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Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: marcusluis on 06 August 2013, 11:29:49 PM
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The white queen on bbc, anybody been watching this looks quite good..
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I gave up after the first couple of episodes. My wife is still following it addictedly. I think it's one for the girls. The history is broadly right but very sketchy in some places and fanciful in others. But the look and feel of the whole thing is totally wrong. The actors look improbable, the costumes are way out, the buildings are way too modern and so is the dialogue, the battle scenes are non existent, and the scenes where you see 'an army', usually involve about three bored looking exras in leotards and fibre glass breastplates. I found the whole thing disappointingly shit in many ways. Pity. Could have been so good.
I guess if you just sit back and think of it as a kind of fairytale made on a budget, it's probably enjoyable enough in its own right. But as a dramatization of the Wars of the Roses - frankly you're better off with Shakespeare.
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Phew!
Am I glad that you took the time to write that, Richard?
I certainly am.
I was gutted that I had missed the first two episodes due to work and was going to get it on DVD when it is released.
I think I will spend the scheckles elsewhere.
Thank you!
:)
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Just my point of view Paul. I could be wrong ;)
As I say, the wife loves it.
And I'm usually fine with a few historical inaccuracies. But we're so used to seeing great looking CGI armies in movies these days, and even in things like GoT, that the old BBC trick of trying to get away with it by missing the action scenes altogether and skimping on extras - and then making no attempt to even get the arms and armour right, just doesn't cut it any more.
I think this was an attempt to capitalise on the very popular 'The Tudors' in a similar vein. The difference with the Tudors was, even though it was far-fetched in places and the actors all looked like models, the period look and flavour of the costumes and settings felt right. Sadly this is very much not the case with The White Queen. I also think the dialogue and acting in the Tudors was a lot better.
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I gave up after the first couple of episodes. My wife is still following it addictedly. I think it's one for the girls. The history is broadly right but very sketchy in some places and fanciful in others. But the look and feel of the whole thing is totally wrong. The actors look improbable, the costumes are way out, the buildings are way too modern and so is the dialogue, the battle scenes are non existent, and the scenes where you see 'an army', usually involve about three bored looking exras in leotards and fibre glass breastplates. I found the whole thing disappointingly shit in many ways. Pity. Could have been so good.
I guess if you just sit back and think of it as a kind of fairytale made on a budget, it's probably enjoyable enough in its own right. But as a dramatization of the Wars of the Roses - frankly you're better off with Shakespeare.
My thoughts and actions exactly, it was A soap opera in tights :D
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Can't really argue with the Captain, there. My wife is still watching it "just in case it gets good" (bit late now, pet...) but I lost interest very quickly.
Couldn't help thinking that if Warwick had put his armour on properly before he was laid out in state, maybe they wouldn't have been able to kill him so easily... ::)
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Disappointing. I liked it, but as I googled bits I found just how wide of the mark it was and that and the costumes have made me less and less interested as the episodes pass. Now I know what really happened I don't care about dramatisation.
Also I can't work out why you'd want to dress or set characters in anything other than the correct period setting!? 5 mins on the web would give you all the examples for correct costumes, equipment etc you need.
I'm sure there's loads of reenactors who'd love to be an extra - ask the Companie of Saint George if you want world class, or at least the "local" WOTR Federation. Bruges may be lovely, but don't we have enough castles and palaces in the UK to serve as the background for our own history?
Rant over lol!
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I'm pleased now that i didn't bother on a hunch ...
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Disappointing. I liked it, but as I googled bits I found just how wide of the mark it was and that and the costumes have made me less and less interested as the episodes pass. Now I know what really happened I don't care about dramatisation.
Also I can't work out why you'd want to dress or set characters in anything other than the correct period setting!? 5 mins on the web would give you all the examples for correct costumes, equipment etc you need.
I'm sure there's loads of reenactors who'd love to be an extra - ask the Companie of Saint George if you want world class, or at least the "local" WOTR Federation. Bruges may be lovely, but don't we have enough castles and palaces in the UK to serve as the background for our own history?
Rant over lol!
Reminded me of the latest BBC series of Robin Hood to be honest ;D
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Reminded me of the latest BBC series of Robin Hood to be honest ;D
Exactly. It's a conceit, trying to make period dramas feel more 'contemporary', by giving the characters more modern motivations and costuming them in a kind of hybrid period-cum-modern clothes. I just don't think it works.
Bruges may be lovely, but don't we have enough castles and palaces in the UK to serve as the background for our own history?
Many of the grander city buildings shown as backdrops are manifestly red brick edifices from the C17th and C18th. About 300 years too late.
Again, it all contributes to a weird sense of dislocation. That these are somehow proto-modern day people in a quasi-modern setting.
In short, it just doesn't feel authentic or medieval at all. Which is why (for me anyway) it doesn't work and I gave up on it after two or three episodes...
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I gave up after 2 episodes. I've seen screenshots with modern guttering and downcomers, etc. with no attempt to even disguise them. Details like that kill off any pretence of atmosphere and context (look at Jim Bibbly's recent work for how this should work, where the attention to detail draws you in). The historical side just seemed to be rushed through in an "in other news Edward is king; no he's not; yes he is again" sort of way. If it's meant to be a drama focusing on 'people' why bother to try and base it on real people and events if it just comes across as a bit rubbish historical fiction?
Other than that it was great!' ;D
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Just my point of view Paul. I could be wrong ;)
You're not! I concur with all the points you made in your post above.
It is abysmal and that is being kind lol!!
Darrell.
PS. what was with the soldiers refusing to wear armour on their right arms and legs??? Wierd, just plain wierd....
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The armour thing? Yeah I saw that and thought grrrrrr....but....
http://je-lay-emprins.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/one-pauldron-and-four-destriers.html
And I thought, well blow me down a lucky coincidence surely!
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And I thought, well blow me down a lucky coincidence surely!
I'd still be slightly wary of Medieval artistic convention as it had it's own rules and conventions that did not necessarily follow consistently the actual facts. It's something that I looked at quite a lot when i was doing my Fine Art degree.
Maybe for a Scurror? A lowly gentleman? But for the high nobility, as depicted in the series??? I seriously doubt it to be honest. Quite confident that they never went into battle in such harness.
Darrell.
Darrell.
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I think we now know a huge amount about the highly sophisticated 'white armour' and liveries of the period. And we know that most 'men-at-arms' of any rank or standing could afford some sort of suit of armour, and that the top nobility and royalty would almost certainly have had the latest and best stuff, head-to-toe.
So seeing Max Irons as Edward IV, supposedly en route to war, galloping alone through the countryside wearing a skanky breastplate over a kind of silver spandex Star Trek tunic, leatherette tights and pixie boots is just piss-poor. It's girlie fantasy, which is fine as long as you don't set it up as history. But unavoidably, that's how the layman takes it. Which is a shame, because it just perpetuates the foolish Victorian romantic stereoptypes of all things medieval as men-in-tights and short skirts... Grrr. >:(
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Sounds like they were inspired by "Sexy Tudors".
(http://www.harkavagrant.com/history/sexytudors.png)
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So seeing Max Irons as Edward IV, supposedly en route to war, galloping alone through the countryside wearing a skanky breastplate over a kind of silver spandex Star Trek tunic, leatherette tights and pixie boots is just piss-poor. It's girlie fantasy, which is fine as long as you don't set it up as history. But unavoidably, that's how the layman takes it. Which is a shame, because it just perpetuates the foolish Victorian romantic stereoptypes of all things medieval as men-in-tights and short skirts... Grrr. >:(
Added to this if the fact that if they can get away with disregarding historical fashion, both layman, nobility, gentry and military, then will never see the day that Medieval warfare/politics are fairly and accurately represented.
Darrell.
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Seems to be a common theme to the posts. Like the rest of you I gave up on the White Queen very quickly(didn't make it to the end of the first episode), but my wife is still religiously watching it and thoroughly enjoying it. I watched the Tudors with her and am still watching the Borgias with her, but the White Queen is too much to stomach. When it was first being advertised and they were proudly announcing it was based on a Philippa Gregory book I started to be sceptical, I had a bad experience of trying to read one of her books so I was not too suprised at the poor quality of this show. The worrying bit is that it does appear to be very popular with the lasses and Ms Gregory has written 3 more novels about the Wars Of The Roses, with a fourth to be published this year, so the BBc could be churning out similar series for quite a while to come.
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Somewhat happily, I think they've rolled the whole wretched sequence of potboilers (White Queen, Red Queen, Kingmaker's Daughter, etc etc) into the one long series.
I believe it's now up to episode 8 and Richard of Gloucester has the Princes in the Tower? So they can't have much further to go with it, can they - apart from a slight hiatus followed up by Bosworth... Thank God.
Unless of course they retell the entire saga all over again from different perspectives. Which would surely be intolerable even for the dedicated lady viewer of bodice-rippers...
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The best bit is that each scene always starts or ends with a man on a horse entering a courtyard !
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The best bit is that each scene always starts or ends with a man on a horse entering a courtyard !
Would this make it a potential drinking game?
lol
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<sigh> Yes, it's a poor production all told and if it weren't for Rupert Graves turning in a fine show as the ever-untrustworthy Stanley, even a pleasant bit of "sofa time" with Mrs Rab would not induce me to watch it, even as fairytale (Pauldrons! Aaagh! >:(). At least we get the "what was wrong with that episode" chat afterwards ::)
Wasted opportunity for a decent BBC War of the Roses series. Like the Captain says, stick with Shakespeare.
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Ok...I think I started something there..!! lol lol
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Yeah, sorry about that lol
Needed to get that off my chest for the last 8 weeks :)
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Hehee well, you did ask! :D
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Unless of course they retell the entire saga all over again from different perspectives. Which would surely be intolerable even for the dedicated lady viewer of bodice-rippers...
lol I needed that lol
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Completely agree with the critiques posted here. Its despicable shite....
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lol
Despicable shite - a much pithier critique :)
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After I've read all this... I look forward to ...not watching it if it comes on French TV lol
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After I've read all this... I look forward to ...not watching it if it comes on French TV lol
lol You must shut your eyes and ears to save your sanity!! lol
Darrell.
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Ignorance is bliss I was enjoying this. Then I read this post and last nights episode didn't seem to capture my imagination as it did the weeks before. Episode nine of ten and I only just realised the acting is pretty naff. In my defence there's not much else out there and it makes a change from all the cop/hospital/standup comedian rubbish that tends to fill our screens.
Oh well back to the painting lol.
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Me too,
So instead, I watched the new Michael Wood documentary on the Anglo Saxons which I'd recorded.
Aaaahhhhhh, balance restored!
:D
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...new Michael Wood documentary on the Anglo Saxons ...
This grabbed my interest which got me googling. I had always thought Michael Wood was only interested in classical Mediterranean history, turns out he is not.
Does anyone know of a complete listing of documentaries that he has done?
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This grabbed my interest which got me googling. I had always thought Michael Wood was only interested in classical Mediterranean history, turns out he is not.
Does anyone know of a complete listing of documentaries that he has done?
He's done quite a few for the BBC, I'll have a dig.... get back to me later on today.
Darrell.
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I've got several of his books. In search of the Dark Ages, and so on. He was all the rage about 25 years ago, then vanished from view for a while, but recently seems to have resurfaced. He was quite a pioneer in TV history, ahead of the Starkeys, Schamas and Fergusons...
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He's done quite a few for the BBC, I'll have a dig.... get back to me later on today.
Darrell.
Thanks. If it's any easier I am really interested in anything on the Anglo-Saxons (or Vikings if I am honest).
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They just started showing it over here in the states last weekend. The wife put it on and was quite looking forward to it, but she turned the channel after about ten minutes with some comment about it being far more soap opera than history.
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I watched the first episode, out of curiousity and general interest in the period. The lead female is just stunning, she and James Frain may make me watch one more episode. Overall though I think it is pretty poor. No where near the quality of The Borgias or Game of Thrones.
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Ok, so I just watched the last episode out of morbid curiosity to see how badly they could screw up Bosworth.
Turns out, quite badly.
My wife thinks I'm ever so slightly sad because I watched the battle tutting and mumbling about kite shields... :(
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Ok, so I just watched the last episode out of morbid curiosity to see how badly they could screw up Bosworth.
Turns out, quite badly.
My wife thinks I'm ever so slightly sad because I watched the battle tutting and mumbling about kite shields... :(
I was pi**ing my pants and at the same time trying to stop myself from pulling out what's left of my hair lol!!!
I've never seen something so badly massed up for years!! Never! Period!!
Darrell.
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Yep, kite shields and mail coifs. And about 20 extras they kept recycling... Really awful...
Thank God that's over.
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Yep, kite shields and mail coifs. And about 20 extras they kept recycling... Really awful...
Thank God that's over.
Richard, they made it for american audience. Not for us. Compare the american version of the Borgias and the European Version...
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Ah yes - i had overlooked that Dirk :)
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Yep, kite shields and mail coifs. And about 20 extras they kept recycling... Really awful...
Thank God that's over.
Now I kind of want to see that to see just how bad it was.
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Ah yes - i had overlooked that Dirk :)
Don't understand it in the wrong way. With shows like this you can bring people to this interesting era, which never learnd something about this exciting history.
Maybe they will read Cornwall after this and get better information. And than they will find your threads here...
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I think this was an attempt to capitalise on the very popular 'The Tudors' in a similar vein. The difference with the Tudors was....
Boobs. Boobs was what redeemed 'The Tudors'. My wife loves all of these programs and consumes them voraciously. I tease her relentlessly that she enjoys boobs more than I do.
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My Mrs loved it & it got her interested in the history of WOR! :o
I watched it with her & spent most of the time chunterting on about how bad it was :)
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My Partner loves the books. I've referred her to the Sun in Splendour and hope that she feels enthused enough to do a WotR Yorkist army to take on my Lancastrians.
On 2nd thoughts ... ;)