Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: Monstrum on May 04, 2013, 05:30:54 PM
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So ... for my next diorama project I was thinking about the alternate end of the gold grabbing lizzard named Smaug ... as we all know Smaug was shot down by Bard the Bowman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bard_the_Bowman#Bard_the_Bowman) probably coming out drunk from some tavern ... the biggest disappointment of the book IMHO ... while reading the book I thought Thorin or some other dwarf will slaughter the beast but nooooooo he died from the wounds of some made up king ... blah ... so I was thinking of giving the Smaug proper death by the hand of some dwarf or at least Bilbo
snooping around the web for Thorin's gang I run across ... http://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/16488/the-hobbit-escape-from-goblin-town-is-surprisingly ... and the price was "tooo damn high" :D ... so alternate version was needed and I found it in ... http://totalwargamer.co.uk/warriors-of-erebor.html ... with some conversions made on the dwarves I have my band of dwarves ... I'll post them later when the painting is done
for Thorin will use ... http://darkswordminiatures.com/mainwebsite_html/gallery/V_7426_DwarfFighter2.html ... of course converted with elven sword and oak shield
and finally for the Smaug I will use reapers Diabolus ... https://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/Boxed%20Sets/latest/10019#detail/10019_G ... painted probably in black, highlited with gold and jewels (suggestions for the colour of the dragon are welcome) ... I was searchin the perfect dragon for two months and finally I found it
and now for some pictures ... the beginning
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Cool idea but wrong forum section.
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A VERY PROMISING START! Have FUN with the Beasty; this is going to be a FINE thread to follow.
Cool idea but wrong forum section.
I could be wrong, but The Hobbit & things related to it do fall under the Fantasy category.
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This sounds interesting.
I shall be keeping an eye on your progress.
8)
Cool idea but wrong forum section.
I could be wrong, but The Hobbit & things related to it do fall under the Fantasy category.
I think it was posted in another section when vonplutz posted his comment and has since been moved to Fantasy Adventures.
;)
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A VERY PROMISING START! Have FUN with the Beasty; this is going to be a FINE thread to follow.
I could be wrong, but The Hobbit & things related to it do fall under the Fantasy category.
Wow! Deafnala you're on here too! This is Plutz from Tom's Boring.
When I first posted it was in the Ancients section.
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Cool idea. I was really let down by the book too. A bit of a nothing ending for the big bad beastie that ad terrorised thorins family.
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sorry guys for posting in wrong section ... don't know how I missed "fantasy adventures" ???
for the dwarves I found bunch of links about weapons and all sorts details that still needs some work and I plan to present every piece of diorama before I put it all together :D ... for now it's really a beginning with an idea and some miniatures ... today I made some piles of gold for starters ... not finished yet, needs some colour on the details but I needed to know "can I do it" instead of buying it ... it turns out that I can :D
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Why was the dragon killed by a "mere" human? Chancing the wrath of all the dwarf lovers here I'd say the answer is simple: Dwarves just suck... lol
Honestly, I find the ending with the bow so much better than any slicing the beast into tiny ribbons and then having to dispose of the gigantic carcass as it lies on top of the arkenstone.
But the idea of an alternative ending is cool. That's how I often get drawn into LotR projects. What would have happened if...
The dragon model looks reall great and from what I have seen of the dwarves so do they. So good luck with this one.
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I liked the ending in The Hobbit, a bit of a David and Goliath feel to it when the big mighty Smaug is taken down by one little arrow.
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I liked the ending in The Hobbit, a bit of a David and Goliath feel to it when the big mighty Smaug is taken down by one little arrow.
One "fated" or possibly "Quasi-magical" arrow. o_o By an direct descendent of a leader of humans slain by Smaug. :o Karma, baby! lol
This is a lesser plot point than the 12 dwarves, (scared beyond action earlier in the story,) ::) doing what their greater sires could not doing when Smaug was younger and not as powerful?
Gracias,
Glenn
I think a hexapedal (4 legs, 2 wings) fire breathing worm equal or superior to T. Rex in ferocity was beyond any direct head to head melee effort the dwarves (and I love strong dwarf characters, Doomhippie,) ;) would have been capable of...
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it is indeed a long time ago that I read the book but the dwarves didn't come along as sympathetic to me nor did their "just cause".
At least to my impression then, Smaug being slain by a human who's town the dragon had torched appeared the better plot.
With the dwarves it was rather "who's greedier"....
IMHO
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well seems to me I've struck a nerve there :D and it would be great if the project would be folloved by this type of discussion
I think Tolkien made a big mistake not letting the bunch of dwarves slay the dragon ... I think he wanted to finish book fast for some reason so he let Smaug out of the cage to be killed ba a "magic arrow" from the hand of a drunkard :P
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Again, I don't remember it well, but could it be that the suspension of disbelief might had been a bit overstretched had a party of twelve dwarves achieved what a whole city of them did not manage to in the past?
Could also be a metaphor, since the Tolkien races can be viewed very metaphorically....
After all, the Hobbit is a tale for children...
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Again, I don't remember it well, but could it be that the suspension of disbelief might had been a bit overstretched had a party of twelve dwarves achieved what a whole city of them did not manage to in the past?
Yes but in the past dwarves weren't that angry :D ... my dwarves will kill the Smaug :D ... my dwarves are angry dwarves led by powerful vengeance :D
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Could be an interesting result - deep fried dwarf or bar-b-que Bilbo anyone?
Good luck with the piles of gold - I have never mastered that yellow shine but the first ones up look fine.
Way back you mentioned doing Smaug black - going by Tolkiens pictures of Bilbo in the cave, Smaug was red with a white under belly at this time - 70th Anniversary ed with JRRs drawing (http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/images/Hobbit_70th_Anniversary_Edition_smaug.jpg)
I do prefer the dragon you have selected - fits more with my heart than the long thin 'worm' style.
By the way - have you considered that Smaug was the good guy? The story was told by a bunch of greedy dwarves and one character know for being a thief?
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Could be an interesting result - deep fried dwarf or bar-b-que Bilbo anyone?
Good luck with the piles of gold - I have never mastered that yellow shine but the first ones up look fine.
Way back you mentioned doing Smaug black - going by Tolkiens pictures of Bilbo in the cave, Smaug was red with a white under belly at this time - 70th Anniversary ed with JRRs drawing (http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/images/Hobbit_70th_Anniversary_Edition_smaug.jpg)
I do prefer the dragon you have selected - fits more with my heart than the long thin 'worm' style.
By the way - have you considered that Smaug was the good guy? The story was told by a bunch of greedy dwarves and one character know for being a thief?
the color of the dragon is red, actually he's covered in gold and jewels from years of lying on them but c'mon not doing the dragon black is blasphemy :D ... I will undercoat it black with bone details on belly and bones, shading red on wings and fins and for final touch he will be drybrushed with gold on belly and lower sides of arms and legs, with few jems inserted courtesy of my darling for donating her jewelry for smashing :D
Smaug the good guy ? interesting ... I will consider it :D
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Hm, maybe Smaug was actually sent by a few smart bankers who wanted to avoid having the market overflow with gold thus causing massive inflation. Smaug was there to stabilize the market, that simple...
Hm, I'm not really a member of ATTAC, you know.
Anyway, Glen, I have a bunch of friends who are into dwarves so please don't take this banter in any way serious. You know the ususal "Elves are all gay treehole f**s. vs. Dwarves are just hobbits with an attitude." thing. But I guess you have understood it this way.
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Watch Yout tongue my friend ;)
otherwise, one day You might have a closer than You wish encounter with a double handed clutch! ;)
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OH BABY...TREASURE! Love piles of loot...you don't have to be a Vertically Challenged Grump to appreciate a golden horde. NICELY DONE!
Wow! Deafnala you're on here too! This is Plutz from Tom's Boring.
When I first posted it was in the Ancients section.
Hey, Amigo! It's good to see you here. Man doesn't live by Mordheim alone...more or less.
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<snip>
Anyway, Glen, I have a bunch of friends who are into dwarves so please don't take this banter in any way serious. You know the ususal "Elves are all gay treehole f**s. vs. Dwarves are just hobbits with an attitude." thing. But I guess you have understood it this way.
yes. :)
As an OD&D war gamer/role player I think each race has it's "role" in gaming. It's all about what role you want your PC to play. An two-handed axe wielding Elf Berserker is possible if you think out your initial character well enough and allow the character to be a 3D growing character. A poetry quoting Dwarf cleric of Peace is a one of those roles I think would be fun for a short time in a gaming situation, "Have we tried negotiating with the Goblins?" :o
Back to dwarves, elves, and other demi-humans, in one of my worlds I have a PC Dwarf I use as an NPC raised as ghetto fighter on an isolated continent where the Grey Elves are tyrannical power hungry types who live in stone cities they took from Humans and Dwarves (and still populated by them as serfs/peasants.) It really freaked a bunch of players who wandered into that situation with a bunch of "JRRT" stereotype High and Wood Elves... lol ;)
Gracias,
Glenn
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<snip>
Hm, I'm not really a member of ATTAC, you know.
<snip>
I will look up ATTAC.
Gracias,
Glenn
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<snip>
Smaug the good guy ? interesting ... I will consider it :D
It's all about the story and either of these alternatives could make good scenarios and/or dioramas.
Gracias,
Glenn
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Tolkien's writing is moral based so I think those of us who saw the dwarves as less than heroic and greedy do have a valid point of view. He also borrowed heavily from Norse and Anglo-Saxon literature as well as biblical stories so it is not difficult to see crossovers once you've read the literature.
That said it is a wonderful book and the fact that it inspired you to create this project is absolutely superb!
Hey, Amigo! It's good to see you here. Man doesn't live by Mordheim alone...more or less.
Indeed. Lately I've been stuck in historical gaming which I don't mind so much, but I'd like to get a mini Mordheim campaign in soon.
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Tolkien's writing is moral based so I think those of us who saw the dwarves as less than heroic and greedy do have a valid point of view. He also borrowed heavily from Norse and Anglo-Saxon literature as well as biblical stories so it is not difficult to see crossovers once you've read the literature.
Greed especially Mithril or Gold was always a weakness in the Dwarf "types" in literature and FRPGs. It leads them to disaster after disaster.
Depending on the setting each "race"/"species" of fantasy character has some moral or ethical shortcoming ("sins" in Christian terminology but the concept of "fatal weakness" is probably found in every culture's fantasy and mythology.)
Righteous vengeance and recovering past heirlooms stolen by the dragon becomes Pride, Avarice/Greed, and (in the followers of Thorin,) a moral failing to accept legitimate claims on the treasure (if I remember correctly it wasn't only dwarven valuables the dragon had taken.)
Gracias,
Glenn
Gracias,
Glenn
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Spot on, Glenn. You're absolutely right with your analysis.
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Righteous vengeance and recovering past heirlooms stolen by the dragon becomes Pride, Avarice/Greed, and (in the followers of Thorin,) a moral failing to accept legitimate claims on the treasure (if I remember correctly it wasn't only dwarven valuables the dragon had taken.)
Gracias,
Glenn
ergo greed and adrenaline fix will give my dwarves all the power in the world to slay the mighty beast :)
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You've chosen some marvelous sculpts to do this with. And if the work is good, then much like a well written book, people will go wherever you take them. Some will analyze and some will argue, but in the spirit of friendly debate, it will be fun. I'm a die hard fan of the original book and I'll go along with this if it's well executed.
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Greed especially Mithril or Gold was always a weakness in the Dwarf "types" in literature and FRPGs. It leads them to disaster after disaster.
Depending on the setting each "race"/"species" of fantasy character has some moral or ethical shortcoming ("sins" in Christian terminology but the concept of "fatal weakness" is probably found in every culture's fantasy and mythology.)
Righteous vengeance and recovering past heirlooms stolen by the dragon becomes Pride, Avarice/Greed, and (in the followers of Thorin,) a moral failing to accept legitimate claims on the treasure (if I remember correctly it wasn't only dwarven valuables the dragon had taken.)
Gracias,
Glenn
Gracias,
Glenn
Indeed. I was just highlighting that there was almost certainly a reason Tolkien chose to have Smaug killed the way he did, and likely a reason born out of the Bible or Old Norse and Anglo-Saxon literature as he was a fantastic scholar prior to writing fiction.
As stated before I still think this is a great project and very much in Tolkien's whole nature of being creative and developing your own fantasy.
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so let's have a first look at the dwarves ... dwarves are, as I mentioned, warriors of erebor, http://totalwargamer.co.uk/warriors-of-erebor.html , converted with few additional and versatile weapons ... so let the fashion show begin before the painting :P
Bofur ... with his loyal pickaxe and shield is wearing spring/summer collection and is carefully watched by the audience
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7307/8716159091_325e60134a.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/95537357@N02/8716159091/)
next is Ori ... slingshot wasn't going very well with his helmet so the designer decided that the first row in the battle will be filled with brave Ori wielding a spear
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7457/8716177839_9b67751ee6.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/95537357@N02/8716177839/)
following Ori is his older brother Dori wielding two blades, machette and an axe
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7452/8716176581_2e7bb41735.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/95537357@N02/8716176581/)
as you can see the crowd is getting anxious while the next dwarf is entering the stage ... Bombur with his filthy ladle is getting the crowd going
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7325/8716175503_28e9e4ee1a.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/95537357@N02/8716175503/)
greasing up the floor with filthy ladle, almost hitting the ground up came Nori with his massive mace
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7309/8716174423_849d2f330f.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/95537357@N02/8716174423/)
followed by Kili ... the crowd went wild so he had to calm them down ... Kili is presenting his beautiful sword and his bow
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7449/8717292816_73b74fa5f5.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/95537357@N02/8717292816/)
Bifur came all worked up with a wind in his hair and his beard
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7337/8717291664_1462069954.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/95537357@N02/8717291664/)
Fili made a twist with his shiny blades
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7353/8717290580_432668141f.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/95537357@N02/8717290580/)
Gloin forgot his forth axe so he had to make a superb entry
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7420/8716169127_85d8ddd383.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/95537357@N02/8716169127/)
Balin as the oldest ... broke his hip
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7363/8717287480_26b94fbd96.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/95537357@N02/8717287480/)
Dwalin couldn't decide what to present ... his giant hammer or the axes so he brought both
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7340/8717286284_00d3066790.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/95537357@N02/8717286284/)
Oin came with his loyal staff
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7371/8716165733_f018429f75.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/95537357@N02/8716165733/)
and last like the cherry on top leader of this crew ... Thorin Oakenshield with his elven sword and oak shield
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7455/8716164455_be5d8dbc4f.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/95537357@N02/8716164455/)
and then came Smaug and ruined everything ... as usual
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7411/8717282500_7b792cf29f.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/95537357@N02/8717282500/)
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Great models. Everything Looks fantastic. Quick, get them painted up!
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where is that alien model from?
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leading edge alien ... have been lurking on ebay for more of them but they're so rare to find and purchase ... every now and then comes an opportunity and when oppurtunity comes ... eh my friend :D
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lol damn. I hadnt seen that one but it had that lookof leading edge minis. Bummed i missed out on eureka chaos weasels when they had them..