Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: Troublemaker Games on May 01, 2013, 12:49:19 PM
-
Hey Chaps,
We've got a little 28mm scale Arabian themed scifi infantry project going on:
Youtube Promo Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mNS_AG4-Mhc)
If you want some, or just more info, here's our Indiegogo Link (http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/28mm-scale-light-infantry/x/1434646).
(http://d2oadd98wnjs7n.cloudfront.net/medias/784109/pictures/full/20130430070004-anim0000.jpg?1367330407)
-
Are these a deliberate attempt to reproduce Tallarn desert fighters or is it a complete coincidence?
The render work looks fairly clean (apart from the feet) but I see nothing new to interest me.
Just out of interest, why didn't you choose to make something original? The skills appear to be there.
-
Are these a deliberate attempt to reproduce Tallarn desert fighters or is it a complete coincidence?
It's an example of convergent development. You do Lawrence of Arabia themed scifi troopers, you get something like these guys.
"Fremen" style troopers would also look much the same.
why didn't you choose to make something original?
Noone's making decent quality space Arabians right now.
-
quite nice but not enough variety to really interest me
-
What kind of variety are you after?
We'll be adding a lot of variety as we get funded - leaders, heavy weapons etc.
-
Could you give an indication of scale against Pig Iron figures perhaps?
-
Leaders heavy weapons etc is exactly the sort of variety I mean ;)
-
I don't have any pig iron figures I'm afraid, but that's a standard 25mm slottabase the early prototype figure is standing on in the painted photo.
Leaders & heavy weapons will definitely be happening if we can get the basic riflemen funded.
I've attached a preview of the squad sergeant arms for you (WIP, some more detail yet to be added).
Also on the "leaders" plan is a junior and senior officer, they'll go up as a squad of 5 figures* when the riflemen are funded, most likely at the £900 point.
* Set contents likely 3 sergeants, 1 junior officer, 1 senior officer, cost the same price as the riflemen.
-
Not too keen to be honest. Far too close a concept to a certain Nottingham based companies desert world guards and the weapons are a smudge too much like las guns and las pistols. Plus the feet are rather too big...
-
I must have really big feet, heh.
Here's a video spin of the Squad Sergeant:
Squad Sergeant Preview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKWjRPpttvY&feature=youtu.be")
-
<snip> Plus the feet are rather too big...
Insulated boots, perhaps?
Gracias,
Glenn
-
<snip>
I've attached a preview of the squad sergeant arms for you (WIP, some more detail yet to be added).
Also on the "leaders" plan is a junior and senior officer, they'll go up as a squad of 5 figures* when the riflemen are funded, most likely at the £900 point.
* Set contents likely 3 sergeants, 1 junior officer, 1 senior officer, cost the same price as the riflemen.
"Pistol" (I am assuming) seems over large and the sword... well... somewhat... "Fantasy Super-sized Sword" looking.
I found the riflemen adequate looking in the still (not running video at work...) if not overly appealing.
Looking for Light Infantry for my counter-Bug forces so it was interesting.
Gracias,
Glenn
-
the sword... well... somewhat... "Fantasy Super-sized Sword" looking.
What's funny is that it's smaller than most! lol
It's also WIP, so could easily be reduced in scale if that's the popular opinion.
-
I like them, and currently looking for some Fremen-esque miniatures so these would do nicely! FW Tallarn are nice but they cost more and I'm not seeing any actual troopers on the link below. Plus they'd probably blend anyway.
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Tallarn_Desert_Raiders (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Tallarn_Desert_Raiders)
-
Looking nice, but 2 of the links you've posted don't work.
-
What's funny is that it's smaller than most! lol
It's also WIP, so could easily be reduced in scale if that's the popular opinion.
Smaller than most what? It's ridiculously large.
"Convergent development" might fly if the Tallarn hadn't been around for 20 years or so...
Other than the weapons and the odd feet, I think these are decent. Hard to see a lot of detail though. Might serve you to post some close up stills of the figures with and without their arms in place.
~Eric
-
The sword would put me off - rather more Fantasy than Sci Fi for my taste
I will keep an eye on the kickstarter though and see how things develop.
Good luck with the project
-
Boots are insane, all I can think of...
(http://cdn-static.cnet.co.uk/i/c/blg/cat/gadgets/red-drwarf-tech/red-dwarf-technologies_3.jpg)
If these were dressed in the full-length arab robe, I think they'd be distinct from... you know, and certainly more interesting to me.
-
Looking nice, but 2 of the links you've posted don't work.
I've fixed the Sergeant video, which other one was broken?
-
Smaller than most what? It's ridiculously large.
Smaller than most "chainsaw swords" for 28mm figures.
That must make most of them absurdly large. :-)
Still, I'll reduce the size based on your feedback. :-)
Other than the weapons and the odd feet,
I'll fix the sword, and I think armoured boots are awesome. :-)
I think these are decent. Hard to see a lot of detail though. Might serve you to post some close up stills of the figures with and without their arms in place.
I'll get that done tomorrow.
Cheers Eric.
-
To be honest they're ok, but really need those extra troops - support weapons, command, etc to work. Also having seen the difference between renders and the physical reality I always now want to know what it'll look like in reality first before splashing any support behind it.
The chainsword doesn't work for me either. GW chainswords are just daft and any who's used a chainsaw knows that they wouldn't be great weapons (who knows why they insist on using them in zombie films either - they'd just get snagged all the time). I'd prefer a 'power simitar' type thing.
Otherwise you're more talented than I am, and a great start. I'd suggest workings little more on them first though.
-
Would rather see something more similar to a crysknife than a GW nonsense knife, no use for that at all!
-
Smaller swords and boots would be nice, yes!
As for the similarity to GW...well, to be honest GW pushes out minis on generic concepts with real life influences, so it's pretty hard to avoid similarity. Someone doing generic "not-Rambo" style miniatures (tank top, headband, fatigue pants) would immediately be accused of ripping off Catachan jungle fighters, for example.
-
I agree with that but the very first thought I had when I saw the miniatures wasn't "oh look at those Laurence of Arabia inspired miniatures" it was "Why has that Tallarn got overly large feet and a rustic lasgun?"
The design cues from the Tallarn are obvious... the large curved shoulder pads, the length of the over coat... etc...
It matters not to me whether people choose to ignore it or carry on the practice but this is obviously a case of redesigning a Tallarn.
And to say 'Sci-fi Arabians are not being produced today' has no bearing on whether it is an original idea or not. Being first decides that.
Many people have achieved profit on the shoulders of giants so I guess this is just another one.
-
A bit too derivative for me...and I can't believe I'm saying this, but the old GW were actually less ridiculous.
Chainswords and las pistols...pass. :?
I prefer a genuine product which just happens to be used as a proxy for the popular games. I'm not a huge fan of purpose-built proxy miniatures.
-
It is very difficult to be wholly original. I have not seen the GW? figures referred to so could not really comment on the likeness.
I think you guys should give the sculptor a break. Although I have some reservations (see previous posts) they are pretty good and I would certainly like to see a fuller range produced.
-
To be honest they're ok, but really need those extra troops - support weapons, command, etc to work.
That'll definitely happen if we get past the initial funding target, even if I have to pay for the costs myself. I've got some great ideas for support weapons sketched out that I'll be working on soon.
Also having seen the difference between renders and the physical reality I always now want to know what it'll look like in reality first before splashing any support behind it.
That's why I also included a photo of a matter printed model on the pitch page, to give an idea of what they'll look like (albeit that model has less detail because it was an early prototype - no cloth folds on the legs, slightly different gun design, etc.).
The chainsword doesn't work for me either. GW chainswords are just daft and any who's used a chainsaw knows that they wouldn't be great weapons (who knows why they insist on using them in zombie films either - they'd just get snagged all the time). I'd prefer a 'power simitar' type thing.
I'll be swapping out for something a bit more crysknifeish, most likely, and "power scimitars" for officers.
Otherwise you're more talented than I am, and a great start. I'd suggest workings little more on them first though.
Eh, half the rationale behind running a crowdfunding campaign is to garner loads of feedback so that the stretch concepts are done right, IMO.
-
I have not seen the GW? figures referred to so could not really comment on the likeness.
I think you guys should give the sculptor a break. Although I have some reservations (see previous posts) they are pretty good and I would certainly like to see a fuller range produced.
The GW figures they're talking about don't look entirely dissimilar, but that's inevitable if you want to do dune/arabian-inspired troops really. Same thing with rambo/catachan, german WII troops/death korps of krieg. There's no historical or scifi archetype GW hasn't played with at some point in the last 30 years.
GW's figures are OOP, in any case, so it's not like I'm even setting up to compete with them.
-
Here's a couple of high-res shots, with a smaller Chainscimitar.
Will be doing Toothblades too, for the more Fremem-esque aesthetic. :-)
-
I would suggest providing the figure openhanded with the scimitar seperate
-
I would suggest providing the figure openhanded with the scimitar seperate
I've scribbled that down and will pass it to my trolls.
-
I would suggest providing the figure openhanded with the scimitar seperate
Then I/you can sell the sword on Evilbay...
Regretfully the sword, less so the boots, and less so the mega pistol just are off-putting to me.
Since these designs really don't appeal to me I think I am going drop off the thread at this point. Good luck on your project.
Gracias,
Glenn
-
Good luck on your project
Thankyou!
Here's an energy weapon concept render.
-
I can only echo what others have said on here. The proportions on the weapons are too big for my likings. Then trying to dismiss that there is any link to GW's Tallern's by following it up with the latest concept of what basically is a plasma gun.
I'd personally make the basic trooper rifles look more stripped back and basic. Have a look on google images for a more middle-eastern styled flintloque rifle which tend to have a styled stock. Remove the flintloque mechanism, add in am energy pack/battery - perhaps on the side of the gun rather than underneath, plus maybe a foregrip and a new muzzle - that would be a bit better. For individual sculpts some could have their guns partially covered by material. Try to keep it a little more in scale with the troopers.
As others have said, go a bit smaller on the boots, they are too clunky and draw the eye too much.
There is potential here, if these are pushed on a bit more.
Good luck either way.
-
I'll definitely be making the boots a little smaller.
As to the rifle size, scaled up it'd be 46 inches long, and a US army M16 is 40 inches long, so it's not greatly oversized.
I don't disown that there are plenty of past inspirational elements here. In the case of the energy weapon, I had a careful eyeball at DooM and it's Plasma Gun. Ribbed casing is awesome.
Thanks for the comments. Perhaps as the campaign continues I'll swing a few opinions. :-)
-
It is very difficult to be wholly original.
Are you the same guy who went on frothers and wouldn't back down from the position that anyone who so much as wrote the words 'marine' (or any tough, muscley, military type) and 'space' on the same page was a filthy thief of GW's IP?
they are pretty good
Jings. o_o
-
The chain weapons are stupidly big. To deny they're a trip of Tallarns is really quite amusing. lol
-
there are a lot of questions....
but first things first
GW-like? my ass! GW makes almost everything generic, so make anything SF with a arabic headdress, a futuristic weapon and a knee length tunic and people will call it tallarn. GW is very good at claiming they invented everything and also pretty good at making people believe so sometimes, apparently
so let's dump that and be done with it.
on the sculpts...
It appears that You worked with scans or something. Your figures are very close to real life proportions when it comes to clothing and body proportions. It is not unsual for military boots to be oversized, but whatever You pasted on them CG wise is a bit too much, as are the weapons. The recent trend of making figures closer to real life proportions is good, but then You will have to make the other stuff smaller too. If You want to stay closer to the GW style (in this case it is actually them to have started that in the 90ies) You will have to follow with the heads and hands and also put more volume into the cloth.
As a side note, it might be only my impression that this forum is more historical oriented and quite anti-GW, but You will find quite often escalating discussions about anything that comes near GW 8)
the modular design....
is very interesting, but I don't understand what You actually intend to do
will the designs be cast in resin or lead? in this case moulds will have to be very precise if You want to produce the figures as kits.
Or will You offer the designs as 3D print on demand, which would be really innovative? I guess not, from what I read the margin is very small if you don't own a printer. So I guess what You want to raise the money for the moulds...
now my personal advice would be:
open hands is what people like, but it doesn't work with rifles - best here is the pistol grip concept, which is acheivable with 3D CG and slimmer weapons. For more modularity make the backpacks detachable, and vary the heads a bit.
And here comes the weird idea: vary the footwear, make some barefoot and sandals for conversion - the way the boot concept goes it would work, and it is realistic.
If You really want to avoid the Tallarn thing, desert warriors are not only "Lawrence of Arabia", "PLO" and "Dune". The French had and have an African desert army with many different troop types that is mainly ignored in the english speaking world. You will find a lot of examples and ideas if You do a bit of research in that direction ;)
Good Luck with You business and keep us informed please :)
-
Vermis
No lol
-
It appears that You worked with scans or something.
Nope. Built 'em stage by stage from scratch. I have some pre-booleaned versions saved, which I pose, then I boolean the components together, and add fine details to the surface later.
Your figures are very close to real life proportions when it comes to clothing and body proportions.
Thankyou. That's what I'm aiming for, something closer to being true 28mm scale than "heroic" scale (giant heads & hands etc).
It is not unsual for military boots to be oversized, but whatever You pasted on them CG wise is a bit too much, as are the weapons. The recent trend of making figures closer to real life proportions is good, but then You will have to make the other stuff smaller too.
There's been enough comment about the size of the boots that I'll be reducing them shortly and posting up modified copies for people to evaluate.
I stand by the rifles though. In real life the rifles would be 46 inches long, and a US army M16 rifle is 40 inches long - so oversized, but only by about 10%. By contrast a GW trooper's rifle would be 5-6 feet long in real life.
I did screw up with the size of the Chainscimitar and I'll be looking to fix or replace it.
If You want to stay closer to the GW style
I don't really. I'm not out to ape GW, I'm out to make figures in my own more realistic style.
the modular design....
is very interesting, but I don't understand what You actually intend to do
will the designs be cast in resin or lead? in this case moulds will have to be very precise if You want to produce the figures as kits.
Yup, I'll be going to the best mouldmaker I know of to get them cast in metal.
Or will You offer the designs as 3D print on demand, which would be really innovative? I guess not, from what I read the margin is very small if you don't own a printer. So I guess what You want to raise the money for the moulds...
Nah, I don't own a printer so traditional casting is the way to go.
open hands is what people like, but it doesn't work with rifles - best here is the pistol grip concept, which is acheivable with 3D CG and slimmer weapons. For more modularity make the backpacks detachable, and vary the heads a bit.
I'll consider that, especially for officers and similar. For infantry it seems best to just get the rifle right. :-)
For the heads, currently I have 3 designs: Mouth closed, mouth slightly open, and yelling showing teeth. I plan to add two more soon.
And here comes the weird idea: vary the footwear, make some barefoot and sandals for conversion - the way the boot concept goes it would work, and it is realistic.
I did vary the banding on the boots a bit, but as uniform-wearing guys I didn't want too much individuality.
If You really want to avoid the Tallarn thing, desert warriors are not only "Lawrence of Arabia", "PLO" and "Dune". The French had and have an African desert army with many different troop types that is mainly ignored in the english speaking world. You will find a lot of examples and ideas if You do a bit of research in that direction ;)
Good Luck with You business and keep us informed please :)
Thankyou for your extensive advice, I'll keep people informed, and hopefully as the design gets refined more people will be interested in joining in. :-)
On thing I want to do once the basics (Riflemen, squad weapons, officers) are out of the way is Quadbike-riders. Quads could be used to lug heavy weapons, or act together as scout squads.
-
one last remark
You will notice that "uniform" is the thing in peacetime, whereas war progressing means a lot more individuality, in every war.
You will find this in many campaign pictures.
And I think that is also what people are more interested in.....
-
one last remark
You will notice that "uniform" is the thing in peacetime, whereas war progressing means a lot more individuality, in every war.
You will finf this in many campaign pictures.
And I think that is also what people are more interested in.....
Sigh, yeah, came back. Curiosity got the better of me.
I could go for the more uniform route. I would want something like this, (caveat not that it is on my high priority list,) for regulars in near/far future combat between regulars or with these as regulars versus irregulars.
Gracias,
Glenn
-
there are a lot of questions....
but first things first
GW-like? my ass!
It is holding an over large lasgun with the standard GW pattern, lasgun muzzle...
but that is obviously generic and not at all the reason he has given his desert troops, dressed in that particular fashion, that particular style of weapon.
It matters not to me because they aren't on my shopping list but as a small time operation, I would at least be a little bit tempted to steer clear of derivative GW miniatures... even if it is just to avoid losing everything I'd worked towards as a result of a C&D letter.
On a different note, the faces look good, the folds of the head gear look good, the weapons have good details but the legs and sleeves need more work (there doesn't appear to be very much drapery/folds in the cloth... assuming it is cloth), the boots are large but the feet don't appear to be long enough (that may be an optical illusion caused by the boots) and the pouches seem to be geometric shapes rather than pouches.
I assume these are first drafts of the renders and that the various 'unfinished' bits are still to be worked on. They are a good start but need a bit of refining... just my opinion and when all is said and done... I'm just another voice on the WWW.
I'd genuinely like you to succeed though, TMG but I would be concerned that there are certain details that are a bit too close to call.
-
It is holding an over large lasgun with the standard GW pattern, lasgun muzzle...
GW "Lasguns" are a conventional rifle configuration, mine are "bullpup" (that means the magazine is behind the trigger instead of in front of it, which gives a longer barrel length on the same size of rifle). My magazines are curved rather than straight. Mine have two barrels which have interconnection bracers, and both barrels are comparatively thin. Both rifles have slanted tip sleeves, but mine finish flat before the end of the rifle instead of tapering to a point. The body shape and stock shape are entirely different. More cosmetically, my barrel tips feature iron sights, GW "lasguns" do not.
I went out of my way not to copy the GW "lasgun" as used by Cadians etc. to the extent that every major element is different and distinct.
I assume these are first drafts of the renders and that the various 'unfinished' bits are still to be worked on. They are a good start but need a bit of refining... just my opinion and when all is said and done... I'm just another voice on the WWW.
They will have more work on them done before the end date, yep.
I'd genuinely like you to succeed though, TMG but I would be concerned that there are certain details that are a bit too close to call.
Cheers, I will be looking to have more unique elements as we go along, and will be up-detailing the core bodies. Thanks for your feedback on areas that could use a little more detail or softening.
-
I stand by the rifles though. In real life the rifles would be 46 inches long, and a US army M16 rifle is 40 inches long - so oversized, but only by about 10%. By contrast a GW trooper's rifle would be 5-6 feet long in real life.
I don't think it's the length of the rifle that's the issue here, but rather the bulk. As your troopers are thinner, lankier types than GW's, the bulky weapon just looks massive if you for example compare the size of the muzzle with a trooper's head.
-
I would agree here
try making it a bit thinner. length is not the problem
The difference is that long rifles look pre WW1 or colonial/VSF
and the shorter carbine/assault rifle version looks more modern
for historical reasons that have somehow managed to imprint into our asthaetics ;)
the bulky type originates in SF movies where real handweapons were disguised in an outer cover to make them appear SF.
all starting with "Planet of the Apes". see also Alien, Starship troopers, etc
interestingly enough not Star Wars, where the look more realistic
-
Thanks for the thoughts on the rifle bulk, I'll look into it.
In the mean time, smaller boots. :-)
(http://d2oadd98wnjs7n.cloudfront.net/medias/789867/pictures/full/20130503042327-smaller_boots.jpg?1367580209)
-
here some ideas
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh445/lelelima_2009/evolution/1.jpg)
-
Thanks for the thoughts on the rifle bulk, I'll look into it.
In the mean time, smaller boots. :-)
(http://d2oadd98wnjs7n.cloudfront.net/medias/789867/pictures/full/20130503042327-smaller_boots.jpg?1367580209)
I don't know the "chained grenades" are "original" or based on historical ones but I like that detail.
Boots look better in that picture.
Gracias,
Glenn
-
Thanks for the thoughts on the rifle bulk, I'll look into it.
In the mean time, smaller boots. :-)
(http://d2oadd98wnjs7n.cloudfront.net/medias/789867/pictures/full/20130503042327-smaller_boots.jpg?1367580209)
Hmmm, the backpack...
I know miniaturization is a wonderful trend but I could only wish my backpacks had been that light!
Gracias,
Glenn
-
oh, I don't know about other armies, but in desert conditions, the armee d'afrique would march lightly whenever possible and have their stuff carried. You don't get very far with 20 kg on Your back and 2 l of water
-
I think part of the problem with the boots is that there is little in the way of 'shape' to them.
They need to be a bit narrower around the ankle in comparison to the top to reflect that the ankle and lower leg is narrower than the where your calves start to kick in.
The only boots I can think of that look like this are Wellies and Uggs but that is because they do not have laces or any type of fastening lower down.
I'd google some images of boots and have a look at their profile whilst being worn. These are quite formless otherwise. They are better for having been bulked down a bit mind you.
Also my advice would be to not sculpt the backpacks on, worry about that later and do them as extra components.
-
oh, I don't know about other armies, but in desert conditions, the armee d'afrique would march lightly whenever possible and have their stuff carried. You don't get very far with 20 kg on Your back and 2 l of water
I agree, I like the equipment but it still looks almost too light for a pack carrying "useful stuff" needed during combat - other than a laptop computer to request fire support via Windows version 327...
That, of course, ;) means he is going to eventually sculpt the unit's robotic mule you know?
Gracias,
Glenn
-
That, of course, Wink means he is going to eventually sculpt the unit's robotic mule you know?
I was thinking quad bikes & trailers actually, both for hauling equipment/heavy weapons, and for scouting.
-
The only boots I can think of that look like this are Wellies and Uggs...snip...
Ski Boots :D
-
Those boots look much better - well done!
Regarding the weapons I think it's the bulk of the weapon, rather than its length that makes it look a little odd against the slim and more naturally proportioned bodies.
Overall I think you're likely to produce a better product with a little feedback and one which you're likely to be more proud of later.
-
Bulk-reduced rifles are high on my list of things to do. :-)
-
Bulk-reduced rifles are high on my list of things to do. :-)
Yes, that will make a better figure (Well, just IMNSHO,) that should sell better.
Gracias,
Glenn
-
What happened with this project?
-
Unlike my other crowdfunder (http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/6mm-scale-armies), nobody liked it. :-)
The few pledges it's taken will be returned to their owners shortly. I did try and close the project and return the funds a couple of weeks ago, but Indiegogo wouldn't let me (they won't close a project that's had at least 1 pledge).
-
I am sorry
maybe it wasn't the right moment for this. Your idea is good. Maybe just try to give it a bit more oriental flavour and a bit versatility (like what Meridian did - although VSF troopers is like shooting fish in a barrel ;) I admit) and just give it another try a bit later.
-
Yeah, I plan to give it another go - most especially I want to have some "final quality" prints painted up next time around rather than just a single prototype. And with officers, quad bike scouts, weapons teams etc. ready to go rather than sculpting them as the campaign progresses.
I'll definitely come back to them. :-)
-
Although I did not actually pledge I was interested and would certainly consider it again if you had another go