Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: Gluteus Maximus on May 10, 2008, 01:54:53 PM
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If you don't already know, GW are discontinuing their inks range, but are releasing a new range of washes.
I quote their blurb:
"The brand new Citadel Washes have been developed specifically for use on Citadel miniatures. The unique flow properties of the new washes means they are easy to control and will naturally run into recesses, shading your models. This box set contains all 8 of the Citadel Washes in the current range. Each pot contains 12ml of Citadel wash."
Oh dear, does that mean they won't work on Foundry or Perry minis? :? lol
Seriously, though, I was really impressed by their recent Foundation range, which though pricey, is very good for painting over black primer.
I've been assured by my local GW store manager, who has had a go with them pre-production, that they are very easy to use & give great results.
As GW's paints generally are very good, I'm keeping my fingers crossed :)
http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99179999007&orignav=9
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Sorry if I'm being a bit thick, but what makes these better than paint thinned with water?
Have they applied some newfangled mad science to them?
£12 seems like a lot of money for 96ml of watery paint.
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Sorry if I'm being a bit thick, but what makes these better than paint thinned with water?
Have they applied some newfangled mad science to them?
£12 seems like a lot of money for 96ml of watery paint.
Apparently there is some sort of agent added to break surface tension. Presumably they will just be upgraded inks, but who knows with GW? And, it goes without saying, GW products will never be cheap. Even their plastics seem ridiculously overpriced when compared to the Perrys'.
In theory it's easy to get good results by adding pva to aid ingress to all the little crevices, but I always struggle to get a good coverage of mail or fine hair etc when trying to wash. I'm hoping these new ones will give me good results, without the "aaaaaaaargh" factor I usually get ;)
Still, each to his own and if you can get good results with diluting standard paint, then more power to your elbow! :)
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PVA eh? I don't think I've heard of this trick before.
Sounds interesting and cheap. :)
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PVA eh? I don't think I've heard of this trick before.
Sounds interesting and cheap. :)
Now, I have to be careful here, as I usually get this the wrong way round :-[
A tiny blob of PVA added to the wash will aid flow into crevices, whilst leaving flat surfaces pretty well free of wash. A tiny bit of added washing up liquid will spread the wash out over the whole area, forming a stain [good for turning white into a grubby khaki shade, by using brown for example] with it being darker in the folds. A second wash with the PVA mix will then give darker shadows.
However, getting the right consistency of the mix is something I personally struggle with. Done well, both methods can give excellent results, but it's a bit "hit and miss" or me - hence my optimism over the new washes.
I have to reccomend using an old figure to practice on, as I won't be held responsible for your figures being ruined lol
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I have to reccomend using an old figure to practice on, as I won't be held responsible for your figures being ruined lol
Cheers for that, I'll give it a go soon.
And if it doesn't work out, you'll be hearing from my solicitor. :D
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PVA eh? I don't think I've heard of this trick before.
Sounds interesting and cheap. :)
As mentioned it has its problems.
If there is an art supply store in the area go there and get a bottle of "flow release". You then mix that with water and use that to break the surface tension of paints for washes and even for base coats.
The bottles are quite large and since you mix it with water they tend to last a long time. I know some local professional painters who still have a bottle they bought four years ago.
It is intended to be used with paints so it won't have any unexpected side effects :-)
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I quote their blurb:
"The brand new Citadel Washes have been developed specifically for use on Citadel miniatures. The unique flow properties of the new washes means they are easy to control and will naturally run into recesses, shading your models. This box set contains all 8 of the Citadel Washes in the current range. Each pot contains 12ml of Citadel wash. Give us the deed to your houise and your wife and children as thralls and way may send you a pot if we feel so inclined."
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I quote their blurb:
"The brand new Citadel Washes have been developed specifically for use on Citadel miniatures. The unique flow properties of the new washes means they are easy to control and will naturally run into recesses, shading your models. This box set contains all 8 of the Citadel Washes in the current range. Each pot contains 12ml of Citadel wash. Give us the deed to your houise and your wife and children as thralls and way may send you a pot if we feel so inclined."
lol Ain't that the truth!
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All sorts of things act as surface tension releasers. A drop of "Jet Dry" rinse agent is also a possibility, and has the advantage of not requiring the sale of one's family into vassalage.
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Sorry if I'm being a bit thick, but what makes these better than paint thinned with water?
Nothing, i own some bottles of their "washes" and don't use them anymore. Using them results in a extrem glossy finish which is unbearbale. The only exception is "Armour Wash" because it results in a nice glossy metally finish.
Thinning my old GW Paints with was a disaster too, so i stick to Vallejo.
just my 2 cts
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All sorts of things act as surface tension releasers. A drop of "Jet Dry" rinse agent is also a possibility, and has the advantage of not requiring the sale of one's family into vassalage.
It isn't designed to work with paints and pigments though so who knows waht actual effect it has on your paint.
A bottle of flow release is cheap considering how long it lasts.
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The only exception is "Armour Wash" because it results in a nice glossy metally finish.
These aren't the same as the old Flesh and Armour Washes they used to sell.
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I use inks, for both washes and glazes. I won't be "investing" in the GW stuff. CDA are great inks, and I know of painters who simply use Artists' Inks, such as those produced by W&N
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/orctrader/R2.jpg)
I mix the inks with water and "magic wash" (http://www.brigademodels.co.uk/NoFrames/Gaming/Aeronef/ModelPaint/MagicWash.html)
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The only exception is "Armour Wash" because it results in a nice glossy metally finish.
These aren't the same as the old Flesh and Armour Washes they used to sell.
You mean the good ol' stuff:
(http://www.displacedminiatures.com/images/img.1210453746654.jpg.130.190.50.jpg)
Is the new Stuff Crap?
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Is the new Stuff Crap?
No idea. Haven't even managed to get my hands on a bottle yet. I imagine that it will be like most washes. Great if it does what you want and matches your painting style but not so hot if it doesn't.
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Something I have used for several years now to great effect for washes is a mix of one part acrylic floor wax (in the US, "Future" is the brand name I use) to four parts water. I mix up a small squirt bottle (available at craft stores) with some, and use a few drops with a drop of paint to get the desired thinness. It does make the wash a little glossy when it dries, but since I go over all with matte varnish anyway, that hasn't been a problem for me. And the bottle of "Future" I bought several years ago is still mostly full, so it has been very inexpensive as well!
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Yes, I just wanted to mention Future Floor Polish (in Germany: Erdal Glänzer) as a flow enhancer, but you can even use a tiny drop of dish washing detergent amongst other fluids. What you really don't need are any kind of "new" inks or colours from GW (imho!). These are always the same shit they would like you to buy last time, and the time before, ... Highly expensive, small amounts of colour in small bottles, nothing you can't get better and cheaper elsewhere. :D
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that's totally untrue...
the last time the changes the inks (from the flip top to the screw cap bottles) they (in my experience) actually became worse...
But often GW stuff id high quality. Sadly, for a lot people buying their equipment, high quality is not always necessary...
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I saw some examples of monopose Goblins all washed with the various colors of the new GW inks when I went to pick up the new Warhammer Demons book last Sunday. From what I could tell whilst the redshirt was haranguing me, the new inks are supposed to be formulated more like the dip that is currently in vogue (ie: they're made to settle into the recesses of the model and leave raised areas relatively clean).
It might be worth picking up one or two colors to experiment with, just to see...
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if i want to use a wash i just thin my paint and add 'klear' its great!!
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I've seen and used the new stuff at my local GW store. I actually think it's going to be good. I was only able to experiment quickly with it, as did several other people. The results over a straight white primer for instance was really good and it's definately not your typical ink, it's more like the dip method, but dries flat and didn't pool at the bottom (of course I'm more anal than the next guy and made sure to 'guide' the paint as best I could.
I think the stuff is worth trying out. I'll buy some as I won't deny myself the oppurtunity to have more options when painting.
I think not trying them just because you don't like GW's policies is silly. Good paint is good paint, and makes all the difference in a paint job (well, and patience, skill, effort, etc.). They'll go next to my GW, GW foundation, Vallejo Model, Vallejo Game, P3 (some of the best ever!) and Foundry (which incidentally is also 'expensive')
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Freaking fanboy! lol
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My standby is Winsor & Newton inks in a Future/Kleer wash. Even better were W&N Brilliant Watercolours, which had a wider range of colors, but they've been out of production for several years, now.
I like to be able to mix different washes depending on the colors that they're being applied over. Austrian white uniforms take something more subtle than Confederate butternut, for example. With colored inks, you can really tailor the wash for a particular application.
Allen
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I had the pleasure of using these new "washes" and I was impressed. Mind you, it werent nothing you couldnt do with any other brand with a bit of work, but this stuff works great straight out of the bottle.
I've pre-ordered the set and will post pics of the results when I get them. As to those who dislike GW, I stand by "boltgun metal" as one of the best metallic colours made. They have their ups and downs like every other company, but if you dont like it, go buy 51% of the stock and run the company. :)
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I agree with Barmy Bob!
Having seen [and tried] the new GW inks recently, they will be perfect for Rudi's "Fastpaint" style of painting:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=6009.new;topicseen#new
The brown and black are especially good, although all of them dry perfectly matt, fill the crevices and leave a "stain" on the raised detail with no pooling on flat surfaces. Painting the base white, inking in undiluted brown, then a dilute wash of black gave an excellent "khaki" shade.
White base with a green ink wash gave fantasticly eerie "Army of the Dead" results for Lord of the Rings.
Black wash over chainmail gave excellent ringmail results, with all the holes in the mail being filled by the ink and a pleasingly dull metallic effect. Often this can be hard to achieve with one wash.
They will be perfect for quickly painting all the Perry plastic ACW figures I'll be buying. I'll try painting pale khaki as a base & then using brown wash for butternut and a pale grey drybrush with black wash for err... grey. They should also work well for blues etc, with careful mixing of black into the blue ink over a lightish blue-grey base.
Expensive - undoubtedly. Worthwhile in that they will save hours of valuable painting time - definitely! :D
GW can be a very expensive pain in the ass, but even the most hardened anti-Evil Empire guerilla has to agree that they do some things very well indeed lol
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GW can be a very expensive pain in the ass, but even the most hardened anti-Evil Empire guerilla has to agree that they do some things very well indeed lol
Yes, that's undoubtly true, GM. One of the most cunning and very well done things GW did was to sell those kids a bag of ordinary sand you could pick up yourself around any corner for 7,50 EUR or 8,- US $. :o o_o >:D
Oh, I know, they call it "Modelling Sand". Nevertheless, it's just plain ordinary sand. For that money I could buy four 20 kg sacks of sand in any DIY, and can pick up from different sorts as well.
But - I'll stop here. If a product works for you, just ok.
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Quote from: Gluteus Maximus on May 28, 2008, 12:44:01 PM
GW can be a very expensive pain in the ass, but even the most hardened anti-Evil Empire guerilla has to agree that they do some things very well indeed
Yes, that's undoubtly true, GM. One of the most cunning and very well done things GW did was to sell those kids a bag of ordinary sand you could pick up yourself around any corner for 7,50 EUR or 8,- US $.
Oh, I know, they call it "Modelling Sand". Nevertheless, it's just plain ordinary sand. For that money I could buy four 20 kg sacks of sand in any DIY, and can pick up from different sorts as well.
Not forgetting the PVA that you can also buy in Poundland.
I just used the washes on some gangsters I bought in bright colours, they toned them down nicely.
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Well... my experience with inks and washes has been poor.
The reason being, of course, is that no matter how thin it is, the entire surface changes color, in varying degrees. And I personally don't like that, because I can't be sure what the figure will look like after I have applied the wash.
When I decide to use a wash, I first apply a very light layer of varnish to the figure. I do this with a brush. The varnish keeps the wash from absorbing into the paint and I can actually control where the wash pools and know exactly what color will come out when it has dried.
Other than that, I don't do inks or washes.
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Well,
I've used the first GW inks, then the washes, the glazes, wonderwash, the new GW Inks and the new boxed washes.
I must admit the new washes are more like wonderwash, but with a bit more coverage, plus they give a matt/satin finish rather than a gloss.
Currently using them on my TAG NBC troops, (posted up in future wars), quite like them alot. Will also be dipping my wick so to speak and using them on Andy's new Heresy Blight Demons I got as a pre order to paint so keep you posted; but so far so good.
The Commander
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I've used the washes and I do like them.
The flesh wash is particularly effective as is devlan mud. The red one is a bit odd as I'm not sure it makes much difference.
The thing I've found is to not mess about with it until its dry!!
Dodge
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I recently bought the Devlan Mud and Ogryn flesh washes after reading the other thread about them. The flow reminds me of Tamiya's smoke wash. I like it!
As a former redshirt who would NOT hang on you like the tick on a wildebeest's ass (as we are trained to do), I would really recommend them, but I am still disappointed in their price point.
evaluate the product, not the company