Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: carlos13th on October 31, 2013, 12:18:53 AM
-
Who here has tried Kings of War. I havent had a game yet but it seems like a fun but simple fantasy game thats quick to play.
I particularly like there Kingdoms of Men faction that basically allows you to use any other historical miniatures as their units.
If any of you have KOW army's painted up feel free to share it.
Beasts of War are currently doing a week of videos dedicated to the game if you are at all interested.
http://www.beastsofwar.com/kings-of-war/kings-of-war-week-2013/
-
Indeed I do and our group uses the rule set to play Lord Of The Rings as well using either stats straight from the book or slightly altered. It's quick and easy to pick up but very fun to play plus the rules are free, bonus!
-
I've been thinking about it, but the army lists in the free mini rulebook are pretty limiting.
My main aim is to get my existing collection onto the table and the game's lure for me dims significantly if e.g. I can't have bow-armed orcs.
Are the lists if the big book more varied?
Actually, I just wrote about it in my blog:
http://www.smallcuts.net/blog/?id=1417
-
I've been thinking about it, but the army lists in the free mini rulebook are pretty limiting.
My main aim is to get my existing collection onto the table and the game's lure for me dims significantly if e.g. I can't have bow-armed orcs.
Are the lists if the big book more varied?
Actually, I just wrote about it in my blog:
http://www.smallcuts.net/blog/?id=1417
All the army lists are available to download: http://www.manticgames.com/free-rules.html (http://www.manticgames.com/free-rules.html)
-
There is a unit called "Sniff" for bow armed orcs.
http://forum.manticblog.com/showthread.php?658-Kings-of-War-Warpath-for-Battlescribe-%28free-list-building-software%29&highlight=battlescribe
That may be useful. Its a free list builder for KOW. Its what I am using (Along with the big rule book) to create my kingdoms of men samurai army.
One comment in your Blog I would disagree with is that it's heavily tied to their line of miniatures. While of course mantic would prefer you to use there minis as long as the units have the correct footprint you can use whoevers miniatures you like. The Kingdom of men list for example was designed with this in mind.
-
One comment in your Blog I would disagree with is that it's heavily tied to their line of miniatures.
That's the way the 1st edition seemed to me. I just checked the orc army list and e.g. there are no spear or sword armed orcs.
Sure, I could just call them an ax regiment... but why no weapon options or even a descriptive line like "orcs armed with a variety of 1-handed weapons"?
as long as the units have the correct footprint
Well, that's another issue. I base (almost) everything on 1" washers these days. Does that mean I can't use my e.g. goblins? I doubt it makes a huge impact on gameplay, but technically speaking it's illegal basing.
-
No offense, but it seems to me you're just too picky.
Sure, I could just call them an ax regiment... but why no weapon options or even a descriptive line like "orcs armed with a variety of 1-handed weapons"?
Screw the names, think of these units like this:
- Ax - orcs with hand weapons & shields,
- Greatax - orcs with 2-handed weapons,
- Morax - orcs with lots of hand weapons, but no shields.
These don't even have to be orcs, just mean creatures slightly bigger than a man. I used my GW Lizardmen as a mixed orc & goblin army.
As for the spear-armed orcs, add the Pike Phalanx rule to a unit of Ax and work out the cost. Or use the stats from some other army list - you can do that, it's even described in the rulebook (though you can't mix good and evil army lists and take war machines and heroes without taking a "normal" unit).
Well, that's another issue. I base (almost) everything on 1" washers these days. Does that mean I can't use my e.g. goblins? I doubt it makes a huge impact on gameplay, but technically speaking it's illegal basing.
The bases of your individual minis don't matter (unless they're heroes) - what matters are the units bases. Just prepare a base for the whole unit and put as many minis on it as you can (it really doesn't matter if it's the appropriate number, as long as your opponent knows how big the unit is).
-
No offense, but it seems to me you're just too picky.
I do this because sooner or later I will run into the opponent who wants everything to be exactly like in the book...
...therefore I prefer rules that explicitly let you change things.
I prefer the more abstract approach of Chipco's Fantasy Rules or Hordes of the Things because they let me do my modelling any way I like and use all my models.
I just want to play with my toys -- I don't want to invest in any ruleset that does not allow me to do that.
-
With KOW the main concern is the unit footprint. Beyond that it doesn't matter so much, use what you want.
My current list doesn't have a single mantic model.
-
Carlos, I think your mindset is exactly how KOW was meant to be played. Use whatever miniatures and modeling style you like, as long as the footprints are more or less the same. I use Litko movement trays that are a little bit off size-wise and I haven't had a problem yet. Here's my review and battle report if you're curious: http://chicagoskirmish.blogspot.com/2013/08/kings-of-war-battle-report-and-game.html
Also I base my guys on 25mm circular bases, but it hasn't been a problem using these movement trays.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LfUcN1CBOuA/UfvLQIXC8tI/AAAAAAAAEIk/mVpSGJ7UCsc/s1600/20130801_185704.jpg)
I do this because sooner or later I will run into the opponent who wants everything to be exactly like in the book...
...therefore I prefer rules that explicitly let you change things.
I guess just steer clear of those opponents who will deliberately try to impede your fun?
But seriously, it's pretty clear that the philosophy behind Kings of War can be summed up as follows: "Play big games, have fun, roll dice, have more fun"
They'd love it if you wanted to use their miniatures, but you don't have to.
-
I really like those movement trays. Allows you to use them ranked for KOW and historicals as well as taking them out for Skirmish games.
-
I'm a big fan of Kings of War. I've only played it three times, but it was enough to convince me to build an army.
Fast, yet tacticaly satisfying. THe various abstractions do make it seem to experienced wargamers like a ruleset that would be written for 15mm figures, but I think 28mm is much prettier, so I play in the suggested scale.
My army is Humans allied with undead (for werewolves) and is comprised of Battlemaster's figures, Reaper, Confrontation prepainted werewolves (touched up a bit), and others.
You can see it on the opposite side of the board in PatrickWR's report where you can also read my opinions of the game. Additionally in this battle with another club member where it faced off against a rather unique union of men and elves.
http://chicagoskirmish.blogspot.com/2013/10/warriors-of-chaos-against-rising-sun-in.html
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2013/10/16/547908.JPG)
Unpainted, I've got 30 more warriors in-progress with 10 each of beastmen and archers to beef up those units to 20 strong each and another unit of knights. I'm really looking forward to when I and my opponents have 2000+ point forces and larger unit sizes.
-
Nice armies!
I too have been thinking about making a human/undead army, mixing Mantic Undead and Warlord Celts - that would give me barbarian people defending their land with the help of necromancy. Bought a lot of undead, but I don't have the time to paint them... :(
-
Carlos, I think your mindset is exactly how KOW was meant to be played. Use whatever miniatures and modeling style you like, as long as the footprints are more or less the same. I use Litko movement trays that are a little bit off size-wise and I haven't had a problem yet. Here's my review and battle report if you're curious: http://chicagoskirmish.blogspot.com/2013/08/kings-of-war-battle-report-and-game.html
Also I base my guys on 25mm circular bases, but it hasn't been a problem using these movement trays.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LfUcN1CBOuA/UfvLQIXC8tI/AAAAAAAAEIk/mVpSGJ7UCsc/s1600/20130801_185704.jpg)
I guess just steer clear of those opponents who will deliberately try to impede your fun?
But seriously, it's pretty clear that the philosophy behind Kings of War can be summed up as follows: "Play big games, have fun, roll dice, have more fun"
They'd love it if you wanted to use their miniatures, but you don't have to.
Where did you get the movement tras btw. They are exactly what I am after so I can use some of my guys for skirmish games as well.
-
Nice armies!
I too have been thinking about making a human/undead army, mixing Mantic Undead and Warlord Celts - that would give me barbarian people defending their land with the help of necromancy. Bought a lot of undead, but I don't have the time to paint them... :(
I am having a similar problem. Its less getting enough time for me and getting enough time to paint them when I feel well enough to do so. Still feel free to post your profess here when you make some.
-
Aren't Mantic undead on 20mm bases as standard?
In Warhammer (and other figure-based rules), there is a definite advantage for using narrower frontage -- you get more models to attack, e.g. 4 orcs on 25mm bases will face 5 humans on 20mm bases, that's a 20% advantage in number of attacks.
So I'm gathering the unit width doesn't really make a huge impact in KoW? I could easily standardize on Impetus bases (120mm width) and it wouldn't really matter? For standard units, hordes are doublewidth, aren't they?
I wish the rules had actually been clearer on this...
-
Kings of War is unit-based, but Mantic models are (or were) very much oriented towards playing figure-based Warhammer. ;) Mantic orcs still come with individual 25mm bases, but in KoW they're still organised into 20-figure-strong regiments etc., making an orc reg 20% wider and deeper than than one of humans, elves, dwarfs, skellies etc. I assume the game was playtested and at least a little balanced with this in mind.
I don't know how much practical difference it might make to stick orcs on a unit base identical to other races. Maybe only a minor niggle, but enough to put KoW down a place or two on my favourites chart.
-
I love KoW and don't on a single Mantic product. And that's why, even if KoW was only half as good as it is, I'd still play. I love companies and games that don't force their products down my throat. Watch those Beasts of War videos they posted last month with James Hewitt, a Manyic employee. They STRONGLY encourage people to be creative with their armies.
Hell, I play with Lego figs and they even included it in a blog post. Here's a link to my armies:
http://forum.manticblog.com/showthread.php?4739-My-Lego-KoW-units
-
They STRONGLY encourage people to be creative with their armies.
I do like the attitude, but I would like if they were clearer about the gameplay effects beyond the old "all models are supplied with correct size bases (when bought from us)" schtick.
E.g. DBM is a big ruleset on the historicals side. Like most historicals, there is no "official" figure range for DBM. You can stick whatever you want on the bases and it doesn't affect the game in any way. However, the bases themselves have to be the correct size or the game will break down -- and the rules are very clear on this (well, as clear as anything written in Barkerese is).
E.g. so an orc unit is wider than a similar human unit. Does this actually make a difference in gameplay (beyond simple terrain fitment issues)? Like is it possible for two human units to simultaneously attack the orc unit's front because of the difference in frontage?
-
Its not that difficult to work out if you know the base sizes. It would have been nice if they included the measurements though. I haven't played the game enough to say how unit size effects gameplay but here are the rough measurements.
This is from a rather poor memory but I believe normal infantry are on 20mm bases and Orcs are on 25mm
So Basicly a standard troop is 10 guys 5 across and 2 back. Non orc infantry is on 20mm bases.
Meaning the unit size of a standard troop is 100x40.
Standard Regiment 20 guys 5 across and 4 back is 100x80
Standard horde is 40 guys 10 across and 4 back 200x80
Orcs are on 25mm bases so just add 25%
Troop = 125x50
Regiment = 125x100
Horde= 150x100
You can multibase things so as long as your entire unit is the right size it doesn't really matter how many models you have ontop or what their base size is.
All of this has a little leeway as the rules state plus or minus a movement tray. So a little bigger would be fine a little smaller may not be.
-
Orcs are on 25mm bases so just add 25%
Yes, but does it make a difference?
Going back to my orcs vs. men example, we figured that humans enjoy a 20% advantage in number of attacks due to base size. Let's be generous and assume the game balancing actually takes this into account and for the sake of argument let's assume that orc and human units are supposed to be equal -- they have slightly different advantages but those are supposed to cancel out.
Now, if I ignore the game's instructions and mount my humans on 25mm bases... I will lose the 20% advantage.
The game still plays. But my humans will constantly and consistently lose to an "equal" force of orcs, meaning the game balance is broken.
In this case, changing the base size makes a significant difference.
What I'm curious about is whether base size Kings of War plays a similar part.
-
Well, in a straight head-to-head clash between two units of the same designated figure count, each unit rolls a set number of attacks, regardless of unit or miniature frontage. So in that case I don't think it matters. What I'm less sure about are maneuvres, movement distances, multiple units in combat, and - like I said above - whether all that's taken into the unit points cost.
I might be a little (or a lot) obsessive and paranoid about it, but like I also said: when ranked up against other possible game choices it's an extra little con of uncertainty and even railroading. Seems to emphasise the link and compatibility with Warhammer, and in terms of basing seems to drive you towards compatibility with that figure-based ruleset, rather than allow compatibility with many other unit-based mass combat games. Like Mayhem, and HOTT, and Impetus ;)
It's perfectly fine for the many people who become bored with Warhammer and want to try something different (better) without mucking their 25mm-based orcs about too much (and more power to them); but personally, I'd like to diverge just a wee bit further than that.
Although, I've been meaning to try it out with a couple of Warmaster armies. Could be useful to see if cav on the same frontage as infantry makes a difference.
-
I just like the fact you can pretty much slot any historicals you want into a kingdoms of men force.
-
I went ahead and bought the rules.
There is a strong emphasis on "being able to fit" in the rules.
In a 1-on-1 engagement it doesn't make much difference, but in a battleline-vs-battleline situation the units with larger footprint are at distinct disadvantage. Identical frontage allows you to make 2-on-1 attacks against a unit in a battle line (apparently this game does not have a concept of mutually supporting units, so their brave fellows will do much twiddling of thumbs while their line is being penetrated...) while smaller frontage (e.g. humans vs. orcs) allows you to gang up 3-on-1, which probably guarantees breakthroughs and consequent rolling of the line.
I did not analyse whether e.g. orc units get a point break vs. similar other units with a smaller footprint. That might be an interesting excercise.
-
I love KoW and don't on a single Mantic product. And that's why, even if KoW was only half as good as it is, I'd still play. I love companies and games that don't force their products down my throat. Watch those Beasts of War videos they posted last month with James Hewitt, a Manyic employee. They STRONGLY encourage people to be creative with their armies.
Hell, I play with Lego figs and they even included it in a blog post. Here's a link to my armies:
http://forum.manticblog.com/showthread.php?4739-My-Lego-KoW-units
Your Lego armies are simply awesome! Dobbie in the sylvan kin is almost as good as mushroom head man lol