't try to ride GWs coat tails.
One persons "coat tail riding" is another persons "offering something the competition isn't".
To be honest it is a good thing that ideas and general concepts aren't protected. All those amazing "not-x y or z" figures would be gone, all the weapons and vehicles, perhaps even the clothing, on historical and modern figures would be gone, unless you got official permission from the companies who manufactured the real versions of those items, own the rights to those characters and so on.
And I'm sure a fair few of those characters or items would never have existed in the first place as they were amalgamations or modifications of pre-existing things.
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It is nice to see the GW attitude towards IP getting a bit more mainstream exposure. Of course they're not defending the concept, just the name, which they registered as a trade mark twice.
The first time it was accepted in 1992 and it was only for games:
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/domestic?domesticnum=1461715
The second time it was accepted in 1999 for paints/alloys/devices/papers/clothing/lace and finally games again:
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/ohim?ohimnum=E392886
The most interesting category has to be "Lace and embroidery, ribbons and braid; buttons, hooks and eyes, pins and needles; artificial flowers.". I wonder what they were planning.
Anyway, if in the end "Space Marine" proves to be too 'normal' to put a trade mark on I wouldn't shed a tear.
Cosplay costume copyright? Ridiculous.
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I dunno. It isn't like people don't try to ride GWs coat tails.
http://www.frothersunite.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=38643
oh ffs give it a rest you fakkin plum
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oh ffs give it a rest you fakkin plum
Oh, I dont know...THAT Frothers thread nearly killed me.
I was in fits, and I still had ten pages to go.... ::)
;)
EDIT: Correction. I only got to page 18.
There is a whole lot more on there now.
Off to catch up!
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I dunno. I guess there are three kinds of people in the world.
People who call Marcus Fenix a Space Marine because he looks a bit like a Space Marine. People who don't realise everyone calls Marcus Fenix a Space Marine because he looks a bit like a Space Marine. And wide boys jumping up and down at the thought of being able to sell EVEN MORE GW knockoffs.
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I dunno. It isn't like people don't try to ride GWs coat tails.
http://www.frothersunite.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=38643
In the same way Occupy Wall Street was riding on Wall Street's coat tails...
If you can't extricate the term 'space marine' from GW's imagery; don't want to; get unreasonably angry when others do; and labour under the bizarre misapprehension that the Frothers comp theme is going to result in a bunch of Scibor-style knockoffs, that's your problem.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaYonB4G40c
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Indeed Scurv
Please keep your rants to frothers, Dezmond.
You've already made yourself look a complete sparrow over there and this is not the place to be repeating the same nonsenses. :-[
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Cant you keep your anti frothers diatribes ON frothers Dez? This is not FU-UK its LAF. I dont care what they are doing to you there and I dont want to have to hear about it here. If you dont like their forum dont go there. Let them do their frothing in peace instead of some multi forum crusade regarding your opinion on why they are stupid and wrong and you are smart and right.
that, although we don't want him either, he seems more of a TMP fella (although that's a bit harsh on them too)
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Just saw this - posted on Pat G - Google account;
http://mcahogarth.org/?p=10661
(http://mcahogarth.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/banner-mcahogarth.jpg)
Though it was worth sharing.
Tony
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Well, if GW wanted to make MCA Hogarth well known and sell more of her books, they seem to have succeeded admirably.... :D
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Thats not fair. We just dont want vented spleen spill over. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas n all that. Same for TMP stuff, they can do their TMP things on TMP and keep it over there. Or Dakka or Cool mini or any of the other ones.
Unless its cool projects with lushious pics or really funny stuff or anything else that could fall under 'too cool.'
agreed. (we're still not taking him back though) :D
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So, in closing, and in the hope that it will be seen as stating my opinion and not trolling,
While the wider public may not realise that when people refer to characters like Marcus Fenix
(http://cdn.ripten.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/marcus-fenix-gears21.jpg)
This version of Turok
(http://guides.gamepressure.com/turok/gfx/gallery/large/Screenshots/turok_03.jpg)
and The Doomguy
(http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/Nerdkiller/DOOMGUY.png)
as Space Marines, it is because they share a number of stylistic features with this guy
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Xl1IqppzGak/TjAnTVVWxGI/AAAAAAAACVk/klQGzrsDWbg/s1600/jim_burns_space_marine.jpg)
we, as wargamers, know better. And as such, and given just how much form we have as a hobby for borrowing other peoples creative works without asking (of which GW is a fairly good example themselves), it seems a little churlish to try to jump on this bandwagon.
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You just couldn't leave it alone could you :-[
Clearly you have no respect for this forum or its members.
For the very first time on LAF, I am missing a button to block posts from another member - well done.
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I dunno. I guess there are three kinds of people in the world.
People who call Marcus Fenix a Space Marine because he looks a bit like a Space Marine. People who don't realise everyone calls Marcus Fenix a Space Marine because he looks a bit like a Space Marine. And wide boys jumping up and down at the thought of being able to sell EVEN MORE GW knockoffs.
Can someone PM me (Fer sure ::) don't post it here,) an American translation of whatever the Hell that is supposed to mean? ???
Gracias,
Glenn
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Having seen a C&D from GW for someone producing SPICE marines
Part of it is that most of the time when I hear someone complaining about getting a C&D from GW it is for consciously doing something they knew they deserved to have GW send them a C&D letter for, like trying to sell knock off Space Marines. And I tend to think 'have you considered not ripping off GW?'.
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Why the heck did they want to call them Spice Marines anyway? Fauxlex watches are the opposite of cool.
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Like workerBee I didn`t understand the meanig of this posting. (And most of the rest of this thread I`m afraid.)
So I don`t understand what this discussion is about. Because of my understanding it seems stupid to trademark a general term like space marine. This is like space ship, space invader, space cowboy ect. lol
Just another "funny" idea from GW.
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Like workerBee I didn`t understand the meanig of this posting.
well, i've been following it since a few, and still i'm not getting why all the people got upset. Clearly gw is going too far, but still everyone seem a little overreacting for the cross-forum posting, isn't it?
anyway, i think that this (i'm not refferring to the flame lol) is a dangerous precedent for all the small authors or producers. bad, bad GW.
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secondly because it was a set of female figs that looked like the spice girls wearing the rig similar to the marines out of aliens wore. Spice girls that are marines = spice marines.
It is clearly a play on Space Marine though.
(For that matter, Spice Girls wearing Aliens Costumes? Original!)
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nicked from Frothers...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOrdOl6xoRc&feature=youtu.be
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If you do that and come back I will happily debate it with you.
I think it is highly unlikely that they were not thinking about Space Marines when they called them Spice Marines. In fact, I would suspect that is the joke. So they could have avoid any problems by not making something intended to evoke someone else's stuff, be it Space Marines, Spice Girls or Aliens.
I dunno. People wouldn't think it was kosher to put out a family game called Monopoly or Twister or Scrabble would they? Even if those are common words.
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So what if it was a pun on space marine.
Well, like I say I don't think enough people consider making something that isn't obviously derivative of GW product.
As for the pictures, if you do a spot of research I suspect you will find that the most common non-GW usage of Space Marine is to apply to characters who look like that, who are called Space Marines less because they are Marines in Space and more because they, yknow, look a bit like Space Marines.
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You cant like every post people post or indeed every person that posts. You can still be civil about it though.
You are quite right matey and apologies to all if I came across as incivil in the face of buffoonery.
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(http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/nahrung/e045.gif)
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Oh dear :(.
It's started here as well.
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I'm not getting involved in the underlying debate at all, and gave up after about 18 pages on Frothers (well, stopped reading, I had given up several pages before that o_o).
However, a link I saw the other week seems appropriate - How to deal with internet arguments (http://laughingsquid.com/comic-flowchart-on-how-to-deal-with-internet-arguments/)
Anyway, substitute any language you choose for the final award, it's the utter pointlessness of the whole debate that I took from the chart, although I wonder if posting this means I fail the first leg... ;D
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Oh dear :(.
It's started here as well.
Although reading THAT thread on Frothers was a good laugh, it did get very boring after a while.
Not sure that it would do anyone any good to have it all repeated here.
I would suggest that no one else replies or refers to HIM on this subject, or even better, we stop talking about it altogether.
:D
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or even better, we stop talking about it altogether.
:D
Good idea. Topic locked.