Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: YPU on 02 December 2013, 03:11:15 PM
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I have been tinkering away at a skirmish wizard gang warfare rule-set for a while, think mordheim in hogwards. Nothing big and I doubt it will ever see the light of day beyond a free download it at all but its entertaining to have my mind mill on on slow days.
Anyhow, I want the spells to be interesting and quirky rather then generic. I rather every spell to have interesting effects and side effects rather then by a list of generic effects.
So, I put this question to the fine gentlemen of LAF, what interesting spell effects can you name or come up with?
For instance, some of you might be familiar with the children's board game "The aMAZEing Labyrinth" which allows you to change the layout of the board in interesting ways. This would make for an interesting spell or even entire school of magic! The changing layout of the castle is a staple of the harry potter mythos and would fit in perfectly in my game. I still need to think of a good name for this branch of magic tough, castelomancy just doesn't sound arcane enough. :P
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Illusionists, I think, would be an interesting area to delve into. I'm working on an illusionist as a Mordheim hired sword.
You can have spells about spooky mists, body doubles, confusion. And my personal favorite, convincing the enemy they are covered with bees.
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Aye the field of illusions is bursting with interesting effects indeed, I hadn't considered the covered in creepy crawly stingy things options yet. Good one!
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What about something based on manipulating and controlling the 4 elements?
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Another thing to consider...the ability to combine spells (which should be difficult but the end results could be spectacular). This would, however, complicate everything! lol
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This is an interesting thread. I have often thought that magic in games is relegated to an exciting sounding missile weapon of various colours. For those of us who don't mind a bit of book keeping, I think magic has great potential for things like temporary stat changes, equipment destruction, that kind of thing. Summoning is another one that should get used more. Even if a wizard just quickly summons a little imp to keep an enemy busy, it would give him time to shoot the crossbow for a bit longer...
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For further info, this might well become the game I start bringing to cons where such things are normal.
Hobbit, those are, naturally, already in the list. However I am fishing for things beyond fireballs and walls of earth/fire/ice. See the power to create ice sheets for enemies to slip on, now that is a far more interesting power then any of the above.
Elbows, indeed the combining of spells would give that wacky flavour I am looking for. And like you mention it might just end up becoming far to complicated but its worth looking in to. Mayhaps I should give every spell a 'component" section describing what it does when used in a combo spell... ideas indeed! I had at first thought about having a more free form spell creation system but I realized that this would in fact end with most players just doing boom spells and a few simple buffs. I want every spell to have a bit of flavour, more effect then just damage, that's what the normal weapons would be for. However if the combination system were transplant that flavourful part over more so then the straight up damage part, we might get cooking...
Gibby, glad you think so! I completely agree as well, many a game, especially the more generic ones tend to have blasty magic, defensive magic if your lucky and necromancy because its cool and that's it.
I plan to give every model a stat card the way you see in many a skirmish game these days. (it helps with the model for model activation) So the book keeping is accounted for. Stuff like potential equipment destruction or at least disarmament becomes very potent once a campaign system is introduced!
Summoning, naturally! Also bound critters as I find there should be a difference. You mind control a troll to your side and train it, but you summon an imp for a few seconds head start like you say. Actually I was thinking mostly large summons before so thanks for the throwaway idea, hadn't really considered that. The variety of monsters available and variations thereupon might fill a large part of the rules. (or perhaps become a sepperate set of advance rules) At first I was considering a completely free from building system, but like above many players tend to go for boring straight up bruisers rather then flavourful with those. For now I am thinking stereotypes with options The Brute type might have an option for horns to become a minotaur, regeneration for trolls and a without it might serve as a orge, for instance. Still early days on that, I want to hammer out the general magic first before I start on the more specialized branches!
Actually I have some very rough draft idea's kicking around on the "factions" and variations off those that could be played, I could do a short write-up on that if anybody is interested? (queue crickets and tumble-weed)
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Transmogrification spells with unpredictable effects.
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YPU, castlemancy would not cut it for me either. The idea is interesting, how 'bout using architect as a root word? Archimancer, Archimancy, Archimorphing, Archimorphos? In the cartoon Full Metal Alchemist there is some interesting variations on this idea too, changing rooms around, walls popping up, etc. I have always had a small fascination with 'word of power' and how they work in magic, arcane or divine.
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YPU, castlemancy would not cut it for me either. The idea is interesting, how 'bout using architect as a root word? Archimancer, Archimancy, Archimorphing, Archimorphos? In the cartoon Full Metal Alchemist there is some interesting variations on this idea too, changing rooms around, walls popping up, etc. I have always had a small fascination with 'word of power' and how they work in magic, arcane or divine.
Full Metal Alchemist is a good example of what I am aiming for, nearly every attack is flavourful and has the side effect of permanently changing the battlefield.
Right now I am toying with the name: Moliomancy using the latin for "to build" as a root word. It sounds nice tough to me at least it isn't particularly indicative of its function. Necromancy and pyromancy are clear in what they are about moliomancy not so much. It does roll of the tongue nicely for me at least, (but I am dutch so wondering now native English speakers feel about that)
Words of power, you know I like the idea of power in words, and true names and the like but a word of power has a very clear function. Power word stun or kill does one thing and has no flavourful side effects like I talked about. Maybe if they need to be written down or something, or having some other interesting game mechanic that makes sense...
To give another example. In the HP games the spell "flipendo" is used all the time. Its a basic blast attack that knocks the opponent back. By having that as your standard low level attack power even basic "grunts" (junior students more likely) have an interesting battlefield influence as they shift the enemy around with their one spell. Potentially creating unexpected situations which ad that flavour I was talking about. In many a game which has knockback rules have I found that that few inches were exactly enough to prevent, or even help a model from reaching his intended target this turn. A lowly junior student knocking the big bad necromancer away from that artifact of power at the last moment with a measly low level spell and saving the day, now that's the kind of game I would be taking about for a while!
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Hi, sorry I was in a real hurry hence my one line offering. I was thinking of something along the lines of using two part descriptors as per the Ars Magica system - ie an element and an effect (and, of course, players are required to call these out and get bonuses for being over dramatic).
Elements being opposite to one another being used to cancel each other out and, exactly as you suggested, things like ice sheets to make opponents slip, perhaps you could use ice to create a temporary bridge, manipulating earth to create a pillar to stand on and give an elevated position, shift earth to undermine a building.
In a similar way perhaps you could use the 4 humours or temperaments (sanguines, choleric, melancolic and phlegmatic)to effect people (perhaps these could also be used to help define characters). And then add in a touch of alchemy and the suppossed magical properties of various spices...
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A few ideas for random spells:
Horrific Stench – makes one object (or person) emit the most horrendous stench imaginable. Cast on a rock, and throw it at the enemy
Unbuckle – it’s hard for a knight to charge you when all the fastenings on his suit of armour suddenly come undone
Object of Desire – make someone fall madly in love (or lust) with an intimate object
Badger Confusion – Makes the target think they are a badger
Larger then Life – makes someone think they are gigantic in size, they are not they just think they are
10 tons – makes something weigh 10 tons, cast on someone’s hat for hilarious results
Barbed tentacles of forced intrusion – you don’t want to know
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Maybe you should watch a bit of Fairy Tail, Japanese anime series about a wizards guild,
the series is full of wizards, each with their own type of magic, and would be a perfect starting point.
It also happens to be my favourite anime series, and while it's currently on hiatus because the anime was catching up with the manga,
there's plenty of episode already. the last story arc is especially interesting as it involves a sort of wizard competition with each guild fighting to be crowned the top guild.
so there's plenty of differnt wizards with a wide range of magic types
Anywho it's a great show, and even if you don't have time to watch some episodes, visit the fairy tail wiki and check out some of the characters, there's usually a nice description of their magic and spells:
http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Fairy_Tail_(Guild)
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Good Topic.
I just posted my first draft of a magic system for use with fantasy skirmish or 15mm element unit army scale:
http://laughingferret.blogspot.com/2013/12/on-nature-of-natural-magic.html (http://laughingferret.blogspot.com/2013/12/on-nature-of-natural-magic.html)
But probably not what you're looking for: the magic system (I hope) is interesting for the background of the system and how spells are chosen & relate to each other, but the spells are intended to be pretty standard with small and obvious game effects, to keep the power low. So the standard expected effects are there, like small missile strikes, buffs & debuffs.
But for what you're looking for is more common in RPG gaming than minis wargaming. Wargames tend to rely on clear & expected results, but an RPG can get more creative because it has a moderator: the GM. If your minis games use a GM, someone running the game, some groups do this, then it would be easier to implement what you're after. If you don't, if just 2 people playing against each other, it could work but you'd need some system for determining what the spell effect is if the players disagree with the effect it would have. Comes down to the fact that there is no disputing what "12 inch range missile shot at strength 4" does, but wide open to what the game effects of "Bigby's Grasping Hand" might do.
To get the most interesting spell effects I think you need a GM or 2 players who are clearly playing in disinterested high fun spirit. That later should always be hoped for, but isn't always possible.
So for Interesting Spell Effects, what about something like 'Cantrip Wars' where you take the most powerful magical traditions and bring in the most small and basic applications of it.
For example:
Necromancy: One of the most powerful magics, but at a freshman level you can only control about one limb's worth of bone at a time. So you might animate a squirrel, or could control an opponent's arm or leg for a turn... make them move at half rate, drop a shield, swing their sword at their buddy standing next to them, turn their head, or yank their bow arm up when firing. What else could you do with it?
Summoner: Greater Demons, Djinn & Elementals are out of the question at an intro level, but doesn't mean you can't summon a hundred ants under the knight's armor. Or summon a bright light elemental to dance 3" infront of someone's face so they can't see anything, or summon a little water elemental to soak the powder of the guy with the musket...
Illusionist: Nothing fancy, but small effects are useful: the old 'he's not your friend, I'm your friend!' or make yourself look like a Troll to cause fear for a turn. what else?
Chronomancy: slow time so that you move faster... could be a lot of potential uses there.
looking through a D&D book might give more ideas.
I like the idea of using magic having an affect on the terrain or game environment.
Did you ever see the HBO series Carnival? One character could heal, but it meant an equal amount of death would be created.. so sucking life from one thing and pouring it into another. That could work for healing magic.. like restore a wound on one character but take it from another, or reduce 3 others by a point of vitality, or it dries out an area of forest you're in.. but if there is no forest, the grass field isn't enough so it is going to come from your other team members.
Or blame it on the faeries... every time someone casts a spell there is a good chance it interests the faeries and they do a random act: maybe good, probably not.. they may throw up brambles around someone, or make them drowsy, or the spell might cause something from their magical world to be revealed like a faerie circle that could have random effects on anyone in it or who walks into it.
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Aktr, some nice sugestions there. You put the finger on what I am talking about. You can have a confusion spell that makes people act random'ish. Or you can have a confusion spell that makes them act like a confused badger. Effect might be pretty much the same rules wise but the explanations for actions becomes a lot more amusing and flavourful. Its the pepper in the vanilla rules.
Mr tough guy, thanks for the suggestions, your not the first to recommend it to me but I gave it a pass till now, might have to change that!
Ferret, I am hoping on getting away without a GM, I just want my spells to be less bland in general. Spells will be the main focus of this game, since 80percent or so of the models should be wizards. Like I said, think harry potter gang war.
Like you point out low level spells should be interesting as well! You should have fun stories to tell about your games from the first skirmish to the last climactic battle of a campaign. High level spells should be alluring, but the low ones should still be fun.
As things stand I plan to have every model have a knowledge skill which determines the number of spells he can have. I'm thinking that most spells will have 3 levels to them. One that allows the spell to be cast once per game. One higher lever that allows them to be cast 3 times and one that allows infinite uses. I think that with the aforementioned stat card use keeping track by ticking of boxes should keep this manageable.
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Thanks YPU, I’m glad you like the suggestions
A few more ideas
Loosen Bowels - Embarrassing if you wearing a robe, horrendous if you in full plate
Lighter then Air – Does what it says on the tin
60 seconds left to live – makes the target think that they only have 60 seconds left to live
Singularity – cast on a point on the table, slowly draws everything towards it
Copycat – makes one model copy the exact actions of another
Out of sync – makes one model out of sync with the rest, might only work if you game works in phases (movement phase, missile or whatever) so the model would move when everyone else shots and shots when every one else is in close combat
Possessed Limb – gain control of one of you enemies limbs
Made of Glass – makes a person think they are made of glass
Swap Bodies – makes 2 people minds swap bodies
Bow before your god – makes someone thing what ever the spell is cast upon is there god
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IF you can stand wading through the verbiage there are some interesting ideas for spell effects in the Harry Potter books, less so in the movies. I was entertained by the movies but 3 and 1/2 books was my limit on reading them.
Value returned on effort may be subjective.
Gracias,
Glenn
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Aktr, more good suggestions there. :D Tough a few still miss that interesting extra spice.
Glenn, I read the books as a kid and really loved them, not sure I would still if I read them now. However, there are more then enough wiki´s online made by fans that list all the spells and the effects they had throughout the books. Might be more value for effort returned that way. ::)
While a lot of you are reading this, might as well ask for more specific suggestions. I like the idea of elemental magic even if just for the visuals of wizards clearly linked to an element. However especially with fire I could do with a few more interesting ideas.
A wall of fire is good enough in my opinion as it provides a hazard, which is more tactically interesting then a barrier in my opinion since it offers a gamble, move trough it and get damaged but get on with the show. (or knocking others trough it with another spell?)
You could do a carpet of fire, the fire version of sheets of ice making people dance like they are standing on hot cinders.
But what else? Fireball and stuff like that really isn't all that interesting. I guess a breath of fire spell would be a bit better as it uses a template and thus might hit allies as well as enemies in cramped quarters.
On a different note, I like the idea of wizards taking their time casting, chanting strange words and making occult gestures, so I am considering having an option to have a wizard "charge up" their spells by first spending a turn casting. This would however require many if not all spells to have an extra line or two with their charged up effect.
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In fairy tail, Natsu a wizard with Fire Dragon Slayer powers, has the abilty to become stronger and replenish his magic my consuming fire, you could use something like that as either an abilty or a even as a spell for elemental wizards, consume your element to gain bonuses.
Also there's always the enchanting weapons option so swords of fire or even fists or feet of fire.
But that raises the question if a fire wizard should be automatically immune to fire, TBH I dont neccesarily think that should be a given, although a dedicated fire mage would probably have plenty of spells to protect himself from fire, but should they be dispelled it could mean he's in trouble.