Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: Alcidas on April 21, 2013, 02:11:38 PM
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hi everyone
so i have recently started building an adobe house out of papier-mache - the house itself is getting on nicely, but there is a major problem with the board :'(
i used the back of a picture frame (not the frame itself but the hardboard bit at the back, where you take it out before putting in a print or a painting - that was a mistake (should probably have used MDF) because it is now warping slightly - not a great deal but enough to be noticed when you place it on a flat surface -
if anyone has any suggestions on how to deal with this, or if there is any way I might be able to straighten out the base I would be very much obliged...
(http://www.greenleafdollhouses.com/forum/uploads/gallery/album_6239/gallery_31136_6239_128925.jpg)
more pics of the house here
Musa Izly Cantina (http://noquarterbattles.blogspot.co.uk/p/the-musa-izly-cantina-papier-mache.html)
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How thick is the original board you used? If it's not too thick can you attach it to another board to straighten it?
Ok so the building may be a little raised from the tabletop but Malamute uses quite thick MDF boards for his adobe buildings and it looks good.
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hi thunderchicken
thanks for the suggestion. the board itself is about 3mm high - i had considered cutting the base to just the area around the house then pasting the whole thing on to a larger mdf board, but this would really be a last-ditch option as I plan to eventually add the whole thing on to a much larger 4' by 6' diorama and want to keep the extra heights to a minimum
if at all possible i want to keep it to just this base...
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Are you sure your frame backing isn't MDF? Certainly looks like it ;) I've had good success with coating the underside of warped MDF bases with watered-down PVA glue. The PVA contracts when drying, and should warp the base back in the original position.
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Applying battens on the underside might help?
http://www.google.se/search?q=apply+battens+to+warped&client=safari&hl=sv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=tvhzUa63MOaC4ASvw4HwCA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=672#biv=i%7C2%3Bd%7CJzm036LFI0oTaM%3A
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Either apply PVA glue to the back and let it dry to "pull" the board flat again, or try thin batons.
But personally I would consider just glueing the whole lot down to thicker MDF as I usually find once thin wood has warped its pretty much stuck there, that's my experience anyway. :?
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Thanks guys for all the input - lots of options there -
the base came off the back of a picture frame - you know the backing bit at the back of a picture frame before you put in a print or a painting - I dont think it is mdf because it feels like a slightly different consistency from the MDF bases that I have for my larger models but I m not really sure what it is -
i have managed to flatten it back by wetting the underside then placing it on the table with heavy weights on the sides to force it back into a flat position -
eventually this piece will fit into a 4' by 6' diorama that I am planning of a settlement so it will eventually be stuck down to a larger base (not sure what to use for this, was thinking of mdf but i am afraid this might warp -
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the usual procedure is to glue strong long fibre paper on the underside with a good water-based glue and this will build up a counter-tension and straighten the base. And next time don't use paper and carton based material ;)
usually paper pulp is available that You can mix with plaster
this doesn't build up tension
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...next time don't use paper and carton based material ;)
usually paper pulp is available that You can mix with plaster
this doesn't build up tension
aw but it was so much fun playing with papier-mache again, made me feel like i was back in kindergarten...
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papier-mache is when You tear the paper to pieces
if You leave them as sheets they will build up tension
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The backing stuff in picture frames is usually fiber board, personally I wouldn't use it for backing terrain as I find it to absorbent and light.
Glad you got this fixed, presumably you will be sharing pictures of your Diorama in the future :D
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@Smillie Will do, although it will probably be pretty shoddy compared to the stellar stuff the people on this forum do...
yes fibreboard does not seem like the best option for backing - what would you recommend?
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papier-mache is when You tear the paper to pieces
if You leave them as sheets they will build up tension
it is papier-mache - we tore the pieces up before sticking it all together, soaked in paste
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You could always just fill the visible gaps with Milliput or similar, so it appears to sit level on the floor.
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sorry, sorry
I did not make myself clear
I meant this (paper pulp)
(http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/paper-craft-magnet-1.jpg)
there was a misunderstanding between the different meanings when used for technique or the actual material, sorry
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ah so former user did you mean that using paper pulp would be much better because there would be less tension involved? might try that, how do you pulp it?
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in hardware stores or with professional suppliers, You can buy a stuff called "Makulatur" in german, that is basically shredded paper with glue, it is mixed with water to the desired thickness, and usually used to undercoat walls before putting wallpapers on (egg cartons and similar packaging is made of it). If You mix it with plaster it gets very hard and stable.
alternatively You can use finely shredded paper from an office that does this, mixed with wallpaper glue. I sometimes use flatter portions of the cartonage wetted with water for instant moulding, for instance when I want the interior shape of something, a boat e.g.
the advantage is that it will not warp, but only shrink a bit and keep the intended shape.
fiberboard for bases is not a good idea, unless in small sizes
I understand MDF is a good option but others have given better advice on that matter
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Do you think MDF would work for a very large base (1200mm x 1800mm)?
thanks for that makalatur tip by the way, i will see if we have any equivalent in england...
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this is not a base, it's a gaming table ;)
I suppose yes, however it might be a bit heavy to handle with all the stuff glued on top?
there are people around here who can give better advice cause they built something of that size.
But since You ask - I have done that size and it worked without warping, but I would advise smaller modules for better handling.
In my case it was an architectural model, so a bit different, but it could not be broken up into portions
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yes i might want to cut the size down a little, maybe 4' by 4' instead (about 1200mm by 1200mm) - specially because that specific size does not seem to be carried by most suppliers i can find online - but the aim is to build a small settlement, so kind of like an architectural model...
did you use mdf for your architectural model? what thickness did you use?
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2cm, but that's too thick for tabletops
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2cm, but that's too thick for tabletops
Probably weigh a ton as well!
What would you suggest? Maybe a 6mm thickness? or would that be too thin?
What about hardboard? Does that warp more easily than mdf?
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4 or 6 mm plywood with 2-3 battens on the backside is a good option
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why not make it modular?
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Thats a good suggestion actually!
Dont know though, somehow it feels less epic...
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have You thought about the fact that You might have to move it through doors? ;)
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Probably weigh a ton as well!
What would you suggest? Maybe a 6mm thickness? or would that be too thin?
What about hardboard? Does that warp more easily than mdf?
I've stopped using all these materials for building bases in favour of the wooden cork-backed table place mats you can get. The warpage on them, if any, is the slightest I've ever enjoyed. You need to roughen up the top to give a good glueing surface, but that's easy enough.
Using papier mache is likely to always be troublesome though because of the amount of water involved.
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have You thought about the fact that You might have to move it through doors? ;)
I have actually. Sideways and through the door. Although, since its more of a diorama than a gaming table, we will only be moving it around if we have to move house.
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I only use fiberboard/hardboard to base small terrain. Iīve found that if the base is going to be larger than 5 square inches they tend to warp a little. Donīt worry nor give up, messing around is a part of the learning process. Maybe next time try to avoid too much water on the base.
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Buy some cheap-ish clamps and hold the thing down to a table-top for a few days. Add something heavy for weight at strategic points. Usually forces any warping nonsense out of the base for me :)