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Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Atheling on 18 March 2013, 05:19:16 PM

Title: Battle of Fornovo Heraldry??? Help Needed!
Post by: Atheling on 18 March 2013, 05:19:16 PM: Hi,

I have recently embarked upon putting together a demo game for the Battle of Fornovo 1495.

One of the main stumbling blocks that I have encountered is the seeming lack of information as regarding the heraldry of the said combatants.

Does anyone know of a source, be it online or in book form that may prove to be usefull?

Here's a list of the protagonists (and what I have so far, which you will see, it not a lot!)

Frederico Gonzaga, Duke of Mantua (I have his coat of arms)

Pietro Duodo

Gianfresco, Count of Caiazzo

Fortebraccio de Mentone

Annibale Bentivoglio

Antonio of Urbino

Gambara of Brescia

And the French

Marshal de Gie

Englebert of Cleves

Bailli of Dijon

Charles III (obviously France modern)

Count de Foix

Any help really would be greatly appreciated. And when the demo has taken place rewarded with a painted mini of your choice (you supply the miniature)

Cheers,
Darrell.

http://darrellhindley.co.uk/ (http://darrellhindley.co.uk/)
link (http://lajourney-bedford.blogspot.co.uk/)
http://gewalthaufen.blogspot.co.uk/ (http://gewalthaufen.blogspot.co.uk/)
link (http://justaddwater-bedford.blogspot.co.uk/)
Title: Re: Battle of Fornovo Heraldry??? Help Needed!
Post by: Sirolf on 19 March 2013, 06:53:16 AM: Hey Darrell, I believe I can help you out with some of the Italians.

This is the heraldry of the Da Montone family:
(http://www.montonein.it/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/stemma_montone.jpg)

This is Braccio with his retinue:

(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/el_paquito/braccio_zps20c1c4e3.jpg)

This is the Gambara heraldry (their colors would have been light blue and red):

(http://bibliotecaestense.beniculturali.it/info/img/stemmiimg/001/001-0163.jpg)
(Interesting source: http://www.iagiforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4606&start=0)

This is the heraldry of the Bentivoglio family:

(http://mtc.md/~gianni/images/Bentivoglio_stemma2.jpg)
(http://www.bolognaplanet.it/wiki/3700annidistoria/img/68-stemma_dei_Bentivoglio.jpg)

And finally, I am not sure who you mean with Antonio of Urbino. Is it Antonio da Montefeltro?
Title: Re: Battle of Fornovo Heraldry??? Help Needed!
Post by: Atheling on 19 March 2013, 10:36:40 AM: Quote from: Sirolf on 19 March 2013, 06:53:16 AM
Hey Darrell, I believe I can help you out with some of the Italians.

You might just have saved my bacon and that of the Fornovo project as well! I can become a veritable anorak when it comes to Late Medieval warfare and there's nothing quite like finding out the heraldry you have lovingly painted onto a banner or standard is in fact incorrect!!

Thanks for all the information you have supplied, I'm sure that it will all come in very handy. I like to complete any command bases with the banners/standards painted on before I move on to another base/unit.

Quote
And finally, I am not sure who you mean with Antonio of Urbino. Is it Antonio da Montefeltro?

Possibly. The only references that I have at present are the Osprey Campaign, Fornovo book and the The Great Italian Wars 1494-1544, Battery Press booklet, The Art of War in Italy, 1494-1529, J.F. Taylor, The Art of Renaissance Warfare, Stephen Turnbull and finally The Condottieri, Geoffrey Trease. The last three volumes, possibly with the exception of the Taylor essay don't really touch upon the battle in any detail and certainly lack any information touching upon heraldry! Oh, nearly forgot, add to the above the Oman, Art of War in the Sixteenth Century too.

Thanks,
Darrell.
Title: Re: Battle of Fornovo Heraldry??? Help Needed!
Post by: cdr on 19 March 2013, 05:23:13 PM: Hello

Darrel mail sent.

The Bentivoglio arms shown here are for the Modena branch of the family. You need the Bologna line for Annibale II Bentivoglio

Carl
Title: Re: Battle of Fornovo Heraldry??? Help Needed!
Post by: Sirolf on 19 March 2013, 05:56:04 PM: Quote from: cdr on 19 March 2013, 05:23:13 PM
Hello

Darrel mail sent.

The Bentivoglio arms shown here are for the Modena branch of the family. You need the Bologna line for Annibale II Bentivoglio

Carl

Would the bologna one be this one?
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Coa_fam_ITA_bentivoglio.jpg

Source: http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annibale_II_Bentivoglio
Title: Re: Battle of Fornovo Heraldry??? Help Needed!
Post by: cdr on 19 March 2013, 06:15:58 PM: Hello Sirolf

That's them !

Carl
Title: Re: Battle of Fornovo Heraldry??? Help Needed!
Post by: Sirolf on 19 March 2013, 06:58:01 PM: Quote from: cdr on 19 March 2013, 06:15:58 PM
Hello Sirolf

That's them !

Carl

Great! I had my doubts when first posting... :)
Title: Re: Battle of Fornovo Heraldry??? Help Needed!
Post by: Atheling on 19 March 2013, 08:22:03 PM: Quote from: cdr on 19 March 2013, 05:23:13 PM
Hello

Darrel mail sent.

And very happily received Carl. I must offer you my thanks in putting together the info. for me. Top of the class! 8)

Quote
The Bentivoglio arms shown here are for the Modena branch of the family. You need the Bologna line for Annibale II Bentivoglio

Noted and saved :)

Thanks to all who have contributed- if there's anything else, please do keep it flowing :D.

Darrell.
Title: Re: Battle of Fornovo Heraldry??? Help Needed!
Post by: Sirolf on 20 March 2013, 01:53:10 AM: Is the information sent you by cdr regarding the Italian side? Because I could be interested as well...
Title: Re: Battle of Fornovo Heraldry??? Help Needed!
Post by: Atheling on 20 March 2013, 07:41:08 AM: Quote from: Sirolf on 20 March 2013, 01:53:10 AM
Is the information sent you by cdr regarding the Italian side? Because I could be interested as well...

Both Italian and French (once again thanks!). However, I'm certainly open to more information so please do feel free to contribute 8).

Darrell.