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Other Stuff => General Wargames and Hobby Discussion => Topic started by: grant on 20 November 2013, 05:54:28 AM

Title: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: grant on 20 November 2013, 05:54:28 AM
Just a thought tonight: is there a set of rules that has thoroughly blown your mind? Something so innovative and unique, you just stopped playing anything else?

Could be any period, any scale - any set of rules.

What did it and why?
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: tnjrp on 20 November 2013, 07:29:52 AM
Just a thought tonight: is there a set of rules that has thoroughly blown your mind?
No.

Nuff said 8)
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: redzed on 20 November 2013, 08:06:13 AM
IABSM, when I first 'got it'. played it lots :)
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on 20 November 2013, 08:27:15 AM
Force on Force,because of its very streamlined Gameplay,although a bit abstract it allows very dramatic Firefights  :)
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Geudens on 20 November 2013, 08:33:51 AM
After 40 years of wargaming (from 1 page rules to 10 cm thick books...): SAGA!
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: maxxon on 20 November 2013, 08:57:25 AM
Crossfire. It's still totally unique in the purity of its vision, though some other games have borrowed elements from it.

Which is a bit strange because I never really liked any of Arty's other rulesets.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: H.M.Stanley on 20 November 2013, 09:24:11 AM
None really although i like many: S&tF, DitDC, BP/HC ...

I have come to the conclusion that its not what you game its who you play with ... ;)
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: YPU on 20 November 2013, 09:26:27 AM
Coming from warhammer mainly, Dirtside II really woke me up to better systems.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Dr. Zombie on 20 November 2013, 09:27:26 AM
I have come to the conclusion that its not what you game its who you play with ... ;)

This.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: WillieB on 20 November 2013, 10:20:47 AM
Until a few years ago I felt that (even if considered an unfinished product) nothing could beat Stargrunt II.
Then IABSM came along and  took over.
However, I still was looking for a more 'modern' set of rules as well and found what I needed ( and more) with Tomorrow's War.
SAGA filled my 'ancient' niche and I still play it regularly.
But then Dux Brittaniarum was published and I forgot everything else. Yes, there are a few gaps in the rules that you have to fill in yourself, but in all it's just the best ruleset I ever played. Obviously I'm not alone in thinking so since we have been running a multiplayer campaign for a solid 53 weeks now.
And now Chain Of Command is edging in and all my SCW and WW II troops are becoming restless again...
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Remgain on 20 November 2013, 10:56:15 AM
Chain of Command.

Marco
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Stavros Banjo on 20 November 2013, 11:28:07 AM
Not wishing to appear like a miserable old moaner but it would be nice if people could refrain from using acronyms & abbreviations when discussing rules. I'm still looking for that 'mind blowing' set but it's a bit of a pain trying to work out what the heck 'IABSM' etc. is in the first place  ::)
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Conquistador on 20 November 2013, 12:02:07 PM
Not wishing to appear like a miserable old moaner but it would be nice if people could refrain from using acronyms & abbreviations when discussing rules. I'm still looking for that 'mind blowing' set but it's a bit of a pain trying to work out what the heck 'IABSM' etc. is in the first place  ::)

Roger that!

Gracias,

Glenn
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Bergil on 20 November 2013, 12:06:55 PM
Full Thrust, version 2. space combat!

Easy system once you've played a few turns. Easy enough to use ship creation system and a very malleable ruleset for making your own settings, rules, etc.

Can't recommend it enough.  :-*
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Dr. Zombie on 20 November 2013, 12:17:58 PM
Rules that I really enjoy are: Fast Play Grande Armee, Saga, Gloire.

And as dark horses I also really enjoy Epic Armageddon and Warmaster.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Vermis on 20 November 2013, 01:25:30 PM
It certainly didn't stop me playing anything else, but Epic: Armageddon showed me the world didn't have to be 40K.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: redzed on 20 November 2013, 01:58:39 PM
Not wishing to appear like a miserable old moaner but it would be nice if people could refrain from using acronyms & abbreviations when discussing rules. I'm still looking for that 'mind blowing' set but it's a bit of a pain trying to work out what the heck 'IABSM' etc. is in the first place  ::)
;)  I Aint Been Shot Mum by The Too Fat Lardies.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Conquistador on 20 November 2013, 02:13:04 PM
Just a thought tonight: is there a set of rules that has thoroughly blown your mind? Something so innovative and unique, you just stopped playing anything else?

Could be any period, any scale - any set of rules.

What did it and why?

Permanently?  No.

Games that have dominated my playing for periods of time?

Yes:

Air War C21 - Love aircraft, got the feel of 3D without all the crappy fiddly bits.

Dirtside II - the interaction of the weapons systems and designing battle forces to philosophy/theme

OD&D - FRPG back in the the days of innocence over libraries of books

Currently the THW (Two Hour Wargames, see it is easy to introduce acronyms) suite of games, especially the latest ones.

Gracias,

Glenn


Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Conquistador on 20 November 2013, 02:14:10 PM
<snip>
I have come to the conclusion that its not what you game its who you play with ... ;)

Ultimately it always comes down to this...

Gracias,

Glenn
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Mr. Peabody on 20 November 2013, 03:56:35 PM
Chain of Command and Savage Worlds; two games that have really impressed me with their design, mechanics and playability.

I was tempted to start listing my favourite games... But reason prevails. ::)
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: YPU on 20 November 2013, 05:04:36 PM
RPG wise, FATE really has my heart and its one of those systems that transfers so well to all genres and settings. Actually the current edition has a few pages on using the system for wargamming quick loosely with the rules and it looks pretty interesting.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: grant on 20 November 2013, 05:18:31 PM
A few common themes!

For me it is Wings of War/Glory. :)

Nothing has been that exciting for me before or after. Still looking for a game that does it simply and with flair for WW2 especially. Bolt Action is good, Flames of War was just OK. Warhammer ... great when I started, hated it at the end.

It's also so true that who you game with is just as important. !!
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Diakon on 20 November 2013, 05:44:01 PM
I have come to the conclusion that its not what you game its who you play with ... ;)

This is the most important point by a long way. For example, I am fed up with WH40k (due to bad/lazy design, boring IGOUGO etc. etc.) but I still play it because some friends do. If I didn't play it I wouldn't have many people to play against. Despite this, there are a couple of my opponents who I always have a blast playing with. Even 40k.  :D (As a compromise I got them to play a game of IHMN and they really enjoyed it and want to play it again)
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: H.M.Stanley on 20 November 2013, 05:56:19 PM
I keep hearing good things about Chain of Command.

I'll have to give them a look as my crowd have gone right off you-know-what
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: shadowking1957 on 20 November 2013, 06:44:59 PM
FOW works but id say IHMN is one game i really do enjoy alot and its fun
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on 20 November 2013, 08:36:59 PM
Having never played wargames before, Warhammer Fantasy (6th installment) "blew my mind". Colourful high-fantasy background, nicely detailed rules for massed battles. Would still love to play it but lost opponents to the several updates since then.

Next were the Rattrap systems (Gloire in particular) which enabled us to play all those cinematic actions from our favourite books, movies or TV series. The hyper-detailed RPG elements were new to me and have never failed to deliver an exciting narrative. Still playing, still enjoying.

Too Fat Lardies were the last to "blow my mind". Never fully got to grips with their rules - until I played my first game. It's a bit of an exercise (for me) but that's mainly due to TFL's different approach to wargaming. Chain of Command is said to be their best game yet - tried it but, to be honest, Sharp Practice still got to be my favourite.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: discok3 on 20 November 2013, 09:29:02 PM
As has been said the IGOUGO system is on the wane and I for one can and do rejoice in beautiful skirmish gems like Freebooters Fate and Dead Mans Hand,both of which allow plenty of variety in alternation and a ton of laughs thrown in.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: robh on 20 November 2013, 09:52:02 PM
Impetvs; best thing to have happened for Anc/Med/Ren and Fantasy big battle wargaming. Great game mechanics, is fun and with the diorama basing looks superb.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: pauld on 20 November 2013, 11:13:26 PM
Pulp Alley for me

... it's small scale and wraps a lot of things up into a small package and made painting enjoyable again rather than a chore ( no "What, only 130 more men to finish before I can play the game" or "I will play this game one day when I get everything painted")

and I have only played 3 games so far but Chain of Command has enthused me too

both have what I consider to be fresh mechanics - simple but challenging and more importantly fun
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: FramFramson on 21 November 2013, 12:28:50 AM
Pulp Alley here too. Simple, low requirements (as few as 3 figures!), extremely easy to learn, fast placed, plenty of depth and looks to be loads of fun.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Irishrover13 on 21 November 2013, 04:18:27 AM
I like games with few figures and a system that allows you to build you own leagues, forces what have you. If I can play it using plastic figures I got at the dollar store I am sold as such I put forward these three games.

Pulp Ally, great game few, few figures needed, make your own groups and the creators are good people. I love being able to chat directly with a games designer.

In Her Majesties Name: I am really loving this rule set as well. Once again few figures as few as 5 to as many as 20, make your own leagues and it is set in 1895 one of my favorite time periods. Craig is a a great guy and he really works hard to make his supports part of the game, several times now he has helped me to build leagues or provided me with lists and such for league building.

Smooth and Rifled: This is a quite game that allows you to play in the age of black powder at the skirmish level. I like this one because it really captures the feel of small unit actions from the 1600-1900 roughly and the author sells the basic rules but has provided dozens of free supplements ranging from the Napoleonic wars to the the Italian invasion of Sicily to the ACW. Easy to learn I taught grade seven students to play and can be played with 15mm figures for quick and cheap gaming.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Slayer on 21 November 2013, 04:35:01 AM
Mantics Kings of War for me and also for moderns, Skirmish Sangin
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: FramFramson on 21 November 2013, 06:28:15 AM
Also, any set of rules automatically gets a point from me if they don't care whose miniatures you use.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: joroas on 21 November 2013, 07:02:36 AM
Pulp Alley and Astounding Tales. Two very versatile sets of rules.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Arteis on 21 November 2013, 07:33:38 AM
'Piquet' did it for me several years ago.  Once I played these rules, I thought I could never go back to a standard IGOUGO game again (though eventually I did).  

Since then I've also found 'Black Powder' and 'Sharp Practice' equally mind-blowing.  

I've dallied with lots of other rules over the years, but the above three are the ones I remember most as spinning my wheels at the time.  

Despite the fact that I haven't played 'Piquet' for years now, it is still the one I remember as making the biggest impression on me when I first experienced them.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: H.M.Stanley on 21 November 2013, 08:47:08 AM
Actually, i would agree that Pulp Alley is a ruleset that has really inspired me. You can use it for almost any period and only need a few figures
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Schogun on 21 November 2013, 01:07:46 PM
Years I was floored by Rezolution, a sci-fi-game. It was very playable and strategic with a lot of new concepts. Included hacking, too.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Lowtardog on 21 November 2013, 01:50:00 PM
This Quars War, innovative mechanisms in it captures the feel of the miniatures and their world

Muskets and Tomahawks and This very ground, nice sets of rules again capture the period exactly for me and I have used TVG for other forest type games

LOTR highly versatile set fo rules mechanisms which are quickly picked up and run with
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Henry Lauder on 21 November 2013, 01:50:21 PM
Another vote for Pulp Alley - it's a set of rules that seems to broaden your gaming horizons rather than limit them.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Papa Spanky on 21 November 2013, 02:23:05 PM
Im really liking Pulp Alley for all the previous mentioned reasons also.
Akulas zombie rules- done on one sheet and they work great.
Two Hour Wargames- adaptable across many genres and you can use whatever models you have.
Now this last one- Car Wars. I know, it was a heavy ponderous ruleset that that detailed out darn near everything, but thats what was so great about it. The vehicle physics are awesome, and it taught me alot about geometry, facings of models, math, (lots of math) ect. but it is a time/ table hog.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Scorpio on 21 November 2013, 02:51:20 PM
In Her Majesty's Name: as others have noted, they give you all the tools you need to put together the force you want to use. The turn sequence has a great flow to it, and gives your choices on your activation a different tactical bent. Reads clean, plays smoothly, and the book is positively a dream. There's a reason this game has taken off so quickly.

7tv: great setting with a bunch of rules that really bring it to life, between the event cards you get to play, the audience participation rolls, and even in creating your list. Much like IHMN, you can build your force out of whatever figs you want and have their theme really work with the game. The activation rules take some getting used to, but once you're there, it lets your heroes shine in a uniquely elegant fashion. All that plus the toolkits for running narrative scenarios and settings (again, much like IHMN.)
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: pistolpete on 21 November 2013, 03:34:49 PM
i prefer small forces/skirmish games that don't take a long time to play (less than 2 hrs), easy to understand but have tactical challenges too, not figure specific, offer scenarios and/or goals (other than kill them all), handles multiple players without complication, understood by kids, lots of options without additional add-ons/codex/expansions, affordable.

check your 6! - great aerial combat game; it does rely on charts, but pilot skill has more impact on success.  it is scenario driven so if you want to recreate historical dog fights - this is the game.

force on Force is good for modern skirmishing, it abstracts a lot of the weapons so IMHO that's a plus. i also like the reaction mechanics and offsetting dice so nobody's just waiting.

The Rules with No Name for cowboys have a card driven initiative, quick, very action/not historical so fun for kids, and it's free!

Pulp Alley - my favorite of the list by far; i'll run out of room to say everything i like and it would just repeat what's been said by others already.  it's the only game i'm willing to play now.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: magokiron on 22 November 2013, 06:32:28 PM
I played GW games for untold years, and thought "points" was the ONLY way to balance a wargame.

But after almost 25 years of playing wargames, I found that today most rulesets I like and PLAY uses NO POINTS.

PULP ALLEY is at the top of my list. A lot of people has already said good things about it, but I'll insist, the game is REALLY balanced, fast, fun, versatile, and we have played the PULP ALLEY version of Mordheim, Necromunda, Fantasy, SuperHeroes, Old West, VSF, etc.  The system certainly can be adapted to pretty much any setting with MINOR (mostly cosmetic) changes, and has always been fun.  And several of the games we have played, are won/lost with the LAST die roll of the LAST turn. Oh, and has anybody mentioned they are VERY AFFORDABLE? (and there's even a free "start" version for everyone to try). Higly reccommended.

AKULA's TOTAL A.R.S.E. ZOMBIE RULES are other of my pretty favorites.  Simple, Fast, FREE (but Akula ask you to make a donation for a good cause), the rules engine takes care of the zombies, and with just a little thinking, the rules are infinitely expandable to accomodate every zombie kind you can imagine from your favorite movie, novel, videogame, whatever.

FOR A FISTFUL OF LEAD is a cheap, but well thougt set of rules that encourages ACTION, and the rules are simple to grasp and very well set the mood for an Old West shootout. And close combat is brutal.

ANY OF HOWARD WHITEHOUSE RULES. Chainmail Bikinis, Astounding Tales, Robin Hood simple Rules, you name it. The man is a GENIUS, and his rulesets usually are simple, fast, fun, fun, and fun.

For Fantasy massive battles, after 20 years of playing GW Warhammer (Meh), I discovered ARMIES OF ARCANA and NEVER looked back. The system is WELL BALANCED and the rulebook has EVERYTHING, including 12+ Army Lists, 10+ Magic Lores, like 100+ Monsters, and a CREATURE CREATION FORMULA that REALLY WORKS. With ARMIES OF ARCANA I learnt that we can play a complete fantasy massive game without spending half and hour EVERY TURN arguing about some rules interpretation.

That's it for now. Hope to hear some more opinions.

Best wishes.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Donpimpom on 22 November 2013, 08:53:22 PM
My inner conspiracy theorist fears that enthusiasm with Pulp alley.
Maybe I'm missing something really cool?
Maybe if I try it will became a Pulp Alley cultist too?
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Elk101 on 22 November 2013, 10:03:59 PM
Recently, it would be Pulp (join us Donpimpon, join us) Alley, as it provides a very fluid, narrative driven game. I'd also say it was frustration free.

I do like the sound of Chain of Command.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: has.been on 22 November 2013, 10:43:11 PM
Firstly I must agree with H.M.Stanley, the most important thing is WHO you play with. That said two mind blowing sets do leap to mind:-
Wild west skirmish rules (by Kid Caldwell, Botch Blake & long haired Steve Curis) You could start to play with as little as one figure per player, and relive all those old westerns;
AK47 (by Peter Pig) a force is about 40 inf & a few vehicles, all in cheap 15mm. Simple rules with lots of 'chrome' such as a quick 'political' pre-game and a post-battle 'spin' dice off. A count down system that means the game could finish next move or in six moves. This stops the 'it is the last move I will attack with everything' All in all a fun game that is simple, quick & does not need a hugh expense.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Craig on 23 November 2013, 12:27:13 AM
De Bellis Anquitatis (DBA), as it wrung the neck of all the bloated and increasingly complicated rule sets then on the market. The actual rules were just half a dozen pages and you could learn them in the course of a single game, yet take forever to master them.

They set me writing my own rules, always with an eye to simplicity in design. So, Phil Barker, I take my hat off to you!
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: grant on 23 November 2013, 12:34:35 AM
De Bellis Anquitatis (DBA), as it wrung the neck of all the bloated and increasingly complicated rule sets then on the market. The actual rules were just half a dozen pages and you could learn them in the course of a single game, yet take forever to master them.

They set me writing my own rules, always with an eye to simplicity in design. So, Phil Barker, I take my hat off to you!

I'll throw a vote in for DBA as well! It was so refreshing after GW to find those. 12 elements, all the time? A 2x2 board? Fantastic!
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Pijlie on 23 November 2013, 07:46:37 AM
A few rulesets have done that in the years past.

GASLIGHT made a big impression for its simplicity and versatility. There was a complete world hidden in that little first booklet.

BlackPowder because of its ability to facilitate huge battles in multiple (sub)periods that play with surprising ease and speed and a real Horse & Musket athmosphere.

Tomorrow's War for its elegance and incredible realistic "feel" with a minimum of complexity.

Witchfinder General because it is a very good and uncomplicated ECW skirmish set with a unique blend of history and folklore that struck my creative nerve in a big way. I immediately fell in love with that set. I painted figures for it before I had even bought it.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Elk101 on 23 November 2013, 08:01:22 AM
Although it's still in its Beta phase I'd also have to say Scavenge Skirmish Survive for the totally different gameplay experience on offer.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Mr. Peabody on 23 November 2013, 04:57:17 PM
I didn't want to make a list of favourite games, so left off two titles that I enjoy playing a lot simply because I do play them often.

Kicking myself quite a bit for not adding Strange Aeons to my first post...  >:(
Strange Aeons offers clever mechanics and a fun narrative campaign to deliver a great Mythos themed game.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Mindenbrush on 23 November 2013, 08:10:56 PM
Age of Reason by Tod Kershner & Dale Woods.

Played it for the first time at Historicon 1991, introduced it to fellow gamers in Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto and it has been the go to set of rules for SYW.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Doomsdave on 24 November 2013, 01:46:27 AM
Looks like I HAVE to get pulp alley. Too many thumbs up.

Me too.  Apparently I'm also going to have to jump on the 7TV bus as well.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: aggro84 on 24 November 2013, 03:52:05 AM
I too was extremely impressed by Pulp Alley.
The rules work well for multiple genres as well.
Pretty much any "shooty" genre from VSF to Sci-Fi.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Sinewgrab on 24 November 2013, 04:54:56 PM
The first one to blow my mind was, honestly, now a total clunker.  Chaos Wars, by Ral Partha.  Without that, I would never have started collecting miniatures at all.  I bought that, 2 Warhammer Fantasy Army boxes (the one with 10 each of 6 races), and never looked back.

More recently?  FUBAR ruined me for 40k - make your own units and adjust battles by feel with intelligent people instead of a complex points system?  2 page ruleset?  BRILLIANT!

And Pulp Alley has dragged me into its grasp - the system is elegant and so flexible across genres.  It replaced Wierd Krieg, Mordheim, and .45 Adventure in one fell swoop.

But I still play a lot of WH Fantasy, because all of my friends do.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: freewargamesrules on 24 November 2013, 09:19:14 PM
The only one to blow my mind was Crossfire. Did away with turns and fixed movement distances. You had to seize the initiative. Nothing within the hobby has been as revolutionary (though many claim to be and aren't).
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: nic-e on 24 November 2013, 09:30:14 PM
Honestly warpath 2.0 is a ruleset i can't sing enough praises for :) its just so fun and simple :D

(of course the best ruleset is relic war, but since i haven't finished writing it yet you fellows are excused for not knowing that.  ;) )
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: lethallee61 on 24 November 2013, 10:38:17 PM
In 1977 a friend introduced me to a new game called "Dungeons and Dragons".

I was still playing regularly more than 20 years later. In my experience, a good Dungeon Master can take you where no other game can.

Have never been so affected by any other game since.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: grant on 25 November 2013, 12:29:40 AM
In 1977 a friend introduced me to a new game called "Dungeons and Dragons".

I was still playing regularly more than 20 years later. In my experience, a good Dungeon Master can take you where no other game can.

Have never been so affected by any other game since.

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=60510.0
 ;)
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: lethallee61 on 25 November 2013, 04:48:22 AM
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=60510.0
 ;)

 :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Gotta love nostalgia.

Yep - still have my white box set and a few of the others you pictured as well. I still have the self-drawn floor plans for the very first dungeon we explored in my first ever game of D&D.

One of my greatest joys was being published once in "Dragon" and twice in "Dungeon" magazine in the early 90s.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: joroas on 25 November 2013, 01:46:48 PM
Quote
And Pulp Alley has dragged me into its grasp - the system is elegant and so flexible across genres.  It replaced Wierd Krieg, Mordheim, and .45 Adventure in one fell swoop.

I never thought of these for Mordheim/Necromunda.....  but makes sense.... :o
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: joroas on 25 November 2013, 01:47:49 PM
Quote
Gotta love nostalgia.

Nostalgia used to be better..... lol
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Too Bo Coo on 25 November 2013, 01:59:45 PM
There are a handful of systems that have 'blown my mind'

AD&D, it was love at first sight.  We've been together for 30 years now.

Car Wars, not for merely opening up the genre, but proving that even a great idea can be munchkined (intended) to disaster...

The Crooked Dice Action System, a modern way to game where the rule set is clean, fun and adaptable.

Two Hour Wargames, The system Ed came up with is really nice for solo gaming, which is sometimes the fate of us gamers... Ed makes it not merely 'doable', but lots of fun.

Each of these systems, 3 for good, one not so much, was and is distinct and in many ways genre setting.  I have all 4, but only would be interested in playing 1, 3 and 4... 
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Scaramanga on 25 November 2013, 11:46:48 PM
Pulp alley is really impressive, a fantastic set of rules.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: sasori on 26 November 2013, 04:37:11 AM
Hands down its gotta be INFINITY. Never before in my 30+ plus years of gamin' have I found myself using more real world tactics in a game, not because of restrictions in the rules but because the tactics work. I remember defeating a previously undefeated opponent, he asked why I played the way I did and I explained I had just finished reading the Osprey book on World War II Infantry Tactics at the squad level and applied what I learned. The rules can be a tough "cold read" and really benefit from an experienced teacher, but once you grasp the core mechanic, variable target number and ARO, it is the most logical game I've played. The fact that its fast paced and fun with no down time for either player makes it my favorite of all time.

Beautiful miniatures and a skirmish level high-tech Sci-Fi setting is just bacon on the cake, 'cause you know everything is better with bacon.  :P
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: jp1885 on 26 November 2013, 10:28:26 AM
Currently liking Chain of Command and also Brink of Battle - basically anything with 'of' in the middle  :D
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Conquistador on 26 November 2013, 12:21:23 PM
I might just add an observation here.

Gamers seem to care least about a rules set with a system.

How many times have you heard "I don't care about the rules, I just want the figures!" <snip>

Generic rules aside because they are a different beast, Rules should make the tropes for that genre happen on the board in a way that mimics the background material. Nothing more, nothing less.



Poster: How many times have you heard "I don't care about the rules, I just want the figures!"

Hopefully never from my lips!

Guess I am acting third sigma here... like that is a shock.

I want figures that I can game with that seem to fit the historical or cultural (SF/Fantasy/VSF) realities they supposedly represent.

Historical rules should reward historical play (those tactics were practiced/used for a reason - they worked given the technology of the time,) by design of the game process  8)  and Science Fiction/VSF/Fantasy/Other rules should accurately reflect their historical counterparts where possible (lots of low level mages using "magic missiles" like spells make blocks of pikemen costly) given the background while introducing the cultural aspects (animosity of Dwarf/Goblin , etc., where present reflect history's "national rivalries" (or worse) aspect of human nature.)

IMNSHO Magic is a form of technology and lots of low level mages using multiple shot spells are not unlike introducing automatic weapons and "Fireballs/Lightning Bolts/Cone of Freezing" are simply introducing artillery in effect.  Psionic game affects and other of that ilk also.

Gracias,

Glenn
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Too Bo Coo on 26 November 2013, 12:29:40 PM
Poster: How many times have you heard "I don't care about the rules, I just want the figures!"

Hopefully never from my lips!

Guess I am acting third sigma here... like that is a shock.

I want figures that I can game with that seem to fit the historical or cultural (SF/Fantasy/VSF) realities they supposedly represent.

Historical rules should reward historical play (those tactics were practiced/used for a reason - they worked given the technology of the time,) by design of the game process  8)  and Science Fiction/VSF/Fantasy/Other rules should accurately reflect their historical counterparts where possible (lots of low level mages using "magic missiles" like spells make blocks of pikemen costly) given the background while introducing the cultural aspects (animosity of Dwarf/Goblin , etc., where present reflect history's "national rivalries" (or worse) aspect of human nature.)

IMNSHO Magic is a form of technology and lots of low level mages using multiple shot spells are not unlike introducing automatic weapons and "Fireballs/Lightning Bolts/Cone of Freezing" are simply introducing artillery in effect.  Psionic game affects and other of that ilk also.

Gracias,

Glenn


I've never used figures for AD&D, if it werent for the ruleset, I wouldnt play the game.  I agree with Glenn, the rules rule.  That's part of the reason Road Kill was a two-time flop.  The guy tried to sell components for a game that really didnt seem to exist out of a beta plan, so the Market of Gamers turned their nose up and walked away.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Conquistador on 26 November 2013, 02:15:39 PM
Glenn will be a bust on this as I actually dont think he has any GW figs.

<snip>

Actually I do have some GW figures.   :o  :o  :o  :o  :o

When I started Spain on Venus VSF army building it was pointed out to me how cheap Ebay carried the GW Lizardmen.  I now have a KR Multicase full of the brutal foes of "civilization" on Venus!

But again, it was an army for a setting (which may drive my rules decisions that drive my figure buying.)
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Too Bo Coo on 26 November 2013, 02:18:13 PM
Also TBC was it not a case of also in that KS the cars were the wrong size, overpriced for what you got, the game maker was rude and stupid and the 'fans' were as much fun as feeding yourself feet first through a chipper chopper. The shitty rules were just the ice on the cake.

To be fair, the minis were not crap, and they could have been reduced in price simply by eliminating the pointless 'clamshell' and customizable design points and just make them one piece parts, perhaps in several styles.   

His attitude, I can say from first hand experience, sucked.

But here is the thing, even if he had a better set of minis, was a great fella, he still had no game to speak of.  So while I think there are temporary manias (Zombicide, Sedition Wars, Mars Attacks and AVP) what we can see is that in each succession of offerings, the consumer is demanding to know more up front.  In fact, it's why the Road Kill guy got upset with me.  I read the feedback from Sedition Wars and applied the lesson to Road Kill, and it failed.  One of the main things I was personally concerned with was the rules, sadly the creator got so upset over the basic questions, I never got that far.

That's why tabletop gaming is so great, you're not married a set of game components to a bad ruleset.  If the rules you play with go stale, there is likely another out there covering the period which is if not better, is new.  Generally with little changeover.

I'm definitely of the opinion that rules matter a good deal.  Some games are beautiful and deep, but unplayable.
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Conquistador on 26 November 2013, 02:19:10 PM
<snip>
You want good rules for your game sure. But you buy many figures sans rules.

<snip>


Good point.  I have bought armies for a setting while looking fir the "right" rules.  The setting (for me) determines the looks of the figures and the rules for the games.

Reality (and changing views on what war games bring to my life) does affect the rules selection, that is why I find myself turning more and more to Two Hour Wargames rules.

Gracias,

Glenn
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Too Bo Coo on 26 November 2013, 02:20:52 PM
Good point.  I have bought armies for a setting while looking fir the "right" rules.  The setting (for me) determines the looks of the figures and the rules for the games.

Reality (and changing views on what war games bring to my life) does affect the rules selection, that is why I find myself turning more and more to Two Hour Wargames rules.

Gracias,

Glenn


That's why I included THW on my list, they really are quite novel and flexible. 
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: Conquistador on 26 November 2013, 06:34:14 PM
Dont get me wrong TBC I agree 110% the rules are a vital part of the overall package.

Busy with statistical work right now, (processing much faster today for some reason so less time spent waiting/looking at LAF,) but now I want to sit down and decide, for the eras/genres I play, what was the balance between rules, settings, and (in a few cases) the figures themselves that led me to be involved in each of the eras/genres.

Gracias,

Glenn
Title: Re: What set of rules has really blown your mind?
Post by: LawnRanger on 26 November 2013, 08:47:15 PM
I must say that Fields Of Glory (FOG) set of rules has gone down very well at my club

In fact I don't see any other set of rules used for  ancients /med and renaissance periods in are club now so I think that its has had a big impact at are club .. when you see 20 or so people using the same set of rules at are club on a Saturday they  must have got something right  :)

Oh I do think that British Grenadier(AWI /1812)  is a great set of rules SHAME they cocked up the deluxe version of the rules but that's another story .

happy gaming LR.