Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Conflicts that came in from the Cold => Topic started by: Arlequín on 31 October 2013, 04:07:29 PM
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Folks, you may, or may not, be aware that Mantic are running a Mars Attacks Miniatures Game (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/mars-attacks-the-miniatures-game) Kickstarter. It's set in the present/near future and features somewhat generic US military as one of the lines on offer.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ml9tCN0KKrM/UnJ829VZpGI/AAAAAAAAP8w/aQOd5ggr2GY/w600-h400-no/9c0109a5c7eeec46e91d6da165ab4cef_large-.png)
Besides these figures there is a rather decent Squad Leader and a guy with a rocket launcher (currently a RPG type, but they are going to remodel this to an AT4).
I've been pressing the case for the addition of an M249 SAW gunner and for a more accurate representation of the US Army squad structure (i.e. Squad Leader and two fire teams:- FT leader with AR/GL, SAW Gunner, 2 riflemen), on the basis that historical gamers might be willing to pledge on the KS just for these.
Can I get a head count of anyone interested if this was the case please? It all helps add to my argument (or not as the case may be). :)
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I chose the second option as closest to:
More accurate weapon selection and a realistic squad organization. Right now, as is, not going to be considered.
Not that I am actively looking towards buying more "big" figures, moving a lot of stuff to 3 mm for battles and debating between 15 and 20 mm for smaller skirmishes.
Gracias,
Glenn
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Glenn, as with all polls, the more that contribute, whatever their opinion, helps give a better picture. I appreciate that the options are 'wooly', but I'm only trying for a vague idea.
Thanks though. :)
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Well, I am in the camp of 'thanks, no thanks'. While I applaud the effort I am put off by the messed up unit composition and by the cartoonish look. Plus I already own 2 infantry squads and a weapons squad from Empress and frankly I do not think I need more. How many 28mm I need for a single table?
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Having spent the afternoon playing Mars Attacks with these very models, I have to say that I think they look really good in the flesh (so to speak). I was also arguing to get a SAW and so on to give them a proper weapon selection. Might happen. My point was that they are fairly close to a proper squad and it wouldn't take a lot to push them into being more broadly useful.
Surprised to hear Arrigo call them cartoonish. The anatomy and equipment is far more accurate proportions than most gaming figures on the market. Whilst Empress make some lovely figures, it's difficult to cast the weapons in accurate scale in metal without them being very flimsy.
Anyway, I like them, and think they're even better in person.
Putting my vote in for a bigger/more accurate squad :D
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I do like them, I admit, so I am somewhat biased in their favour... I don't see 'cartoonish' either, but each to their own. :)
I was also arguing to get a SAW and so on to give them a proper weapon selection. Might happen. My point was that they are fairly close to a proper squad and it wouldn't take a lot to push them into being more broadly useful.
Blimey Q, if you can't tip the scales, what chance do I have? ::)
I made the statement that I thought none MA gamers would go for them if sorted into a proper squad... just trying to see if I was right or wrong on that, before making more of a fool of myself.
:)
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I'm backing the KS too, and I can defo. go with a SAW in the mix.
(I'll be using them for an X-Com/Xenonauts squad as well as MA).
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Blimey Q, if you can't tip the scales, what chance do I have? ::)
Maybe we can all tip the scales between us. I only mentioned it a couple of hours ago so let's see what they say. At a guess the issue is things like what will fit on the sprue rather than them being obstinate for the sake of it. Nobody I know at Mantic is any good at resisting making more toys unless there is a good technical reason for it. Or the accountant tells them off ;)
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I might consider it, if they had accurate weapons. As for them looking cartoony I will say that there helmets look to be a little to snug.
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As now is the time to get any tweaks like this done, I had a look at the helmets. To start with I agreed that they looked a bit too close fitting. However, after looking at a whole bunch of photos of real soldiers I can't decide. Some of them look close fitting too, while others look like their helmets are so loose they'd fall off all the time.
Partly I think it's to do with the amount of bits that get attached to real helmets which make them look bigger - sometimes.
It could also be to do with the helmets coming in different sizes, so some individual troopers have ones that are a bit big or small. Not sure. I'm more confused after doing 10 minutes of picture research than I was to start with.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
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Apparently we should, also be asking whether they're modelling the latest ACHE (Advanced Combat Helmet) or the older PASGT. I think the newer one is slightly smaller, but they both seem to come in 5 sizes.
I'm sure the good old M1 came in a single size. Ah, the good old days...
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Commissar should be able to answer that, as he's worn one a few times... is it one size suits all? :)
I have to admit 'ultra-modern' is not my forte, if I could say I had one, I'm very old school... so any input would be welcome.
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Current and previous generations of US Army helmets seem to come in 5 sizes.
Comments from those that have worn them would be both helpful and interesting.
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The M1 definitely did... that's why ARVN and other 'smaller' soldiers looked very odd in theirs in the main. I know the current one is cushioned and adjustable, but that's about it.
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I'm getting some because they're in the game box but I doubt I'll ever paint them.
I think they're fine as game pieces and do their job well as part of the boxed game but they don't work for me as separate infantry figures that I'd use for my modern games.
My main reason are the poses, they're game piece poses not fire team poses and they wouldn't look any good based up as a team regardless of their weapon load out.
I already have US forces to oppose a Martian Invasion and US forces to fight in Mogadishu and Afghanistan. I wouldn't add these to either group.
I'll happily move them around a Mars Attacks board if someone wants to play the game though, they're fine for that.
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Quick correction, in a USMC squad the fire team leader has the grenade launcher, in an Army squad the grenadier is not the team leader.
I am a HUGE fan of them including a SAW. the 'What fits on a sprue' excuse is crap, flat out crap. A SAW gunner will take the exact same space on the sprue that an M4 or M203 (or better yet an M320) gunner takes. Since the 90k stretch goal was for more poses, and the figures are digitally sculpted it is nothing but laziness keeping Mantic from switching the weapon on one or two of the poses to a SAW. It really is silly for them to not do so.
As for the other gear, there is no way Mantic is going to make the effort to get it correct. The load out on the grenadiers should be different from the M4 armed guys, the SL also gets a different load out, as do the team leaders. The accuracy of the armor and load bearing stuff is great for a game based on trading cards and comic books, but isn't going to win accuracy awards.
Having said that, it (to me) is acceptable IF they get the weapon mix right.
Another thing, the RPG gunner was butt stupid and they have said they will fix it, but intend to base the missile off of the Javelin instead of the AT4. I can live with that, but it is again a silly thing to do (and for the 'sprue don't fit' excuse is even worse when you look at the size of a javelin vice an AT4 and the appropriate firing positions for each). And I have to ask, How the Hell does a guy manage to lug a Javelin and the control module/sight around but no one managed to bring a SAW? Remember, the javelin isn't found in the squad (it is a platoon level weapon) but there are two SAWs in the squad.
I'm also sick of the folks making up 'fluff' to account for a lack of SAWs. Two of nine weapons in a squad are M249s. In other units you may actually find more of them (My 6 man staff section had 2 SAWs, my hummer mounted recon platoon had 1 per 3 man 'squad', along with a M203, and each 6 man section (two squads) added a M240 (and had a .50 and a MK19 on the 2 hummers) for three dismounted MGs on a 6 man patrol.
So, rant mode over. Yes, Mantic should include a SAW gunner figure, and the 'it don't fit on the sprue' excuse is crap. The 90k stretch goal covers the funding. It is laziness to not have one at this point.
:P
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I really think the human troops missed the boat the dock the seaside town the lot.
In the interest of transparency I would of rathered 50's era guys. Thats my bias.
That is the winning response. :D
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I really think the human troops missed the boat the dock the seaside town the lot.
In the interest of transparency I would of rathered 50's era guys. Thats my bias.
That is the winning response. :D
I would have to agree wholeheartedly... despite the focus of this thread and as it's a valid viewpoint, I've added the option for this to the poll... you can change your votes on there if you wish.
It's been touted as a possible 'expansion' down the line... how far down is hard to tell, but any votes for it can't hurt. Certainly there's at least one fan for it in the Mantic hierarchy and the TOPPS liaison likes it from the '50 Years of Mars Attacks' angle.
It won't change the main focus of the game itself, but at least you might get the option to swap out the 'Modern' troops in your games, or of course get your hands on some figures otherwise unavailable for the era to use away from the game.
;)
However I do take the point that the original cards featured the 'now' military of its day and that's the line followed by the new cards/comics. The modern setting also seems popular with the current backers of the game, which is where the dollars are and the 'nostalgia' demographic, i.e. 'Gamers of a certain age' and younger 'Retro Fans' seems a relative minority.
The Martians have retained their look because it just wouldn't be Mars Attacks otherwise. :)
I think they're fine as game pieces and do their job well as part of the boxed game but they don't work for me as separate infantry figures that I'd use for my modern games.
My main reason are the poses, they're game piece poses not fire team poses and they wouldn't look any good based up as a team regardless of their weapon load out.
I hadn't considered that, or indeed noticed it until you mentioned it... but if it puts you off, it's sure to put off a few people. Thanks for that.
:)
So, rant mode over. Yes, Mantic should include a SAW gunner figure, and the 'it don't fit on the sprue' excuse is crap. The 90k stretch goal covers the funding. It is laziness to not have one at this point.
:P
I agree, as I mention above, 'Ultra-Modern' wasn't my first choice, but if they are going to do it, they should do it properly-ish. Thanks for your support and input in the KS comments by the way.
:)
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Some useful comments guys.
The answer to the question of the appropriate period of GI to use is simple. MA is and always has been based "now", whenever that was. That's the main thread of the cards and comics and the one which is most appropriate because this is a licensed product. If all the GIs in Mars Attacks wore shakos then that's what Mantic would have to do. Of course, there's always room for delving into "historical" Martian invasions, and this could go back much further than the 50s. I wrote about that on my blog the other day (http://quirkworthy.com/2013/10/18/the-astounding-60s/).
Producing a game to go alongside a newly released range of cards and comics that didn't match them would be odd. I'm not sure Topps would be happy about that.
When I said a SAW gunner might not fit on the sprue I meant in addition to what was there already, not as a replacement. Same for any other variations. The cost of making minor changes isn't as much of an issue as the time. However long it takes, it still takes that sculptor away from doing other work and that, plus sprue space will probably be the main limits to what can be done.
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I changed my vote to '1950 style' but it won't happen because everything in the game is stylistically modern.
As for SAW gunners, does it matter? Are there going to be rules for their use?
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I'm not in the Kickstarter for the the game but for the minis. I suspect many are too. The game is just a bonus. I already have some Empress squads on the way so no need for more. Getting them with the game but don't really care for them except as board game pieces. Would prefer an accurate squad though as I am getting them. Add the SAWs by replacing two of the duplicate poses.
Unless the squads are balanced/realistic I don't see much possibility of post-Kickstarter, not-for-Mars-Attacks, sales. Taking the long view here but no need to reduce the number of potential future buyers of your products. Why would anyone looking to buy just some soldiers, except those looking to get more only for Mars Attacks, buy an inaccurate squad of soldiers when there are lots of more accurate options out there? Some lost future sales there.
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Another vote for retro cos then I'd actually have some use for them.
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As for SAW gunners, does it matter? Are there going to be rules for their use?
Possibly.
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I wasn't trying to have a go Scurv, just explain why modern. I quite like the retro look too, but some of the new cards are quite evocative (and often a lot better artwork IMO) so there's appeal there too. If I could only pick one for my own set, I'm really not sure which I'd have. As I said, in game it makes little odds.
Old farts edition? It's an appealing marketing angle ;)
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After reading the comments, particularly my own, (Note to self: Priorities, guy, priorities,) I changed my vote.
No sense buying a game I wouldn't play much less the reality that I shouldn't buy in a scale range (25+) I am trying to get out of as much as possible plus as an old fart/grognard I decided the weapon mix at that size is critical.
May the KS do well.
Gracias,
Glenn
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Mars Attacks OFE ... does have a certain ring to it. :D
I changed my vote to '1950 style' but it won't happen because everything in the game is stylistically modern.
Only to a point. Some of the characters and scenery are suitably timeless (but not all) and of course the Martians haven't changed.
Personally I plan on swapping out the Modern Marines/Army anyway... but it sucks a bit that I'll probably have to use WW2 figures instead of something much more 'specific' to the point in time of the originals, but hey.
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...and of course the Martians haven't changed.
Apparently this style of Martian is current from the 1930s. I asked.
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Hi every one, I have been fairly vocal on the Mars Attacks Kickstarter from the start about a SAW trooper, I quite like the modern style of the miniatures and the uses beside Mars Attacks. I think the game will be good and the added benefit of using the modern ruin terrain and human troops in other modern, post apocalyptic and future style games is an extra benefit.
I know that companies like Black Scorpion do Good SAW troopers that might match in with mantics plastic US soldiers, but I prefer to support the kickstarter. If mantic doesn't end up with a SAW trooper I will be sourcing some from Black Scorpion and he will be getting some extra orders from me. I think I could also use their snipers and their officers as will if I have to make an order.
Its good to see some of the people from this forum also involved in the Kickstarter forum.
Also good to see that Quickworthy can see that there is some interest out side the kickstarter forum about SAWs in their kickstarter.
Good also to hear that their may be some SAW rules in the Mars Attacks Game Quickworthy.
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Latest update mentions SAW will be put into the set.
:D
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Good also to hear that their may be some SAW rules in the Mars Attacks Game Quirkworthy.
Yup, SAWs in now.
Spent some time discussing US Army fire teams and so on with the guys this morning and it looks like good news ;)
And if we're putting the models in then I'll include rules for them too.
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That is responsive!
Ack! Ack! Ack!
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Thanks Quickworthy for the input you put in with the guys you work with at Mantic about Fire Teams and squad dynamics. Having a SAW trooper to add to the squad may mix the game play up a little with any special rules you may add like you will for your missile launcher trooper. And even if you don't end up having any special rules for the SAW trooper I still will be very happy because in my minds eye the squad will be more balanced as it will be a little closer to a real life squad set up.
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Excellent... so now we can start asking for M240Bs, M19 AGLs and a LAV-25. :D
I'm joking... I'm happy with that line-up, look out Zombies and Martians. :)
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Thanks Quickworthy for the input you put in with the guys you work with at Mantic about Fire Teams and squad dynamics. Having a SAW trooper to add to the squad may mix the game play up a little with any special rules you may add like you will for your missile launcher trooper. And even if you don't end up having any special rules for the SAW trooper I still will be very happy because in my minds eye the squad will be more balanced as it will be a little closer to a real life squad set up.
If we get what I think we will we should have the correct 9-man squad plus a missile launcher from platoon assets. Squad leader (Sgt) plus two 4-man fire teams with a SAW in each. That's the plan :)
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Given that the characters from the comics include an Aztec and a medieval knight there would be all sorts of scope if the game did well enough. That, as ever, is the limiting factor in that sort of thing.
Actually, it wouldn't take much to adapt the humans to a wide variety of periods and I've already pencilled that as an idea to come back to on Quirkworthy after the dust has settled and we know what's coming out officially ;)
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No new cards yet. Working on hero stats and scenarios at the mo.
There is already a knight hero and Aztec hero in the KS from the comics ;)
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Scurv, the individual heroes 'out of time' are escaped solitary 'abductees' rather than Mars versus whoever... although there is nothing to stop someone gaming such a thing, should they wish.
Anyway as the purpose of the thread and poll is now redundant, I'm closing this off. Thank you all for your input and I'd like to remind you that there is a Mars Attacks discussion thread on the Future Wars Board, if you wish to talk about the game in general.
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=58838.0
:)