Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: former user on July 28, 2013, 07:51:32 AM
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Hello interested fellow LAFers
This thread is meant to be part of the
Army Painter Challenge
earlier started in the workbench board.
The consensus reached was about at least monthly updates, but I will try to follow some rules of my own:
I will announce the unit/vehicle/contraption/whatever that is part of the army at the beginning of the month (hopefully with a picture), and I will try to have it done at the end of it and post pictures. This way I will be able to evaluate the monthly output. I am somehow a bit handicapped by having to borrow a good camera, so don’t be too surprised if reference pics I take with my cheap one are replaced occasionally. Also, be prepared for lengthy explanations about background, historical details, conceptions etc. For me a wargaming army is not only buying some miniatures and basing and painting them, it is a whole production design process. Also feel invited to ask and comment on anything You like – this whole thing is about sharing the experience. So far the procedure…
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The French Foreign Legion 1910-1950
Shall be the theme of my army – which is a bit unusual, because certain units will not be able to deploy together if historically used.
Confusing? Yes I think so....
let's start with the bones
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/riflesquadA05.jpg)
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/riflesquadB03.jpg)
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/riflesquadC02.jpg)
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/riflesquadE03.jpg)
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/CSPLsquadF03.jpg)
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/cavalrysquadF01.jpg)
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/Staff-1.jpg)
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/ArtillerysquadB00.jpg)
as You can see, this is a motley collection of Renegade, Artizan, Foundry, Old Glory, and it is not yet complete.
Woodbine, Brigade and whatever I find in the future will be added, as well as vehicles that are not yet finished, and possibly some scenery too.
The idea behind this concept is that I (hopefully) will be able to cover as many conflicts as possible in the targetted chronological slice by simply picking the units that could fit.
Expect lots of digression about details and feel invited to join in.
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and here is the first miscellaneous bit:
while considering conversions I stumbled about how different the fusil Lebel is sculpted
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/lebelFFL.jpg)
from top: Artizan, Foundry, Renegade
and the original
(http://padage.free.fr/image_521.jpg)
(http://armesettechnologie.hautetfort.com/media/00/01/1909116380.jpg)
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Good start former user!
I will follow this with great interest ;D
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Interesting project!
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Looking good mate,I shall await in anticipation :)
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Looking good mate,I shall await in anticipation :)
....and I shall be sitting right behind him peeping over his shoulder.
:D
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THX gentlemen
I am very anxious myself, I have not seriously painted in some time.
I will do this under strict discipline and balance.
So, please expect with the start of the month the presentation of the first unit to be painted, primed.
probably the second in chronological order, the Renegade WW1 french.
the first change already occurred, I will sort out the Great War Miniatures french officers. there is no use for them, they don't fit very well with the others and the Kepis are wrong....
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Hey former user,
that's a great project and a grand start. Looking forward to seeing your results.
Dimi
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Ah, the French Foreign Legion...
They've been on my wish list for years. They're so versatile after all; with a bit of imagination (and stretching of facts), they could be used anywhere in North Africa, the Mediterranean and the Middle East. At least, when considering I've always had Pulp in mind with them... 8)
I'll be following your progress with interest. You know; as inspiration to be filed for future reference... :D
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Looking forward in seeing these miniatures painted up!
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oh Yes, me too ;)
THX for the interest - it will surely help me with the output
@Daeothar
I have chosen only a certain range - You can do the other variations, we can then meet and game, Crisis for instance ;)
since I am at it:
the interested collector will notice that out of the considerable range available, I chose only certain figures
you will not see
- the buttoned up greatcoat, actually no greatcoat at all probably
- the pith helmet
- the neckcloth
- the Adrian helmet
- the midnight blue top, madder red bottom combination
currently basing the first batch, soon to be primed
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Interesting! I like the idea of covering such a wide time-span by using different bits of the force; and I may well steal the idea of posting up reference material, etc as I go along...
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I shall follow Your project too
I intend to discuss the uniforms too and choices I will make.
But all in due order . August is coming....
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perfect,i'll have a Sci-fi Foreign Legion up to paint in August (GZG FSE Platoon) ,i will gladly use your Thread as an Inspiration for all my Uniform Colors ;) :D
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don't expect more than various shades of Khaki ;)
August will be the 1915-1920 unit, since they are easiest to start with
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added one more unit to the challenge, first post
And here we go, the August is already four days old, first unit to go - based and primed:
twelve Renegade Miniatures french chasseurs, one Artizan Design NCO. For those who know the figures, the three bareheaded soldiers had headswitches, so thirteen unique soldiers for August.
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/riflesquadBg05.jpg)
I will add some more background info on the way
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Looking forward to seeing this take shape.
:D
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Looking forward to seeing this take shape.
:D
THX
Since I am not going to bore anyone with meek WIP pics, I’d rather throw in some background info about the minis and their potential.
The other ranks wear the regular pantalons culotte and tunic, albeit with a simple back-slit, not á soubise fashion. The Kepi is the covered old M1884 (or the first uncovered late 1914 versions with the war uniforms that were discontinued with the introduction of the Adrian) with the puttees dating the uniform as 1914. Equipment is the M1892 bretelles style with M1888 pouches, musette bag, boudin horseshoe roll and bidon, though not all wear them. Interestingly, the regulation would have required the musette on the right and bidon on the left for light infantry, which is how the figures are tagged – but only one wears them as such, the others wear them line infantry style – which is even better for the FFL use.
In short, the appearance dates the dollies as 1914-1920ish (maybe a bit longer, depending how long it took for the 1914 style kepis to replace the old M 1884).
A very strict interpretation leaves us with the following options:
Pants are very simple and could be anything from cachou (old colonial khaki), over bleu ciel (mécanicien), bleu horizont and the greyish transitional variants to the US tan and british khaki cloth and finally the french khaki moutarde, with all khakis in two weight variants of course.
Tunics (due to the simple skirt slit and the five buttons) can be either the M1901 colonial cachou, the transitional horizon blue variants and the transitional british and US khakis. The regulation mustard khakis would have the correct cut.
Finally the kepis could be the khaki or bleu mécanicien covered original M1884 (off-white only in North Africa) or the transitional uncovered horizon blue (and greyish variants) versions. For post war use other khaki variants of local dye would be acceptable too.
Puttees can basically be any shade available from old greatcoat or regulation issue, so basically all shades mentioned above plus the darker gris de fer. Same goes basically for musette, bidon cover and horseshoe roll, plus off white canvas.
In order to emphasize the representation of the late 1914, early 1915 period, gris de fer, bleu mechanicien and brown corduroy could be used, especially for the newly raised foreigner units.
The webbing and shoes can be either the original black or the 1915 brown leather versions with a few old ones thrown in for variation.
This leaves me with the following options:
Pre 1914 colonial style (very stretched because of the puttees which would have been non-regulation), North Africa or Gallipoli/Macedonia respectively later
Late 1914 early 1915 transitional style, western front (a bit narrow)
Late and Postwar Near-East/Anatolia, possibly also RCW in the north.
The latter is actually the broadest option (with a little stretch also acceptable for the first two periods), with the exclusion of helmets and greatcoats.
I hope you enjoyed the juxtaposition of uniform history and miniature reality.
I would appreciate comments and questions and especially correction.
a few comments on the NCO figure later
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puh
had a longish painting session today, first one of this length in... years
happy that it worked (my eyes haven't got better over time...), managed to get into a frenzy :D
which is comforting, means I can carry on
never was a fan of painting eyes, but I am afraid this boat has finally sailed away...
a note on NCO and officer figures for the french
the Artizan range offers an impressive amount and there are also a lot from other manufacturers.
French commanders are easy, because there were a lot of freedoms with uniform choices and one can use figures from both world wars quite interchangeably.
But not when it comes to Kepis, because basically every rank group had their own style/size and it was rather strictly followed.
I will try to determine rank when I come to the respective figures
plus, the officer Kepi is almost always the rather stiff polo style that came into use with the Great War.
I have never seen the soft "foulard" or the semi-stiff "Saumur" style, with possibly the exception of one Renegade Miniatures officer
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good to hear you're on Track :)
Quick Question:What Colors are the Officer's Hats? (the stiff one) I've seen some Pics with Black ones ???
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what shall I say - depends ;)
but most of the time and for most of the arms the body is midnight blue, which for officers always was almost black. the top and 1cm of the body are garance, which is madder red
it gets different if You get to the light infantry, african cavalry, medical corps, marsouins etc, but the infantry was always like this, and the legion is too
oh, one small exception - the reinstated CSPL have light blue kepis, but these are covered - because these took traditions from the old Mehariste companies
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well, here we are then, August 31.....
You are welcome to enjoy, criticize and comment please
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/riflesquadB-T1.jpg)
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/riflesquadB-D1.jpg)
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/riflesquadB-D7.jpg)
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/riflesquadB-D3.jpg)
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/riflesquadB-D2.jpg)
the guy with the chechia does not belong to the unit, I painted him to test the scheme
he would be an indigen NCO of the CSPL late 30ies and even after the war in tenue de journaille
one correction on the figures - the tunic cut is indeed a la soubise, not the simple single slit at the back - apparently the closest look is with a brush in the hand....
a few remarks on the very well sculpted miniatures:
I find it puzzling that only three out of twelve have the muzette bag and only six have the bidon, but none at all has a bayonet frog, not that I would miss them or the bayonets. One of the leather straps holding the bidon disappears halfway around the body (but this is irrelevant).
The biggest mystery though is why they (inconsistently not all of them) have the square shaped old style bill/peak on the kepi. Not that it bothers me, the ones from Old Glory have it too.
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Great stuff, sir!
A great looking unit, full of character.
:-* :-* :-*
You certainly have an idea for the diorama too, they are posed in a very artistic fashion. Great use of materials.
8)
Excellent history lesson provided too.
The NCO gives us a nice 'teaser' of a unit to come.
Looking forward to it.
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THX
I decided on the CSPL "on the way" - these will take some time, since I still have to buy three Artizan Tirailleurs Algeriens. The rest of them will be the renegade legionnaires with the spahi pants and a few others. this will amount to actually two units, including vehicles and possibly camels (not sure yet on that one, haven't found the right models, and camels are bloody expensive).
CSPL is very interesting to paint since one has two sets of uniforms with all the segregated colonial mentality...
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You've done a great job with these.
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Thank You very much
so, September squad will be these 10
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/riflesquadAg.jpg)
Artizan Design compilation of pre WW1 FFL in M1903 khaki drill colonial uniform, uncovered kepis, no greatcoat.
You will notice that in contrast to the Renegade french all of them have the full kit - musette bag, water bottle and three ammo pouches.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_UqsRf118B2I/TN5lbjLAJXI/AAAAAAAAGHM/fSukVjAjKgQ/s400/mo127.jpg)
the colour scheme here is much simpler - the equipment is black leather, as are the shoes and gaiters, Kepis midnight blue body with madder red top
only one of them will have the as de carreau, there were only 10 with uncovered kepis without greatcoat, and the sample is quite command heavy (with one miniature from Renegade), but this is simply due to the variation Artizan offers
something like this
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_UqsRf118B2I/TN5eYXlpjPI/AAAAAAAAGHE/OkIik1b7gDM/s400/French%2B5th%2Binfantry%2Bregiment.jpg)
the only colour variation is in the water bottles and musette bags and whether the hue of the khaki is more reddish or yellowish
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Great going :D
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I am really enjoying the informative nature of this thread, you have me wondering about renegade legionnaires now.
8)
And camels? Gotta do camels!
:D
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I've got six chasseurs surplus to let ;) and if You shorten the rifles you can use them up to WW2 (I have actuallythought about that)
as You can see from the command figures, they are absolutely compatible with Artizan, although stylistically quite different.
please share Your thoughts and experiences about meharistes and camels in miniature
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I've got six chasseurs surplus to let ;) and if You shorten the rifles you can use them up to WW2 (I have actuallythought about that)
as You can see from the command figures, they are absolutely compatible with Artizan, although stylistically quite different.
please share Your thoughts and experiences about meharistes and camels in miniature
you might have mentioned it somewhere but I was wondering which shade of dipped you used. I think they look very nice. I Personally would have used a darker dip
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I am not sure what You mean with dipped
I used a lot of different glazes and washes from different manufacturers, all applied with a brush.
You are right, I have a bit of a problem with too strong contrasts, usually I adjust the washes with drybrushing the original colour on top - but I do not use washes on every colour as a rule
in total there were 5 different shades of brown, 2 shades of flesh and also red and 2 blue glazes
all according to the primary colour, with very little mixing because this would get a nightmare when correcting
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(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_UqsRf118B2I/TN5eYXlpjPI/AAAAAAAAGHE/OkIik1b7gDM/s400/French%2B5th%2Binfantry%2Bregiment.jpg)
Wow, where did you find this? :o
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right here
http://wargamingthegreatwar.blogspot.de/
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Excellent work on your unit. Of course with such an inspirational poster how could you fail? lol
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THX
in fact, I only wanted to inspire @Michi to join the french colonial fraction :D
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so, got a bit quiet around the army painters, but the month is running out, so ;)
btw, stay away from french style kepis if you want to stay sane...
anyway, can anyone tell me something about this picture?
I can't remember where I got it from
point is, the infantry looks french, but then what with the uhlan??
unless they are belgians.....
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and another update and question
first - this one was reassigned to a unit at least 10 years later, the uniform looked wrong, though it is not...
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/RM-WW1F04-Ag.jpg)
to be replaced with this one
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/AD-MOD001-Bg.jpg)
and finally, the two COs, the one above and the one below, have some straps around the ankles that look like spur attachments, or ist it something else? what could it be - can anyone tell?
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/AD-MOD009-Cg.jpg)
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only thing left is basing, and tomorrow after work the pictures...
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Looking forward to it.
:D
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bases are drying :D
THX
I am very curious how they look together on photos - I can see only one at a time through the magnifying glass....
close-up of course ;)
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phew...
here are the first rough crop, no optimizing of the pictures, more later
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/riflesquadAp1.jpg)
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/riflesquadAp9.jpg)
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/riflesquadAp3.jpg)
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Oooh!
They look rather lovely.
:-*
Nicely staged picture too.
I like it.
8)
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THX
must be the Corto Maltese films I saw recently that influenced the heavy tonality ;)
or I should take care more about the lighting :D
unbelievable - I just based the next unit - I must be insane
late interwar infantry unit, with Châtellerault lMG
but I am beginning to run out of miniatures....
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And a few additionals:
la Miss Susan Travers, the only ever lady legionnaire
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/PF-laMissSusanTraversp1.jpg)
an interwar officer, possibly Dimitri Amilakhvari
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/RM-WW1F04-Ap1.jpg)
and an early war artillery officer
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/RM-WW1F04-Cp1.jpg)
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and a quick description:
1906 uniforme coloniale, could be a bit lighter for my taste (must be the winter weight ;)), with uncovered kepi, not unusual, even after the Great War.
bretelles, ammo pouches and boots plus occasional gaiters are in blackened leather.
The soldiers even have bayonet frogs under the musette bag.
the NCO carries the as de carreau - although the figure clearly has officer rank cuffs, I could not imagine a capitaine carrying a rucksack....
with these Monsieur Owen simply excelled, very crisp and beautiful sculpts, a pity I can't paint them better.
the officers are often variations, as can be seen on the example below
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/AD-MOD01.jpg)
and I have to exercise to get fair skin better...
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Those uniforms are growing on me, I like the pics 'in action'.
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THX
Yes, the uniform is very different from the classical Hollywood FL. And apart from the red kepis, they could be just as well marsouins.
Swap the garance for navy blue and You are done. Unfortunately, the coloured collar patches are as off-limits for me as eyes are... maybe next year.
since I am noticing an improvement in my painting, I hope to get somewhere by the end of the army......
I will try to redo the lighter skinned faces, at the moment this is the biggest flaw I perceive. That is why they aren't sealed yet and a bit shiny.
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Those uniforms are growing on me, I like the pics 'in action'.
I really like those 'moody' pics too.
8)
the officers are often variations, as can be seen on the example below
I had not noticed that before.
Well spotted!
You have also given me an idea with your observation... ;)
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I really like those 'moody' pics too.
well, maybe I am more talented on the "selling" side of painted miniatures, but that won't get me a painted army lol lol lol
but I am already planning for the group shot end of the year, we'll see then
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well, maybe I am more talented on the "selling" side of painted miniatures, but that won't get me a painted army lol lol lol
but I am already planning for the group shot end of the year, we'll see then
Well, those pics certainly 'sold' them to me.
:D
Looking forward to the 'moody' group shot!
;)
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Coming along nicely :)
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THX very much gentlemen
so, here we go with the next month - after framing the Great War, this month a time jump to the late twenties, the Interwar period.
The wartime kepi has been finally succeeded by the M 25 and the tunic collar has now a button down shape and a loose cut that allows the shirt and tie (not worn on campaign) to be seen. Not in this case however, since the long scarf of the nomad tribes, the cheche, worn prewar by the compagnies sahariennes has jumped over to the rest of the legion and will continue until it is regulation for the whole french army in 1939.
The wartime surplus has been used up as well as all the surplus cloth of many shades, so it is now the khaki moutarde only in two weights, and general Rollet has succeeded in making the covered kepi the symbol of the legion - though it is not yet the Kepi Blanc.
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I am enjoying following this process, Eymard.
Not only an iconic army to track as it comes to fruition, but a really interesting history lesson too.
Please keep it coming.
8)
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Merci
what I lack in practical skills I try to balance out with theory :D
BTW, interesting useless fact is that the FL still likes to stick the tunic into their pants around 1930, but probably only for walking out - seen on two figures here.
Whereas the weapons - the 8mm Lebel has already started to be replaced by the Berthier rifle. Apparently 8 round tube magazine looses against 3 round Mannlicher clip. Interesting development this thing - designed as a short carbine it was used to bolster the numbers in WW1 and therefore lengthened to rifle size and later the clip was enlarged for 5 rounds. This is always visible as the metal part that sticks out under the one part stock beneath the receiver. Colonial troops received them mainly - ever seen these in model? me neither. Strange enough the FL demanded to be rearmed after 1920 with a shortened (3 round) Lebel carbine.
Strange world.... so now we have 4 (actually a few more) different sidearms when pop! in 1924 the authorities realize that the conical 8mm Lebel is unsuited for automatic fire and they need the 7.5 mm round for the new Chatellerault LMG. Which is initially too close to the Mauser 7,92 mm with disastrous consequences and had to be shortened etc.
So by 1925, we have a new LMG that closely resembles the BAR and over 4 different sidearms now being rechambered for the 7.5 mm round, all in different stages of being introduced and phased out - where has the french rifle supremacy of the 19th C gone?
astonishingly not into development hell, since they managed to turn out the excellent MAS 36, however the responsible army department was probably too busy with the other armoury and forget to order enough of them for WWII. Anyway, this topic is for a later unit...
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and now it's getting messy...
while I started to paint next months' unit, this activity gets into tough competition with my favourite hobby activity: vehicle building
because November unit is going to be a motorized one, I have to build two vehicles too so that I can paint them next month together with the crews (well, the part of it I have already) ...
alternatively, I could finish two armored cars I already started, with no crew...
how many is a vehicle unit anyway?
or simply skip the vehicles (and do them for a later month) and paint an infantry unit for november too
the latter alternative has a point since I don't have all the necessary vehicle crews yet...
Otherwise I have two interwar biplanes half finished, but these lack the pilots too, so no point in doing them either
tricky decision...
suggestions anyone?
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Go with building the vehicles and painting the infantry...that way we get to see lots more lovely paintjobs and you get your vehicles prepped too. ;)
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I gotta agree.
Think of the rest of us who are following this thread.
We want more....of everything!
:D
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since You two have gathered now ;)
right now I am leaning towards the solution of keeping up the painting pace with infantry units (which You will hopefully subsist with the foreign foundries soon ), finish the vehicles step by step and paint them when they are ready.
Unless someone has a better idea.
things haven't got better with me reasessing the Lizardmen army I have prepared years ago.... :?
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Biplanes :)
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meaning You want to see the biplanes first?
not exactly foreign legion, but by extension escadrille cherifienne, FFL officers in it
then I need the copplestone pilot figures :D
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not so moody this time, I'm afraid
don't have time for other than to document I finished
hopefully better pics after CRISIS
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Nicely done. Looking forward to the group shot.
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I see you are keeping the good work up, sir.
These look good.
:-*
Looking forward to the MKII pics after you have finished gallivanting at Crisis.
:D
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THX very much, I'll see what I can do....
plan includes one early and one late 20ies infantry unit, a WW2 mechanized cavalry unit, one large or two smaller motorized CSPL units, interwar/WW2, one mixed artillery unit 1910-1920, and hopefully some heavy MG.
and, if I am lucky, a WW2 Infanry unit or two
not to forget the biplanes of the escadrille cherifienne....
So won't be finished until at least June 2014...
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Looking forward to all of the above.
Oh. and don't forget the camels..... :D
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this would be the icing on top of the cake ;D
once I am halfway through, I might start thinking how to do that one...
right now I think I need a bit more exercise on the infantry before I get to the vehicles...
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back to the pictures:
after reading a recent post by @AlyMorrison about I-phone lenses
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=59698.0 (THX for the hint btw)
I suddenly realised that I might be taking too close up pictures of my miniatures....
I do not care much about "unfavourable" resolution, because what is the point of showing pictures if noone can judge the paintwork.
Still, there are valid considerations regarding the right framing and size that offer the best reference in terms of the painting effect...
would anyone care to comment?
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here is something to keep You interested - as I usually did a teaser to forthcoming units
here is the uniform for european officers of the Compagnies Sahariennes Portees de la Legion
to be compared directly with both FFL ranges from Artizan
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Good progress - congratulations
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THX!
just came back from Antwerp where I had a nice but exhausting time... puh
also left a bit too much dough there, but managed to pick up odds and ends from different ranges
relevant for this topic is the comparison of Perry and EBOB/Artizan camels, apart from different leg thickness exact match, means they are combinable....
and also the acquisition of the Copplestone pilot pack, which means I can at least try to do the two interwar biplanes as a bonus for december - we'll see
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and still running...
after managing the Crisis purchases etc, here adding the next unit, to be situated between the after-war squad B and late interwar squad E (last month). Made up from Renegade Miniatures (6 without hats, leftover from the older unit) and Wargames Foundry (most of FFL1, acquired courtesy of @Mason). Still clad in the M1915 tunic, shooting the fusil lebel, some of them with the post-war covered kepi and the saharan cheche.
These are the veterans that we can see in the movie "March or die", but this time hopefully in the correct gear.
Goal - trying to achieve a balance between homogeneity (two different manufacturers for the rank and file) and a rag tag appearance of wearing whatever is left in the stores. this is a key unit in establishing an optical link between early and late interwar.
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Keep 'me coming :D
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Looking forward to it, mate.
:)
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THX again, me too ;)
so, what else? I have managed to lay my hands on MOD 038, the mysterious mounted legion command pack without picture, so together with the officer from Renegade I now have two mounted legion officers....
they will be assigned to the artillery for the time being, to accompany the limbers
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In the fashion of a reflecting diary ;) here some thoughts on this project in general.
"November 11th 2013 - Slowly turning khaki blind... Now I understand why the legionnaires always had the urge to bring in different uniform orders, blue, white..... Definitely need to slip in some variation, otherwise I might end up digressing. That would be a shame! I already can't wait to see this unit finished, the fourth in a row - and it pays out, the brush flows almost by itself. But then, the SCW miniatures ar so nice and have such colour variation.... next year I'll definitely paint some. In observing what is happening with the other chums from the challenge group I need to state: always plan for a diversion! This will give You a little break"
and here something I finished inbetween
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both officers from Artizan Designs, bottom one from the MoD range, of younger make, recognizable by the slight scale jump that occured some time ago - nothing to be worried about, still fits with the others very well - since he appears to be rather tall, I thought he might represent Prince Aage or some other interwar higher ranking officer. The 1913 style vareuse makes him appropriate almost up to the thirties.
The top one from the Pulp Thrilling Tales range is very special - here something between Legion legend Zinovi Pechkov
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinovy_Peshkov
and spanish general José Millán-Astray y Terreros
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Mill%C3%A1n_Astray
(contrary to my perception, their glorious mutilations reportedly did not incapacitate them in their duties)
has been immortalized in 28mm, very colourful and atmospheric miniature, I am glad he turned out rather acceptable
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Looking good former user. I totally agree with you on the need for changing it up in between units when painting an army. I am so tired of my uniform I am painting a few of Uncle Mike's SA agents before I finish October's unit's bases. Amazingly enough the don't have any of the previous colors involved. :)
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THX and congratulations on the first delivery this month
my early 1920's unit has not called in yet, hope to get them finished by the end of the week...
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Thank You very much
-
puh, finally - managed to take a picture of the November unit, which was delayed, for various reasons
more later
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Nice work, mate.
Lovely looking unit.
:-*
It is good to see them with some paint on them.
I too am looking forward to the scenic shot.
:D
-
THX
well, with two weeks delay, who knows how I manage to finish december...
but frankly, the reason for the delay was because I felt confident enough to try another 11 figures simultaneously, which are 95% finished - but I wanted to do the two biplanes too...
Anyway, I will definitely do a group shot after christmas, with whatever miniatures are finished then, biplanes or not
- right now it is some 60
but, january will absolutely see a break, I will do a small study in african skin with my Foundry porters
afterwards it is about hardware, because I am almost done with the infantry
-
so here are the next ones I am working on, already started on them
if you care, please let me know what you think about the Belgians, they are from Brigade Miniatures
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I have those figures myself, I'll be anxious to see them painted.
I'm curious about your yellow toned pictures- Are you taking photos under an incandescent or tungsten light, and your camera is set on something else, like daylight?
We're getting close to being done, I just primed my last unit!!!
-
I have a macro studio lighting with daylight neon tubes as ambient and a few daylight spots for highlighting, and my camera is set on automatic
-
the following WIP I took today in true daylight
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Nice work, mate.
:-*
The two horsemen are my favourites, they look truly good, even at that size!
I wish my painting could suffer that kind of scrutiny.
8)
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The two horsemen are my favourites, they look truly good, even at that size!
Yes, very nice!
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THX gentlemen
I just made a note to picture them from the side, so You can scrutinize them better :D
I have painted horses before, but not that many, and I always have reservations because I seem to "know" that "horses make a lot of work"
these did not, the details of the harness are not that many or even minute, and the bodies were a carefully chosen base colour and then simply glazed over, albeit a few times with different shades and focuses, so really only the experienced eye.
Therefore I pledge it is rather the excellent Ebob sculpt that makes them look good (I like them too), because I don't have much skill to display on that "au naturel" paintjob ;)
Unfortunately there won't be a mounted cavalry unit, lest Msieur Owen decides to re-release his Chasseurs d'Afrique with exchangable heads
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Fine progress :)
-
THX again
@Bezzo, if I understand what You mean to say, although "Beau Geste" was written after WW1, it narrates the legion before it. What I try to accomplish is something on the opposite side of the "Beau Geste", because although the blue coats, white garments and neckcloth did exist, I perceive this style as an artificial filter of the legion that I try to get away from (a good hint to this artifact is this style being reiterated for so long that it pretends that a uniform style persisted for some 50 years, which is totally unrealistic). My version on the other hand filters it completely out, or anything that recalls it, and therefore is also unrealistic, even if on a smaller scale.
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I did not mean to lecture You, sorry, just to explain myself :)
I simply took the opportunity to reflect on the legion mythology
on a different note, it is a nice gesture from everyone commenting here to acknowledge my
nice quest which is trying to accomplish so many things at the same time
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::)
this would indeed surprise me, since I was not able to go to the sources due to my insufficient french.
Beyond producing a reasonable FFL army I could game with, and reactivating my painting skills, and hopefully improving them....
in the "disguise" of authenticity,
I am attempting a reflection at how we wargamers perceive and construct historical representation.
-
I enjoy the project you picked. I certainly never knew the FFL wore anything but the blue and white that is so typically depicted and romanticized. I have historical tunnel vision as much as anyone :)
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THX for commenting
we all have the tunnel vision, that is my point.
We pretend to "know" and having researched and what not. And even if we went to the source and the record is good, we are still interpreting.
Of course the FFL is iconic and everything, but look at how the medial image of WW2 has developed in the last 50 years for example.
So, apart from having the miniatures painted and enjoying when someone likes them ;),
the point of communicating this in a forum is to encourage the awareness that right and wrong is fluid and suggesting how to go about creating a wargaming army.
I must confess that I did not start with the FFL in mind when I first bought the renegade chasseurs, I wanted something to create the czech legion.... ;)
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not exactly my point...
let's stay with the FFL as example - prior to WW1, the legion had been employed not only in northafrican theatres, but also elsewhere on the continent and in Asia etc. Many units depending on many types of logistical chains wearing very different kinds of uniforms. How is anyone to eyewitness all this? How is all of this to be recorded and the records made available? How is anyone to sculpt and make available such a multitude of different miniatures? I mean, Mr. Owen is really trying hard, seriously :)
impossible.
But these are questions for military history or historical archaeology, not for the wargamer.
The wargamer is like some kind of movie director who wants to recreate a certain feeling, at least IMHO.
Since (back to our example) the FFL (or the Wehrmacht, British Redcoat whatever) has got a bit of a medial overcoverage, and moviemaking is more often about money (meaning saving on research and wardrobe), the legionnaire has become the guy with the blue greatcoat and the white neckcloth.
And that is what the wargamer wants and what he gets. OK, nowadays the wargamer wants the historically accurate and the sculptors are competing, but they have to make a choice as we have too.
My point is that we have to be aware of the fact that we are creating by making choices (when it comes to historical wargaming) and we should not poke out each other's eyes with discussions about an accuracy we cannot achieve.
too much talking, sorry, the paint is drying ;)
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I mean, look at me - loudmouthing about researching uniforms but still not a clue how to represent the free french FFL without having to restrict on a certain theater.
Only french available are for France 1940 and four miniatures (inspired by a propaganda photo) for North Africa.
Very little authentical pictorial evidence, no miniatures to represent them and a few vehicles....
And i don't want to use British....
btw, good ideas are welcome....
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right, nothing for some time
I finished my december goal yesterday, yet have to take proper pictures (not to talk about the promised group shot of 68 figures)
anyway, I have almost run out of figures, so I am on to conversions, for which I could need some advice
please
so, here are four headswaps, Foundry versus Renegade, slightly different proportions
so please indulge me and tell me your oppinion whilst you wait for the painted ones ;)
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I wouldn't know they were headswaps unless someone told me- they look very well done to me. These types of sculpts can get away with slightly off head/body proportion, unlike the recently trendy 'slim' figures like Infinity.
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Nothing wrong with those fellas, mate.
I am with the Doc: I would never have if you had not said.
Seamless.
8)
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Yup, THX
I might make comparison pics with the originals, but I basically agree, I only wanted to be sure.
So, a lot of cutting and glueing upcoming . the next test will be shortening rifles
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here we go, all finished
the infamous mounted (artillery) officers, early GW
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/IMG_0133.jpg)
my current interpretation of compagnie saharienne portee de la legion, 1940ish and later
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/IMG_0137.jpg)
and some GW Belgians, painted up as pre- and early GW french, not 100% convincing
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/IMG_0142.jpg)
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They look great, I think you've improved since the start of the army.
My only criticism is the basing, the grains of the sand seem really large. I feel for the horses :)
Maybe sift through a strainer?
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hmm...
the minimalism is intended
the bases are actually different colours of sand and crushed quartz in different grainage, the finest already very fine
worth improving the concept, I agree
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hehe :D
it is actually real Sahara sand, collected by me, but from the eastern Sahara...
but Matt is right, they really look a bit chunky and are concealing the feet a bit.
and thank you for the flowers, I am happy that some improvement is visible.
from my POW I perceive an improvement in the control of the paint, I (re?)learned a few things.
And the perseverence....
as for the project, it is on hold for now, but I will continue posting plans and thoughts...
more later
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The latest additions look wonderful, sir!
:-* :-* :-*
They look great, I think you've improved since the start of the army.
There is no doubt about that at all.
These latest offerings are very good indeed.
Very good!
Practice makes perfect, eh?
:D
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Well thank you very much!
perfection lies in the eye of the beholder...
I simply try to have painted miniatures ;)
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I think the Belgians are my favorite of the new addition. Great work.
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THX
I will let it settle a bit and then start my own discusion about the miniatures. I find it remarkable how different from the pictures I perceive the real paintjobs - I shall experiment into this as well
one hypothesis:
the two group shots show seven miniatures both, same lighting and set up.
While the belgians are all one manufacturer (brigade miniatures btw), painted in a restricted palette (the rank and file have two tones for pants and tunic - does it show that they are switched for half of them?), the officers are a bit darker, all are shaded in the same technique with thinned dark washes (this is the bit where I learned something new) and all done in the same batch;
The saharan group are about variation - different techniques, uniform styles, two different manufacturers and four different ranges, and all done at different times.
the Belgians jump me too as being very coherent looking, so I understand now better why some people prefer their collection from one manufacturer.
I however remember them as being a real pain in the behind to paint, with messy undercuts, unsatisfactory detail and the paint peeling off, so maybe this is where I improved. I wouldn't call it turd polishing right away; they really have nice proportions, very good and natural dynamics and a good period representation, but I have painted better sculpted (or better molded? or cast?) miniatures.
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OK, so - as I said, I am taking a small break from the project. I have to step back a bit an reassess:
I can conclude the following: While there are plenty of regular french for WW1 and WW2, for whoever wants to collect interwar FFL that is NOT Beau Geste Narrativium style there are a few problems to face:
No infantry support weapons. The heavy MG are from the Woodbine and GWM ranges, and there are a few lMG from Artizan. No artillery, armoured cars, cavalry or whatever. Sure, no harm in gaming the Western Front FFL, with greatcoat and Adrian helmets etc, but here the unique character of the legion simply vanishes in the mud.
Yes, Askari Miniatures FFL is a nice effort, and will be great when they settle for human anatomy (which works great for their other ranges, I wonder why?)
So essentially, the 28mm Interwar FFL stays a pre-GW infantry force. It's up to improvisation.
here is my current idea of how to continue:
GWM and BG have nice artillery crews with Kepi, these will be fine, and I want those 6.5mm Mountain guns. I will have the Perry ACW plastic artillery, the limbers will be just fine, the carriages might do for Hotchkiss revolver cannon, and the artillery crews could work for rank and file staffers. I will see what can be done with the available hMG, and Woodbine also has some interesting other figures too to fill in.
I will get some early trucks and cars for the portee infantry.
I might even make some legion camel troops to complement the small unit I started. The Artizan Tirailleurs Algeriens look just the right stuff for it.
And I have some leftovers to chop up for even more infantry.
Eventually, Lon from BG might actually cast the Legion packs he has had for some years, but this is again - infantry.
I will continue to elaborate on my ideas for WW2, because in this field I have to put up with five miniatures or so.....
But I already have some nice vehicles for them
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It's definitely a problem getting figures when your into niche periods others are not. Lon say why he wasn't casting the other legion infantry up? Just not enough demand?
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I understand that he is busy with other things and does not have enough time. I contacted him months ago and he promised he would cast them, but I don't want to nag him too much ;)
I also could understand that the demand does not justify the investment - but the sets are the best I have seen so far for late interwar and I don't see the point of spending a lot of money on sculpts and then not casting them (or am I wrong and the major investment is not the sculpting, but the molding?)
And I would not say that Interwar Legion is a niche - every pulp manufacturer does have a few in their range, the legion is a major trope in any desert pulp game and there is no other unit in the world that has been portrayed in so many movies, I am really surprised they did not appear in the Indy franchise...
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:D that being my point, btw a rather accurate depiction, apart from the egyptian ruins in the desert controlled by France....
did they simply forget Libya?
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I've just seen this post ...fantastic !
i will follow it seriously!!
best regards
paco
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thank You very much - I noticed that You read it for some time, greatly appreciated!
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here is a possible solution I came upon:
since I have a few leftover doubles and I was already about to headswap them (see above), I might even try to shorten the fusil lebel to the R35 carbine size
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/4180/lebelcarbiner35rk4.jpg)
which is 3/4 the size of the rifle. Which might even work since the sculpts are rather thick.
this would also solve the problem of incorporating the Old Glory legionaires
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/riflesquadC02.jpg) of which I have only 5 into a larger unit.
Another problem is that they actually are a bit of a fictional hybrid, with pre 1930 tunics and post 1930 kepis...
I shall try cutting the rifles at the barrel band
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back to practice after a bit of theorizing
here is the latest bunch done with the Lebel conversion (and some head swaps too again)
to be combined with the above Old Glory ones (but I got better casts of these now)
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I see - I understand but I actually found him refreshingly different from the others
here the example for scrutiny, from left to right painted original to final conversion
the body is renegade miniatures, the head is foundry
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so, in general, as we can see, everyone who can hold a brush and paint can do simple conversions (You need a drill obviously and a sharp knife), and obtain astonishing results. The miniature looks totally different. One thing I actually realised recently (although I had done head swaps many years ago), is how much we can alter the appearence of the sculpt by simply lenghtening or shortening the neck. For instance, I could very well reposition all Renegade Miniature heads and a few of the old Artizan ones too (if I happened to be such inclined or that much anally retentive ;)), but all I wanted was to fabricate unique miniatures, and I also happen to like to preserve the work of the sculptor because I am a collector too.
So, another immediate experience of this project is that instead of complaining about the miniatures we'd like to have and don't get, we can just as well assess how much effort it takes to simply convert the features we want and then do it. See all the threads that do this (@Mason or @Captain Blood are very good examples here). How much easier is it today with all those plastics? If the effort exceeds my skills (or the time I am willing to invest), I shall simply buy something else but otherwise shut my yap and enjoy the wonderful plethora of sculpting styles the talented ones undeservedly present us with all the time :D. I mean, remember the time when we had command packs and unit builder packs with one posture to make up our armies? (hello Wargames Foundry and Pulp Figures 8))
Discussing and comparing the sculpts however is something different. In this particular case (interesting how I get to pick up a theme I introduced nine pages earlier), the best rifle sculpts in all the ranges I encountered in this project to date are the ones in the hands of the Foundry legionnaires by far - as anyone can see, they even allow for the real-life barrel shortening and still do the "suspension of disbelief" thing. Thank You whoever did these (by the head proportions it might have been Mark Copplestone??) and please do some more (unless You already did and I am unaware of it ;))
Hopefully, when I wrap up the project (Camerone Day is coming closer...) I will be able to report the "best of" experience to the ones interested, because a few of the manufactureres/sculptors are yet to be ogled.
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You are spot on with the idea of repositioning heads.
A lot of difference can be achieved with that.
For instance, you could just change the angle of the head (carefully with pliers and something between to stop the imprint of the pliers on the face) can be quite effective.
A head angled down creates a whole new perspective.
Try it.
;)
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still chopping time
here I replaced the original heads with the interesting confederate heads from Kromlech.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--aOIREl7388/UnJMmKvDCKI/AAAAAAAADtE/7vS2r7wGtow/s1600/31+oct+2013+008.JPG)
that miraculously fit both Foundry (2 on the left) and Renegade (2 on the right),
at least I think they fit.
all four reinforcement for the pre WW1 section, that was a little bit thin on the ground
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Interesting and clever idea to use those heads. I have some myself, I like them quite a bit.
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Interesting and clever idea to use those heads. I have some myself, I like them quite a bit.
Indeed.
And a great result.
8)
Now I know exactly why you were after the VSF Kepi heads.
I wondered why you did not use them.
Were they too small?
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exactly, too small
they might be just right for Perry plastic 8th Army, but this is something I won't try out anytime soon.
Right now everything falls into place very neatly.
I have another unit almost primed to go and a few reeinforcements for the other ones.
And then some 40 more to buy and not a final clue what to with WW2 or vehicles, so....
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You're way too kind
:)
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... a stunning project! :-*
I like the quantity and quality of historical background informations you are introducing in this thread!
I will follow with great interest!!
cheers
Achim
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oh THX pals
I was busy with cutting heads and rifles, I wouldn't expect anything before march, sorry
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an ambitious and very versatile project :)
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So Saturday, then? :o
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THX gentlemen
what is ambitious about it? just sincerely asking
Saturday.... well that would be an interesting challenge...
I actually got a medium bout of butterfly syndrome when my new boat kit arrived (Revell swift boat).
so, let me summarize, I have some 13 late Interwar lorried cavalry conversions that are basecoated and already carrying skincolur, but I got ambitious here ;) and wanted to add a colour party (because Camaron day is closing..), which required (and still does) some more conversion....
I would have to skip that and just folow through with the rank and file.....
I will think about it
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"Clear!"
or what do they say after the paddle electrodes are applied and before the medic defibrillates the patient? ;) :D
OK, so I won't repost pictures of the bones or primed ones, so scroll back who wants to see them. This time it is about continueing where I stoped in, february I think....
I have the conversions of late interwar mounted company, who will come in a truck and command car.
Also an earlier version of the same unit, this time around the Great War, complete with vehicles (and including a little bit of repaint).
and a few HMG squads.
Some artillery would be great too, but I have to lay my hands on the miniatures for it first. There is a lot of entropy between Germany and Brigade Games....
-
oh, well....
since the fucking hottness doesn't do my mood to paint a favour, and also dries the acrylics too fast, I shall start with the vehicles -
which are a potpurri of oldtimer vehicles that will make my WW1/early interwar carpark, for trucked infantry, artillery train, supply column, trucked cavalry, whatever - the companion dollies are Old Glory CIC legion, including a few headswaps with woodbine, that will be combined with some others to form a mounted company/trucked cavalry MG unit of a more improvised character, used both before and after WW1
-
I've been eyeballin' some FFL minis lately. I've a hanckerin' to use em in some Pulp/Weird War. Will be watching progress! Good luck!
-
THX
I have a few surplus
what are You looking for?
oh, damn, Canada is too far
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Small squad of 6 or so with a commander type. Too far from where? :)
-
from germany to ship my surplus to Canada I guess....
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Hey... you cheated and started to early! >:(
:D
Looks like we are off and running. Good luck on your project!
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And they're off!
Looking forward to seeing what you do with the car pool.
8)
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oh, did I? sorry, I wasn't aware...
well, I won't start with painting very soon, since the cars need to be dismantled first before I can basecoat them. And I just realized that I can already use my artillery train troops, which are not prepped either...
so...
the project gets diverted from the start. Apparently I did not realize the full potential of the vehicles before I really started doing them.....
now I have to disassemble 5 Crossley trucks, 2 Thomas routers, 1 Truck and 1 Lancia armored car and fix the LMG mounts. I might have to buy a cannon too quickly.....
-
so, all of You who got lured into looking here and can give me a clue: what other guns than the 75mm and the 65mm mountain guns did the french army use? I would prefer something larger and more unusual, something they used in Morocco or so....
-
so, here is my concept for Great War and early interwar artillery.
Mainly Woodbine, partly british artillery with french heads (not a bad match eh?), plus GWM artillery, still missing, brigade games artillery crew.
The gun is a hodgepodge conversion, and I invite you to give me your oppinion. I would prefer something different, but I had it anyway so it might work for a while
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Pretty interesting, my only real problem with it is the thin wheels. Seems like WW1 artillery had wide plates and such to maximise surface area and weight transfer?
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I think Dr Mathias is right. Larger wheels... and gun mantle seems like "essential" elements of WWI heavy artillery.
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oh, I see...
the mantlet is not necessary with larger pieces, but the wheels are a point. I think Maxmini makes some of this kind.
the strange thing is that the artillery shells everybody is holing are supposed to be for the same gun....
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...the strange thing is that the artillery shells everybody is holing are supposed to be for the same gun....
Even though they don't look too "out of place"... I find that a lot artillery crews available throughout the different ranges of figures often hold artillery shells that look way too big for the guns they're supposed to go with...
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well, in this case too.
it is supposed to be between 75 an 84 mm and it looks at least 12mm.
I would actually prefer if they were made with bare hands and a choice of different, precisely made shells instead of those lumps of lead.
But never mind, I am not sure what gun(s) it will be in the end anyway
I will probably have some generic artillery crew, 10 are planned at the moment, to man whatever gun suits the scenario.
Also the train unit will be separate, with many seated to accomodate whatever transportation it will be - I plan both truck and horsed limber
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oh, damn.... fussing about the hardware is apparently my way of procrastination...
anyway, now that all miniatures I have for this run are based and coated, there is no pretext left for delaying the painting...
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now that all miniatures I have for this run are based and coated, there is no pretext left for delaying the painting...
I guess there was....
no painting progress at all, have waited for the support hardware to arrive, got the units prepped now (the motorpool will probably have to wait a bit )
I still need to acquire some mules...
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/ABC-groupe-artillerieB.jpg)
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/ABC-groupe-artillerieA.jpg)
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/BC-groupe-mitrailleuse.jpg)
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/AB-groupe-mitrailleuse.jpg)
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/former user_the_anarchist/Project%20FFL/ABC-groupe-artillerieC.jpg)
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Who makes the Hotchkiss?
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Soapy for the Woodbine range from Gripping Beast.
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Thanks.
-
I still need to acquire some mules...
No joy with the recent batch from the US then..?
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but absolutely - only too few and they have supply loads
plus, at least four more are required
and I need to be able to achieve this with them: