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Having been a rule heavy gamer for many a year (Star Fleet Battles with ALL supplements anyone) I have realised that simplicity has its advantages :) and I have drifted away from such tomes to games such as Songs of Blades and 'one page' games from the 'net.
Recently, my eye has been drawn to the series of games by Bob Cordrey based on the 'Portable Wargame' (http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~warden/portable_wargame/index.html) series of notes / rules and the fixed grid and limited set of options you have.
I'm not heading down the chess board route but a slightly larger table for me has its advantage so this thread may give you a smile or two as I battle with new ideas for myself.
First thing - scale or size.
Not a hope as:
Figures are going to be 15mm
Buildings 2mm
Trees - depends on what is cheap on eBay
Hills - a bit smaller than a 2p
If you look at the examples around the web (links to follow), you will see it really does not matter so I'm starting with a few Brigade 2mm Arab buildings and a fort:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_n2EyGAKpxo/UngFjdNjouI/AAAAAAAADl0/lAOj_XCU_OM/s640/P1000662.JPG)
and for an idea of size these are on/with a UK 2P coin:
The Fort:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-peZZtmc6d8Y/UngFjfjlWEI/AAAAAAAADl0/-DyL6QZHKl0/s800/P1000665.JPG)
The hills:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-fJb5e7hbIp8/UngFkS3EbZI/AAAAAAAADl0/R_TPIHDZ7qs/s800/P1000668.JPG)
Second - The 'table'
The board was going to be a 2x2 canvas frame but to start with I am going to try a 24x18inch canvas board with the grid made out of balsa strips.
It will be a desert style board based on an undercoat of pale umber with a 'sand' texture spray over it to break up the pale single colour. I am hoping the spray (Plastikote Stone) will save me using the classic sand / glue mix.
If anything the grid is giving me the pain - I'm not sure the balsa I have will be thin enough (hence the board rather than the framed canvas) but it will be worth trying to see the result…
Third - the figures
To start with I am going for the Peter Pig Sudan range
I've even ordered a copy of Khartoum on DVD to get me in the mood lol
So thats it for now - just a few tasks during the week to do:
- Get the flash off the 2mm buildings and get them undercoated
- Get the resin hills washed and dry and if possible undercoated
With luck I'll get the first game this year.
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Looking forward to your build thread Andrew!
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So buildings acts just as mission objectives ?
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Ooh, I like the look of this. Thanks for pointing out the whole portable wargames page, it looks rather interesting. I have been looking for a ruleset that is enough of en excuse to get germies 2mm sci-fi minies and this might be it.
I really like the idea you are going with, the out of scale buildings and terrain reminds me of tactical computer games like advanced wars. Very stylized but that doesn't mean it can be an intense wargame. :-*
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Very interesting. I want to follow your progress. :)
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Thank you all for the support and interest.
So buildings acts just as mission objectives ?
With the simplistic rules I am thinking of using, terrain effects combat or movement by +/-1 factor or may block line of site / movement for that turn and as scale is irrelevant (i.e. 1 block of figures represent a 'bunch of people' or buildings rather than anything formal), the idea of fighting house to house in a town does not fit.
One advantage seen on the original games is that hills / mountains where flat topped so troops can be placed on them. I may rule the resin ones are 'impassable mountains' and make a few small hills along the lines of my islands (but flatter of course):
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-NoG9iLrg_Lo/SvkbPYc6GsI/AAAAAAAAAeo/W_8fLkjRdDg/s400/DSCN0782%255B3%255D.jpg)
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Its a bit hard to judge from the pictures, and I'm not sure what scale grid your using either... Anyhow, some of those maintains look like you could place them in between two positions. On the borders of your grid so to speak.
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Its a bit hard to judge from the pictures, and I'm not sure what scale grid your using either...
The reason I hand not mentioned the grid size is that I do not know o_o With the trial board being 18inch I will get 9 squares at 2inch allowing a fair bit for movement across the table compared to 6 three inch squares and when each move is taken as whole squares every square counts esp. as infantry move at 1 square and light artillery having 8 squares range.
I do like the idea of sitting the mountains along the edges and hereby steal the idea lol
In my mind I am not even sure about laying out the grid itself:
- Balsa gives a clear grid but it will need careful cutting and remains raised
- Masking lines off with tape has never worked for me as I end up with rough edges or the mask not lifting correctly
- Drawing the lines gives a jagged look or runs from the pen as it goes up and down over bumps
- Putting dots on the board may work well if I use a fair sized dot (and gets over the raised edge issue)
- Marking the corners with '+' symbols somehow may work - tile spacers would be too big/deep
Maybe I'll junk the balsa strip for now and go with dots / corners punched out of card / plastic to raise them up. I have a good industrial hole punch at work that will do the job and some spare plastic sheet…
Too many ideas o_o in my mind me thinks…
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I'm not sure what you have in mind for flocking or base material for your board as that might be important when considering things.
I do think you might profit from looking at some custom bloodbowl boards, I have seen tables of all sorts of terrain (snow to desert and swamp to urban) and all of the methods you described and more are used to denote the spaces.
How are you planning to base the miniatures? because 2 inches sounds quite large. I mean for reference DnD miniatures are 28mm and they tend to use a 1 inch grid just fine...
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I'm not sure what you have in mind for flocking or base material for your board as that might be important when considering things.
Simple paint job for the undercoat and a 'sand' type spray over it to add texture / colour
I do think you might profit from looking at some custom bloodbowl boards, I have seen tables of all sorts of terrain (snow to desert and swamp to urban) and all of the methods you described and more are used to denote the spaces.
The bloodbowl boards gave me most of the ideas running rampant in my mind now lol My fave had to be the guy who nearly gassed himself heating a wire to 'melt' foam board :o Decided that was not for me.
How are you planning to base the miniatures? because 2 inches sounds quite large. I mean for reference DnD miniatures are 28mm and they tend to use a 1 inch grid just fine...
Plain MDF bases with multiple figures (15mm) per base - very little scatter / plant material on them.
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Cool project. I will surely watch this as it unfolds.
If I were to start something like this, I'd probably go with a bunch of terrain tiles that store easily but are geomorphic for lots of different configurations. For scale, I'd go with 10mm because there's a great selection, small enough for sizeable armies to face off, and still big enough that single figures can be used as heroes or whatever.
Keep it coming :]
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Plain MDF bases with multiple figures (15mm) per base - very little scatter / plant material on them.
Ah yes then I can see why you would want larger spaces.
I am very much thinking of adapting those rules to a sci-fi game. Sounds like a "simple" project for once. lol
I would either go with a scorched in grid tough that might be dificult. Alternatively I would do dots or plusses in a lighter or darker shade of the base. In my experiance the human eye is trained in recognizing those kind of paterns so dots or crosses when done consistandly would be enough.
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Cool project. I will surely watch this as it unfolds.
If I were to start something like this, I'd probably go with a bunch of terrain tiles that store easily but are geomorphic for lots of different configurations. For scale, I'd go with 10mm because there's a great selection, small enough for sizeable armies to face off, and still big enough that single figures can be used as heroes or whatever.
Keep it coming :]
Thank you for the support (and all others to be honest).
Be warned this can be strangely addictive - I started with wood hex tiles, then collected Heroscape tiles (but ducked out on the flock to date) and now moving to a solid board lol
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I am very much thinking of adapting those rules to a sci-fi game. Sounds like a "simple" project for once. lol
Interesting idea - would you go for a 19th cent War of the Worlds style or futuristic version?
I did get a couple of old Metagames (Hot Spot and Sticks and Stones) but never took the idea further - I wonder if many board games could be simplified and moved to this format?
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Interesting idea - would you go for a 19th cent War of the Worlds style or futuristic version?
I did get a couple of old Metagames (Hot Spot and Sticks and Stones) but never took the idea further - I wonder if many board games could be simplified and moved to this format?
... I hadn't even considered WotW style, but that would be rather nice also. lol
No I was thinking more along the lines of using pretty much the modern rules but using sci-fi version of the unit types. Scout cars are still scout cars and artillery is still artillery. Sure the ranges would be higher but that's a non factor as the board is an abstraction. From there I would see what I needed to add on, perhaps rules for alternative types of movement grav and walkers and the like.
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some interesting ideas so far 8)
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Next idea is to use felt for a wadi or other terrain and I found these sheets in Hobbycraft:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-DUvp7K28VNg/Unv666bJkgI/AAAAAAAADmM/DlCzuHefQ60/s800/P1000672.JPG)
I could not find any that matched at the edge though!
It is tempting just to cut the sheet up and use it for hills / dry areas and use a plain brown one for dried up roads so keeping the whole game reasonably flat…
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153 Windows, 46 Doors and 2 domes lol
Buildings done:
Undercoat in Halfords grey car primer
Two coats of Vallejo Dark Sand
Doors done in Gryphonne sepia wash
Windows done in Badab black wash
Touch up on the over spill from the ink running in a couple of places
Domes done in Vallejo dead white
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xouyR9-WVxc/Un6Vm-6NF3I/AAAAAAAADm0/O-jQ80xwoSQ/s800/P1000675.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_JOwImaGT5M/Un6Vmd7WlDI/AAAAAAAADm0/rzgCP_lxccE/s640/P1000676.JPG)
I did wash the fort in a watery Badab black and highlight the tops of the crenellations to make them show up a bit more:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/--ki84cFbzt8/Un6Vm9lM9fI/AAAAAAAADm0/5FIpD_FpSs8/s640/P1000679.JPG)
Next the mountains…
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For your grid I would recommend corner dots, or even crosses if you feel so inclined.
We play a lot of PBI at school (which uses 6 inch squares) so have cloths for the tables (storage is an issue) marked with dots or crosses at the corners of each square.
If we are not playing PBI we either ignore the dots (although they come in handy for some games, eg EOTD defining deployment zones etc) or turn the cloths upside down, where (mostly) the ink didn't come through, so either the dots are very faint or completely invisible.
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For your grid I would recommend corner dots, or even crosses if you feel so inclined.
Thank you for the insight from a real game - it confirms the ideas that have been bubbling around my head all week. I had reached the same conclusion that the points needed to be subtle and not as intrusive as the balsa. As such I have picked up some small sticky backed gm stones from Hobbycraft (3mm black) (http://www.hobbycraft.co.uk/hobbycraft-self-adhesive-gem-stones-3-mm-round-black-100pcs/566608-1000) and each these are now my starting point :D
I'm going to put these on each corner first, spray glue / varnish and then paint over them to help hold down.
Did you, for your games, use the RFCM sets and made your own cloth?
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We have a lot of home made cloths (over a dozen now).
All green, but some are more green than others:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=11923.0
By RFCM sets do you mean the figure boxes?
If so, no.
We have quite an eclectic mix of players who tend to buy what they like the look of. One 10mm player, one 20mm player, and a few platoons of "club figures" (mostly Dutch but also Poles, Russians, and Germans) who appear by proxy as any nation.
Quite a few Plastic Soldier Company vehicles, or Zvezda. (Local Boyes store stock both)
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Just one more thing for today - the hill are done.
A basic black spray (after a good wash) and then the dark sand and pale umber where used in a dry brush. Not sure if I will add some green flock long term?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7dZCty4Qoos/Un-vzBVriuI/AAAAAAAADnM/8i8WXqiNAbI/s800/P1000681.JPG)
Assembly of the basic board next :)
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looking good :)
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Hm, probably my monitor but they look more grey then brownish. However with the colours you are describing I would inmagine they would blend in with dessert like terrain more so then my colour settings show.
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Hm, probably my monitor but they look more grey then brownish. However with the colours you are describing I would inmagine they would blend in with dessert like terrain more so then my colour settings show.
I think your monitor is fine - I've since looked at them in daylight and the colour is really subdued and flat - a very slight tint is present but not compared to the paints I used. Only thing I can think is the black being enamel is stronger then the three coats of acrylic I used. I can live with them as is. If I add anymore I may as well have painted them rather than dry brush…
I have got the dots added to the board - no picture yet (too dark in here now) but will show a white square with black dots tomorrow if I get time.
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They look a little green to me - rather like the forum background!
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Right - the most exciting picture of the evening (well from me at least)…
The start of the board:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-RHt_CkLeyJQ/UoZl1y5OBcI/AAAAAAAADnc/GAvTCA-pGio/s800/IMG_0465.JPG)
I know - its a white rectangle with black dots on it but admire the quality and evenness of the dots - OK I give up!
I've decided to put dots on the edge of the board as well to help define the squares but I'll save you the picture till I have it coated in sand spray :D
(No comments about the grey looking on 2 down 2 in from the left - its black honest guv)
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The spots do not stick :o :'( :o
The glue on the bottom of the dots is a rubber type gunk and as well as peeling off the carrier film has not hardened in the last few days and a knock with my finger moves them. Out with the superglue.
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Sorry to hear about your dots not sticking around... They do look like a very visually clear layout, this whole minimalist approach really keeps appealing.
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To add to the woe, looks like the gem colour runs when superglue is added.
Not to worry paint goes on tomorrow if I get time.
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Two coats of W&N Galeria Pale umber now on the board (why did I buy 250mL - have 2/3rds the pot left) and all gems are still stuck on :)
Looks like it has covered the running gem colour fine but has not dried hard today so it will be next week before I can spray the sand coating unless I can get up early in the morning (dark by the time I am home)...
I have ordered some 35mmx35mm and 35mmx70mm rounded bases from Warbases today to give me a flat area for hills / plants to sit on as this size will fit between the dots and may become the standard size for the figures - though I think 35mmx20mm may be better.
I am not the fastest figure painter in the world (sold some 20yr old figures last year - still unpainted) and am dreading the pile of lead growing more without a lot of time for painting so two things will be done:
- Take a days holiday and lock my self away for a 'me day' :o
- Start the games off with paper figures from The Junior General (http://www.juniorgeneral.org/index.php/figure/figureList/19thcentury#34)
Who knows - I may even put up some figures for sale - just to stop the lead pile crushing the house foundations as it grows again…
Though the paper figures lack both the weight of metal and detail, the idea of using paper cut outs for the game sits very well in my mind and a few of the sets (esp the Belgian Troops - Top Down (http://www.juniorgeneral.org/index.php/figure/view/Belgians) would give me all the figures to have a generic blue vs green battle. I have both picture mount card and foam core around the house and even paper glue (from my Ebbles Paper alien games) so ti looks like a go'er to start. Christmas is still reachable for the first game.
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Not a great deal of progress but I'm please with the results so far:
The round bases have arrived from Warbases (http://war-bases.co.uk/index.php?route=common/home). The small ones are perfect but the large ones are too small - more thought on my side was needed (or a bit of paper and scissors >:(
This pic shows both the bases and the next stage of the board. It has had two coats of pale umber and one good spray of sand. This is given it an odd texture but I like it. A dry brush and a little flock will complete this.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-xcbehVARFWA/UpJP8J0heeI/AAAAAAAADn4/97m4BZPKLsA/s800/P1000687.JPG)
Now the mountains are set on the correct colour board they sit a lot better.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4hWT5PMYKUk/UpJP8pkT7oI/AAAAAAAADn0/Svd3U1DlI60/s800/P1000690.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xYYP_hMyQwU/UpJP8tSqg1I/AAAAAAAADn8/UKOhR-ghC5c/s800/P1000691.JPG)
Despite liking teethe buildings loose, I think they will have to be based - darn small for my thick fingers…
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Well after 8 months pause I made myself get back into the swing of this game :o
A few little bits had been progressed over the interim - I got the 'correct' bases from Warbases, I picked up a few dice 'boxes' and decided that the figures where too small to loose lay so made myself a small town:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9UTn8Un1NC8/U9VlMcc92qI/AAAAAAAAD4w/wWwYbCseVBQ/s640/IMG_0015.JPG)
The bases was simply sprayed with the 'stone' spray used on the main board and the buildings stuck down with superglue gel.
I did make one key mistake though - I decided to add a bit of flock and grass tufts to break up the bare patches but I should have kept it simple not added these on. The tufts are the smallest I could find and dwarf the buildings (need to trim them down) and the flock colour ran within the super glue. I'll leave this on for now but not happy over the result - maybe I should add more detailing in to 'hide' the bits but to be honest it should have been plain all the way.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-eDXiQzwALes/U9VlLnMoOmI/AAAAAAAAD40/grB_Xmct7aE/s400/IMG_0018.JPG)
At the Scarborough show I found a set of laser cut squares and small dice on the Pendraken stand from Minibits (http://www.minibits.net/Dice-D6-c14/Hit-Markers-sc60/) designed for hit markers. They come with three colours of die (white / red / blue) so I can have red = attack, blue = defence and white for troop casualties. Looking at the result of using the unpainted wood I may paint these black as spraying them stops the dice sitting correctly as it is so gloopy / thick.
I know the pic below is not sharp - its either flare / reflection or blurred 7mm dice today!
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-upYe_qHr900/U9VlJ8PzNrI/AAAAAAAAD4k/hWJ-e6KFHiU/s400/IMG_0016.JPG)
Before anyone asks 'how are these going to sit over the corner markers?' - I have dig a small hole / indentation in the centre of the board with a knife and wiped white glue on the area to seal it. This then goes over the gem and the board sits reasonably flat.
I decided that I will base the mountains using half square sized bases (OK rectangular is the word I should have used) and am currently waiting for the stone paint to dry solid over the next 48 hours.
Items that I still need to resolve are:
1) Roads and rivers
2) Trees - thinking of cheap plastic palm
3) Low hills - still tempted to use foam / felt as discussed to try it out.
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I managed to get a few more scenic items sorted this weekend:
First up some rough terrain split into two main types - the first being low cut grassland that will just slow down a unit if they enter or cross the area, the second being heavy bush that will really delay a unit:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3lzNP-gYNow/U-fM2DqHLBI/AAAAAAAAD6Y/pPPlCmKvLu4/s640/IMG_0078.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kSSJNndWB9c/U-fM1xBl-KI/AAAAAAAAD6U/rbX4oDfDLtU/s640/IMG_0079.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-zx7UAxAFWWU/U-fM1dzfOSI/AAAAAAAAD6Q/xNxLHKY4hu4/s640/IMG_0080.JPG)
The grassland is simply Army Painter Highland tufts with a sprinkle of static grass. The static grass has been a bit of a pain - not having a 'fly swatter' device I tried a small puffer bottle - it may work for smaller patches but not for the large squares very well (had a habit of blowing patterns into the grass) but at least it stood up! I would tell you the maker but the hoover swallowed the bag while getting rid of the mess left behind by the bottle (I still itch) >:(
The second is just white / grey reindeer moss hot glued to a wooden base. I've managed to pick up a bag of this now as it will come in handy for my Inuit / Eskimo ice games.
Next up are the palm trees currently drying having been sanded and stuck to 1p coins (tail side of course so the head remains clear).
Then just low hills (possibly foam) and roads and I should be ready for troops.
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Looking very good do like the portable wargame rules - fun and fast see: http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~warden/portable_wargame/archive.html
and http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~warden/portable_wargame/downloads.html
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Looking very good do like the portable wargame rules - fun and fast see: http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~warden/portable_wargame/archive.html
and http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~warden/portable_wargame/downloads.html
If anything this site and Bob Cordery have been the inspiration for this game more than any other idea or article. It's a shame that the site is not updated with battle reports as they can get lost among cruise trips and holidays on his normal site http://wargamingmiscellany.blogspot.co.uk/ (though the current finds in his shed are interesting)...
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1 year and 4 months later I've finally got the troop figures stuck onto some bases - pictures coming soon lol
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On Etsy, they had some 3D printed building and "roads" for Catan that might work with this.
https://www.etsy.com/shop/Build3D?ref=listing-shop-header-item-count
(https://img0.etsystatic.com/055/0/8854835/il_570xN.728391668_qtrq.jpg)
(https://img0.etsystatic.com/124/0/8854835/il_570xN.874674446_mqgr.jpg)
(https://img1.etsystatic.com/028/0/8854835/il_570xN.634816927_1cq1.jpg)
(https://img1.etsystatic.com/052/0/8854835/il_570xN.674885855_2y2h.jpg)
(https://img1.etsystatic.com/028/0/8854835/il_570xN.590286247_6hba.jpg)
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Thanks for those pictures and link Puuka. I originally decided to go with the Arab style buildings for the start of the game for plot reasons and the minor fact that I am using the Peter Pig 15mm Sudan (http://www.peterpig.co.uk/page22.html) range of figures for the majority of the initial troops. I find these cleaner and lacking the striped effect often seen on printed models. The range has grown since I first started and now has some great classic British and European houses that will get used at some point.
So onto the first set of troop pictures - Regular Infantry (4 to a base) , Camel Scouts (2 to a base) and Dervish irregulars (3 to a base):
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0XN9OrB3mxw/VoE8XD_zMII/AAAAAAAAEAI/fd3V9bKv_B4/s640-Ic42/P1020810.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RlfW1T1VQ0k/VoE8YLhUZgI/AAAAAAAAEAY/thYCIeO-Z6I/s1640-Ic42/P1020811.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-31NwqxF_tEc/VoE8XzkzXZI/AAAAAAAAEAU/nbyIIbQmsL0/s640-Ic42/P1020812.jpg)
(Right one needs a little bend at the ankles looking at this!)
As you can see - these are painted 'high-gloss' style (by Dave Parsons in Sheffield) but still need a little base work - ( and a dust :o ) to complete the look - just a touch up on the figures / glue as I will leave the wood painted but lacking decoration for now (as per the old Briton ranges). Bases are by War Bases (http://war-bases.co.uk) cut to order to fit in the squares with space around them and painted to match the base board and a thick black marker to even out the laser cut edge.
Rules and bits will appear soon along with the first AAR - look for that in the VSF section rather than here next year (OK next week is my plan). I'll keep this to boards, figures and terrain while the other thread will follow the misadventures adventures of the tea drinking troops and the problems they face...
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Really looking forward to seeing more here - the portable game rules are fantastic and surprisingly quick, fun and addictive.
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Really looking forward to seeing more here - the portable game rules are fantastic and surprisingly quick, fun and addictive.
Well just for you (OK others may see the link - I hope) these are my version 1 of the rules I plan to build on NEW BLOG RULES PAGE (http://adventuresinafarland.blogspot.co.uk/p/rules.html) The blog may not take off - I got to the point with the old ones that updating them was more important than the games o_o Not letting that happen this time but as a space on the net it will do for now...
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Lovely stuff Andrew, great to see the project moving forward.
I still can't believe you painted all the windows on those tiny houses!
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Perhaps you can take a pair of nail scissors and cut away at the too-large-tufts of shrubbery ??? :)
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One thing I had been wondering about was how to represent the fact the guns had fired and needed a PIP to reload.
I dithered over using a dice marker (as per the town), a plastic ring or even knowing together a specific figure or model but in the end fell back on the pre-cut plastic shell from Figures In Comfort (http://www.figuresincomfort.co.uk/products/tokens-1/fic-reload-tokens.html):
(http://www.figuresincomfort.co.uk/admin/upload/product/thumbnails/5421772fa223a_272x300.jpg)
Handy as I found the Tray #05 fits the standard figure base exactly (Heroquest models by the name) or 35x45mm :D
So now my cold has cleared up - painting bases continue (only around a dozen to do) and first game commences.
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Fantastic service from FIC - foam and markers arrived today.
Anyone ever found any use for the foam blocks that you remove?